Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Tony Estep]

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 6:18 AM, Bill Cotter <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> You have expressed what the marketplace confirms...

===========
Yep. Remember that at one time Unix dominated the workstation market in
finance and other major industries. Sun, IBM and HP all had versions, and
every Wall Street trader's desk had one of their workstations hooked up to
an all-Unix network. When NT version 3 came out, it was buggy and the
machines it ran on were wimpy, but the rush to ditch Unix and switch to NT
swept the street within a year or two. Now none of the three once-dominant
workstation companies are selling those products, and in fact Sun is
defunct. Don's comments may sound unfair to a hard-core Unix person, but
they are a valid reflection of the Unix experience as it affects many
users, and as it obliterated what was once a flourishing component of the
tech industry.

Of course Unix will do the job; that isn't the issue. After all, various
flavors of Unix underlie Mac OS, Android OS, your router, your microwave
oven, your network provider, Google, Facebook, and so forth. The PR problem
that it has had lies not in the power of its kernel or its networking or
file-handling, but rather in the opacity that confounds the user who just
wants to hook up his printer or download a file. An earlier post explaining
why some cryptic gibberish was not, in fact, cryptic, illustrates this
perfectly: "...666 is octal notation for granting permission....." If this
is obvious to you, then Unix is for you. If not, not.

73,
Tony KT0NY







--
http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Jim Low man]

Michael, a lot has changed in the 47 years since I got onto amateur radio.
Early on, many hams built, and even designed, their own radio equipment.
In fact, much of what was in QST and other amateur publications at that
time were articles on construction, and many built from those designs and
parts lists.

Commercially-available receivers, transmitters and transceivers have been
around well before 1965, as was the term "appliance operator."

For many of us at that time, interest in amateur radio often led to career
opportunities, or led us to studies in the electronics field in college or
technical schools.  Advances in technology and deregulation by the FCC
caused many of those opportunities to vanish.

Except for a cadre of QRP enthusiasts and VHF/UHF experimenters, we
are all becoming appliance operators or are heading in that direction.

Heathkit went out of business many years ago, although their kits
continue in operation to this day.  Today, with the advent of SDR
technology,
so much of what's in a K3 or KX3 is SMT.  How many of us really would want
to install all of those miniature components?  I know that I wouldn't, even
with having good eyesight and a steady hand still.  So, most of us who
buy from Elecraft are reduced to being mechanical assemblers, although it
is still possible to have the enjoyment of soldering through-hole parts and
winding toroids with the K1 and K2.

I had not been to HRO in about 10 years, and visited the San Diego store
when we were visiting my father-in-law.  Looking around, I noticed a number
of pre-built G5RV, dipole and J-Pole antennas; things that could be easily
constructed, and probably at less cost.  I had to wonder what was
sacrificed
in order to display these items.

That being said, I will buy coax cable with the connectors attached. To this
day I still have an arrogance about putting connectors on coax cables.  
As we
used to say in radar maintenance in the Air Force, "That's 3-level work;"
with "3-level"meaning guys who just arrived from tech school with no
field experience.

I'm also a believer in Linux, but realize that most software developed for
the amateur radio market is Windows-based.  Thus, I continue to expand
my knowledge in Linux as a hobby, having retired from the IT profession.

73 de Jim - AD6CW
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Bill K9YEQ]

Don,

I couldn't echo your comments more perfectly!  I run it for fun but it is
only an email handler and toy for me... besides I haven't the time.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ


-----Original Message-----


Let me give one OT "RANT", and then I will shut up on this subject.
Suffice it to say that I have been extremely disappointing in all Linux
distributions because of the lack of any organized support fort the users -
the attitude seems to be "if you don't already understand the nuances of
Linux, we will shame your questions and be very unhelpful.  
Check out the various forums and "FAQ" lists to verify this attitude.

