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Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

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Drew Arnett

Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

Hi,

In the KX3 for Field Day department, we plan to use it for the GOTA
station for phone on HF. (Yes, will have antennas not on top of each
other and bandpass filters on ALL radios.) Would be great to setup
with a headset and foot switch.

Last weekend, I used my KX3 barefoot on 6 and with a
transverters-store.com transverter (also barefoot) for 2. 6m antenna
was 2 elements about 15 ft above the ground and 2m antenna 6 elements
at 10 feet above the ground.

I worked a couple of contacts on 2m phone with the headset. Later,
when I tried to use the headset for phone on 6, seemed like I was
having a feedback problem. Cabling was the stock cabling that comes
with the Heil Pro 7 headset and a footswitch. Monitor was on and set
to 4.

So, ALC didn't indicate anything at the normal level (60), and
increasing it very abruptly caused horrible sounding audio. (Yes,
acts like positive feedback.)

I have a small electret mic on a 1/8 plug thing I bought some time ago
from the computer store. (Meant at the time for adding mic to
laptops.) I have a 1/8" audio extension cable for it. I plugged that
in instead of the headset mic and it seemed to act normally.

Is this purely an RF from the TX antenna getting into the mic audio
problem or is it something else?

Best practice to avoid this problem?

On my todo list:
- ask here
- look at KX3 schematic to see if it has RF ingress mitigation on the mic jack
- ask Heil
- unplug the Heil mic element and gator clip my cheap electret mic on
instead and try on 6m in driveway with identical antenna/mast/radio
setup
- look for or assemble an RF filter to inline with the mic jack (tough
to do with this little time
before field day)

Thanks and best regards,

Drew
n7da

ps. Other than this, KX3 was great in the VHF test. Worked great
with the transverter on 2 and was a lot of fun running barefoot with
the sporadic E opening Saturday afternoon & evening.
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Drew Arnett

Re: Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

Shield of mic jack goes to bare metal Elecraft thoughtfully left on
the chassis metal. 10 nF shunt to ground. (Need to see where that
is, but hopefully SMT and with very small loop area.) Sheet 9:
https://ftp.elecraft.com/KX3/Manuals%20Downloads/KX3SchematicDiagramDec2012.pdf

Heil suggests on their tips page generous ferrite choking of all 3
leads of their Y adapter cable:
https://heilhamradio.com/support/tips/

Drew
n7da

On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 3:23 AM Drew Arnett <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> In the KX3 for Field Day department, we plan to use it for the GOTA
> station for phone on HF. (Yes, will have antennas not on top of each
> other and bandpass filters on ALL radios.) Would be great to setup
> with a headset and foot switch.
>
> Last weekend, I used my KX3 barefoot on 6 and with a
> transverters-store.com transverter (also barefoot) for 2. 6m antenna
> was 2 elements about 15 ft above the ground and 2m antenna 6 elements
> at 10 feet above the ground.
>
> I worked a couple of contacts on 2m phone with the headset. Later,
> when I tried to use the headset for phone on 6, seemed like I was
> having a feedback problem. Cabling was the stock cabling that comes
> with the Heil Pro 7 headset and a footswitch. Monitor was on and set
> to 4.
>
> So, ALC didn't indicate anything at the normal level (60), and
> increasing it very abruptly caused horrible sounding audio. (Yes,
> acts like positive feedback.)
>
> I have a small electret mic on a 1/8 plug thing I bought some time ago
> from the computer store. (Meant at the time for adding mic to
> laptops.) I have a 1/8" audio extension cable for it. I plugged that
> in instead of the headset mic and it seemed to act normally.
>
> Is this purely an RF from the TX antenna getting into the mic audio
> problem or is it something else?
>
> Best practice to avoid this problem?
>
> On my todo list:
> - ask here
> - look at KX3 schematic to see if it has RF ingress mitigation on the mic jack
> - ask Heil
> - unplug the Heil mic element and gator clip my cheap electret mic on
> instead and try on 6m in driveway with identical antenna/mast/radio
> setup
> - look for or assemble an RF filter to inline with the mic jack (tough
> to do with this little time
> before field day)
>
> Thanks and best regards,
>
> Drew
> n7da
>
> ps. Other than this, KX3 was great in the VHF test. Worked great
> with the transverter on 2 and was a lot of fun running barefoot with
> the sporadic E opening Saturday afternoon & evening.

