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Don Wilhelm

Re: AC Power for the Station

Bob and all,

Yes, those "backstab" receptacles that electricians love to use because
they are quick and easy do not have adequate contact stength and can
overheat and cause voltage drops and a fire hazard.

If I were to discover them in any house I occupied, I would pull the
wires out of the 'backstab' and put the wires under the screws. There
is nothing wrong with the receptacles, except for that marginal wire
contact in the 'backstab' contacts - change those to "under the screw"
connections and all will be well.
There are good 'strip and insert' receptacles use a clamping mechanism
tightened with a screw, and those do not have the problem.

My house is wired with #12 wire for ALL the receptacles, (lighting is
#14) but I do use the 15 amp receptacles with no problem (except in the
kitchen where they are 20 amp) - the 15 amp receptacles will not accept
#12 wire in the 'backstab' holes, so the only choice was to use the
screw terminals. I have 20 amp breakers on the receptacle circuits, but
15 amp on the lighting.
Yes, I did it myself and the inspector had no problem with my wiring.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/14/2018 9:07 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
> And in replacing receptacles, I found the original 1980 wiring in our
> house was done by the "strip and push-in" connections.   Many I found
> were loose, some showed signs of heating.   I took on the project to
> replace all of the receptacles and switches in the house.   In doing so,
> I did NOT use the push-in method, but turned a hook on the end of every
> wire and put it around the screw in the correct direction.
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Dean L

Re: power requirements for a K3S, KPA500, KAT500, P3?

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

It's a simple visit to ohms law.
OR
Just grab a "kill a watt" tester and look at your current draw.
With a quick "in the head math" the 15 amp breaker will be fine.

Remember the 30amp supply is at 13.8v not 117v ac the panel breaker is at.

Again

Ohms law.
BTW : glad you asked the question rather than change breaker size.
73
Dean

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018, 23:03 Michael Gillen via Elecraft <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Kind of a dumb question however here goes:
>
> I got my K3S a short while ago and now I want to add the KPA500 and KAT500
> to it however it just now occurred to me that I should check how much juice
> I need to power that thing!
>
> I’m currently using an Alinco DM-330MV which I believe puts out 30A
> continuous however its probably plugged into one the house 15A lines.
>
> So my questions are:
>
> 1) Will 15A house line supply enough juice for the K3S, KPA500, KAT500,
> and in the future a P3 Panadaper?
>
> 2) If not can I get away with replacing the breaker with a 20A breaker?
> 30A?
>
> 3) Will the Alinco be big enough or should I upgrade that as well?
>
>
> Thanks guys,
> Michael
>
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David Gilbert

Re: AC Power for the Station

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

Totally agree, Don. The receptacles you refer to are extremely secure
... even better than the ones where you have to wrap the wire around the
screw because if you aren't careful the wire can squeeze out from under
the screw (don't ask me how I know that). The ones you mention also
have the benefit of the wire entering the body from the back just like
the push wire version. They simply are tough to beat, and they are only
a couple of dollars more expensive than the really cheap ones.

73,
Dave AB7E

On 6/14/2018 1:43 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>
> There are good 'strip and insert' receptacles use a clamping mechanism
> tightened with a screw, and those do not have the problem.
>

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Ralph Parker-2

Re: AC Power for the Station

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

>those "backstab" receptacles that electricians love to use because
they are quick and easy do not have adequate contact stength and can
overheat and cause voltage drops and a fire hazard.

Here's a weird one:
Two years ago, I bought a house that had been built in 1980, by the
folks that I bought it from. No intermediate owners. Wired with copper
wire (not aluminum). I'm replacing many of the AC receptacles because
they are so loose that a plug falls right out of them. I've never seen
that before. My previous house was built in 1970, and never had that
receptacle problem, or in any other house I've ever lived in. Maybe a
bunch of cheapy ones?

VE7XF

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: AC Power for the Station

Administrator

In reply to this post by Rose

With that, lets end the thread.

