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Flumoxed

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Flumoxed

Lee, it looks like your inverted L wire has stretched. Check with an antenna analyzer and you will probably see your resonate frequency is lower than 1.8 Mhz. Perhaps time to do some triming.
Don, W4CBS
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Don Wilhelm

Re: Flumoxed

Not necessarily - notice the relatively flat SWR (less than 2:1) over a
large frequency range (for 160 meters). That normally means that the
antenna is acting more like a resistance than a radiator.

I would expect the SWR on 160 meters to be low only over a 25kHz or at
most 50kHz range of the band.

When the SWR bandwidth of an antenna increases, you should be looking
for a problem in that feedline, antenna to feedline connections or in
the case of a vertical, the ground radial system.

One possibility is that the radial wires installed were aluminum - they
do not last very long in the ground, for some reason, moles like to chew
on them.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/3/2018 9:18 AM, Don Roberts via Elecraft wrote:
> Lee, it looks like your inverted L wire has stretched. Check with an antenna analyzer and you will probably see your resonate frequency is lower than 1.8 Mhz. Perhaps time to do some triming.
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Michael Walker

Re: Flumoxed

It would have to stretch about 4-5ft to see a difference of 50Khz in
resonance. I doubt it has stretched that far.

I see huge swings in my inverted L resonance (with 4 elevated radials) and
it is 100% related the ground freezing and unfreezing and ground
conductivity changing.

My 2:1 SWR points are about 80Khz apart. 2 months ago my resonance was
about 1850khz. Today it has slice up and the end result is that my SWR at
the bottom of the band is now 2.3:1 when it used to be 1.9:1. That is in 2
readings 28 days apart. My new low edge is 1813Khz. The easy fix is to
add 3ft tot he vertical part. In the spring, I will have to remove it
again.

I have before and after screen shots, but I don't think I can send them to
this reflector. If someone wants to see them, let me know and I'll send
them to you.

Like Don said, his broad bandwidth is due to ground losses.

Mike va3mw

On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 10:30 AM Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Not necessarily - notice the relatively flat SWR (less than 2:1) over a
> large frequency range (for 160 meters). That normally means that the
> antenna is acting more like a resistance than a radiator.
>
> I would expect the SWR on 160 meters to be low only over a 25kHz or at
> most 50kHz range of the band.
>
> When the SWR bandwidth of an antenna increases, you should be looking
> for a problem in that feedline, antenna to feedline connections or in
> the case of a vertical, the ground radial system.
>
> One possibility is that the radial wires installed were aluminum - they
> do not last very long in the ground, for some reason, moles like to chew
> on them.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 12/3/2018 9:18 AM, Don Roberts via Elecraft wrote:
> > Lee, it looks like your inverted L wire has stretched. Check with an
> antenna analyzer and you will probably see your resonate frequency is lower
> than 1.8 Mhz. Perhaps time to do some triming.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>

John Simmons

Re: Flumoxed

I installed a GAP Voyager vertical about the beginning of October. The
ground has frozen now and the SWR dip has gone from 1830 to about 1820
now. I was curious why and the frozen ground theory makes sense.

-John NI0K

Michael Walker wrote on 12/3/2018 10:13 AM:

> It would have to stretch about 4-5ft to see a difference of 50Khz in
> resonance. I doubt it has stretched that far.
>
> I see huge swings in my inverted L resonance (with 4 elevated radials) and
> it is 100% related the ground freezing and unfreezing and ground
> conductivity changing.
>
> My 2:1 SWR points are about 80Khz apart. 2 months ago my resonance was
> about 1850khz. Today it has slice up and the end result is that my SWR at
> the bottom of the band is now 2.3:1 when it used to be 1.9:1. That is in 2
> readings 28 days apart. My new low edge is 1813Khz. The easy fix is to
> add 3ft tot he vertical part. In the spring, I will have to remove it
> again.
>
> I have before and after screen shots, but I don't think I can send them to
> this reflector. If someone wants to see them, let me know and I'll send
> them to you.
>
> Like Don said, his broad bandwidth is due to ground losses.
>
> Mike va3mw
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 10:30 AM Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Not necessarily - notice the relatively flat SWR (less than 2:1) over a
>> large frequency range (for 160 meters). That normally means that the
>> antenna is acting more like a resistance than a radiator.
>>
>> I would expect the SWR on 160 meters to be low only over a 25kHz or at
>> most 50kHz range of the band.
>>
>> When the SWR bandwidth of an antenna increases, you should be looking
>> for a problem in that feedline, antenna to feedline connections or in
>> the case of a vertical, the ground radial system.
>>
>> One possibility is that the radial wires installed were aluminum - they
>> do not last very long in the ground, for some reason, moles like to chew
>> on them.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 12/3/2018 9:18 AM, Don Roberts via Elecraft wrote:
>>> Lee, it looks like your inverted L wire has stretched. Check with an
>> antenna analyzer and you will probably see your resonate frequency is lower
>> than 1.8 Mhz. Perhaps time to do some triming.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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N2TK