I have tried Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and Debian in the recent past, and have
found that unless you wish to spend a loot of time in "geekdom study", the
terms are cryptic and not logical acronyms, and  the user groups are useless
unless one is already fluent in their brand of "geek-speak".  
Yes, I am computer fluent in Windows and peer-to-peer networking - I have
worked with PCs since the Apple II days and the IBM PC DOS systems are no
stranger to me, but the Linux groups are just not helpful at all to those
who do not understand their peculiar cryptic language.

In other words, there are no clear and concise instructions for Linux.  
The "Man pages" are supposedly the answer, but they offer geek-speak
explanations for those who are not initiated and expert into the Linux brand
of geekdom.

I know, there are many who will disagree, but you will have to point me to a
(non-on-line) manual that I can use as a reference book and is similar to
those like "Mastering Windows XP Professional", Linux in any distro is just
not going to "make the grade".

For those who simply want to do email and surf the web, Ubuntu is great, as
is Linux Mint - it has all the tools those users need, but for those who
want to do such things as network a Linux workstation into a Windows peer to
peer network, there is just not enough explicit information about how to set
it up and make it work. Windows peer-to-peer is native, but with Linux, it
is a complex "add-on" that I have not been able to master after several
attempts with Samba configuration.

I once thought Linux would be my road to salvation without buying
Windows7 for 7 computers on my home network, but it just does not work
consistently, so I guess I will have to spend the upgrade fees for Win7.

So until Linux gives up its superior "I am geek and I want it to stay that
way" attitude, it will never fly properly.  Ubuntu and Mint have come a long
way in making installation easier, but there is a long way to go in
usability.

Linux will also have to give up using "cute" names for applications to make
sense to users - for instance, Photoshop has a relevant name for photo
editing, but GIMP might mean something like "geeky image manipulating
program" to Linux fans, but it has no obvioous meaning to the average user.

Until Linux "gets real" instead of continuing to be "geeky", it will never
fly - meaningful names are important - at least that is my opinion
- I equate abstract naming to "geeky", and by saying "geeky" it means
exclusionary, and not to be understood by the general user.  And that is
what is wrong with Linux.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/9/2012 11:38 PM, Dick Roth wrote:
> FYI...to get to manage users and groups one needs to install
> "gnome-system-tools".  This can be done via the gui Ubuntu Software
> Center.  Once installed you can get to Users and Groups through the
> Dash.


______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Bill K9YEQ]

Tony,

Reminds me of OSX.  I was a devotee until MS pulled the plug on DOS.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tony Estep
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:48 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 6:18 AM, Bill Cotter <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> You have expressed what the marketplace confirms...

===========
Yep. Remember that at one time Unix dominated the workstation market in
finance and other major industries. Sun, IBM and HP all had versions, and
every Wall Street trader's desk had one of their workstations hooked up to
an all-Unix network. When NT version 3 came out, it was buggy and the
machines it ran on were wimpy, but the rush to ditch Unix and switch to NT
swept the street within a year or two. Now none of the three once-dominant
workstation companies are selling those products, and in fact Sun is
defunct. Don's comments may sound unfair to a hard-core Unix person, but
they are a valid reflection of the Unix experience as it affects many users,
and as it obliterated what was once a flourishing component of the tech
industry.

Of course Unix will do the job; that isn't the issue. After all, various
flavors of Unix underlie Mac OS, Android OS, your router, your microwave
oven, your network provider, Google, Facebook, and so forth. The PR problem
that it has had lies not in the power of its kernel or its networking or
file-handling, but rather in the opacity that confounds the user who just
wants to hook up his printer or download a file. An earlier post explaining
why some cryptic gibberish was not, in fact, cryptic, illustrates this
perfectly: "...666 is octal notation for granting permission....." If this
is obvious to you, then Unix is for you. If not, not.