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Jim Brown-10

Re: Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

Heil products are wildly overpriced and highly over-rated. No ham needs
a boom mic headset better than a Yamaha CM500, which sounds great both
in the headphones and one the air, is very comfortable, costs about $60,
and has ZERO RFI issues. I'm a Fellow of the Audio Engineering Society,
have a storage room full of great mics far better than anything Heil
makes, do very serious contesting. and I've used nothing but the CM500
for more than ten years. What pro audio folks say about Bose applies
equally to Heil -- "better sound through marketing."

The CM500 plugs straight into the back of an version of a K3 (and
probably a K4), and I'll be happy to list TXEQ settings that make it
sound FAR better than Heil headset mics.

I've been a member of the AES Standards Committee Working Group on
Microphones for almost 30 years, and I've never met Bob Heil or anyone
from his company. That should tell you something about how
"professional" he and his company are. :) This whole thing about "I did
sound for XXX rock band is, as my Black friends would say, "a whole
bunch of shuck and jive."

73, Jim K9YC

On 6/16/2021 8:36 PM, Drew Arnett wrote:

> Shield of mic jack goes to bare metal Elecraft thoughtfully left on
> the chassis metal. 10 nF shunt to ground. (Need to see where that
> is, but hopefully SMT and with very small loop area.) Sheet 9:
> https://ftp.elecraft.com/KX3/Manuals%20Downloads/KX3SchematicDiagramDec2012.pdf
>
> Heil suggests on their tips page generous ferrite choking of all 3
> leads of their Y adapter cable:
> https://heilhamradio.com/support/tips/
>
> Drew
> n7da
>
> On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 3:23 AM Drew Arnett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> In the KX3 for Field Day department, we plan to use it for the GOTA
>> station for phone on HF. (Yes, will have antennas not on top of each
>> other and bandpass filters on ALL radios.) Would be great to setup
>> with a headset and foot switch.
>>
>> Last weekend, I used my KX3 barefoot on 6 and with a
>> transverters-store.com transverter (also barefoot) for 2. 6m antenna
>> was 2 elements about 15 ft above the ground and 2m antenna 6 elements
>> at 10 feet above the ground.
>>
>> I worked a couple of contacts on 2m phone with the headset. Later,
>> when I tried to use the headset for phone on 6, seemed like I was
>> having a feedback problem. Cabling was the stock cabling that comes
>> with the Heil Pro 7 headset and a footswitch. Monitor was on and set
>> to 4.
>>
>> So, ALC didn't indicate anything at the normal level (60), and
>> increasing it very abruptly caused horrible sounding audio. (Yes,
>> acts like positive feedback.)
>>
>> I have a small electret mic on a 1/8 plug thing I bought some time ago
>> from the computer store. (Meant at the time for adding mic to
>> laptops.) I have a 1/8" audio extension cable for it. I plugged that
>> in instead of the headset mic and it seemed to act normally.
>>
>> Is this purely an RF from the TX antenna getting into the mic audio
>> problem or is it something else?
>>
>> Best practice to avoid this problem?
>>
>> On my todo list:
>> - ask here
>> - look at KX3 schematic to see if it has RF ingress mitigation on the mic jack
>> - ask Heil
>> - unplug the Heil mic element and gator clip my cheap electret mic on
>> instead and try on 6m in driveway with identical antenna/mast/radio
>> setup
>> - look for or assemble an RF filter to inline with the mic jack (tough
>> to do with this little time
>> before field day)
>>
>> Thanks and best regards,
>>
>> Drew
>> n7da
>>
>> ps. Other than this, KX3 was great in the VHF test. Worked great
>> with the transverter on 2 and was a lot of fun running barefoot with
>> the sporadic E opening Saturday afternoon & evening.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

AL7CR

Re: Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

Please list your TXEQ settings.

