Firmware and DSP Upgrades

[BOB PHILBROOK]

I don't know to what extent or to what degree the tests of K3 firmware and DSP upgrades must reach before being released for general use.

However, it is apparent to me with the numerous issues with NR and DSP that more needs to be done before K3 software products are released for general use.

While I have no aversion to software upgrades, one does not want to trade one set of problems for others.  This, unfortunately, appears to be happening more and more as the software becomes more extensive in capabilities.

I don't know if Elecraft utilizes such techniques, but independent verification and validation (IV&V) of software has proven time and time again to work.  One cannot expect a software developer to adequately test his work.  

Independent testing by a third party against approved criteria catches many bugs and problems developers fail to see.  And unless one has a rigorous, structured software testing effort, problems such as those with DSP and NR will come back and bite you every time.  Having software tested by the developer often leads to the old problem of two steps forward and one in reverse with software releases.

I  make the suggestion that more time be spent proofing firmware and DSP upgrades and for Elecraft to employ software IV&V.

Bob, K9PAG
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[Bob Serwy]

If you read the achieves on this topic you will see that they use several
third parties to test the software upgrades.  They also have official
releases and they have beta releases.


Bob Serwy - N9RS

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of BOB PHILBROOK
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 9:38 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Firmware and DSP Upgrades

I don't know to what extent or to what degree the tests of K3 firmware and
DSP upgrades must reach before being released for general use.

However, it is apparent to me with the numerous issues with NR and DSP that
more needs to be done before K3 software products are released for general
use.

While I have no aversion to software upgrades, one does not want to trade
one set of problems for others.  This, unfortunately, appears to be
happening more and more as the software becomes more extensive in
capabilities.

I don't know if Elecraft utilizes such techniques, but independent
verification and validation (IV&V) of software has proven time and time
again to work.  One cannot expect a software developer to adequately test
his work.  

Independent testing by a third party against approved criteria catches many
bugs and problems developers fail to see.  And unless one has a rigorous,
structured software testing effort, problems such as those with DSP and NR
will come back and bite you every time.  Having software tested by the
developer often leads to the old problem of two steps forward and one in
reverse with software releases.

I  make the suggestion that more time be spent proofing firmware and DSP
upgrades and for Elecraft to employ software IV&V.

Bob, K9PAG
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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Bob,

I can assure you that each released 'beta' firmware version has received
testing by the Firmware Test Team, and we are *not* the programmers.

Often times we are looking at a specific function that has been added,
but we also try to ring out the normal operation of the radio as well
(regression testing).

Sometimes we miss, and the residual problems are not discovered until
the firmware is released to 'beta' status.  When the problems discovered
by the users of the 'beta' release are solved, the firmware is released
as a 'public' release.

Now, consider that those problems identified by those trying out the
beta version and being worked at the same time as the new and added
functions are being worked by the Firmware Test Team, the result is that
there are few 'public' releases at this time.  The newest firmware with
the latest fixes as well as new function are to be found in the 'beta'
releases.

Sorry, but it is a situation of limited resources doing the best we can
to provide you with the 'latest and the greatest'.  In time, the new
functions should diminish, and you will see more fixes in the firmware
releases.  Right now, the concentration seems to be on enhancing the
sub-receiver functions.  Be patient, the comments  from general users
are not being ignored, but they may not be mainstream at this time.

73,
Don W3FPR

BOB PHILBROOK wrote:

> I don't know to what extent or to what degree the tests of K3 firmware and DSP upgrades must reach before being released for general use.
>
> However, it is apparent to me with the numerous issues with NR and DSP that more needs to be done before K3 software products are released for general use.
>
> While I have no aversion to software upgrades, one does not want to trade one set of problems for others.  This, unfortunately, appears to be happening more and more as the software becomes more extensive in capabilities.
>
> I don't know if Elecraft utilizes such techniques, but independent verification and validation (IV&V) of software has proven time and time again to work.  One cannot expect a software developer to adequately test his work.  
>
> Independent testing by a third party against approved criteria catches many bugs and problems developers fail to see.  And unless one has a rigorous, structured software testing effort, problems such as those with DSP and NR will come back and bite you every time.  Having software tested by the developer often leads to the old problem of two steps forward and one in reverse with software releases.
>
> I  make the suggestion that more time be spent proofing firmware and DSP upgrades and for Elecraft to employ software IV&V.
>
> Bob, K9PAG
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[Guy, K2AV]

...

I  make the suggestion that more time be spent proofing firmware and DSP upgrades and for Elecraft to employ software IV&V.

Bob, K9PAG

With all due respect, and perhaps a bit too blunt, BETA is BETA.  The OFFICIAL (production) release has not changed since I received my K3.

If you are averse to risk and finding a bug, then just don't do beta.  Otherwise join the fray and find out what it's like to have responsive programmers, and half a thousand "field testers" working on beta releases (and KNOWING they are beta releases).

I've been in the software business for four decades and do not perceive the Elecraft procedures as substandard, or lacking in procedure.  Only in the government and regulated monopolies (read the old Bell System) or life-dependent products can one get away with testing something for four years before commercial release.

Also a K3 is not the FAA Flight Service System and peoples lives do not depend on it.

Just their contest scores :>)

[KENT TRIMBLE]

A lot of the comments about software problems are due to people not
reading the release notes, not understanding multiple configuration
options, not accurately following the assembly manuals, as well as newly
licensed hams who bypass entry level radios in favor of sophisticated
rigs that end up being over their heads.  A fair number of comments are
also mere grousing for the sake of grousing.

As noted after nearly every firmware release, gripes are frequently
followed by praise once the new options are understood and played with.

The assertion that each new release is a step backward is patently
untrue (and also unfair).  By comparison, the Big Three NEVER release
information about hardware or firmware upgrades, NEVER encourage
retrofitting, and NEVER even answer email.  They want you to buy new stuff.

Elecraft on the other hand is still supporting all their rigs, still
upgrading both hardware and software (KX1 has a new p.a.) even as they
are fine-tuning the K3.  Many purchasers have marveled that their emails
to the support staff get answered within hours, even on the weekends.  
Independent testing, as the writer below calls it, IS being done by
over  a dozen beta-testers working without pay for the love of the
product and the hobby.  A lot of the so-called "issues" alluded to in
this post are merely personal preferences that are not shared by the
majority of purchasers.  It is to Elecraft's credit that they have bent
over backward to accommodate even the eclectic among us while
maintaining an affordable radio that has superior performance.

But the most important fact to keep in mind is that none of us are share
holders.  It's not our company.  "Suggest" all you want, but it's their
debt, their mortgage, their retirement, their business AND . . . none of
ours.


Kent  K9ZTV





Someone wrote:

> I don't know to what extent or to what degree the tests of K3 firmware and DSP upgrades must reach before being released for general use.
>
> However, it is apparent to me with the numerous issues with NR and DSP that more needs to be done before K3 software products are released for general use.
>
> While I have no aversion to software upgrades, one does not want to trade one set of problems for others.  This, unfortunately, appears to be happening more and more as the software becomes more extensive in capabilities.
>
> I don't know if Elecraft utilizes such techniques, but independent verification and validation (IV&V) of software has proven time and time again to work.  One cannot expect a software developer to adequately test his work.  
>
> Independent testing by a third party against approved criteria catches many bugs and problems developers fail to see.  And unless one has a rigorous, structured software testing effort, problems such as those with DSP and NR will come back and bite you every time.  Having software tested by the developer often leads to the old problem of two steps forward and one in reverse with software releases.
>
> I  make the suggestion that more time be spent proofing firmware and DSP upgrades and for Elecraft to employ software IV&V.

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