73,
Tony KT0NY







--
http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Jussi Eloranta]

>
> Let me give one OT "RANT", and then I will shut up on this subject.
> Suffice it to say that I have been extremely disappointing in all Linux
> distributions because of the lack of any organized support fort the users -
> the attitude seems to be "if you don't already understand the nuances of
> Linux, we will shame your questions and be very unhelpful.
> Check out the various forums and "FAQ" lists to verify this attitude.
>
> I have tried Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and Debian in the recent past, and have
> found that unless you wish to spend a loot of time in "geekdom study", the
> terms are cryptic and not logical acronyms, and  the user groups are useless
> unless one is already fluent in their brand of "geek-speak".
> Yes, I am computer fluent in Windows and peer-to-peer networking - I have
> worked with PCs since the Apple II days and the IBM PC DOS systems are no
> stranger to me, but the Linux groups are just not helpful at all to those
> who do not understand their peculiar cryptic language.
>
> In other words, there are no clear and concise instructions for Linux.
> The "Man pages" are supposedly the answer, but they offer geek-speak
> explanations for those who are not initiated and expert into the Linux brand
> of geekdom.
>
> I know, there are many who will disagree, but you will have to point me to a
> (non-on-line) manual that I can use as a reference book and is similar to
> those like "Mastering Windows XP Professional", Linux in any distro is just
> not going to "make the grade".
>
> For those who simply want to do email and surf the web, Ubuntu is great, as
> is Linux Mint - it has all the tools those users need, but for those who
> want to do such things as network a Linux workstation into a Windows peer to
> peer network, there is just not enough explicit information about how to set
> it up and make it work. Windows peer-to-peer is native, but with Linux, it
> is a complex "add-on" that I have not been able to master after several
> attempts with Samba configuration.
>

I don't think these quite belong to the Elecraft list but since this
already took off...

If you can't understand how computers work, use what ever you can. Linux
(and Unix in general) is superior to anything made my microsoft pretty
much from every aspect. Talking about these two at the same time is like
comparing ham radio and CB.

Just my $.02,

Jussi Eloranta (AA6KJ)

ps. BTW Setting up samba is trivial - takes about 3 minutes. There are
many step by step instructions on the net.


______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Guy, K2AV]

One of the comments attributed to Kernigan or Ritchie, forget which,
was "If I had known that it [Unix] was going to become a widely used
system instead of the narrowly targeted in-house tool first imagined,
I would have named programs and functions more carefully.  I was just
having fun with the names."

Unix-ish systems like Linux are remarkably non-intuitive, until you
have learned it.  It does not extend off anything else that is well
known.  It does not suit appliance-user level OS purchasers.  I have
used Unix and variants since 1973, and have watched 10 struggle to get
going for every 1 who got it easy.  The mental mindset of a person
commonly called a "computer geek" is very useful for learning Unix
variants.

There are many advantages to the Unix system. The only more scalable
system on the planet is IBM's mainframe ZOS, and even that now has a
complete "Unix services subsystem" as an integrated part of the OS.
Lot of huge stuff simply could not be done without it, including apps
I managed at SAS Institute before I retired.

BUT, it will never be the general population OS, and for good reason.
That doesn't make Linux good or bad, or OSX good or bad.  But a Linux
K3 utility will never be the mainline device as is the Windows
version.  But the Linux version is likely to be a favorite of a
professional who uses some Unix variant all day, and is just thinking
in that frame of reference when he gets home.

73, Guy.