On Thu, Jun 17, 2021, at 12:42 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> Heil products are wildly overpriced and highly over-rated. No ham needs
> a boom mic headset better than a Yamaha CM500, which sounds great both
> in the headphones and one the air, is very comfortable, costs about $60,
> and has ZERO RFI issues. I'm a Fellow of the Audio Engineering Society,
> have a storage room full of great mics far better than anything Heil
> makes, do very serious contesting. and I've used nothing but the CM500
> for more than ten years. What pro audio folks say about Bose applies
> equally to Heil -- "better sound through marketing."
>
> The CM500 plugs straight into the back of an version of a K3 (and
> probably a K4), and I'll be happy to list TXEQ settings that make it
> sound FAR better than Heil headset mics.
>
> I've been a member of the AES Standards Committee Working Group on
> Microphones for almost 30 years, and I've never met Bob Heil or anyone
> from his company. That should tell you something about how
> "professional" he and his company are. :) This whole thing about "I did
> sound for XXX rock band is, as my Black friends would say, "a whole
> bunch of shuck and jive."
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 6/16/2021 8:36 PM, Drew Arnett wrote:
> > Shield of mic jack goes to bare metal Elecraft thoughtfully left on
> > the chassis metal. 10 nF shunt to ground. (Need to see where that
> > is, but hopefully SMT and with very small loop area.) Sheet 9:
> > https://ftp.elecraft.com/KX3/Manuals%20Downloads/KX3SchematicDiagramDec2012.pdf
> >
> > Heil suggests on their tips page generous ferrite choking of all 3
> > leads of their Y adapter cable:
> > https://heilhamradio.com/support/tips/
> >
> > Drew
> > n7da
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 3:23 AM Drew Arnett <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> In the KX3 for Field Day department, we plan to use it for the GOTA
> >> station for phone on HF. (Yes, will have antennas not on top of each
> >> other and bandpass filters on ALL radios.) Would be great to setup
> >> with a headset and foot switch.
> >>
> >> Last weekend, I used my KX3 barefoot on 6 and with a
> >> transverters-store.com transverter (also barefoot) for 2. 6m antenna
> >> was 2 elements about 15 ft above the ground and 2m antenna 6 elements
> >> at 10 feet above the ground.
> >>
> >> I worked a couple of contacts on 2m phone with the headset. Later,
> >> when I tried to use the headset for phone on 6, seemed like I was
> >> having a feedback problem. Cabling was the stock cabling that comes
> >> with the Heil Pro 7 headset and a footswitch. Monitor was on and set
> >> to 4.
> >>
> >> So, ALC didn't indicate anything at the normal level (60), and
> >> increasing it very abruptly caused horrible sounding audio. (Yes,
> >> acts like positive feedback.)
> >>
> >> I have a small electret mic on a 1/8 plug thing I bought some time ago
> >> from the computer store. (Meant at the time for adding mic to
> >> laptops.) I have a 1/8" audio extension cable for it. I plugged that
> >> in instead of the headset mic and it seemed to act normally.
> >>
> >> Is this purely an RF from the TX antenna getting into the mic audio
> >> problem or is it something else?
> >>
> >> Best practice to avoid this problem?
> >>
> >> On my todo list:
> >> - ask here
> >> - look at KX3 schematic to see if it has RF ingress mitigation on the mic jack
> >> - ask Heil
> >> - unplug the Heil mic element and gator clip my cheap electret mic on
> >> instead and try on 6m in driveway with identical antenna/mast/radio
> >> setup
> >> - look for or assemble an RF filter to inline with the mic jack (tough
> >> to do with this little time
> >> before field day)
> >>
> >> Thanks and best regards,
> >>
> >> Drew
> >> n7da
> >>
> >> ps. Other than this, KX3 was great in the VHF test. Worked great
> >> with the transverter on 2 and was a lot of fun running barefoot with
> >> the sporadic E opening Saturday afternoon & evening.
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

On 6/17/2021 9:55 AM, AL7CR wrote:
> Please list your TXEQ settings.

First (lowest) three bands, max cut, fourth (400 Hz) 6 dB cut, top two
bands boost 3-6 dB, other bands flat (0 dB). Then set Comp for 10 dB on
voice peaks, and get signal reports from good listeners. Tell them to
set their IF fairly wide. If you want more or less lows, tweak 400 Hz.

These settings are for good communications quality, cutting through
noise and QRM. They are NOT intended to make you sound like HiFi, or
"full." As Riley Hollingsworth, the guy who before he retired from the
FCC said, if you want HiFi, buy a broadcast station."

73, Jim K9YC
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Rich-4

Re: Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

In reply to this post by Drew Arnett

A couple thoughts and questions:

Are you hearing the "RF?" in the headphones?

If so you may want to increase your MONITOR Level. I have heard what I
thought was RF in my headphones. On the air reports were good audio no
RF. I believe the real issue was that a LOW Monitor level setting was
not enough to drive the headphone speakers. That is my quess, no
technical data to back that up. When I increased the MONITOR Level the
audio in my ears was perfect.

