Elecraft

GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY

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Brian McInerney

GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY

I usually don’t comment on these types of forums, and invariably someone
will find fault with your comments and take you to task. However; in spite
of that I feel burden to share the following perspectives with this group.

I have had 69 years of experience, many levels of electronic maintenance,
from vacuum type electronics, in the 1950 through large scale integration
using computers and digital logic. Through this time the following has
happened to me.

1. I have seen the following go out of business – Heathkit, Collins, Drake,
and many others. As companies grew larger, they forgot their roots and those
things which made their product so great.

2. I have IC 821 that was a great radio. Company after 6 years has
decided not to support the radio can’t get parts. Solution: Throw it way and
buy another radio. The same manufacture has decided not to sell another
produce last year because they new they had a lot of field problems because
of the complaints of the customer. Their solution was to not support the
radio any more. I ask you is that customer service ? We all now the answer.

3. Some manufactures have proprietary hardware chips and software. When you
have problems and they have chosen at the corporate level not to support or
move support services overseas to off shore companies, what happens. We have
all had this happen to us with some computer companies. It is ex-asperating.

I could go on, on and on, so here is my point. Elecraft Company is doing it
right. Bring jobs back from over seas back to USA. Designing a great
product. It appears they won’t leave you in the dark. Your support and
further purchases depend on your satisfaction. So lets continue to help
support in all ways to make this company stay in business.

Brian Mc Inerney
WB8IDY
CF 989-859-9374

--
Brian McInerney WB8IDY
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george fritkin

Re: GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY

Brian, I will only take a small issue with you. I agree we should support
any company that brings good, cost effective products to the HAM market. And
yes the company should support these products for a reasonable period of time.
But as soon as these products become non competitive, just because they are
from a "US" company, does not mean we should buy their products.

George, W6GF

________________________________
From: Brian McInerney <[hidden email]>
To:
Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 1:28:45 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY

I usually don’t comment on these types of forums, and invariably someone
will find fault with your comments and take you to task. However; in spite
of that I feel burden to share the following perspectives with this group.

I have had 69 years of experience, many levels of electronic maintenance,
from vacuum type electronics, in the 1950 through large scale integration
using computers and digital logic. Through this time the following has
happened to me.

1. I have seen the following go out of business – Heathkit, Collins, Drake,
and many others. As companies grew larger, they forgot their roots and those
things which made their product so great.

2. I have IC 821 that was a great radio. Company after 6 years has
decided not to support the radio can’t get parts. Solution: Throw it way and
buy another radio. The same manufacture has decided not to sell another
produce last year because they new they had a lot of field problems because
of the complaints of the customer. Their solution was to not support the
radio any more. I ask you is that customer service ? We all now the answer.

3. Some manufactures have proprietary hardware chips and software. When you
have problems and they have chosen at the corporate level not to support or
move support services overseas to off shore companies, what happens. We have
all had this happen to us with some computer companies. It is ex-asperating.

I could go on, on and on, so here is my point. Elecraft Company is doing it
right. Bring jobs back from over seas back to USA. Designing a great
product. It appears they won’t leave you in the dark. Your support and
further purchases depend on your satisfaction. So lets continue to help
support in all ways to make this company stay in business.

Brian Mc Inerney
WB8IDY
CF 989-859-9374

--
Brian McInerney WB8IDY
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Bruce McLaughlin-2

Re: GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY

In reply to this post by Brian McInerney

I couldn't agree with you more strongly.

Bruce - W8FU

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Brian McInerney
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 4:29 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY

I usually don't comment on these types of forums, and invariably someone
will find fault with your comments and take you to task. However; in spite
of that I feel burden to share the following perspectives with this group.

I have had 69 years of experience, many levels of electronic maintenance,
from vacuum type electronics, in the 1950 through large scale integration
using computers and digital logic. Through this time the following has
happened to me.

1. I have seen the following go out of business - Heathkit, Collins, Drake,
and many others. As companies grew larger, they forgot their roots and those
things which made their product so great.

2. I have IC 821 that was a great radio. Company after 6 years has
decided not to support the radio can't get parts. Solution: Throw it way and
buy another radio. The same manufacture has decided not to sell another
produce last year because they new they had a lot of field problems because
of the complaints of the customer. Their solution was to not support the
radio any more. I ask you is that customer service ? We all now the answer.

