Fw: RG-213 BNC connector

[Ken Kopp-2]

Yes, Amphenol makes a male BNC connector for RG-213-sized
cables.  I don't know the number and I'm away from my "stock"
so I can't give you the number.

On the matter of changing to Type "N" ... I also made the change
to "N"s a few years ago.  Yes, "N"s are more difficult to put on cable,
but they are more water resistant, by design they're easier to keep
tight ... and more importantly, of constant impedance.  SO-239's are
NOT 50-ohm connectors, and this can be very important in some
situations.

In a contest ... or VHF/UHF station ... every fraction of a db counts!
(:-))
You'll not get away with using SO-239's in a situation where impedance
is critical, as in a power divider, VHF/UHF bridge, etc.  In some cases,
a rule-of-thumb says that every '239 connection can cost you .5 db.

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
[hidden email]
or
[hidden email]


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[Michael Melland]

I won't argue that the N connector may be a better choice for any number of reasons, but don't rush out to change out a PL259 fearing excessive signal loss... a PL-259 isn't in any way (especially at HF) "High Loss"....

>From the Wirebook IV, pages 3.2 and 3.3....  Alan Bloom, N1AL, used an HP8753 RF network analyzer to compare losses of UHF vs. N connectors.

Both connectors measured 0 db loss up to 100 MHz.
At 150 MHz, the N has 0 db loss, the UHF has .01 db loss.
At 450 MHz, the N has 0 db loss, the UHF has .09 db loss.

Other studies show similar results ...
 
--
 
Michael Melland, W9WIS
Redgranite, WI USA
"Non Sibi Sed Patriae"
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[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

Yup, very true. At HF frequencies, loss is not the issue. (Even at 144 MHz
the loss is not significant if the connectors are mounted/installed
correctly. Above that, at UHF frequencies, things go downhill pretty fast.
That must be why they call 'em UHF connectors. Uh, yeah.)

The REAL problem with traditional PL-259 connectors (besides the need to
weatherproof, but you better weatherproof the N connectors just as well!) is
that they are oftentimes installed badly -- sometimes in such a manner that
they malfunction intermittently. This can cause all sorts of havoc. It
happened to me.

The PL-259s were on either end of a short RG-8/X jumper connecting my rig to
the antenna tuner, and (as I finally figured out) one of them would arc
short whenever the RF voltage reached a certain point. On SSB, that was on
voice peaks, of course. Whenever that would happen, the SWR would soar
instantly, the TX SWR protection circuit would cut in, and the peak would be
clipped off. Sounded just like a transmitter or mic connector problem. Took
me a month to finally swap out that coax jumper, after trying everything
else under the sun. Boy, was I embarrassed, as I had made the durn thing
myself! This is about the time I got deadly serious about learning how to do
these connectors right.

There is much lore, folk wisdom, and mythology about how to properly install
a PL-259 -- much of it bad -- but there is also a lot of really sound advice
out there on the web. I've had the best luck installing it exactly as the
manufacturer specifies. (Gee, imagine that!!) Complying with the specified
cut dimensions is especially important. But you need HEAT CAPACITY, and lots
of it. Other than outdoor water intrusion, the principle cause of PL-259
failure, indoors or out, is poor soldering, and this is often caused by
inadequate soldering iron power. Inadequate soldering iron power leads to
excessive time applying heat, which in turn causes heat to transfer
excessively to the vulnerable inner dielectric and outer jacket material.
You should be using a 100W iron (or larger) with a well-tinned chisel tip
that fits in the "notch" where the solder holes are. You want maximum
contact area. (Others have had good luck with other soldering tools, but
this is what has worked best for me.) I hold the connector body still in a
Vise-Grip, which pulls heat away from the shell of the connector where the
outer jacket contacts it. Solder the connector in the shortest time possible
consistent with correct results -- just long enough to get complete solder
flow with good concave fillets in the solder holes (no balls or blobs).
Quick, efficient soldering will minimize dielectric and jacket heating and
deforming. It is somehow counter-intuitive to many hams that in order to
minimize heat damage to the coax, you need to use more heat. But that's how
it works.  :-)

