H mode mixer

[Julius Fazekas n2wn]

Geoff & Gian,

To play devil's advocate (I'm decent in this role), if
the H-mode mixers is as simple and as effective as you
both suggest. Why hasn't it been more widely adopted?

For the most part, I've seen a couple mixers boards
and mostly references to homebrew building, but
nothing in the way of kits or commercially offered
radios.

Considering how difficult the 40M situation is in
Europe, and how large the ham population is, certainly
one would think that someone would have championed the
technology by now...

Any thoughts on this?

Cheers,

Julius
n2wn
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[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy-2]

Hi Julius,

It might have something to do with Intellectual Title, but not being well
versed in such matters I could well be wrong. I have read very recently that
the H-Mode is being used in a new receiver for military use, and I know that
Rhode & Schwarz use a very similar mixer in one of their "Professional"
receivers designed during the mid or late 1990s - I would have to look up
the model. Perhaps the differences in the R&S mixer are sufficient to
prevent legal problems. I have asked myself the same question as yours
because the original H-Mode design appeared at least 15 years ago and has
been "maturing" ever since, and without any doubt is a high class performer.

In the European amateur press the H-Mode has received good coverage which
includes the publication of rceiver designs in which the mixer is used. The
ARRL Hanbook 2001 includes a description of the "Triad" receiver, a relative
of the receiver in the CDG2000, the latter was offered as a kit if memory
serves me right.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD


Julius N2WN wrote:

> Geoff & Gian,
>
> To play devil's advocate (I'm decent in this role), if
> the H-mode mixers is as simple and as effective as you
> both suggest. Why hasn't it been more widely adopted?
>
> For the most part, I've seen a couple mixers boards
> and mostly references to homebrew building, but
> nothing in the way of kits or commercially offered
> radios.
>
> Considering how difficult the 40M situation is in
> Europe, and how large the ham population is, certainly
> one would think that someone would have championed the
> technology by now...
>
> Any thoughts on this?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Julius
> n2wn

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[I7SWX]

Hi Julius and Geoff and all.....

Thanks again for your notes. I hope to be clear on all
of them.

I will reply to both Geoff and Julius notes and these
will match Geoff comments/questions (I hope).

--- Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Julius,
>
> It might have something to do with Intellectual
> Title, but not being well
> versed in such matters I could well be wrong. I have
> read very recently that
> the H-Mode is being used in a new receiver for
> military use, and I know that
> Rhode & Schwarz use a very similar mixer in one of
> their "Professional"
> receivers designed during the mid or late 1990s - I
> would have to look up
> the model. Perhaps the differences in the R&S mixer
> are sufficient to
> prevent legal problems.

NO, that is not an H-Mode Mixer althought it was a
simple switched single balanced demodulator using
CD4066.

> I have asked myself the same
> question as yours
> because the original H-Mode design appeared at least
> 15 years ago and has
> been "maturing" ever since, and without any doubt is
> a high class performer.
>
> In the European amateur press the H-Mode has
> received good coverage which
> includes the publication of rceiver designs in which
> the mixer is used. The
> ARRL Hanbook 2001 includes a description of the
> "Triad" receiver, a relative
> of the receiver in the CDG2000, the latter was
> offered as a kit if memory
> serves me right.

The H-Mode Mixer (3 transformers) using both SD5000
and FST3125, referred to the TRIAD (W7AAZ, W4ZCB and
G3SBI) is reported in the ARRL Book EMRF Design.

>
> 73,
> Geoff
> GM4ESD
>
>
> Julius N2WN wrote:
>
>
> > Geoff & Gian,
> >
> > To play devil's advocate (I'm decent in this
> role), if
> > the H-mode mixers is as simple and as effective as
> you
> > both suggest. Why hasn't it been more widely
> adopted?

Good to know you are an "advocate" ... I may have to
use your services if some friends may blow-up their
equipments when volunteering on Mixers mods...hi

The answer maybe simple... see below

> > For the most part, I've seen a couple mixers
> boards
> > and mostly references to homebrew building, but
> > nothing in the way of kits or commercially offered
> > radios.
> >
> > Considering how difficult the 40M situation is in
> > Europe, and how large the ham population is,
> certainly
> > one would think that someone would have championed
> the
> > technology by now...
> >
> > Any thoughts on this?