Re: Flumoxed

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

A number of years ago, the SWR on my shunt fed tower kept getting wider and
flatter. The feedline buried hardline with an aluminum jacket. The soil
here in upstate NY had eaten away the aluminum and produced a goo. When I
disconnected all the feedlines to the tower the shield on the 160M feed
showed a high resistance.
The shield of the other feedlines were providing the return path. So, nice
SWR but not a very efficient antenna.
73,
N2TK, Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 10:07 AM
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Flumoxed

Not necessarily - notice the relatively flat SWR (less than 2:1) over a
large frequency range (for 160 meters). That normally means that the
antenna is acting more like a resistance than a radiator.

I would expect the SWR on 160 meters to be low only over a 25kHz or at most
50kHz range of the band.

When the SWR bandwidth of an antenna increases, you should be looking for a
problem in that feedline, antenna to feedline connections or in the case of
a vertical, the ground radial system.

One possibility is that the radial wires installed were aluminum - they do
not last very long in the ground, for some reason, moles like to chew on
them.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/3/2018 9:18 AM, Don Roberts via Elecraft wrote:
> Lee, it looks like your inverted L wire has stretched. Check with an
antenna analyzer and you will probably see your resonate frequency is lower
than 1.8 Mhz. Perhaps time to do some triming.
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k6dgw

Re: Flumoxed

Remember the B&W Wide-Band Folded Dipole, often found over National
Guard Armories, that's older than most of us? Very broad band in the
middle of the HF spectrum, achieved with a 200 ohm [IIRC] resistor.
While no so good for hams, NG soldiers are not known for DX'ing and it
worked great for them over perhaps 4 or 5 working frequencies. The
resistor burned half the power, and it also broadened the SWR curve
dramatically by swamping out the changing complex impedance at the
feedpoint.

Incidentally, B&W was completely up front about how the antenna achieved
such a broad band response in contrast with the claims of the "miracle
antennas" advertised in the magazines.

73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 12/5/2018 1:19 PM, N2TK, Tony wrote:

> A number of years ago, the SWR on my shunt fed tower kept getting wider and
> flatter. The feedline buried hardline with an aluminum jacket. The soil
> here in upstate NY had eaten away the aluminum and produced a goo. When I
> disconnected all the feedlines to the tower the shield on the 160M feed
> showed a high resistance.
> The shield of the other feedlines were providing the return path. So, nice
> SWR but not a very efficient antenna.
> 73,
> N2TK, Tony
>

Rose

Re: Flumoxed

Was originally known as a T2FD ...

Savvy marketing by B & W ...

73 !

K0PP

On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 16:07 Fred Jensen <[hidden email] wrote:

> Remember the B&W Wide-Band Folded Dipole, often found over National
> Guard Armories, that's older than most of us? Very broad band in the
> middle of the HF spectrum, achieved with a 200 ohm [IIRC] resistor.
> While no so good for hams, NG soldiers are not known for DX'ing and it
> worked great for them over perhaps 4 or 5 working frequencies. The
> resistor burned half the power, and it also broadened the SWR curve
> dramatically by swamping out the changing complex impedance at the
> feedpoint.
>
> Incidentally, B&W was completely up front about how the antenna achieved
> such a broad band response in contrast with the claims of the "miracle
> antennas" advertised in the magazines.
>
> 73,
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> On 12/5/2018 1:19 PM, N2TK, Tony wrote:
> > A number of years ago, the SWR on my shunt fed tower kept getting wider
> and
> > flatter. The feedline buried hardline with an aluminum jacket. The soil
> > here in upstate NY had eaten away the aluminum and produced a goo. When I
> > disconnected all the feedlines to the tower the shield on the 160M feed
> > showed a high resistance.
> > The shield of the other feedlines were providing the return path. So,
> nice
> > SWR but not a very efficient antenna.
> > 73,
> > N2TK, Tony
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]

NK7Z

Re: Flumoxed

I have one of the BWD-90 antennas up now, (at 25 feet), and use it for
local contacts on HF daily...