Bill W5WVO


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Melland" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fw: RG-213 BNC connector


> I won't argue that the N connector may be a better choice for any number
of reasons, but don't rush out to change out a PL259 fearing excessive
signal loss... a PL-259 isn't in any way (especially at HF) "High Loss"....
>
> >From the Wirebook IV, pages 3.2 and 3.3....  Alan Bloom, N1AL, used an
HP8753 RF network analyzer to compare losses of UHF vs. N connectors.

>
> Both connectors measured 0 db loss up to 100 MHz.
> At 150 MHz, the N has 0 db loss, the UHF has .01 db loss.
> At 450 MHz, the N has 0 db loss, the UHF has .09 db loss.
>
> Other studies show similar results ...
>
> --
>
> Michael Melland, W9WIS
> Redgranite, WI USA
> "Non Sibi Sed Patriae"
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
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>

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[Doug Person]

To solder PL-259's I use a propane torch.  I am able to get the body hot
enough quickly enough to flow the solder without over heating the coax.  
I use fairly thick solder.  I am able to completely fill the solder
holes which helps to ward off moisture getting in.  Some coax has a low
melting temperature and will be a problem.  Typically , this type of
coax is a problem even with a soldering gun or high-watt iron.

73, Doug -- K0DXV

Bill W5WVO wrote:

> Yup, very true. At HF frequencies, loss is not the issue. (Even at 144 MHz
> the loss is not significant if the connectors are mounted/installed
> correctly. Above that, at UHF frequencies, things go downhill pretty fast.
> That must be why they call 'em UHF connectors. Uh, yeah.)
>
> The REAL problem with traditional PL-259 connectors (besides the need to
> weatherproof, but you better weatherproof the N connectors just as well!) is
> that they are oftentimes installed badly -- sometimes in such a manner that
> they malfunction intermittently. This can cause all sorts of havoc. It
> happened to me.
>
> The PL-259s were on either end of a short RG-8/X jumper connecting my rig to
> the antenna tuner, and (as I finally figured out) one of them would arc
> short whenever the RF voltage reached a certain point. On SSB, that was on
> voice peaks, of course. Whenever that would happen, the SWR would soar
> instantly, the TX SWR protection circuit would cut in, and the peak would be
> clipped off. Sounded just like a transmitter or mic connector problem. Took
> me a month to finally swap out that coax jumper, after trying everything
> else under the sun. Boy, was I embarrassed, as I had made the durn thing
> myself! This is about the time I got deadly serious about learning how to do
> these connectors right.
>
> There is much lore, folk wisdom, and mythology about how to properly install
> a PL-259 -- much of it bad -- but there is also a lot of really sound advice
> out there on the web. I've had the best luck installing it exactly as the
> manufacturer specifies. (Gee, imagine that!!) Complying with the specified
> cut dimensions is especially important. But you need HEAT CAPACITY, and lots
> of it. Other than outdoor water intrusion, the principle cause of PL-259
> failure, indoors or out, is poor soldering, and this is often caused by
> inadequate soldering iron power. Inadequate soldering iron power leads to
> excessive time applying heat, which in turn causes heat to transfer
> excessively to the vulnerable inner dielectric and outer jacket material.
> You should be using a 100W iron (or larger) with a well-tinned chisel tip
> that fits in the "notch" where the solder holes are. You want maximum
> contact area. (Others have had good luck with other soldering tools, but
> this is what has worked best for me.) I hold the connector body still in a
> Vise-Grip, which pulls heat away from the shell of the connector where the
> outer jacket contacts it. Solder the connector in the shortest time possible
> consistent with correct results -- just long enough to get complete solder
> flow with good concave fillets in the solder holes (no balls or blobs).
> Quick, efficient soldering will minimize dielectric and jacket heating and
> deforming. It is somehow counter-intuitive to many hams that in order to
> minimize heat damage to the coax, you need to use more heat. But that's how
> it works.  :-)
>
> Bill W5WVO
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Melland" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 12:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fw: RG-213 BNC connector
>
>
>  
>> I won't argue that the N connector may be a better choice for any number
>>    
> of reasons, but don't rush out to change out a PL259 fearing excessive
> signal loss... a PL-259 isn't in any way (especially at HF) "High Loss"....
>  
>> >From the Wirebook IV, pages 3.2 and 3.3....  Alan Bloom, N1AL, used an
>>    
> HP8753 RF network analyzer to compare losses of UHF vs. N connectors.
>  
>> Both connectors measured 0 db loss up to 100 MHz.
>> At 150 MHz, the N has 0 db loss, the UHF has .01 db loss.
>> At 450 MHz, the N has 0 db loss, the UHF has .09 db loss.
>>
>> Other studies show similar results ...
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael Melland, W9WIS
>> Redgranite, WI USA
>> "Non Sibi Sed Patriae"
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Post to: [hidden email]
>> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>>
>>    
>
>
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>
>
>  