73
Eric
/Moderator etc.
elecraft.com/

On 6/14/2018 11:30 AM, Rose wrote:

> Well said, Rick!
>
> 73!
>
> Ken - K0PP
>
> On Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 12:09 Rick WA6NHC <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> As a retired career firefighter (line Captain), I say:
>>
>> A POX on the push in connections.

Michael Eberle

Re: AC Power for the Station

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

I just bought the house I'm living in last year. While changing out
some of the receptacles and switches I discovered that they did not use
wire nuts for wire connections in the wall boxes. They had attempted to
solder the wires and wrapped them in tape. Most, if not all of them were
cold solder joints and several inches of the wire insulation had melted
during the heating process.

Apparently the codes are not as strict outside of the city limits.

Mike - KI0HA

On 6/14/2018 15:43, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Bob and all,
>
> Yes, those "backstab" receptacles that electricians love to use
> because they are quick and easy do not have adequate contact stength
> and can overheat and cause voltage drops and a fire hazard.
>
> If I were to discover them in any house I occupied, I would pull the
> wires out of the 'backstab' and put the wires under the screws. There
> is nothing wrong with the receptacles, except for that marginal wire
> contact in the 'backstab' contacts - change those to "under the screw"
> connections and all will be well.
> There are good 'strip and insert' receptacles use a clamping mechanism
> tightened with a screw, and those do not have the problem.
>
> My house is wired with #12 wire for ALL the receptacles, (lighting is
> #14) but I do use the 15 amp receptacles with no problem (except in
> the kitchen where they are 20 amp) - the 15 amp receptacles will not
> accept #12 wire in the 'backstab' holes, so the only choice was to use
> the screw terminals. I have 20 amp breakers on the receptacle
> circuits, but 15 amp on the lighting.
> Yes, I did it myself and the inspector had no problem with my wiring.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>

ke9uw

Re: AC Power for the Station

Old standard way of doing it. They used to use a solder pot and immerse the twisted wires in the hot solder. Then cover with rubbery tape and then friction tape.

Chuck Jack
KE9UW

Sent from my iPhone, cjack

> On Jun 15, 2018, at 1:39 AM, Michael Eberle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I just bought the house I'm living in last year. While changing out some of the receptacles and switches I discovered that they did not use wire nuts for wire connections in the wall boxes. They had attempted to solder the wires and wrapped them in tape. Most, if not all of them were cold solder joints and several inches of the wire insulation had melted during the heating process.
>
> Apparently the codes are not as strict outside of the city limits.
>
> Mike - KI0HA
>
>
>> On 6/14/2018 15:43, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Bob and all,
>>
>> Yes, those "backstab" receptacles that electricians love to use because they are quick and easy do not have adequate contact stength and can overheat and cause voltage drops and a fire hazard.
>>
>> If I were to discover them in any house I occupied, I would pull the wires out of the 'backstab' and put the wires under the screws. There is nothing wrong with the receptacles, except for that marginal wire contact in the 'backstab' contacts - change those to "under the screw" connections and all will be well.
>> There are good 'strip and insert' receptacles use a clamping mechanism tightened with a screw, and those do not have the problem.
>>
>> My house is wired with #12 wire for ALL the receptacles, (lighting is #14) but I do use the 15 amp receptacles with no problem (except in the kitchen where they are 20 amp) - the 15 amp receptacles will not accept #12 wire in the 'backstab' holes, so the only choice was to use the screw terminals. I have 20 amp breakers on the receptacle circuits, but 15 amp on the lighting.
>> Yes, I did it myself and the inspector had no problem with my wiring.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Chuck, KE9UW

Rick WA6NHC-2

Re: AC Power for the Station

In reply to this post by Michael Eberle

Codes are a only sets of standards that must be adopted (at the county
level usually) to have the force of law. The codes are written by
'professionals' (sometimes cronyism sneaks in) who have spent a long
time in the trades and have moved up (i.e. the NFPA is mostly retired
fire chiefs).

Codes are not universally adopted when printed and if they are adopted,
may not be the most recent edition. That is up to the local controlling
board (of supervisors usually). Many boards feel it necessary to
'review' (including modifying for local 'concerns' be that expense or
politics) the code year in question before adoption, and since they are
renewed every couple years with that process being tedious, the adopted
code may be many years out of date.