3. Some manufactures have proprietary hardware chips and software. When you
have problems and they have chosen at the corporate level not to support or
move support services overseas to off shore companies, what happens. We have
all had this happen to us with some computer companies. It is ex-asperating.

I could go on, on and on, so here is my point. Elecraft Company is doing it
right. Bring jobs back from over seas back to USA. Designing a great
product. It appears they won't leave you in the dark. Your support and
further purchases depend on your satisfaction. So lets continue to help
support in all ways to make this company stay in business.

Brian Mc Inerney
WB8IDY
CF 989-859-9374

--
Brian McInerney WB8IDY
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k6rb

Re: GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY

In reply to this post by Brian McInerney

I don't disagree with Brian's plaudits for Elecraft's focus on customer
service but that wasn't the primary reason that the companies he sited
went out of business. In a book entitled "The Innovator's Dilemma," the
author showed that large companies get caught when technologies change.
Heath, Drake, Collins and others were leaders before solid-state
technology advanced. They were simply not quick enough on their feet to
make the switch to solid state that allowed Yaesu, Icom and Kenwood to eat
their lunch. And, now, that software-defined radio has moved from
edge-of-the-art to state-of-the-art, those companies are being surpassed
as leaders by companies like Elecraft. Historically, leaders in one
technology are not able to make the leap as quickly as new innovators who
don't have the legacy baggage to drag behind them. IBM led in mainframes,
but DEC and HP led in minicomputers, and so on. Nokia led in cell phones,
but is having its lunch eaten by Apple, HTC, LG and Samsung in
smartphones. Customer service is just one part of the complex reasons why
new leaders emerge.

Rob K6RB

> I usually dont comment on these types of forums, and invariably someone
> will find fault with your comments and take you to task. However; in spite
> of that I feel burden to share the following perspectives with this group.
>
> I have had 69 years of experience, many levels of electronic maintenance,
> from vacuum type electronics, in the 1950 through large scale integration
> using computers and digital logic. Through this time the following has
> happened to me.
>
> 1. I have seen the following go out of business Heathkit, Collins,
> Drake,
> and many others. As companies grew larger, they forgot their roots and
> those
> things which made their product so great.
>
> 2. I have IC 821 that was a great radio. Company after 6 years has
> decided not to support the radio cant get parts. Solution: Throw it way
> and
> buy another radio. The same manufacture has decided not to sell another
> produce last year because they new they had a lot of field problems
> because
> of the complaints of the customer. Their solution was to not support the
> radio any more. I ask you is that customer service ? We all now the
> answer.
>
> 3. Some manufactures have proprietary hardware chips and software. When
> you
> have problems and they have chosen at the corporate level not to support
> or
> move support services overseas to off shore companies, what happens. We
> have
> all had this happen to us with some computer companies. It is
> ex-asperating.
>
>
> I could go on, on and on, so here is my point. Elecraft Company is doing
> it
> right. Bring jobs back from over seas back to USA. Designing a great
> product. It appears they wont leave you in the dark. Your support and
> further purchases depend on your satisfaction. So lets continue to help
> support in all ways to make this company stay in business.
>
> Brian Mc Inerney
> WB8IDY
> CF 989-859-9374
>
>
> --
> Brian McInerney WB8IDY
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

______________________________________________________________
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K6LMP

Re: GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY

I wasn't active in ham radio at the time of Heathkit's demise, so I don't know what they were doing or not doing in the ham radio arena, but they certainly were't lacking for expertise in solid-state electronics. I built their AR-15 stereo radio kit while I was on a Navy ammunition ship in Vietnam, and later built their H-89 computer, which was "state of the art" at the time, albeit primitive by today's standards. These were very well-designed solid state products. Heathkit had many others, including an excellent color TV that had only one vacuum tube in it - the picture tube. I know they had solid state ham products, such as a two meter amplifier. I have no idea how they stacked up to the competition in terms of quality and value. However, since they were truly leading edge with solid state hi-fi and computer kits, among other things, I am puzzled by the assertion that Heathkit was not able to move from the vacuum tube era to solid state products.

Lew K6LMP

On Jan 7, 2011, at 1:44 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

Alan Bloom

Re: GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY

In reply to this post by k6rb

I believe Heath and Drake had the first two synthesized HF amateur
transceivers on the market. (SB-104 and TR-7) And both had solid-state
gear before that. I don't think their problems were being late adopting
new technology.

IMO Heathkit went belly-up because of poor execution on a number of
their designs. The SB-104 for example had multiple issues (horrible
birdies, poor sensitivity, poor dynamic range, intermittent
oscillations, etc.)