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[Ron D'Eau Claire-2]

My 50+ year old Weller 275 watt soldering gun does a great job on 259's, but
it's heavy and requires power.

For work on ships I use a butane-powered "Port-A-Sol" iron the size of a fat
pen with a built-in lighter. It closes up to fit in one's shirt pocket, a
valuable feature when one has to carry the tools up five or six decks then
climb a mast as well. That's a design from the late 1980's but they are
still around. (Note that I've never seen an "electric" portable iron that
get anywhere near as hot as the Port-A-Sol.)

When the freezing rain is soaking everything in sight one works the safety
strap holding you aloft so you can hang on the mast and hover over the
connector to keep it dry, then put on the tiny "torch" head. It'll melt coax
in an instant if mis-handled, but heats the shell quickly and efficiently to
provide an excellent solder joint.

Even so, the PL259 will leak water like a sieve around the joint where the
two halves are drawn together by the threaded coupling. The machining on the
mating faces is not smooth enough to provide a water-tight seal and, with
the expansion and contraction that will happen with temperature changes, I'd
never expect it to stay all that tight anyway.

Also, even though the soldering is perfect, the water can still migrate down
the coax into the connector where it'll find its way right through the mesh
of the shield where it exits the jacket inside the connector itself.

For added safety on a ship, especially where I don't want Capt'n Ahab coming
after me with a harpoon when they returned to port in a few months because
his radio quit, I always reverse direction on a coax feedline where I have
to have a connector out in the weather. That is, if the coax is coming down,
say, the side of a smokestack and I must put a connector in the system, I
turn the coax line 180 degrees so the it forms a "drip loop" just before the
connector and the connector itself runs up the mast again. Then after the
connector, I turn the coax back down to continue down the side of the stack
(mast, pole, or whatever the support). That way any water following the coax
outer sheath will drip off at the loop or run down the coax away from the
connector. Of course, in addition to that the connector gets a good layer of
coax seal as I described before. That alone will work, but a little extra
backup is never a bad idea.

Ron AC7AC



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Doug Person
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 7:31 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Soldering PL-259s (WAS: Fw: RG-213 BNC connector)


To solder PL-259's I use a propane torch.  I am able to get the body hot
enough quickly enough to flow the solder without over heating the coax.  
I use fairly thick solder.  I am able to completely fill the solder
holes which helps to ward off moisture getting in.  Some coax has a low
melting temperature and will be a problem.  Typically , this type of
coax is a problem even with a soldering gun or high-watt iron.

