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Help with noise on 40m

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Zac Brown-2

Help with noise on 40m

I made a few recordings of some noise that I hear on 40m tonight. The
.wav files can be downloaded at the address below. I have no idea what's
causing this noise, or how to filter it out. Is this the type of noise
that the KDSP2 or KNB2 could remove?

Thanks,

Zac
KD5IEF

http://homepage.mac.com/zac_brown/FileSharing44.html
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Help with noise on 40m

Zac,

I have no idea what could be causing that noise, but it certainly sounds
like it is frequency dependent (you were tuning during the recording
were you not?) and from the intensity, I would judge it to be a local
source.

The KNB2 will not likely reduce it at all, but the KDSP2 has a chance at
reducing it for you - that will depend on the settings you select for
the KDSP2.

You might first try turning everything off in your house and running the
K2 on battery to determine if the source is in your own home.

It sounds a bit similar to some of the recordings of BPL that I have
heard, so you may want to check to see if any new BPL installations have
been activated near you - if so, it is time to consult with the ARRL and
notify the FCC of the harmful interference.

73,
Don W3FPR

Zac Brown wrote:

> I made a few recordings of some noise that I hear on 40m tonight. The
> .wav files can be downloaded at the address below. I have no idea
> what's causing this noise, or how to filter it out. Is this the type
> of noise that the KDSP2 or KNB2 could remove?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Zac
> KD5IEF
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/zac_brown/FileSharing44.html
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
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>
>

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Don Ehrlich

Re: Help with noise on 40m

In reply to this post by Zac Brown-2

Sure sounds like typical local noise from something in your home (or a near
neighbors home). Have you or someone else in the house recently acquired a
new electronic gizmo, appliance, or ?? It could be most anything but the
switching power supplies used for almost everything these days are common
culprits. The worst noise I have ever experienced came from a 12 volt wall
wart used to power a halogen desk lamp.

Don K7FJ

>I made a few recordings of some noise that I hear on 40m tonight. The .wav
>files can be downloaded at the address below. I have no idea what's causing
>this noise, or how to filter it out. Is this the type of noise that the
>KDSP2 or KNB2 could remove?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Zac
> KD5IEF
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/zac_brown/FileSharing44.html
>

Dave Van Wallaghen

RE: Help with noise on 40m

In reply to this post by Zac Brown-2

Hey Zac,

That sounds very similar to what my plasma TV emits. I have my window line
running along the outside wall where the TV is mounted and when it is on, I
can hear it very plainly. The tone fluctuates with changes with the picture.
I've also noticed that it peaks at certain frequencies as well.

I was able to detect it as well when operating portable in my yard 100 ft
away with a separate antenna in a tree. So I know it's not just in the power
line. It is considerably attenuated out there - but there none the less.

BTW - I have a 50" Panasonic Plasma - beautiful picture and a great RF
generator.

73,
Dave W8FGU

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:elecraft-
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Brown
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 11:48 PM
> To: Elecraft reflector
> Subject: [Elecraft] Help with noise on 40m
>
> I made a few recordings of some noise that I hear on 40m tonight. The
> .wav files can be downloaded at the address below. I have no idea what's
> causing this noise, or how to filter it out. Is this the type of noise
> that the KDSP2 or KNB2 could remove?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Zac
> KD5IEF
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/zac_brown/FileSharing44.html
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Zac Brown-2

RE: Help with noise on 40m

In reply to this post by Zac Brown-2

After shutting off the circuits in my house, it appears that most of the noise is coming from two dimmer switches and a switching power supply.
The dimmer switches are for lighting and I'm not sure what the power supply is for. It's plugged into an outlet in my closet and is screwed to the wall.
I suspect maybe it's for the jacuzzi tub or the alarm system. I also discovered that with all the power shut off to my house, there is still quite a bit
of noise. I guess my neighbors' homes have similar devices installed.

What's the best way to suppress the noise being thrown off by those dimmer switches? I'm guessing that a ferrite choke would take care of the
switching power supply.

Thanks,

Zac
KD5IEF
K2 4907

On Friday, September 07, 2007, at 09:50AM, "Dave Van Wallaghen" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Hey Zac,
>
>That sounds very similar to what my plasma TV emits. I have my window line
>running along the outside wall where the TV is mounted and when it is on, I
>can hear it very plainly. The tone fluctuates with changes with the picture.
>I've also noticed that it peaks at certain frequencies as well.
>
>I was able to detect it as well when operating portable in my yard 100 ft
>away with a separate antenna in a tree. So I know it's not just in the power
>line. It is considerably attenuated out there - but there none the less.
>
>BTW - I have a 50" Panasonic Plasma - beautiful picture and a great RF
>generator.
>
>73,
>Dave W8FGU
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:elecraft-
>> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Brown
>> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 11:48 PM
>> To: Elecraft reflector
>> Subject: [Elecraft] Help with noise on 40m
>>
>> I made a few recordings of some noise that I hear on 40m tonight. The
>> .wav files can be downloaded at the address below. I have no idea what's
>> causing this noise, or how to filter it out. Is this the type of noise
>> that the KDSP2 or KNB2 could remove?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Zac
>> KD5IEF
>>
>> http://homepage.mac.com/zac_brown/FileSharing44.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Post to: [hidden email]
>> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>
>

Zac Brown-2

RE: Help with noise on 40m

In reply to this post by Zac Brown-2

After looking into this further - the noise is still there even with the dimmer switches turned off (circuit is on). Is this normal?