The reports of Drake's death are greatly exaggerated. Although they no
longer manufacture ham equipment the company is alive and well.

Al N1AL

On Fri, 2011-01-07 at 13:44 -0800, [hidden email] wrote:

> I don't disagree with Brian's plaudits for Elecraft's focus on customer
> service but that wasn't the primary reason that the companies he sited
> went out of business. In a book entitled "The Innovator's Dilemma," the
> author showed that large companies get caught when technologies change.
> Heath, Drake, Collins and others were leaders before solid-state
> technology advanced. They were simply not quick enough on their feet to
> make the switch to solid state that allowed Yaesu, Icom and Kenwood to eat
> their lunch. And, now, that software-defined radio has moved from
> edge-of-the-art to state-of-the-art, those companies are being surpassed
> as leaders by companies like Elecraft. Historically, leaders in one
> technology are not able to make the leap as quickly as new innovators who
> don't have the legacy baggage to drag behind them. IBM led in mainframes,
> but DEC and HP led in minicomputers, and so on. Nokia led in cell phones,
> but is having its lunch eaten by Apple, HTC, LG and Samsung in
> smartphones. Customer service is just one part of the complex reasons why
> new leaders emerge.
>
> Rob K6RB
>
> > I usually dont comment on these types of forums, and invariably someone
> > will find fault with your comments and take you to task. However; in spite
> > of that I feel burden to share the following perspectives with this group.
> >
> > I have had 69 years of experience, many levels of electronic maintenance,
> > from vacuum type electronics, in the 1950 through large scale integration
> > using computers and digital logic. Through this time the following has
> > happened to me.
> >
> > 1. I have seen the following go out of business Heathkit, Collins,
> > Drake,
> > and many others. As companies grew larger, they forgot their roots and
> > those
> > things which made their product so great.
> >
> > 2. I have IC 821 that was a great radio. Company after 6 years has
> > decided not to support the radio cant get parts. Solution: Throw it way
> > and
> > buy another radio. The same manufacture has decided not to sell another
> > produce last year because they new they had a lot of field problems
> > because
> > of the complaints of the customer. Their solution was to not support the
> > radio any more. I ask you is that customer service ? We all now the
> > answer.
> >
> > 3. Some manufactures have proprietary hardware chips and software. When
> > you
> > have problems and they have chosen at the corporate level not to support
> > or
> > move support services overseas to off shore companies, what happens. We
> > have
> > all had this happen to us with some computer companies. It is
> > ex-asperating.
> >
> >
> > I could go on, on and on, so here is my point. Elecraft Company is doing
> > it
> > right. Bring jobs back from over seas back to USA. Designing a great
> > product. It appears they wont leave you in the dark. Your support and
> > further purchases depend on your satisfaction. So lets continue to help
> > support in all ways to make this company stay in business.
> >
> > Brian Mc Inerney
> > WB8IDY
> > CF 989-859-9374
> >
> >
> > --
> > Brian McInerney WB8IDY
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Nate Bargmann

Re: GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY

In reply to this post by K6LMP

What killed Heathkit was that the Big Three were able to bring products
to market that were cheaper and had more features due to mass production
and, in the case of Kenwood, had a contempary and stylish product.
Heath did not catch up until the early '80s and by then it was too late.
To a prospectvie ham (me) looking at a Heathkit catalog from late
1980/early 1981 and seeing their ham offering that had (at least to me)
an early '60s styling to it caused me to look elsewhere until they
introduced an up-to-date kit in 1982 or so. That said, I did build an
HW-8. But the TS-520/820/530/830 models were certainly attractive to
me.

Also, the Big Three owned the VHF FM market early on due to frequency
synthesis and memories in a small (for the time) attractive enclosure.
Even in performance oriented amateur radio styling plays a part.