73, Doug -- K0DXV

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[David Cutter]

I have used an Antex plumber's electric soldering iron which grips the
barrel all the way around for very fast heating; the very large tips (grips)
hold a massive amount of heat.  The newer type with the top hat sleeve
inserted up inside the braid are quicker and easier and more certain,
leaving just the pin to solder.

I have found that sockets also fail: the socket loses its grip and becomes
intermittent.  This is poor product that starts at the manufacturer.

David
G3UNA

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[N2EY]

In a message dated 11/21/06 9:58:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:


> At HF frequencies, loss is not the issue. (Even at 144 MHz
> the loss is not significant if the connectors are mounted/installed
> correctly. Above that, at UHF frequencies, things go downhill pretty fast.
> That must be why they call 'em UHF connectors. Uh, yeah.)
>

Back when the UHC connector was invented, anyhting above 30 MHz was
considered "the ultrahighs".

73 de Jim, N2EY
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[Stuart Rohre]

If you have the 1950's style Weller or Wen Soldering guns that were about
100 watts, (some were more), you can take off the tips and use the shanks to
butt up to the PL 259 type UHF inner shell, when you solder the little holes
to the shield of the coax.

You should pretin the shield where the holes are going to be over that area,
to give something for the added solder wire to easily adhere to when it
reaches the plastic, (Eutectic) state.  Get both shanks onto the shell near
the hole you are soldering to rapidly heat up the shell.  Let the shell
/hole edge melt the solder.

Stuart
K5KVH


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[Tom McCulloch]

Hi Stuart,
 Thanks for the tip (no pun intended) on taking off the tips from the Weller
gun.  Does electrical continuity need to be made between the two shanks in
order for the gun to heat up?

Also does anyone know where to buy replacement tips for the Weller Gun
(actually mine is a radio Shack, but it looks the same).

Thanks
tom
wb2qdg
k2 1103


So two atoms were walking down the street, when one of them shouted, "Shoot,
I just lost an electron!"  "Are you sure?" the other one asked.  "Yes," he
replied. "I'm positive."

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart Rohre" <[hidden email]>
To: "Bill W5WVO" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Soldering PL-259s (WAS: Fw: RG-213 BNC connector)

> If you have the 1950's style Weller or Wen Soldering guns that were about
> 100 watts, (some were more), you can take off the tips and use the shanks
> to butt up to the PL 259 type UHF inner shell, when you solder the little
> holes to the shield of the coax.
>
> You should pretin the shield where the holes are going to be over that
> area, to give something for the added solder wire to easily adhere to when
> it reaches the plastic, (Eutectic) state.  Get both shanks onto the shell
> near the hole you are soldering to rapidly heat up the shell.  Let the
> shell /hole edge melt the solder.
>
> Stuart
> K5KVH
>
> _______________________________________________
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[Bob Nielsen]

The continuity is made by the connector body shorting between the two  
shanks of the gun.  The connector is heated by the current flowing  
through it (P=I²R).  I found replacement tips for my ~50-year old  
Weller gun at Radio Shack about 5 years ago.

Bob, N7XY

On Nov 23, 2006, at 8:39 AM, Tom McCulloch wrote:

> Hi Stuart,
> Thanks for the tip (no pun intended) on taking off the tips from  
> the Weller gun.  Does electrical continuity need to be made between  
> the two shanks in order for the gun to heat up?
>
> Also does anyone know where to buy replacement tips for the Weller  
> Gun (actually mine is a radio Shack, but it looks the same).
>
> Thanks
> tom
> wb2qdg
> k2 1103
>
>
> So two atoms were walking down the street, when one of them  
> shouted, "Shoot, I just lost an electron!"  "Are you sure?" the  
> other one asked.  "Yes," he replied. "I'm positive."
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Rohre"  
> <[hidden email]>
> To: "Bill W5WVO" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 4:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Soldering PL-259s (WAS: Fw: RG-213 BNC  
> connector)
>
>
>> If you have the 1950's style Weller or Wen Soldering guns that  
>> were about 100 watts, (some were more), you can take off the tips  
>> and use the shanks to butt up to the PL 259 type UHF inner shell,  
>> when you solder the little holes to the shield of the coax.
>>
>> You should pretin the shield where the holes are going to be over  
>> that area, to give something for the added solder wire to easily  
>> adhere to when it reaches the plastic, (Eutectic) state.  Get both  
>> shanks onto the shell near the hole you are soldering to rapidly  
>> heat up the shell.  Let the shell /hole edge melt the solder.
>>
>> Stuart
>> K5KVH
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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[Ken Kopp-2]