Has anyone told you that there is RF on your TX signal?

I would think RF from a 15watt radio should be easily cured with some
MIX 31 snap on ferrittes

Rich

On 6/16/2021 23:23 PM, Drew Arnett wrote:

> Hi,
>
> In the KX3 for Field Day department, we plan to use it for the GOTA
> station for phone on HF. (Yes, will have antennas not on top of each
> other and bandpass filters on ALL radios.) Would be great to setup
> with a headset and foot switch.
>
> Last weekend, I used my KX3 barefoot on 6 and with a
> transverters-store.com transverter (also barefoot) for 2. 6m antenna
> was 2 elements about 15 ft above the ground and 2m antenna 6 elements
> at 10 feet above the ground.
>
> I worked a couple of contacts on 2m phone with the headset. Later,
> when I tried to use the headset for phone on 6, seemed like I was
> having a feedback problem. Cabling was the stock cabling that comes
> with the Heil Pro 7 headset and a footswitch. Monitor was on and set
> to 4.
>
> So, ALC didn't indicate anything at the normal level (60), and
> increasing it very abruptly caused horrible sounding audio. (Yes,
> acts like positive feedback.)
>
> I have a small electret mic on a 1/8 plug thing I bought some time ago
> from the computer store. (Meant at the time for adding mic to
> laptops.) I have a 1/8" audio extension cable for it. I plugged that
> in instead of the headset mic and it seemed to act normally.
>
> Is this purely an RF from the TX antenna getting into the mic audio
> problem or is it something else?
>
> Best practice to avoid this problem?
>
> On my todo list:
> - ask here
> - look at KX3 schematic to see if it has RF ingress mitigation on the mic jack
> - ask Heil
> - unplug the Heil mic element and gator clip my cheap electret mic on
> instead and try on 6m in driveway with identical antenna/mast/radio
> setup
> - look for or assemble an RF filter to inline with the mic jack (tough
> to do with this little time
> before field day)
>
> Thanks and best regards,
>
> Drew
> n7da
>
> ps. Other than this, KX3 was great in the VHF test. Worked great
> with the transverter on 2 and was a lot of fun running barefoot with
> the sporadic E opening Saturday afternoon & evening.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Julia Tuttle

Re: Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

I'd believe it! I've gotten weird noise artifacts before that were actually
"the monitor level is so low that the DAC is running out of bits". Mine
showed up most obviously as harmonics in the sidetone. Try adjusting the
monitor level in CW mode and see if you hear your issue at the lowest
levels but not higher. If you do, you could get an inline attenuator for
the headphones so you can run the AF gain and monitor levels high enough to
sound better.

Cheers,

Julie

On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 2:21 PM Rich <[hidden email]> wrote:

> A couple thoughts and questions:
>
> Are you hearing the "RF?" in the headphones?
>
> If so you may want to increase your MONITOR Level. I have heard what I
> thought was RF in my headphones. On the air reports were good audio no
> RF. I believe the real issue was that a LOW Monitor level setting was
> not enough to drive the headphone speakers. That is my quess, no
> technical data to back that up. When I increased the MONITOR Level the
> audio in my ears was perfect.
>
> Has anyone told you that there is RF on your TX signal?
>
> I would think RF from a 15watt radio should be easily cured with some
> MIX 31 snap on ferrittes
>
> Rich
>
>
>
> On 6/16/2021 23:23 PM, Drew Arnett wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > In the KX3 for Field Day department, we plan to use it for the GOTA
> > station for phone on HF. (Yes, will have antennas not on top of each
> > other and bandpass filters on ALL radios.) Would be great to setup
> > with a headset and foot switch.
> >
> > Last weekend, I used my KX3 barefoot on 6 and with a
> > transverters-store.com transverter (also barefoot) for 2. 6m antenna
> > was 2 elements about 15 ft above the ground and 2m antenna 6 elements
> > at 10 feet above the ground.
> >
> > I worked a couple of contacts on 2m phone with the headset. Later,
> > when I tried to use the headset for phone on 6, seemed like I was
> > having a feedback problem. Cabling was the stock cabling that comes
> > with the Heil Pro 7 headset and a footswitch. Monitor was on and set
> > to 4.
> >
> > So, ALC didn't indicate anything at the normal level (60), and
> > increasing it very abruptly caused horrible sounding audio. (Yes,
> > acts like positive feedback.)
> >
> > I have a small electret mic on a 1/8 plug thing I bought some time ago
> > from the computer store. (Meant at the time for adding mic to
> > laptops.) I have a 1/8" audio extension cable for it. I plugged that
> > in instead of the headset mic and it seemed to act normally.
> >
> > Is this purely an RF from the TX antenna getting into the mic audio
> > problem or is it something else?
> >
> > Best practice to avoid this problem?
> >
> > On my todo list:
> > - ask here
> > - look at KX3 schematic to see if it has RF ingress mitigation on the
> mic jack
> > - ask Heil
> > - unplug the Heil mic element and gator clip my cheap electret mic on
> > instead and try on 6m in driveway with identical antenna/mast/radio
> > setup
> > - look for or assemble an RF filter to inline with the mic jack (tough
> > to do with this little time
> > before field day)
> >
> > Thanks and best regards,
> >
> > Drew
> > n7da
> >
> > ps. Other than this, KX3 was great in the VHF test. Worked great
> > with the transverter on 2 and was a lot of fun running barefoot with
> > the sporadic E opening Saturday afternoon & evening.
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