Intellectual rights on the H-Mode Mixer belong to
Colin Horrabin, G3SBI, and manufacturers do not like
to pay some extra $$$$ or ££££ or €€€€€ (Euro) ... or
maybe they try not to use someone else "brain
products" ... I guess ... hi.

The H-Mode Mixer has been used in two important
European Designs, as already mentioned, CDG2000 (G3SBI
part of the team) and Pic-A-Star or STAR by G3XJP. In
both designs you will see the "presence" of Bill,
W7AAZ and Harold, W4ZCB, particularly in the STAR.
Many European homebrewer designs have included the
H-Mode mixer in both 3T and 2T configurations. A
couple of projects are also been undertaken in JA-land
(see JA9TTT webpage).
Also several mods to commercial equipment have been
undertaken mainly in Europe and a couple in W-land.
When I published the I7SWX 2T H-Moder Mixer
configuration, LZ1OV produced the PCBs and if I do
recall over 200 pieces were sold all over Europe and
some in W-land and JA.

Why the H-Mode Mixer is not so well known in W-Land?
this is a question people may ask --- maybe is due to
the fact that QST is OK to publish NE602 projects and
less available to just a little more complex ones.
An article on the H-Mode Mixer was published in QEX by
IK4AUY ... but I am sure it did not "wake-up" the
interest in too many readers.... (????)

Have a nice weekend and up with the H-Mode Mixer ...
hi

73

Gian
I7SWX

> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Julius
> > n2wn
>
>
>



       
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[Julius Fazekas n2wn]

Hi Geoff,

It seems strange to me that it lingers more on the
fringes than moving into the mainstream. If it's been
around for 15 or more years, one would think something
could have been negotiated regarding any intellectual
rights.

It certainly sounds interesting based on what I've
read. 'Twould be interesting to see it implemented for
more of a mass market...

Hope you're doing well in loverly France...

Cheers,
Julius
n2wn

--- Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Julius,
>
> It might have something to do with Intellectual
> Title, but not being well
> versed in such matters I could well be wrong. I have
> read very recently that
> the H-Mode is being used in a new receiver for
> military use, and I know that
> Rhode & Schwarz use a very similar mixer in one of
> their "Professional"
> receivers designed during the mid or late 1990s - I
> would have to look up
> the model. Perhaps the differences in the R&S mixer
> are sufficient to
> prevent legal problems. I have asked myself the same
> question as yours
> because the original H-Mode design appeared at least
> 15 years ago and has
> been "maturing" ever since, and without any doubt is
> a high class performer.
>
> In the European amateur press the H-Mode has
> received good coverage which
> includes the publication of rceiver designs in which
> the mixer is used. The
> ARRL Hanbook 2001 includes a description of the
> "Triad" receiver, a relative
> of the receiver in the CDG2000, the latter was
> offered as a kit if memory
> serves me right.
>
> 73,
> Geoff
> GM4ESD
>
>
> Julius N2WN wrote:
>
>
> > Geoff & Gian,
> >
> > To play devil's advocate (I'm decent in this
> role), if
> > the H-mode mixers is as simple and as effective as
> you
> > both suggest. Why hasn't it been more widely
> adopted?
> >
> > For the most part, I've seen a couple mixers
> boards
> > and mostly references to homebrew building, but
> > nothing in the way of kits or commercially offered
> > radios.
> >
> > Considering how difficult the 40M situation is in
> > Europe, and how large the ham population is,
> certainly
> > one would think that someone would have championed
> the
> > technology by now...
> >
> > Any thoughts on this?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Julius
> > n2wn
>
>
>

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[Julius Fazekas n2wn]

Hi Gian,


> The H-Mode Mixer (3 transformers) using both SD5000
> and FST3125, referred to the TRIAD (W7AAZ, W4ZCB and
> G3SBI) is reported in the ARRL Book EMRF Design.

Perhaps I missed these, been reading more about
antennas than Rx design, particularly if it was SDR.
Mea Culpa here...