73, de Nate N0NB >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html
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Colin VE3MSC

XV smokin' hot

I've built up all 3 XVs, and find the 432 the hottest of the bunch.
What are you doing to manage the heat ? My output power drops and
the case hits over 60C / 140F if I run for a minute at about
10W. (Attenuator not a factor as driving at low level).
VE3MSC Colin

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M0XDF

Re: GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY

In reply to this post by Nate Bargmann

You could say the same of me and Elecraft - I new of Elecraft's reputation and many of my club friends have K2s, but I was not happy about the looks and display of the K2 (ok, so I know better now).
I was about to buy an FT-2000 when the K3 was announced - that was it for me - I put the money into the K2 on 2nd May 2007, one of the first buyers and I paid for a fully loaded K3 up front - I'm very glad I did (but it was a long wait :-)
73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108
--
Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is
writing a book. -Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator and writer
(106-43 BC)

On 7 Jan 2011, at 22:54, Nate Bargmann wrote:

> What killed Heathkit was that the Big Three were able to bring products
> to market that were cheaper and had more features due to mass production
> and, in the case of Kenwood, had a contempary and stylish product.
> Heath did not catch up until the early '80s and by then it was too late.
> To a prospectvie ham (me) looking at a Heathkit catalog from late
> 1980/early 1981 and seeing their ham offering that had (at least to me)
> an early '60s styling to it caused me to look elsewhere until they
> introduced an up-to-date kit in 1982 or so. That said, I did build an
> HW-8. But the TS-520/820/530/830 models were certainly attractive to
> me.
>
> Also, the Big Three owned the VHF FM market early on due to frequency
> synthesis and memories in a small (for the time) attractive enclosure.
> Even in performance oriented amateur radio styling plays a part.

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: XV smokin' hot

In reply to this post by Colin VE3MSC

Colin,

It should not get that hot that fast.
Do you have the fan installed the right way around? Is the fan
running? Is the bias for the power module correct? - your DMM may read
0.02 volts or 0.020 volts depending on the number of digits it displays.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/7/2011 6:25 PM, Colin VE3MSC wrote:
> I've built up all 3 XVs, and find the 432 the hottest of the bunch.
> What are you doing to manage the heat ? My output power drops and
> the case hits over 60C / 140F if I run for a minute at about
> 10W. (Attenuator not a factor as driving at low level).
> VE3MSC Colin
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N5GE

Re: XV smokin' hot

In reply to this post by Colin VE3MSC

Colin,

I have one of those and mine never gets that hot. Are you sure the fan is
working correctly? Are the openings for the fan clear of obstructions?

73,

Tom Childers
Radio Amateur N5GE
Licensed since 1976
QCWA Life Member 35102
ARRL Life Member
Retired Professional
C# Software developer
http://www.n5ge.net

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 18:25:02 -0500, Colin VE3MSC <[hidden email]> wrote:

>I've built up all 3 XVs, and find the 432 the hottest of the bunch.
>What are you doing to manage the heat ? My output power drops and
>the case hits over 60C / 140F if I run for a minute at about
>10W. (Attenuator not a factor as driving at low level).
>VE3MSC Colin
>
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

Colin VE3MSC

Re: XV smokin' hot

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

At 07:20 PM 2011-01-07, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>It should not get that hot that fast.
>Do you have the fan installed the right way around?
>Is the fan running?

Its pulling air up from the bottom, and blowing air up. It comes out
the holes above the attenuator resistors.

> Is the bias for the power module correct? - your DMM may read
> 0.02 volts or 0.020 volts depending on the number of digits it displays.

It was running way hot at a bias of 0.0200, and I slightly increased
it and subsequently got more output and less heat. The manual said
to look for 3-5V on VGG, and I'm only seeing about 2.25 (at bias
0.02) and 2.4 at my current bias level.
The current consumption is less than 4A at about 13.6V.
I should mention am running it continuous (1min on/off) (not SSB) as
I do a lot of digital work.

>On 1/7/2011 6:25 PM, Colin VE3MSC wrote:
>>I've built up all 3 XVs, and find the 432 the hottest of the bunch.
>>What are you doing to manage the heat ? My output power drops and
>>the case hits over 60C / 140F if I run for a minute at about
>>10W. (Attenuator not a factor as driving at low level).
>>VE3MSC Colin

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Colin VE3MSC

Re: XV smokin' hot - no longer

In reply to this post by N5GE

Good news - I replaced the thermal pad between heat spreader and case
with good old Thermalcote heatsink goo, and it made a huge
difference. Case heats up right away and things cool off fast after
TX. Did a lot of checking before lunch, all good. Then I went for a break.

Bad news - U6 failed when I powered up again for final checkout
before taking it off bench and hooking to rig. Zero output. Quick
check showed nothing getting past SGA7489. It just died. Am wondering
if this device was on its way out while I was testing, might explain
power drops. I've ordered replacements from Digi-Key.

Thanks for the input from several of you off list.
73 VE3MSC
Colin

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