john@kk9a.com

Re: Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

In reply to this post by Drew Arnett

Is there an advantage to using a electret microphone over a dynamic mic for
ham radio communication? Elecraft is the first transceiver that I have owned
where either type will easily work.

John KK9A

Jim Brown K9YC wrote:

Heil products are wildly overpriced and highly over-rated. No ham needs
a boom mic headset better than a Yamaha CM500, which sounds great both
in the headphones and one the air, is very comfortable, costs about $60,
and has ZERO RFI issues. I'm a Fellow of the Audio Engineering Society,
have a storage room full of great mics far better than anything Heil
makes, do very serious contesting. and I've used nothing but the CM500
for more than ten years. What pro audio folks say about Bose applies
equally to Heil -- "better sound through marketing."

The CM500 plugs straight into the back of an version of a K3 (and
probably a K4), and I'll be happy to list TXEQ settings that make it
sound FAR better than Heil headset mics.

73, Jim K9YC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Elecraft mailing list

Re: Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Some pretty bold generalizations except for pricing maybe and Heil’s industry associations.

I dislike my CM500’s. They are uncomfortable to wear for an extended period of time. I do have RFI issues with them when running full power on HF SSB.

I have an older Heil headset - not sure which model - came with a used IC-7700 several years ago. It plugs directly into the back Of the K3s. I get better audio reports with it than the Yamaha’s. All fairly subjective. I do have RFI issues with the Heil headset also.

I am lucky enough to have used one of Bob’s mixing desks and a B-3 he had modified during a repair. He’s not a hack.