Thanks,

Zac
KD5IEF
K2 4907

On Friday, September 07, 2007, at 09:50AM, "Dave Van Wallaghen" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU

Re: Help with noise on 40m

Administrator

They probably aren't really off. You might wanr to take this to RFI
list (contesting.com), but some report particular brands of Lutron
dimmers are quiet(er). You might be able to justify (to a landlord or
other financial approver) replacing them on an energy basis.
73,
Leigh/WA5ZNU
On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:33 am, Zac Brown wrote:

> After looking into this further - the noise is still there even with
> the dimmer switches turned off (circuit is on). Is this normal?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Zac
> KD5IEF
> K2 4907
>
> On Friday, September 07, 2007, at 09:50AM, "Dave Van Wallaghen"
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hey Zac,
>>
>> That sounds very similar to what my plasma TV emits. I have my window
>> line
>> running along the outside wall where the TV is mounted and when it is
>> on, I
>> can hear it very plainly. The tone fluctuates with changes with the
>> picture.
>> I've also noticed that it peaks at certain frequencies as well.
>>
>> I was able to detect it as well when operating portable in my yard 100
>> ft
>> away with a separate antenna in a tree. So I know it's not just in the
>> power
>> line. It is considerably attenuated out there - but there none the
>> less.
>>
>> BTW - I have a 50" Panasonic Plasma - beautiful picture and a great RF
>> generator.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave W8FGU
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:elecraft-
>>> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Brown
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 11:48 PM
>>> To: Elecraft reflector
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] Help with noise on 40m
>>>
>>> I made a few recordings of some noise that I hear on 40m tonight. The
>>> .wav files can be downloaded at the address below. I have no idea
>>> what's
>>> causing this noise, or how to filter it out. Is this the type of noise
>>> that the KDSP2 or KNB2 could remove?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Zac
>>> KD5IEF
>>>
>>> http://homepage.mac.com/zac_brown/FileSharing44.html
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Post to: [hidden email]
>>> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>>> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
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Phil Kane-2

RE: Help with noise on 40m

In reply to this post by Zac Brown-2

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 11:32:52 -0700, Zac Brown wrote:

>After looking into this further - the noise is still there even
>with the dimmer switches turned off (circuit is on). Is this
>normal?

Yes. Remember that the test procedure is to unplug the device
or turn the circuit breaker off. Modern consumer electronic
gear does not really shut off even when the switch or the
remote control says "off".

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Help with noise on 40m

In reply to this post by Zac Brown-2

Zac,

The dimmer switches can be 'fixed' - remove them, place on a solid
surface and swing at them full force with a hammer :-) . Replacement
with regular light switches will cure their noise. If the CF advocates
have their way, you will have to get rid of them anyway, the CF lamps
that I have encountered do not work with dimmers.

Seriously, I do believe replacement of those particular dimmers is in
order. I have three in the house that do not make apparent RF noise
(but then the antennas are 100 feet away too, which helps). The ones I
have use a slider next to the switch, so they can be turned completely
off. In the past, I have had trouble with ones which have only a slider
or knob for both the 'OFF' position and the adjustment - they never turn
completely off.

73,
Don W3FPR

Zac Brown wrote:
> After shutting off the circuits in my house, it appears that most of the noise is coming from two dimmer switches and a switching power supply.
> The dimmer switches are for lighting and I'm not sure what the power supply is for. It's plugged into an outlet in my closet and is screwed to the wall.
>
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Trevor Smithers

Re: Help with noise on 40m

This little unit might be of interest to anyone trying to track down rfi around the home/shack etc.
http://www.winradio.com/home/erd.htm

73 to all
Trevor G0KTN
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Zac Brown-2

Re: Help with noise on 40m

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

After shutting off all the various circuits in my home, I discovered that the noise is actually coming from the TV in our living room.
The existing dimmer switches are made by Lutron, and are not making much noise after all.

Whenever I plug something into one of the TV's inputs (cable, composite, svideo, etc ... ), the noise appears. I tried adding a bunch of snap-on ferrite chokes on each of the input wires, but this didn't help.

This leads me to think that the TV itself is making the noise (and is radiating it via some other means, not the input wire) whenever it sees an input signal.