DX is the vertical, soon to be a beam at 55 feet.... I also use the
BWD-90 for all the WARC bands, save 30, which is the vertical.

I also have a new in the box BWD-90, (copper version, not the steel
version), as well...

Works well with a K3, as the rig is atmospheric noise limited.

73s and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z/NNR0DC)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL OOC for Oregon

On 12/5/18 3:13 PM, Rose wrote:

> Was originally known as a T2FD ...
>
> Savvy marketing by B & W ...
>
> 73 !
>
> K0PP
>
> On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 16:07 Fred Jensen <[hidden email] wrote:
>
>> Remember the B&W Wide-Band Folded Dipole, often found over National
>> Guard Armories, that's older than most of us? Very broad band in the
>> middle of the HF spectrum, achieved with a 200 ohm [IIRC] resistor.
>> While no so good for hams, NG soldiers are not known for DX'ing and it
>> worked great for them over perhaps 4 or 5 working frequencies. The
>> resistor burned half the power, and it also broadened the SWR curve
>> dramatically by swamping out the changing complex impedance at the
>> feedpoint.
>>
>> Incidentally, B&W was completely up front about how the antenna achieved
>> such a broad band response in contrast with the claims of the "miracle
>> antennas" advertised in the magazines.
>>
>> 73,
>> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
>> Sparks NV DM09dn
>> Washoe County
>>
>> On 12/5/2018 1:19 PM, N2TK, Tony wrote:
>>> A number of years ago, the SWR on my shunt fed tower kept getting wider
>> and
>>> flatter. The feedline buried hardline with an aluminum jacket. The soil
>>> here in upstate NY had eaten away the aluminum and produced a goo. When I
>>> disconnected all the feedlines to the tower the shield on the 160M feed
>>> showed a high resistance.
>>> The shield of the other feedlines were providing the return path. So,
>> nice
>>> SWR but not a very efficient antenna.
>>> 73,
>>> N2TK, Tony
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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>

k6dgw

Less Than Perfect Antennas [was Flumoxed]

It seems these days that the "Amateur media," which includes all of us
conversing on the air or via email lists, tends to dismiss LTPA [less
than perfect antennas] which may be discouraging some Technicians from
trying out their HF allocations on 10, 15, 40, and 80. Hard core DX'ers
and contesters will scoff at a BWD-90 or my end-fed 80-10 at 6 ft on the
wooden fence, and I don't intend to make the Honor Roll with it, but
antennas don't need to be perfect to work and even work well. I snagged
VP6D on 40, 30, 20, and 17 CW with 100 W to my WOOF [Wire On Organic
Fence] and it was easy. The SOTA folk don't buy a tower, they just hike
up a mountain. I worked two DL's in a row on 15 CW a couple years ago
from W5N/RO-015 in SE NM with 10 W from my K2 into an Alexloop over my head.

If we want younger people to try out HF, we need to assure them that
they don't have to spend a year's take-home pay to get on and have fun.
Wayne has been relating some of his QRP-ish field adventures which is
really great. Full Disclosure: I'm part of the W7RN crew and have
remote access to the two remote K3/KPA1500 combos and 23 antenna
selections [last count [:-) w7rn.com] including a 3-el 80 yagi at 175
ft. Most of the time however, my K3/WOOF serves my needs which leaves
the remotes to those on the crew who have no other option. RF current
into a conductor will radiate, even if it's at eye level.

73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 12/5/2018 3:31 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:

> I have one of the BWD-90 antennas up now, (at 25 feet), and use it for
> local contacts on HF daily...
>
> DX is the vertical, soon to be a beam at 55 feet.... I also use the
> BWD-90 for all the WARC bands, save 30, which is the vertical.
>
> I also have a new in the box BWD-90, (copper version, not the steel
> version), as well...
>
> Works well with a K3, as the rig is atmospheric noise limited.
>
> 73s and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z/NNR0DC)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Technical Specialist
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL OOC for Oregon

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-3

Re: Less Than Perfect Antennas [was Flumoxed]

Perfect is the enemy of good enough.