> Intellectual rights on the H-Mode Mixer belong to
> Colin Horrabin, G3SBI, and manufacturers do not like
> to pay some extra $$$$ or ££££ or €€€€€ (Euro) ...
> or
> maybe they try not to use someone else "brain
> products" ... I guess ... hi.

I know how this goes, still, if the need and demand
was there, some fee seems better than not having a
good product. Still, maybe it's because many equipment
manufacturers, like many hams, are adverse to change
at times...

>
> The H-Mode Mixer has been used in two important
> European Designs, as already mentioned, CDG2000
> (G3SBI
> part of the team) and Pic-A-Star or STAR by G3XJP.
> In
> both designs you will see the "presence" of Bill,
> W7AAZ and Harold, W4ZCB, particularly in the STAR.
> Many European homebrewer designs have included the
> H-Mode mixer in both 3T and 2T configurations. A
> couple of projects are also been undertaken in
> JA-land
> (see JA9TTT webpage).
> Also several mods to commercial equipment have been
> undertaken mainly in Europe and a couple in W-land.
> When I published the I7SWX 2T H-Moder Mixer
> configuration, LZ1OV produced the PCBs and if I do
> recall over 200 pieces were sold all over Europe and
> some in W-land and JA.

I am aware of the STAR (had forgot about it) As I
recall there were some personality issues that may
have stunted growth or wider adoption. I could be
wrong...

>
> Why the H-Mode Mixer is not so well known in W-Land?
> this is a question people may ask --- maybe is due
> to
> the fact that QST is OK to publish NE602 projects
> and
> less available to just a little more complex ones.
> An article on the H-Mode Mixer was published in QEX
> by
> IK4AUY ... but I am sure it did not "wake-up" the
> interest in too many readers.... (????)

Actually, I've read IK4AUY's article(s) with much
interest. QEX is not as widely read as say QST or CQ.
These days those types of articles are considered too
specialized for the mainstream. We could use a
publication like "Ham Radio" again. It is rare to see
a RadCom at any but the large hamfests. That seems to
keep technical and non-technical in the same rag,
versus the segmenting that is so popular here.

I might consider modifying one of my K2s (assuming I
don't sell one off for the K3!). It will be
interesting to see how this morphs.

H-mode and tinkering forever ;o)

Ciao bello!

Julius
n2wn
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[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy-2]

Hi Julius,


J F <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It seems strange to me that it lingers more on the
> fringes than moving into the mainstream. If it's been
> around for 15 or more years, one would think something
> could have been negotiated regarding any intellectual
> rights.

I think that it has, but not into the amateur mainstream.

Will reply to your other comments off list, this is 'Off Topic'!!

73
Geoff
GM4ESD



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[I7SWX]

Hi Julius,

--- J F <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Gian,
>
>
> > The H-Mode Mixer (3 transformers) using both
> SD5000
> > and FST3125, referred to the TRIAD (W7AAZ, W4ZCB
> and
> > G3SBI) is reported in the ARRL Book EMRF Design.
>
> Perhaps I missed these, been reading more about
> antennas than Rx design, particularly if it was SDR.
> Mea Culpa here...

You should not feel bad ... there are many people that
missed articles ...hi You can read it in another time
...

>
> > Intellectual rights on the H-Mode Mixer belong to
> > Colin Horrabin, G3SBI, and manufacturers do not
> like
> > to pay some extra $$$$ or ££££ or €€€€€ (Euro) ...
> > or
> > maybe they try not to use someone else "brain
> > products" ... I guess ... hi.
>
> I know how this goes, still, if the need and demand
> was there, some fee seems better than not having a
> good product. Still, maybe it's because many
> equipment
> manufacturers, like many hams, are adverse to change
> at times...

