Fwd: Re: Solder in Elecraft kits

[Marty Young]

Dear Mr. Brown:

> Is this guy serious?  I know hams are cheap, but
> this takes the cake!

Yes, I was serious.  If you disagree, rather than
insult me, why not make an intelligent argument to the
contrary?  Many others did.

After ordering my first Elecraft kit and reading the
hoards of material on the importance of soldering, I
thought (I regret now publicly) why not just put
solder in the kit? (Like Heathkit used to do.)

You have to draw the line somewhere, I thought I made
a pretty cogent argument to draw the line just a
little further north to include solder.  Where did you
get the idea I wanted something for nothing?

Don't worry about responding to me on this list.  I'm
unsubscribing right after I post this.  (I'm sure the
moderator will kill it anyway)

Between this and the other responses to my (what I
feel was) inconsequential babbling about solder I will
exercise my right to turn this reflector's on/off knob
fully CCW.

If I have any problem with my kit, I'll call Elecraft
on the phone.  If I make a mistake, I'm sure they will
be more gracious.  Goodbye.

Marty Young / W4MY

--- Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Elecraft List" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:29:56 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Solder in Elecraft kits
>
> Is this guy serious?  I know hams are cheap, but
> this takes the
> cake! Next he's gonna want dikes, needlenose, a
> magnifier, and a
> soldering iron!
>
> 73,
>
> Jim Brown K9YC
>
>
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[Jim Brown-10]

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:09:32 -0700 (PDT), Marty Young wrote:

>Yes, I was serious.  If you disagree, rather than
>insult me, why not make an intelligent argument to the
>contrary?  Many others did.

OK, I will. I've been a ham for




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[Jim Brown-10]

>Yes, I was serious.  If you disagree, rather than
>insult me, why not make an intelligent argument to the
>contrary?  Many others did.

OK, I will. This is not a personal attack, it is a
statement of philosophy. Notice that I took names off this
post and the previous one.

 I've been a ham for 52 years. One of the first things I
bought was a soldering iron and solder. In the years
since, I don't think I've ever been without either. Yeah,
I know ham radio has changed, and it isn't about building
things, or wiring things, or fixing things, or testing
things, or even understanding things. It's about buying
radios, and convincing oneself that the radio one has
purchased is the best, and don't bother me with logic.
Heck, guys are even buying coax cables pre-made, and the
cables that connect radios to computers are selling for
$25 on EBay!

I'm sorry if you or anyone else is offended, but to me, a
ham without solder and soldering iron is indistinguishable
from a CBer. Obviously, that thought doesn't apply to
those who because of disability cannot solder. But one of
my ham buddies when I was a kid was totally blind. That
didn't prevent him from soldering, or from climbing on his
roof. So that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

73,

Jim Brown K9YC


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[Ken Kopp]

Marty,

You're "cutting off your nose to spite your face",
so goes an old saying.

So someone was maybe less-than-kind in their reply.
Happens sometimes ...

There's a HUGE resirvoir of information and folks eager
to help available for the asking on the reflector.  

Someone DID give a reasonable reply to your question.
With the new EU rules that apply to solder it would be
diffucult to sent the "correct" solder with each kit based
on where the kit was destined, to say nothing of the
personal preferences we all have about solder types
and sizes.

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
[hidden email]

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[Tom McCulloch]

I haven't been following this thread, but the poster seems to make a valid
point.

I built K2 #1103 several years ago and the thinking at that time was to use
an alloy of silver solder.  So that's what I did.  Once my kit was built I
more or less ignored the posts regarding solder, but about a year or so ago
(I could be wrong here) I thought I read that using silver solder was a bad
idea.

OK, so things change, my K2 was built, life goes on.

I believe the poster's point here is that he wanted to use the 'correct'
type of solder (i.e. that which is currently thought to be appropriate for
the Elecraft kits) and who better than the Elecraft guys to make that call
(or at the very least the recommendation).  If they provided a small supply
of that type of solder with the kits, the builder could try it out and
decide for himself if that was they he wanted to guy and then purchase a
pound.

Just my two cents.
Tom
WB2QDG
K2 1103 ('silver on the inside')


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[AC7AC]

CONTENTS DELETED

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[Don Wilhelm-3]

Tom,

There is no one universally 'good' solder.  Each builder has what is
familiar to him and has worked well in the past.  I offer my own best
explanations below:

I do know of one expert builder who uses .031 diameter solder for
everything, including SMD construction - but he is an exception, I
certainly could not properly control the solder amount on SMD if I used
that diameter.  I personally choose .015 for thru-hole work and .010
inch for SMD because I can control the feed rate, so that is what I
recommend only because I have found it easy to work with.

Also I like the 63/37 alloy better than the 60/40 alloy.  It has no
plastic state and has a much better chance of eliminating 'cold solder'
connections that can result from movement of the connection while the
solder is cooling.

I do not clean my soldered boards, but I like them to not have a heavy
flux buildup - flux usually does not hurt, but it just looks messy IMHO.
  So I use a mildly activated rosin core solder.  A more active rosin
core is not needed when using fresh components that have not yet
developed a significant amount of oxidation.

So if you like my reasons, you would choose something similar to Kester
285 flux in a 63/37 alloy and a diameter of either .015 or .020 for
construction of Elecraft kits - I actually prefer MultiCore solder
because it wets easier than Kester, but is not as readily available.  If
you have good experience with something else, it is not wrong as long as
it does not have a flux that will void the warranty.

That being said, I can add one more thing - I simply hate doing rework
on a kit that has been soldered with one of the lead-free solders.
There is really nothing 'wrong' with it, but it certainly makes rework
very difficult because it does not conduct heat very well and requires
higher temperatures than the lead based solders.

If you have good experience with one solder and know its characteristics
and can produce good results, there is no reason to change - but if you
are new to soldering and have to ask which is 'best', I can only give
you what works best for me - others may have great success with
something different because their technique is different - you must
develop your own techniques and in the process you will discover what
works best for you.  If you do not know what a good solder connection
looks like, I encourage you to read the soldering tutorial on the
Elecraft website, it has several good illustrations.

73,
Don W3FPR

Tom McCulloch wrote:
> I haven't been following this thread, but the poster seems to make a
> valid point.
>
> I built K2 #1103 several years ago and the thinking at that time was to
> use an alloy of silver solder.  So that's what I did.  Once my kit was
> built I more or less ignored the posts regarding solder, but about a
> year or so ago (I could be wrong here) I thought I read that using
> silver solder was a bad idea.
>
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