Where I live, there is no code enforcement be it electrical, building,
plumbing, whatever (but common sense requires following the code, so
does the insurance company). There are no inspectors and no management
for code enforcement even IF it was adopted. There is no budget to hire
an inspector and one does not even whisper adding taxes here to create
any of it.

Putting up a tower is simpler, but I am requiring that the contractor
follow the manufacturers documentation for the base and the power
conduit and wiring are up to code. That way, it becomes part of the
house coverage for the insurance.

The next county to the south enforces building codes, so yes, your
mileage varies. Then, not all contractors (even if licensed) follow the
codes. Not all home inspectors (prior to sale) know what to look for as
well. It is up to the buyer/owner to do their due diligence here.

Mine was a good one, noted that the framing and roof were built over
strong for added snow load for examples; knew the electrical and
plumbing codes, he also caught the small things easily missed.

But now you know how it may have been 'missed'. If in fact it was
inspected at all; there may have been no adopted code to enforce by
inspectors that don't exist.

Rick nhc

On 6/14/2018 11:39 PM, Michael Eberle wrote:

> I just bought the house I'm living in last year. While changing out
> some of the receptacles and switches I discovered that they did not
> use wire nuts for wire connections in the wall boxes. They had
> attempted to solder the wires and wrapped them in tape. Most, if not
> all of them were cold solder joints and several inches of the wire
> insulation had melted during the heating process.
>
> Apparently the codes are not as strict outside of the city limits.
>
> Mike - KI0HA

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: AC Power for the Station [THREAD CLOSED]

Administrator

Folks, this thread was closed -yesterday-. Way OT and well above a reasonable
posting number limit.
Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 6/15/2018 9:01 AM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:

> Codes are a only sets of standards that must be adopted (at the county level
> usually) to have the force of law. The codes are written by 'professionals'
> (sometimes cronyism sneaks in) who have spent a long time in the trades and
> have moved up (i.e. the NFPA is mostly retired fire chiefs).
>
> Codes are not universally adopted when printed and if they are adopted, may
> not be the most recent edition. That is up to the local controlling board (of
> supervisors usually). Many boards feel it necessary to 'review' (including
> modifying for local 'concerns' be that expense or politics) the code year in
> question before adoption, and since they are renewed every couple years with
> that process being tedious, the adopted code may be many years out of date.
>
> Where I live, there is no code enforcement be it electrical, building,
> plumbing, whatever (but common sense requires following the code, so does the
> insurance company). There are no inspectors and no management for code
> enforcement even IF it was adopted. There is no budget to hire an inspector
> and one does not even whisper adding taxes here to create any of it.
>
> Putting up a tower is simpler, but I am requiring that the contractor follow
> the manufacturers documentation for the base and the power conduit and wiring
> are up to code. That way, it becomes part of the house coverage for the
> insurance.
>
> The next county to the south enforces building codes, so yes, your mileage
> varies. Then, not all contractors (even if licensed) follow the codes. Not
> all home inspectors (prior to sale) know what to look for as well. It is up
> to the buyer/owner to do their due diligence here.
>
> Mine was a good one, noted that the framing and roof were built over strong
> for added snow load for examples; knew the electrical and plumbing codes, he
> also caught the small things easily missed.
>
> But now you know how it may have been 'missed'. If in fact it was inspected
> at all; there may have been no adopted code to enforce by inspectors that
> don't exist.
>
> Rick nhc
>
>
> On 6/14/2018 11:39 PM, Michael Eberle wrote:
>> I just bought the house I'm living in last year. While changing out some of
>> the receptacles and switches I discovered that they did not use wire nuts for
>> wire connections in the wall boxes. They had attempted to solder the wires
>> and wrapped them in tape. Most, if not all of them were cold solder joints
>> and several inches of the wire insulation had melted during the heating process.
>>
>> Apparently the codes are not as strict outside of the city limits.
>>
>> Mike - KI0HA
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]