73 -- Lynn

On 12/5/2018 4:42 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> It seems these days that the "Amateur media," which includes all of us
> conversing on the air or via email lists, tends to dismiss LTPA [less
> than perfect antennas] which may be discouraging some Technicians from
> trying out their HF allocations on 10, 15, 40, and 80. Hard core DX'ers
> and contesters will scoff at a BWD-90 or my end-fed 80-10 at 6 ft on the
> wooden fence, and I don't intend to make the Honor Roll with it, but
> antennas don't need to be perfect to work and even work well. I snagged
> VP6D on 40, 30, 20, and 17 CW with 100 W to my WOOF [Wire On Organic
> Fence] and it was easy. The SOTA folk don't buy a tower, they just hike
> up a mountain. I worked two DL's in a row on 15 CW a couple years ago
> from W5N/RO-015 in SE NM with 10 W from my K2 into an Alexloop over my
> head.
>
> If we want younger people to try out HF, we need to assure them that
> they don't have to spend a year's take-home pay to get on and have fun.
> Wayne has been relating some of his QRP-ish field adventures which is
> really great. Full Disclosure: I'm part of the W7RN crew and have
> remote access to the two remote K3/KPA1500 combos and 23 antenna
> selections [last count [:-) w7rn.com] including a 3-el 80 yagi at 175
> ft. Most of the time however, my K3/WOOF serves my needs which leaves
> the remotes to those on the crew who have no other option. RF current
> into a conductor will radiate, even if it's at eye level.
>
> 73,
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> On 12/5/2018 3:31 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:
>> I have one of the BWD-90 antennas up now, (at 25 feet), and use it for
>> local contacts on HF daily...
>>
>> DX is the vertical, soon to be a beam at 55 feet.... I also use the
>> BWD-90 for all the WARC bands, save 30, which is the vertical.
>>
>> I also have a new in the box BWD-90, (copper version, not the steel
>> version), as well...
>>
>> Works well with a K3, as the rig is atmospheric noise limited.
>>
>> 73s and thanks,
>> Dave (NK7Z/NNR0DC)
>> https://www.nk7z.net
>> ARRL Technical Specialist
>> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>> ARRL OOC for Oregon
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Ragsdale

Re: Less Than Perfect Antennas [was Flumoxed]

In reply to this post by k6dgw

What a great comment, Fred! We have a guy in our area that tells
everyone (including newcomers to the hobby) that G5RV antennas don't
work. Funny how I've sure worked a lot of folks that was using one.

73, Jim W5LA

On 12/05/18 6:42 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> If we want younger people to try out HF, we need to assure them that
> they don't have to spend a year's take-home pay to get on and have fun.

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Drew AF2Z

Re: Less Than Perfect Antennas [was Flumoxed]

In reply to this post by k6dgw

Likewise here for VP6D-- got them on all five bands of my indoor
'cobweb' antenna, 10m thru 20m, 100 watts CW.

73,
Drew
AF2Z

On 12/05/18 19:42, Fred Jensen wrote:

Cady, Fred-2

Re: Less Than Perfect Antennas [was Flumoxed]

In reply to this post by k6dgw

KE7X and VE3YT's new book "The Successful Ham Radio Operator's Handbook" has a chapter explaining antennas and antenna tuning and one devoted to simple wire antennas. See some details from the book at www.ke7x.com/successful<http://www.ke7x.com/successful>.

73,

Fred KE7X

________________________________
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Fred Jensen <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 5:42 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Less Than Perfect Antennas [was Flumoxed]

It seems these days that the "Amateur media," which includes all of us
conversing on the air or via email lists, tends to dismiss LTPA [less
than perfect antennas] which may be discouraging some Technicians from
trying out their HF allocations on 10, 15, 40, and 80. Hard core DX'ers
and contesters will scoff at a BWD-90 or my end-fed 80-10 at 6 ft on the
wooden fence, and I don't intend to make the Honor Roll with it, but
antennas don't need to be perfect to work and even work well. I snagged
VP6D on 40, 30, 20, and 17 CW with 100 W to my WOOF [Wire On Organic
Fence] and it was easy. The SOTA folk don't buy a tower, they just hike
up a mountain. I worked two DL's in a row on 15 CW a couple years ago
from W5N/RO-015 in SE NM with 10 W from my K2 into an Alexloop over my head.

If we want younger people to try out HF, we need to assure them that
they don't have to spend a year's take-home pay to get on and have fun.
Wayne has been relating some of his QRP-ish field adventures which is
really great. Full Disclosure: I'm part of the W7RN crew and have
remote access to the two remote K3/KPA1500 combos and 23 antenna
selections [last count [:-) w7rn.com] including a 3-el 80 yagi at 175
ft. Most of the time however, my K3/WOOF serves my needs which leaves
the remotes to those on the crew who have no other option. RF current
into a conductor will radiate, even if it's at eye level.