For years I've only used solid copper wire for the tips.  There's
nothing "special" about Weller's tips, other than being made from
sorta-square wire and with a molded tip.

Wire sizes of #14 through #10 are appropiate, depending on the
wattage of the gun.  If you don't have suitable sizes in your wire
bin, purchase a couple of feet of TW house wire at a hardware
or "big-box" store and remove the insulation.  A few minutes with
wire cutters and (sturdy) long-nose pliers and you'll have a stock
of tips.  I form mine in the shape of a "V".  There's no reason for
the offset shape, other than accomoite the pattern of the lamp.

Another tip;  If you have a two-heat gun, open one side of the
case and reverse the two wires on the switch.  This will, of course,
reverse the high and low heat positions of the switch and will make
the fully-pulled switch position your normal one.

Forget trying to keep the light working!  It's a notorious short-coming
of Weller guns. (;-(

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP

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[Ken Kopp-2]

I use a hand-held taper reamer and enlarge the four
solder holes until they're as large as the space between
the shoulders.  This will allow your iron's tip to make
better heat transfer contact with the braid.

Another suggestion;  Lightly tin the braid and then trim
it to length with a tubing cutter as you would if you were
cutting copper tubing.  The free end of the braid is then
removed by cutting it away with sharp wire cutters or a
box knife.  Leave about 1/16" of inner insulation exposed
beyond the end of the tinned braid.

A touch of silicone grease will make screwing the
connector body onto the coax's insulation easier.

I wish I could attach photos.  I do hamfest talks about
installing the various kinds and sizes of coax connectors
and have a set of step-by-step photos that really make
it easy to show how it's done.

The matter of the reducers for RG-58 and RG-59 is
another part of my talks.  There are a number of ways
to do this ... some good and MANY bad.

BTW, if it's not obvious, keep soldering guns away from
"sensitive" electronics, IC's, etc.  The electric field around
the tip is very strong!  Great for de-magnetizing tools, drill
bits, etc., though.

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
[hidden email]
or
[hidden email]


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[Jack Smith-6]

I stopped soldering connectors quite a few years ago and have gone to
crimp connections. Properly done, a crimp connection will make a
gas-tight seal and will be at least as reliable as a soldered
connection. It takes a bit less time than soldering and you don't have
to worry about melting the center conductor insulation (a real problem
with RG-174). Plus, if you are out in the backyard, you don't have to
run a long extension cord or use a butane-powered soldering iron to
install a connector.

Some connectors I use, such as the bulkhead SMA female cablejacks that
are part of the Z10000 buffer amplifier kit,  require soldering the
center conductor, but the shield is crimped.

For PL259-style connectors, both the center pin and shell can be
crimped, along with some BNCs and N connectors. Others are center-pin
solder, shell crimp design.

In crimping the connector, it's critical that the tool used have the
correct die dimension and that you have stripped the shell and center
conductor to the manufacturer-specified length.

I did 150 crimp connections of rather small cable (some RG174 and some
Teflon coax that makes RG174 look large) recently and had one bad
connection, which was due to my error putting the connector into the
wrong die in the crimping tool.

I paid about $100 for my ratcheting-type crimping tool and two extra die
sets, but I see imported knock-offs with full die sets for a fraction of
that price now.


Jack K8ZOA
www.cliftonlaboratories.com

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