It is not clear ... the design of a commercial Ham
equipment is finalized by the accountants and not the
engineers. Removing 50$ of components reduces the
product of 200$ ... for 1000 units they saved or
gained 200.000$ (I believe this second solution maybe
the right one ... hi)

 

> >
> > The H-Mode Mixer has been used in two important
> > European Designs, as already mentioned, CDG2000
> > (G3SBI
> > part of the team) and Pic-A-Star or STAR by G3XJP.
> > In
> > both designs you will see the "presence" of Bill,
> > W7AAZ and Harold, W4ZCB, particularly in the STAR.
> > Many European homebrewer designs have included the
> > H-Mode mixer in both 3T and 2T configurations. A
> > couple of projects are also been undertaken in
> > JA-land
> > (see JA9TTT webpage).
> > Also several mods to commercial equipment have
> been
> > undertaken mainly in Europe and a couple in
> W-land.
> > When I published the I7SWX 2T H-Moder Mixer
> > configuration, LZ1OV produced the PCBs and if I do
> > recall over 200 pieces were sold all over Europe
> and
> > some in W-land and JA.
>
> I am aware of the STAR (had forgot about it) As I
> recall there were some personality issues that may
> have stunted growth or wider adoption. I could be
> wrong...

Yes... some issue but not "personality". The issue are
associated to the PCBs that the STAR homebrewer has to
make himself. I suggested to G3XJP to arrange for a
STAR PCBs kit... I have a friend that could manage
that (like done for the N2PK-VNA original kit).
G3XJP was clear on this point and then I understood
why he was and still contrary ....
The STAR project is not for everyone that may know how
to keep a soldering iron on his hand. You need
knowledge of hdw and sw ... imagine 500 kit are sold
out .... some of the buyers will never complete the
STAR ... some will make it and have it running as
expected .. some others may do some wrong assy ...
Star will not work ... there would be two reactions
from these users:

1) An unnecessary overload for G3XJP to help fixing
the problems ... but not due to the project, and he
would be right to refuse support

2) Upset people talking badly about STAR Project, his
designer (G3XJP), who would haved produced the PCB kit
and who else...

I agreed on Peter's decision of no commercially
produced PCB. If aq group of hams would like to make a
commercila like PCB kit for each member I believe
there would not bee any problem if there would be a
group support and in case of genuine problems only one
of the groupo wwould interface with G3XJP ... maybe I
am wrong on this too.
 

> >
> > Why the H-Mode Mixer is not so well known in
> W-Land?
> > this is a question people may ask --- maybe is due
> > to
> > the fact that QST is OK to publish NE602 projects
> > and
> > less available to just a little more complex ones.
> > An article on the H-Mode Mixer was published in
> QEX
> > by
> > IK4AUY ... but I am sure it did not "wake-up" the
> > interest in too many readers.... (????)
>
> Actually, I've read IK4AUY's article(s) with much
> interest. QEX is not as widely read as say QST or
> CQ.

Yes, this is the main problem. Only fiddlers would
extend their membership to receive QEX

> These days those types of articles are considered
> too
> specialized for the mainstream. We could use a
> publication like "Ham Radio" again.

You are right on both. I have missed HamRadio .. it
died when it was sold to 73 ... a no technology
booklet...


It is rare to
> see
> a RadCom at any but the large hamfests. That seems
> to
> keep technical and non-technical in the same rag,
> versus the segmenting that is so popular here.

RadCom for me is the best Ham magazine. There are
inetersting articles although some times RSGB has
similar problems as other Radio Societies...
One of the best column in RadCom is Technical Topiocs
manage by Pat Hawker, G3VA, where you have a world
wide share of knowledge.
I would suggest people should ask their own Radio Club
to pay for a membership to RSGB and all the members
would benefit from it.... same from their own town
library.


>
> I might consider modifying one of my K2s (assuming I
> don't sell one off for the K3!). It will be
> interesting to see how this morphs.

Yes, you should consider to modify one of your K2s ...
you should not be afraid ... and I have the legal
protection of one of your local advocates ... your
wife ... hi

> H-mode and tinkering forever ;o)

GOOD !!!!

> Ciao bello!

Thanks ... it would have been a better comment from a
YL ... hi... did you look at my picture?

Ciao

Gian
I7SWX

>
> Julius
> n2wn
>



       
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[Brian Lloyd-6]

On May 11, 2007, at 5:37 AM, J F wrote:

> Geoff & Gian,
>
> To play devil's advocate (I'm decent in this role), if
> the H-mode mixers is as simple and as effective as you
> both suggest. Why hasn't it been more widely adopted?