73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 12/5/2018 3:31 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:

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ANDY DURBIN

Less Than Perfect Antennas [was Flumoxed]

In reply to this post by k6dgw

"RF current into a conductor will radiate, even if it's at eye level."

Yes, I make this point to anyone interested in getting started on HF. I worked my first 50 or so countries with 100 W and a 20 m dipole at 20 ft agl in my attic. If you want an example of working DX with hopeless antennas it would be hard to beat my working VP6D on 160 m and 80 m. I used an OCF wire running round my back yard wall at 5 ft agl. It is matched by a MFJ 993BRT at the feed point and that limits me to 150 W. They must have had zero noise on the island.

Andy, k3wyc

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Don Wilhelm

Re: Less Than Perfect Antennas [was Flumoxed]

That statement is true - however ---
The problem is not radiation from the conductor, but how to get the RF
current into the conductor and not in other unintended places.

For those who want to build their own antennas, I suggest starting with
a resonant dipole fed in the center. That provides a good match for 50
ohm coax, and a good current mode choke (balun) at the feedpoint keeps
RF from flowing back onto the outer shield of the coax which can create
a lot of RF in the Shack.

Off Center Fed, and End Fed antennas can be made to work with more care.
The feedpoint impedance does not match coax, and special care must be
used to keep the RF on the radiator rather than coming back into the shack.
I realize that OCF and End-Fed non-resonant antennas are popular because
they can be used on multiple bands, but there are problems feeding them
while keeping the RF on the radiator and not in unintended places such
as the shack.

For those who want multiband operation, I still suggest a center fed
radiator fed with open wire or ladder-line to a good current mode choke
balun at transition point to coax is a better choice than OCF or end-fed
antennas - keep the coax short and use a tuner that can match the
resulting impedance.
Make the length of the dipole approximately the length of a half-wave at
the lowest operating frequency desired. It will be more "tame" for RF
in the Shack than many OCF or End-fed antennas.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/6/2018 8:56 AM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:
> "RF current into a conductor will radiate, even if it's at eye level."
>
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Frank Krozel

Elecraft XG-1 Manual?

Anyone have a pdf for the ELECRAFT XG-1?
de KG9H
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NK7Z

Re: Elecraft XG-1 Manual?

Check your direct email...

73s and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z/NNR0DC)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL OOC for Oregon

On 12/6/18 7:12 AM, Frank Krozel wrote:

> Anyone have a pdf for the ELECRAFT XG-1?
> de KG9H
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Less Than Perfect Antennas [was Flumoxed]

In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN

On 12/6/2018 5:56 AM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:
> Yes, I make this point to anyone interested in getting started on HF. I worked my first 50 or so countries with 100 W and a 20 m dipole at 20 ft agl in my attic.

Anyone who has seriously contested and analyzed their results will tell
you that 2dB can be the difference between making a QSO over a difficult
path or not. Some antennas are more efficient, or have better patterns
than others. High antennas radiate better than low ones. Big coax burns
less power than small coax. Some antenna tuners burn more power than
others.

I've worked 175 countries in about five years running 5W into very good
antennas. I wouldn't have done nearly as well loading a mediocre
antenna. Years ago, AC0C built a complex antenna system in his attic.
He's since bought property in the country and built a much better
antenna farm. When I got back on the air in 2003, it was with a dipole
running through my loft to my garage roof.

K6DGW's current HF antenna is a wire running along the top of a 6 ft
high wood fence that encloses the small backyard of his condo. Fred
drives it with a barefoot K3, and manages to make enough QSOs in
contests to have fun. Many years ago, N6BT wrote up his demonstration of
working all continents using a light bulb as an antenna. The article was
titled "Everything 'Works.'"

73, Jim K9YC

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Less Than Perfect Antennas [was Flumoxed]

For what appears to be a modest antenna installation, look at the
obtained results of KE4PT.   Where on QRZ.COM he writes;

""At home, my Icom706mkIIg pushes 100 W through a coax-coil + ferrite
current choke to an AH-4 automatic tuner unit at the bottom of a 4.3 m
tall, 14.6 m long dual element inverted L that is strung in the attic of
my one-story home [/QST/, Oct. 2007, pp 33-37]. The antenna covers 160 m
- 6 m. It's a modest station, but good enough for///WAS-TPA/,/WAC
[8-bands]/,/DXCC [225 cfm]/, and/6m-VUCC/, and to copy HAARP lunar
echoes on 6.7925 MHz with "/no visible means of antenna/". I'm always
looking for Asian stations hidden behind the Auroral "ion curtain". I
enjoy chasing DX. The extra 17 dB that CW has over SSB helps with my
modest station, so please look for me at the CW end of the HF bands!""