Hank
K4HYJ

> On Jun 17, 2021, at 3:42 AM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Heil products are wildly overpriced and highly over-rated. No ham needs a boom mic headset better than a Yamaha CM500, which sounds great both in the headphones and one the air, is very comfortable, costs about $60, and has ZERO RFI issues. I'm a Fellow of the Audio Engineering Society, have a storage room full of great mics far better than anything Heil makes, do very serious contesting. and I've used nothing but the CM500 for more than ten years. What pro audio folks say about Bose applies equally to Heil -- "better sound through marketing."
>
> The CM500 plugs straight into the back of an version of a K3 (and probably a K4), and I'll be happy to list TXEQ settings that make it sound FAR better than Heil headset mics.
>
> I've been a member of the AES Standards Committee Working Group on Microphones for almost 30 years, and I've never met Bob Heil or anyone from his company. That should tell you something about how "professional" he and his company are. :) This whole thing about "I did sound for XXX rock band is, as my Black friends would say, "a whole bunch of shuck and jive."
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>> On 6/16/2021 8:36 PM, Drew Arnett wrote:
>> Shield of mic jack goes to bare metal Elecraft thoughtfully left on
>> the chassis metal. 10 nF shunt to ground. (Need to see where that
>> is, but hopefully SMT and with very small loop area.) Sheet 9:
>> https://ftp.elecraft.com/KX3/Manuals%20Downloads/KX3SchematicDiagramDec2012.pdf
>> Heil suggests on their tips page generous ferrite choking of all 3
>> leads of their Y adapter cable:
>> https://heilhamradio.com/support/tips/
>> Drew
>> n7da
>>> On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 3:23 AM Drew Arnett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> In the KX3 for Field Day department, we plan to use it for the GOTA
>>> station for phone on HF. (Yes, will have antennas not on top of each
>>> other and bandpass filters on ALL radios.) Would be great to setup
>>> with a headset and foot switch.
>>>
>>> Last weekend, I used my KX3 barefoot on 6 and with a
>>> transverters-store.com transverter (also barefoot) for 2. 6m antenna
>>> was 2 elements about 15 ft above the ground and 2m antenna 6 elements
>>> at 10 feet above the ground.
>>>
>>> I worked a couple of contacts on 2m phone with the headset. Later,
>>> when I tried to use the headset for phone on 6, seemed like I was
>>> having a feedback problem. Cabling was the stock cabling that comes
>>> with the Heil Pro 7 headset and a footswitch. Monitor was on and set
>>> to 4.
>>>
>>> So, ALC didn't indicate anything at the normal level (60), and
>>> increasing it very abruptly caused horrible sounding audio. (Yes,
>>> acts like positive feedback.)
>>>
>>> I have a small electret mic on a 1/8 plug thing I bought some time ago
>>> from the computer store. (Meant at the time for adding mic to
>>> laptops.) I have a 1/8" audio extension cable for it. I plugged that
>>> in instead of the headset mic and it seemed to act normally.
>>>
>>> Is this purely an RF from the TX antenna getting into the mic audio
>>> problem or is it something else?
>>>
>>> Best practice to avoid this problem?
>>>
>>> On my todo list:
>>> - ask here
>>> - look at KX3 schematic to see if it has RF ingress mitigation on the mic jack
>>> - ask Heil
>>> - unplug the Heil mic element and gator clip my cheap electret mic on
>>> instead and try on 6m in driveway with identical antenna/mast/radio
>>> setup
>>> - look for or assemble an RF filter to inline with the mic jack (tough
>>> to do with this little time
>>> before field day)
>>>
>>> Thanks and best regards,
>>>
>>> Drew
>>> n7da
>>>
>>> ps. Other than this, KX3 was great in the VHF test. Worked great
>>> with the transverter on 2 and was a lot of fun running barefoot with
>>> the sporadic E opening Saturday afternoon & evening.
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

In reply to this post by john@kk9a.com

On 6/17/2021 2:00 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Is there an advantage to using a electret microphone over a dynamic mic for
> ham radio communication? Elecraft is the first transceiver that I have owned
> where either type will easily work.

No. What matters most are sound quality and operating convenience. An
important advantage of a boom mic headset is that it maintains a
constant distance from the mouth -- loudness varies as the square of the
distance, so it minimizes variations in loudness.

The only shortcoming of the Yamaha set that I've run into is the
fragility of the cable. I'm hard on cans, and I've had to replace them
twice over about 12 years.

73, Jim K9YC

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Jim Brown-10

Re: Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

On 6/17/2021 2:12 PM, Hank wrote:
> I dislike my CM500’s. They are uncomfortable to wear for an extended period of time.

That's a GREAT reason for not liking them. And comfort in headsets is a
very individual thing -- all of us a built a bit differently. I had that
experience when I tried on the very expensive aviation-style headsets
which are being sold to hams, and which some guys find quite
comfortable. And after a few years when I heard a local contester saying
how comfy they were, I tried them on again at a hamfest, with the same
result. :)

I do have RFI issues with them when running full power on HF SSB.

What makes you certain that either headset is related to the RFI issue?
There are MANY mechanisms that can be the cause, especially failure to
do proper bonding.

73, Jim K9YC

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hb9cvq

Re: Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

I use mostly Heil Headsets for a long time. My latest with the FTDX101MP is Heil RED Pro 7 (with red contest cartridge) .
Right after the TRX audio output and mike input I always have a Ferrite N30 7 windings on each shielded cable.
The monitor (listening to SDRs e.g.) plug/shielded cable is blocked right at the headset with a small N30 core.
The 1.5m long shielded audio cable goes to my station notebook.
All is several times ferrite blocked and separated by a suitable audio transformer before going into the computer audio out.

I also own a Bose Aviation A20 Headset (over 1K$) with super active noise cancellation.
Guess what, into the spiral shielded cable I had to put a 10cm ferrite rod ( Hi permeability, positioned toward electronic battery unit ) to finally kill all RFI.
It goes without saying mike cable and phone cable are both ferrite core blocked right at the transceiver K3S.