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 6:37 PM, Bill K9YEQ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Don,
>
> I couldn't echo your comments more perfectly!  I run it for fun but it is
> only an email handler and toy for me... besides I haven't the time.
>
> 73,
> Bill
> K9YEQ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> Let me give one OT "RANT", and then I will shut up on this subject.
> Suffice it to say that I have been extremely disappointing in all Linux
> distributions because of the lack of any organized support fort the users -
> the attitude seems to be "if you don't already understand the nuances of
> Linux, we will shame your questions and be very unhelpful.
> Check out the various forums and "FAQ" lists to verify this attitude.
>
> I have tried Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and Debian in the recent past, and have
> found that unless you wish to spend a loot of time in "geekdom study", the
> terms are cryptic and not logical acronyms, and  the user groups are useless
> unless one is already fluent in their brand of "geek-speak".
> Yes, I am computer fluent in Windows and peer-to-peer networking - I have
> worked with PCs since the Apple II days and the IBM PC DOS systems are no
> stranger to me, but the Linux groups are just not helpful at all to those
> who do not understand their peculiar cryptic language.
>
> In other words, there are no clear and concise instructions for Linux.
> The "Man pages" are supposedly the answer, but they offer geek-speak
> explanations for those who are not initiated and expert into the Linux brand
> of geekdom.
>
> I know, there are many who will disagree, but you will have to point me to a
> (non-on-line) manual that I can use as a reference book and is similar to
> those like "Mastering Windows XP Professional", Linux in any distro is just
> not going to "make the grade".
>
> For those who simply want to do email and surf the web, Ubuntu is great, as
> is Linux Mint - it has all the tools those users need, but for those who
> want to do such things as network a Linux workstation into a Windows peer to
> peer network, there is just not enough explicit information about how to set
> it up and make it work. Windows peer-to-peer is native, but with Linux, it
> is a complex "add-on" that I have not been able to master after several
> attempts with Samba configuration.
>
> I once thought Linux would be my road to salvation without buying
> Windows7 for 7 computers on my home network, but it just does not work
> consistently, so I guess I will have to spend the upgrade fees for Win7.
>
> So until Linux gives up its superior "I am geek and I want it to stay that
> way" attitude, it will never fly properly.  Ubuntu and Mint have come a long
> way in making installation easier, but there is a long way to go in
> usability.
>
> Linux will also have to give up using "cute" names for applications to make
> sense to users - for instance, Photoshop has a relevant name for photo
> editing, but GIMP might mean something like "geeky image manipulating
> program" to Linux fans, but it has no obvioous meaning to the average user.
>
> Until Linux "gets real" instead of continuing to be "geeky", it will never
> fly - meaningful names are important - at least that is my opinion
> - I equate abstract naming to "geeky", and by saying "geeky" it means
> exclusionary, and not to be understood by the general user.  And that is
> what is wrong with Linux.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 7/9/2012 11:38 PM, Dick Roth wrote:
>> FYI...to get to manage users and groups one needs to install
>> "gnome-system-tools".  This can be done via the gui Ubuntu Software
>> Center.  Once installed you can get to Users and Groups through the
>> Dash.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Alan Jump]

As I just pointed out on a local discussion that was in the middle of a
Windows vs. Mac debate:
Linux is for technicians.
Windows is for management and accountants.
Macs are for artists.

All three can do some serious number-crunching. But Linux, especially in
the command-line mode, is best described as "user-antagonistic". I
happen to like command-line operation for certain tasks; it's actually
faster than waiting for a graphic environment to open, especially if I'm
doing something like network setups or troubleshooting. And I've been
doing it long enough that I can (and probably have) worked through
network problems in my sleep. Others aren't as comfortable typing in
long, arcane strings of commands, options and arguments. For them, there
are graphics-oriented packages that do the same job.

We now return to our regularly-scheduled forum, already in progress...
--
73 de N5ILN/6
Alan