Yes, what appears as a modest antenna works, and becomes a good bit more
than modest when correctly designed, installed and operated as Kai,
KE4PT explains.   Wire antennas do work. They are the least expensive,
easiest to construct, easy to erect and they do work.   Yet many hams
seem to think there is some "magic" to many of the various designs. In
fact some of the commercial antenna designs are just "lousy" antennas.
   One often hears that "a bla bla is a great antenna". Well maybe so
to them, that is until they encounter a true great performing antenna.
And that great antenna is one which usually does not try to defy the
laws of physics.

Thus a basic 1/2 wave center fed wire, cut to the electrical length for
frequency/band of choice, and fed in the center with good quality low
loss 50 or 75 ohm coax and erected in the clear as possible and as high
as possible is one of the best performing simple and certainly not a
mediocre antennas.   Of course it is a single band antenna. Buy that
fact! I do suggest a 1:1 current balun at the feed point and unless the
coax feed is perpendicular to the antenna, a good common mode choke at
the station end of the coax is advised for resolving most Common Mode
Current issues. Common Mode Currents are not caused by SWR as some
seem to believe.

As I have the space, my antenna of choice is 250 ft of #10 THHN in the
air. {There is no need to strip off the insulation and a choice of
white makes it darn near invisible}. Otherwise, space lacking, one can
use a length that is about 1/2 wavelength at the lowest frequency one
desires to operate. 80/75M = 125 ft, 40M = 66 ft, 20M = 33 ft. etc. To
make it a multi-band antenna, change the feed line to 450 open wire, or
450 window line, or 300 ohm window transmitting line, and feed it with a
1:1 current balun and a wide range antenna tuner.   Just keep the coax
between the tuner and the balun as short as practical.   Mine happens to
be about 24 inches as I bring the balanced line from the antenna feed
point all the way to the balun and tuner at the operating position.   {A
balanced feed system is really easy to use and install and, not as about
99% of the hams will say, it is asking for trouble. Most that say this
have never actually used one but are only repeating what others have
said. I've used balanced feed on at least one or more antennas at every
station location of mine for the past 58 years.} My K3S ATU and/or my
KAT500 ATU will put this antenna on any frequency from 1.8 MHz to 52 MHz
with less than 1.3:1 SWR.

And I do agree with Kai, KE4PT that CW offers about a 12 dB advantage
over SSB.

73

Bob, K4TAX

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K8TE

Re: Flumoxed

In reply to this post by k6dgw

Good points in most cases on this subject except for the word "works". My
friend Alan, K0BG, insists this word is actually an acronym which I have
used in dozens of presentations: " WithOut Real Knowledge". This means
someone made one or more contacts (anecdotes) so this antenna "works." I
have used numerous antennas that "work". But, let's say on 40m, the big
beam at 145 ft. at VY2TT outperformed anything else I have ever used!

We demonstrated the difference between effective and far less effective
antennas during FD this year, in spite of S9+ noise on RX. Our A4 (3L on
20m and 15m) and 40m dipole at 40 ft. helped us make more contacts, often
four-to-five times as many, thAn other local FD groups, even the ones who
ran more rigs than we (single HF rig).

Also, my 40m dipole at 40 ft. works much better than many of the other local
antennas that "work." Read W8JI's perspective on an OCF dipole and note he
recommends an 80/20% split with a CURRENT BALUN. I use an end-fed wire with
a 9:1 transformer and counterpoise for SOTA when atop a mountain. When
others use a similar antenna at home, they often create RFI in their own
shacks, frequently distorting their SSB signals.

On the occasion when those antennas "work," they get great reports
("S7--great signal") in spite of 50% distortion. Another op in the same
town with a half-wave, center-fed dipole is likely much stronger with no RFI
in the audio. The problem--too few ops look into what's going on, give
accurate signal reports, or compare their shiny (short and pretty) antennas
against a dipole.

Yes, I've made HF contacts with a light bulb and yes there is a light bulb
contest on the horizon. But, I used my OCF and center-fed fan dipoles at 40
ft. to work VP6D on 160m-10m (excluding 60m), something which I likely would
not have done with my 33 ft. end-fed SOTA antenna.

73, Bill, K8TE

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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