The TV is a Hitachi 32 inch, model 32UX59B. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Zac
KD5IEF

On Friday, September 07, 2007, at 03:17PM, "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Zac,
>
>The dimmer switches can be 'fixed' - remove them, place on a solid
>surface and swing at them full force with a hammer :-) . Replacement
>with regular light switches will cure their noise. If the CF advocates
>have their way, you will have to get rid of them anyway, the CF lamps
>that I have encountered do not work with dimmers.
>
>Seriously, I do believe replacement of those particular dimmers is in
>order. I have three in the house that do not make apparent RF noise
>(but then the antennas are 100 feet away too, which helps). The ones I
>have use a slider next to the switch, so they can be turned completely
>off. In the past, I have had trouble with ones which have only a slider
>or knob for both the 'OFF' position and the adjustment - they never turn
>completely off.
>
>73,
>Don W3FPR
>
>Zac Brown wrote:
>> After shutting off the circuits in my house, it appears that most of the noise is coming from two dimmer switches and a switching power supply.
>> The dimmer switches are for lighting and I'm not sure what the power supply is for. It's plugged into an outlet in my closet and is screwed to the wall.
>>
>
>

Phil Kane-2

Re: Help with noise on 40m

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 12:23:04 -0700, Zac Brown wrote:

>After shutting off all the various circuits in my home, I
>discovered that the noise is actually coming from the TV in our
>living room.

I suspected so from the sound.

>This leads me to think that the TV itself is making the noise
>(and is radiating it via some other means, not the input wire)
>whenever it sees an input signal.

Right from the circuit board itself - the plastic cases,
allegedly sprayed with a shielding spray inside, are a
joke.

>The TV is a Hitachi 32 inch, model 32UX59B. Any ideas?

Get ahold of Hitachi technical support and politely request a
solution. The device probably is in violation of FCC Class B
data noise specs, despite any certification that the manufacturer
may claim, and they don't want to be caught with their hand in the
cookie jar.

>Thanks,

Any time.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

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Phil Kane-2

RE: Help with noise on 40m

In reply to this post by Zac Brown-2

On Sat, 8 Sep 2007 15:19:50 -0600, Dale Putnam wrote:

>I wonder, does the same advice apply to Sony? I have the same
>situation, and not had any success with tech support, other than
>the simplistic answer of "turn it off when you are on the radio.
>You can't watch tv and do radio at the same time anyway."
>Obviously my bride and 5 year old don't appreciate that answer at
>all.

Call the FCC Denver District Office (303.231.5205), ask to
speak to one of the Public Contact agents and relate that
experience. They may have some advice for you on how to
proceed. A written complaint may be required, but see what
they say.

There is no reason why you have to put up with that disrespect
from a company whose products cost almost as much as your ham
rig.

Pass my hellos to the whole staff from me. It's been a
while....

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
[FCC District Director (retired)
San Francisco District Office]

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Dave Van Wallaghen

RE: Help with noise on 40m

In reply to this post by Zac Brown-2

Hi Zac,

Yeah, the sound files you put up sounded just like the noise I hear from my
TV. In fact, just yesterday, I was operating portable outside and my wife
had the TV on and I could still pick up some of that noise at over 100 feet
away with a 66' doublet hung up I a tree. I have it fed with open feedline
and no power to the rig except for a battery.

At first I thought it may have been radiated through my power lines. I added
a separate power feed and filter in my shack and it was still there. I then
realized this summer while operating portable that it is radiating in the
air. Not sure what is radiating.

If anyone has tackled this with any success (other than getting rid of the
TV), I too would appreciate the advice. I will take Phil's advice and try to
contact Panasonic - although I have my doubts that anything would come of it
- you never know though. I knew plasma's were noisy when I bought it, but it
would be nice to knock some of it down.

73,
Dave W8FGU

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zac Brown [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 3:23 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Dave Van Wallaghen; 'Elecraft reflector'
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Help with noise on 40m
>
> After shutting off all the various circuits in my home, I discovered that
> the noise is actually coming from the TV in our living room.
> The existing dimmer switches are made by Lutron, and are not making much
> noise after all.
>
> Whenever I plug something into one of the TV's inputs (cable, composite,
> svideo, etc ... ), the noise appears. I tried adding a bunch of snap-on
> ferrite chokes on each of the input wires, but this didn't help.
>
> This leads me to think that the TV itself is making the noise (and is
> radiating it via some other means, not the input wire) whenever it sees an
> input signal.
>
> The TV is a Hitachi 32 inch, model 32UX59B. Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Zac
> KD5IEF
>
>
> On Friday, September 07, 2007, at 03:17PM, "Don Wilhelm"
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >Zac,
> >
> >The dimmer switches can be 'fixed' - remove them, place on a solid
> >surface and swing at them full force with a hammer :-) . Replacement
> >with regular light switches will cure their noise. If the CF advocates
> >have their way, you will have to get rid of them anyway, the CF lamps
> >that I have encountered do not work with dimmers.
> >
> >Seriously, I do believe replacement of those particular dimmers is in
> >order. I have three in the house that do not make apparent RF noise
> >(but then the antennas are 100 feet away too, which helps). The ones I
> >have use a slider next to the switch, so they can be turned completely
> >off. In the past, I have had trouble with ones which have only a slider
> >or knob for both the 'OFF' position and the adjustment - they never turn
> >completely off.
> >
> >73,
> >Don W3FPR
> >
> >Zac Brown wrote:
> >> After shutting off the circuits in my house, it appears that most of
> the noise is coming from two dimmer switches and a switching power supply.
> >> The dimmer switches are for lighting and I'm not sure what the power
> supply is for. It's plugged into an outlet in my closet and is screwed to
> the wall.
> >>
> >
> >