In my Club CW Contests and FD I use Bose Quiet Comfort 25 (260$ around at that time?) - with N30 ferrite at the radio... I needed to build an extra audio attenuator to get to my wanted very low audio level.

My other older Heil (Headset) systems have all ferrite cores towards the radio.

Bose is most comfortable in my opinion...

Tnx, Cu, vy 73 de Andy
HB9CVQ, DK2VQ, AK4IG

https://www.qrz.com/db/HB9CVQ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Freitag, 18. Juni 2021 02:29
To: Reflector Elecraft <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

On 6/17/2021 2:12 PM, Hank wrote:
> I dislike my CM500’s. They are uncomfortable to wear for an extended period of time.

That's a GREAT reason for not liking them. And comfort in headsets is a very individual thing -- all of us a built a bit differently. I had that experience when I tried on the very expensive aviation-style headsets which are being sold to hams, and which some guys find quite comfortable. And after a few years when I heard a local contester saying how comfy they were, I tried them on again at a hamfest, with the same result. :)

I do have RFI issues with them when running full power on HF SSB.

What makes you certain that either headset is related to the RFI issue?
There are MANY mechanisms that can be the cause, especially failure to do proper bonding.

73, Jim K9YC

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Edward R Cole

Re: Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

In reply to this post by Drew Arnett

Here we go again: "The favorite headset topic".

Most of you who have been on this list a few years might recall when I
tried out a Yamaha CM500 headset. I wear hearing aids and the CM500
immediately set up a loud howl the minute I put them on (even with not
being plugged into the radio). Apparently my hearing aid gain is so
high the CM500 provided feedback to the hearing aid mics - I have two
with my OTE (over the ear) hearing aids. I sold the brand new Yamaha to
a reader for a good discount.

For years I have worn a Sony stereo headset. So to add a boom mic I
bought the AntLion unit. It has a nice earth magnet button that one
sticks onto the headset. The mic boom attaches nicely with magnetics.
On air reports good with standard or cardiod pattern selected.

I've only used it with my K3/10, so this does not directly answer use on
the KX3 (which I also have).

Big soft foam ear muffs are comfortable over my hearing aids for hours
of use. "If it ain't broke, why change". I use a venerable old Heil
HM10 desk mic on the K3 when not needing a boom mic.

Ed - KL7UW

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Jim Brown-10

Re: Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

On 6/18/2021 11:34 AM, Ed Cole wrote:
> I wear hearing aids and the CM500 immediately set up a loud howl the
> minute I put them on (even with not being plugged into the radio).
> Apparently my hearing aid gain is so high the CM500 provided feedback
> to the hearing aid mics - I have two with my OTE (over the ear) hearing
> aids.

That's acoustic interaction of the earphones with your aids, and depends
on the placement of the mics in the aids. Mics for the aids are picking
up their own amplified sound, because the acoustic space around the ear
is modified by the presence of the earphones. In sound systems, we call
that feedback. It makes sense that different headphones would interact
differently with aids, depending on the construction of both.

My XYL uses aids where the mics are outside the ear. She doesn't use
headphones when she's wearing them.

73, Jim K9YC

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Rick Bates, NK7I

Re: Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

Slight topic change, apologies.

Has anyone used rx audio via Bluetooth into their hearing aids? Any issues?

I was hoping the K4 would have BT audio, but it doesn't. So the next
best option would be to send the sound card audio to BT in a computer,
linked to the aids or headset... I don't have my K4 yet, so it's a guess.

73,
Rick NK7I

On 6/18/2021 11:58 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 6/18/2021 11:34 AM, Ed Cole wrote:
>> I wear hearing aids and the CM500 immediately set up a loud howl the
>> minute I put them on (even with not being plugged into the radio).
>> Apparently my hearing aid gain is so high the CM500 provided feedback
>> to the hearing aid mics - I have two with my OTE (over the ear)
>> hearing aids.
>
> That's acoustic interaction of the earphones with your aids, and
> depends on the placement of the mics in the aids. Mics for the aids
> are picking up their own amplified sound, because the acoustic space
> around the ear is modified by the presence of the earphones. In sound
> systems, we call that feedback. It makes sense that different
> headphones would interact differently with aids, depending on the
> construction of both.
>
> My XYL uses aids where the mics are outside the ear. She doesn't use
> headphones when she's wearing them.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

On 6/18/2021 12:04 PM, Rick NK7I wrote:
> Has anyone used rx audio via Bluetooth into their hearing aids? Any issues?