On 7/10/2012 4:14 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

> One of the comments attributed to Kernigan or Ritchie, forget which,
> was "If I had known that it [Unix] was going to become a widely used
> system instead of the narrowly targeted in-house tool first imagined,
> I would have named programs and functions more carefully.  I was just
> having fun with the names."
>
> Unix-ish systems like Linux are remarkably non-intuitive, until you
> have learned it.  It does not extend off anything else that is well
> known.  It does not suit appliance-user level OS purchasers.  I have
> used Unix and variants since 1973, and have watched 10 struggle to get
> going for every 1 who got it easy.  The mental mindset of a person
> commonly called a "computer geek" is very useful for learning Unix
> variants.
>
> There are many advantages to the Unix system. The only more scalable
> system on the planet is IBM's mainframe ZOS, and even that now has a
> complete "Unix services subsystem" as an integrated part of the OS.
> Lot of huge stuff simply could not be done without it, including apps
> I managed at SAS Institute before I retired.
>
> BUT, it will never be the general population OS, and for good reason.
> That doesn't make Linux good or bad, or OSX good or bad.  But a Linux
> K3 utility will never be the mainline device as is the Windows
> version.  But the Linux version is likely to be a favorite of a
> professional who uses some Unix variant all day, and is just thinking
> in that frame of reference when he gets home.
>
> 73, Guy.
>
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 6:37 PM, Bill K9YEQ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Don,
>>
>> I couldn't echo your comments more perfectly!  I run it for fun but it is
>> only an email handler and toy for me... besides I haven't the time.
>>
>> 73,
>> Bill
>> K9YEQ
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>>
>> Let me give one OT "RANT", and then I will shut up on this subject.
>> Suffice it to say that I have been extremely disappointing in all Linux
>> distributions because of the lack of any organized support fort the users -
>> the attitude seems to be "if you don't already understand the nuances of
>> Linux, we will shame your questions and be very unhelpful.
>> Check out the various forums and "FAQ" lists to verify this attitude.
>>
>> I have tried Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and Debian in the recent past, and have
>> found that unless you wish to spend a loot of time in "geekdom study", the
>> terms are cryptic and not logical acronyms, and  the user groups are useless
>> unless one is already fluent in their brand of "geek-speak".
>> Yes, I am computer fluent in Windows and peer-to-peer networking - I have
>> worked with PCs since the Apple II days and the IBM PC DOS systems are no
>> stranger to me, but the Linux groups are just not helpful at all to those
>> who do not understand their peculiar cryptic language.
>>
>> In other words, there are no clear and concise instructions for Linux.
>> The "Man pages" are supposedly the answer, but they offer geek-speak
>> explanations for those who are not initiated and expert into the Linux brand
>> of geekdom.
>>
>> I know, there are many who will disagree, but you will have to point me to a
>> (non-on-line) manual that I can use as a reference book and is similar to
>> those like "Mastering Windows XP Professional", Linux in any distro is just
>> not going to "make the grade".
>>
>> For those who simply want to do email and surf the web, Ubuntu is great, as
>> is Linux Mint - it has all the tools those users need, but for those who
>> want to do such things as network a Linux workstation into a Windows peer to
>> peer network, there is just not enough explicit information about how to set
>> it up and make it work. Windows peer-to-peer is native, but with Linux, it
>> is a complex "add-on" that I have not been able to master after several
>> attempts with Samba configuration.
>>
>> I once thought Linux would be my road to salvation without buying
>> Windows7 for 7 computers on my home network, but it just does not work
>> consistently, so I guess I will have to spend the upgrade fees for Win7.
>>
>> So until Linux gives up its superior "I am geek and I want it to stay that
>> way" attitude, it will never fly properly.  Ubuntu and Mint have come a long
>> way in making installation easier, but there is a long way to go in
>> usability.
>>
>> Linux will also have to give up using "cute" names for applications to make
>> sense to users - for instance, Photoshop has a relevant name for photo
>> editing, but GIMP might mean something like "geeky image manipulating
>> program" to Linux fans, but it has no obvioous meaning to the average user.
>>
>> Until Linux "gets real" instead of continuing to be "geeky", it will never
>> fly - meaningful names are important - at least that is my opinion
>> - I equate abstract naming to "geeky", and by saying "geeky" it means
>> exclusionary, and not to be understood by the general user.  And that is
>> what is wrong with Linux.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 7/9/2012 11:38 PM, Dick Roth wrote:
>>> FYI...to get to manage users and groups one needs to install
>>> "gnome-system-tools".  This can be done via the gui Ubuntu Software
>>> Center.  Once installed you can get to Users and Groups through the
>>> Dash.
>>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Tony Estep]

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 6:06 PM, Jussi Eloranta <[hidden email]>wrote:

> ... Linux (and Unix in general) is superior to anything made my
> microsoft...
>
==========
Doggone right. Only with Unix can you

export CUPSPID=`ps -ef | grep cups | grep -v grep | awk '{print $2;}'`

all on one line. Extra credit: what does this do? Why?