And just to confuse things even more, what about the Tayloe mixer?

73 de Brian, WB6RQN
Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com


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[Brian Lloyd-6]

> You are right on both. I have missed HamRadio .. it
> died when it was sold to 73 ... a no technology
> booklet...

Hey! I resent that! I wrote the "Packet Talk" column for 73 around  
1988/1989. I tried to ensure that it had some useful technical content!

(Just kidding. No offense taken. :-)

73 de Brian, WB6RQN
Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com


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[Augie "Gus" Hansen]

> ...
> You are right on both. I have missed HamRadio .. it
> died when it was sold to 73 ... a no technology
> booklet...
>  
If memory serves, sometime after Jim Fisk's death, Ham Radio was
obtained by CQ Communications and became the basis of Communications
Quarterly. More recently, I believe, what remained of Communications
Quarterly has been devoured by the ARRL and incorporated into QEX, which
was its competitor.

Gus Hansen
KB0YH

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[Ken Kopp]

You aree correct.  It was NOT sold to Waynes Green's "73" Magazine.

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
[hidden email]
K2 S/N 5665
K3 ________

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[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy-2]

Although I have not myself had any serious "hands on" experience with the
Tayloe mixer, from private correspondence exchanged several years ago I
understand that the Tayloe while being a good performer in terms of IIP3 is
not as "good" as the H-Mode. I have the comparative data in France along
with most of my design "stuff".  Not too long ago the H-Mode was described
by a qualified individual as 'still being at the top of the heap'.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD

Brian Lloyd <[hidden email]> wrote
On Friday, May 11, 2007 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] H mode mixer


> And just to confuse things even more, what about the Tayloe mixer?
>
> 73 de Brian, WB6RQN


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[I7SWX]

Hi Brian,

thanks for your message.

--- Brian Lloyd <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > You are right on both. I have missed HamRadio ..
> it
> > died when it was sold to 73 ... a no technology
> > booklet...
>
> Hey! I resent that! I wrote the "Packet Talk" column
> for 73 around  
> 1988/1989. I tried to ensure that it had some useful
> technical content!
>
> (Just kidding. No offense taken. :-)

I am sorry for my comment and glad you did a good work
on the Packet Talk column... I did not mean to offend
and please excuse me even you are kidding too.

During my travels to US from 98 to 2004 (at least 4
times a year, I was always looking for 73 Mag ... when
I was finding it there was not much of interest for
me. Sorry for the editor(s).

73

Gian
I7SWX

>
> 73 de Brian, WB6RQN
> Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com
>
>
>



       
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[Julius Fazekas n2wn]

In some ways, 73 represented a different side of Ham
Radio. We do owe Wayne gratitude for keeping 220 mHz
available for ham use.

We always had access to all of the US magazines. Wish
it were easier to pick up a copy of none US radio
magazines here (then and now)

73,
Julius
n2wn

--- Brian Lloyd <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > You are right on both. I have missed HamRadio ..
> it
> > died when it was sold to 73 ... a no technology
> > booklet...
>
> Hey! I resent that! I wrote the "Packet Talk" column
> for 73 around  
> 1988/1989. I tried to ensure that it had some useful
> technical content!
>
> (Just kidding. No offense taken. :-)
>
> 73 de Brian, WB6RQN
> Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com
>
>
>

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[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy-2]

If you became a member of the RSGB you would get Radcom every month :-)

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD

J F  <[hidden email]> wrote:
 
> We always had access to all of the US magazines. Wish
> it were easier to pick up a copy of none US radio
> magazines here (then and now)
>
> 73,
> Julius
> n2wn


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[Julius Fazekas n2wn]

Actually Geoff, the ARRL has a decent deal going on
for RSGB membership:

RadCom Magazine (RSGB)
-- Subscriptions are now available on an exclusive
deal from ARRL! RadCom is the UK's biggest and best
radio magazine. It is published by the Radio Society
of Great Britain (RSGB).

Enjoy 15 monthly issues for the price of 12 (new
members only). And, Airmail Delivery!