The important (and killer) issue with Bluetooth is latency when you try
to run CW. The delay makes it impossible to send with any form of bug,
paddle, or straight key. The delay is also be problematic if you try to
monitor yourself on SSB. When I was doing live sound for large crowds
outdoors, I heard very professional announcers slow down and stop
talking when they heard themselves coming back through the system 100
msec late.

There are (at least) two forms of BlueTooth. The one for shorter
distances (lower power) has less latency than the other. Both would be a
killer for CW, but the shorter one might not be too bad for monitoring
our own transmission on SSB.

73, Jim K9YC
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

It seems to depend on the headset being used. I have an IC-705 (my K-line is packed in storage currently) and have tried Bluetooth with it. Using several different BT headsets (Bose QC, Apple Air Pods, Avantree) it was an utter failure on CW. However, I recently got an Srhythm NC35 noise cancelling headset from Amazon. It works wonderfully on CW - zero latency to be detected. I operated several times in the CWops Wednesday night get togethers (high-speed CW) and THIS bluetooth headset was perfect. That being said, I am unaware what version of BT the ‘705 is using. But, one shouldn’t completely abandon the technology - it can work in certain circumstances.

Jim / K7TXA

> On Jun 18, 2021, at 1:23 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 6/18/2021 12:04 PM, Rick NK7I wrote:
>> Has anyone used rx audio via Bluetooth into their hearing aids? Any issues?
>
> The important (and killer) issue with Bluetooth is latency when you try to run CW. The delay makes it impossible to send with any form of bug, paddle, or straight key. The delay is also be problematic if you try to monitor yourself on SSB. When I was doing live sound for large crowds outdoors, I heard very professional announcers slow down and stop talking when they heard themselves coming back through the system 100 msec late.
>
> There are (at least) two forms of BlueTooth. The one for shorter distances (lower power) has less latency than the other. Both would be a killer for CW, but the shorter one might not be too bad for monitoring our own transmission on SSB.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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Edward R Cole

Re: Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?

In reply to this post by Drew Arnett

My hearing aids have blue tooth but require an interface to use it with
my iphone. The interface is a wireless remote control for the hearing
aids and came with a very small thing that plugs into audio sources via
a mini-phone plug. That sends the sound via BT to the remote and on to
my hearing aids. Haven't used it much but that might work better than a
headset. I didn't note any latency.

I have a K3, KX3, and new IC9700 which all provide ext audio. The issue
for lengthy use is the remote rechargeable battery life is short (maybe
two hours).

Note to Jim: Yes I realize its audio feedback in the CM500. Have no
problem using my Sony MVR-V600 headphones or my Bose noise-cancelling
headset. Suggestion that I wear headphones without hearing aids does
not work for me. Hearing loss is not just a factor of amplitude (I
cannot hear tones above 4-KHz). Loss is >100 dB. My hearing aids
provide 22 channel digital processing and I still need closed captioning
watching TV.

Digital modes are best for doing weak-signal ham radio as I can see the
computer FB.

Ed - KL7UW

> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 12:04:25 -0700
> From: Rick NK7I <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Heil Pro 7 headset with KX3 - RF feedback?
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Slight topic change, apologies.
>
> Has anyone used rx audio via Bluetooth into their hearing aids? Any issues?
>
> I was hoping the K4 would have BT audio, but it doesn't.? So the next
> best option would be to send the sound card audio to BT in a computer,
> linked to the aids or headset...? I don't have my K4 yet, so it's a guess.
>
> 73,
> Rick NK7I
>
>
> On 6/18/2021 11:58 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> On 6/18/2021 11:34 AM, Ed Cole wrote:
>>> I wear hearing aids and the CM500 immediately set up a loud howl the
>>> minute I put them on (even with not being plugged into the radio).?
>>> Apparently my hearing aid gain is so high the CM500 provided feedback
>>> to the hearing aid mics - I have two with my OTE (over the ear)
>>> hearing aids.
>> That's acoustic interaction of the earphones with your aids, and
>> depends on the placement of the mics in the aids. Mics for the aids
>> are picking up their own amplified sound, because the acoustic space
>> around the ear is modified by the presence of the earphones. In sound
>> systems, we call that feedback. It makes sense that different
>> headphones would interact differently with aids, depending on the
>> construction of both.
>>
>> My XYL uses aids where the mics are outside the ear. She doesn't use
>> headphones when she's wearing them.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>