73, Tony KT0NY


--
http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[David Fleming-2]

> export CUPSPID=`ps -ef | grep cups | grep -v grep | awk '{print $2;}'`


This would assign the process ID (PID) of the cups deamon to an environment variable (CUPSPID). But only if the cups daemon is running. The variable could be used to troubleshoot printer issues, or to determine if  the cups daemon is running before trying to print.

This could be shortened by just using awk. 

ps -ef | awk '/cups/&&!/awk/{print $2}'

I think.

We're getting WAAAAY off topic folks. :)

David, W4SMT 

==========
Doggone right. Only with Unix can you

export CUPSPID=`ps -ef | grep cups | grep -v grep | awk '{print $2;}'`

all on one line. Extra credit: what does this do? Why?
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Jim Low man]

Sorry to those who aren't interested...

We had a Z-Frame at my office.  I was the systems programmer for three
years,
until we decommissioned it.

VSE/POWER ran on top of the Unix implementation.  I had to remember to
shut both down in an orderly manner.

One big pain with Windows is the need to reboot or restart the OS
periodically.
We had one Unix box that hadn't come offline in seven years, and then not
until the p/s failed.

Stability.

72/73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 7/10/2012 4:14 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
> There are many advantages to the Unix system. The only more scalable
> system on the planet is IBM's mainframe ZOS, and even that now has a
> complete "Unix services subsystem" as an integrated part of the OS.
> Lot of huge stuff simply could not be done without it, including apps
> I managed at SAS Institute before I retired.
>
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Jim Low man]

Okay, I said that I'd stop, but...

I have been in software development since before the days of DOS. For fun,
I took a five-course certification in Unix/Linux systems at the local UC
campus.

It was fun to watch these younger guys struggle, after the instructor told
everyone on the first day of the first class to shell-out to the command
line
and stay there.  Most of them had never seen a command line.

72/73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 7/10/2012 4:37 PM, Alan Jump wrote:

> All three can do some serious number-crunching. But Linux, especially in
> the command-line mode, is best described as "user-antagonistic". I
> happen to like command-line operation for certain tasks; it's actually
> faster than waiting for a graphic environment to open, especially if I'm
> doing something like network setups or troubleshooting. And I've been
> doing it long enough that I can (and probably have) worked through
> network problems in my sleep. Others aren't as comfortable typing in
> long, arcane strings of commands, options and arguments. For them, there
> are graphics-oriented packages that do the same job.
>
> We now return to our regularly-scheduled forum, already in progress...
> --
> 73 de N5ILN/6
> Alan
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ]

Folks - Time to end this thread. Its drifting way OT. Please avoid this
level of Ot discussion in the future by taking the thread off list after
a few posts.

73,

Eric
Elecraft List Moderator ---
www.elecraft.com

On 7/10/2012 6:23 PM, Jim Lowman wrote:

> Okay, I said that I'd stop, but...
>
> I have been in software development since before the days of DOS. For fun,
> I took a five-course certification in Unix/Linux systems at the local UC
> campus.
>
> It was fun to watch these younger guys struggle, after the instructor told
> everyone on the first day of the first class to shell-out to the command
> line
> and stay there.  Most of them had never seen a command line.
>
> 72/73 de Jim - AD6CW
>
> On 7/10/2012 4:37 PM, Alan Jump wrote:
>> All three can do some serious number-crunching. But Linux, especially in
>> the command-line mode, is best described as "user-antagonistic". I
>> happen to like command-line operation for certain tasks; it's actually
>> faster than waiting for a graphic environment to open, especially if I'm
>> doing something like network setups or troubleshooting. And I've been
>> doing it long enough that I can (and probably have) worked through
>> network problems in my sleep. Others aren't as comfortable typing in
>> long, arcane strings of commands, options and arguments. For them, there
>> are graphics-oriented packages that do the same job.
>>
>> We now return to our regularly-scheduled forum, already in progress...
>> --
>> 73 de N5ILN/6
>> Alan
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ]

Thread Closed
73,

Eric
Elecraft List Moderator ---
www.elecraft.com


______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html