Subscribers enjoy:
# Technical Topics
# Short Wave Listening
# Construction Articles Galore
# IOTA
# HF
# QRP
# WWW
and many, many more features!

#RSGB -- $79.00

Certainly worth considering...

73,
Julius
n2wn

--- Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> If you became a member of the RSGB you would get
> Radcom every month :-)
>
> 73,
> Geoff
> GM4ESD
>
> J F  <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
> > We always had access to all of the US magazines.
> Wish
> > it were easier to pick up a copy of none US radio
> > magazines here (then and now)
> >
> > 73,
> > Julius
> > n2wn
>
>
>

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[Sam Morgan]

J F wrote:
> Actually Geoff, the ARRL has a decent deal going on
> for RSGB membership:
>
> RadCom Magazine (RSGB)
> -- Subscriptions are now available on an exclusive
> deal from ARRL!

any comments on which one would be your pick
if you could only read one or the other?
QST or RadCom
--
GB & 73's
KA5OAI
Sam Morgan
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[Julius Fazekas n2wn]

It would depend on your interests. I'd probably stick
with QST because it covers more items of interest for
me. These being ARRL sponsored contests, national
events including legislation/regulation and regional
activities. One could argue strongly for CQ magazine
for the same reasons.

If my bend was more technical than it is and I wanted
to maintain contact with the entire spectrum of
Amateur Radio activities, I'd be more inclined to go
with RadCom.

I already get NCJ, CQ and QEX, so have the US
activities pretty well covered. There are a fair
number of eZines from various contest groups, local
clubs, QRP groups on the web. Still, I think RadCom
would be a valuable addition, particularly if you're a
serious Amateur ;o)

It may be the only other English language radio
publication, which would make a difference for many.

73,
Julius
n2wn

--- Sam Morgan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> J F wrote:
> > Actually Geoff, the ARRL has a decent deal going
> on
> > for RSGB membership:
> >
> > RadCom Magazine (RSGB)
> > -- Subscriptions are now available on an exclusive
> > deal from ARRL!
>
> any comments on which one would be your pick
> if you could only read one or the other?
> QST or RadCom
> --
> GB & 73's
> KA5OAI
> Sam Morgan
>

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[Stuart Rohre]

Augie,
You are correct, Ham Radio went to CQ Pubs., then to ARRL, as Communications
Quarterly was incorporated into QEX.

Stuart
K5KVH


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[Brian Lloyd-6]

On May 14, 2007, at 5:42 AM, J F wrote:

> In some ways, 73 represented a different side of Ham
> Radio. We do owe Wayne gratitude for keeping 220 mHz
> available for ham use.

Wayne was interesting to work for. He was aptly noted for being a  
cheapskate and it turned out that was true. OTOH, one time when I was  
up there he took me out to lunch and we had a great argument about  
the future of amateur radio. (Several people in the office dropped in  
a dead faint when they learned that Wayne actually bought me, an  
employee, lunch. :-) I was, of course, suggesting that digital  
communications was the future of amateur radio. He wasn't sure. Seems  
we were both at least part right because here it is 18 years later  
and we are only just starting to see changes in the communications  
landscape.

Anyway, he sure annoyed the hell out of everyone but you have to  
admit, he had an effect on what we do and how we do it.

Never Say Die.

And speaking of digital communications, the loss of The Code as a  
gating factor is going to prompt a shift away from CW as the  
minimalist mode for HF. I believe that PSK31 is probably going to  
slowly take over that position as it can be done with equipment  
almost as simple as a CW rig and provides the same level of  
communications at similar power levels.

(BTW, I am teaching code to my kids at school as I want them to be  
able to build the simplest radio possible to get on the air. I just  
don't think that CW will remain as the mainstay "last resort"  
communications mode.)

> We always had access to all of the US magazines. Wish
> it were easier to pick up a copy of none US radio
> magazines here (then and now)

I agree. The high cost of equipment in other parts of the world has  
created a cadre of experimenters and homebrewers that we don't really  
have in the US. Hopefully the ability to publish on the net will  
improve the flow of information back to the US.

>
> 73,
> Julius
> n2wn

73 de Brian, WB6RQN
Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com


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