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How effective is VFO -B (SUB) receiver?

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Vince

How effective is VFO -B (SUB) receiver?

Might some reader who uses (1) K-3, (2) KAT-3, the ATU and (3) the KRX3, VFO-B (SUB receiver) tell me how well the second receiver does its job?

Is the quality and strength of sound from VFO-B comparable to VFO-A when operating split?

What EXACT settings do you use for receiving on ANT 1 via VFO-A and transmitting (up two!) using VFO-B for transmitting AND receiving in SPLIT...and using the same antenna. Not using AUX antenna?

My FT1000d gives me essentially the same audio on the left channel as in the right channel in split.

With my K3 I have very low audio from the SUB VFO-B.

Am I expecting too much from the K3? Am I missing something in setting up the K3?

Vince, W1IDL
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Tony Estep

Re: How effective is VFO -B (SUB) receiver?

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 9:52 PM, Vincent OKeeffe <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> ....With my K3 I have very low audio from the SUB VFO-B....
=========
Vince, I don't know exactly how to answer your question, but here's a
very simple thing I've done that really enhanced my split operation.

I enter split via the following macro:
SWT13;SWT13;FT1;UPB5;RT0;XT0;BW$0210;

Note the last command, BW$0210; This sets the bandwidth on the
sub-receiver to 2.1 khz.

For me, this improves split operation considerably. It brings in a
whole bunch of signals in the pileup, so you can much more quickly
home in on the guy who's working the DX. In conjunction with a
panadaptor, this makes it easy to navigate the pile. Moreover, it
brings up the sub-rx audio, and gives it a tone that distinguishes it
from the sound of the DX that you're hearing in the left ear through a
tight filter.

I had the same impression that you have, that the sub-rx had kinda
weak audio out, but this trick made me completely happy. Maybe it'll
work for you.

73,
Tony KTØNY

--
http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352
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Barry Simpson

Re: How effective is VFO -B (SUB) receiver?

In reply to this post by Vince

Hi Vince

I have the sub receiver and it is indistinguishable from the main receiver
when I have both set to the same bandwidth. I suspect that you may have the
attenuator on and/or the pre-amp off in the sub receiver if the difference
is so great.

73

Barry Simpson VK2BJ

On 21 February 2012 03:52, Vincent OKeeffe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Might some reader who uses (1) K-3, (2) KAT-3, the ATU and (3) the KRX3,
> VFO-B (SUB receiver) tell me how well the second receiver does its job?
>
> Is the quality and strength of sound from VFO-B comparable to VFO-A when
> operating split?
>
> What EXACT settings do you use for receiving on ANT 1 via VFO-A and
> transmitting (up two!) using VFO-B for transmitting AND receiving in
> SPLIT...and using the same antenna. Not using AUX antenna?
>
> My FT1000d gives me essentially the same audio on the left channel as in
> the right channel in split.
>
> With my K3 I have very low audio from the SUB VFO-B.
>
> Am I expecting too much from the K3? Am I missing something in setting up
> the K3?
>
> Vince, W1IDL
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

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Mike K2MK

Re: How effective is VFO -B (SUB) receiver?

In reply to this post by Vince

Hi Vince,

The quality and strength of my main and sub receivers are identical. There are several ways in which your setup could be amiss. You can align many of these with macros but lets just look at manual settings for now. I'll assume that you are using headphones. The first step would be to press A-B twice. This will duplicate the settings from VFO-A to VFO-B. Next you must make make sure that your antenna selection and preamp/attenuator settings are identical. There are several ways to observe this which you should review in the manual. You also should make sure that the concentric RF gain knobs are set the same.

There are two settings that will affect the audio level in the left and right ears. First there is a menu setting that determines if the concentric audio knobs independently control the amplitude of VFO-A and VFO-B or if they act to balance the audio between A and B. This is CONFIG:SUB AF.

The other setting is CONFIG:L-MIX-R. This is a little tricky to find in the configuration menu. It's listed alphabetically under MIX. Using this setting you can do the simple thing of having VFO A in the left ear and VFO-B in the right ear or you can have numerous other settings. Perhaps if you were to choose VFO-A in the left AND right ear and VFO-B only in the right ear your brain might perceive that VFO-A is louder than VFO B.

You should also probably make sure that your configuration settings are correct for your installed filters. This can be done from the K3 Utility.

If all of these items fail to help you should definitely contact tech support.

73,
Mike K2MK

Vince wrote

Might some reader who uses (1) K-3, (2) KAT-3, the ATU and (3) the KRX3, VFO-B (SUB receiver) tell me how well the second receiver does its job?

Is the quality and strength of sound from VFO-B comparable to VFO-A when operating split?

What EXACT settings do you use for receiving on ANT 1 via VFO-A and transmitting (up two!) using VFO-B for transmitting AND receiving in SPLIT...and using the same antenna. Not using AUX antenna?

My FT1000d gives me essentially the same audio on the left channel as in the right channel in split.

With my K3 I have very low audio from the SUB VFO-B.

Am I expecting too much from the K3? Am I missing something in setting up the K3?

Vince, W1IDL
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Mike K2MK

Re: How effective is VFO -B (SUB) receiver?

Vince, a few additional thoughts.

I wasn't 100% sure which settings got transferred when you press A-B twice (button #3). I knew that frequency, mode, and filter settings transfered but I was pleased to see that the NR settings, NB settings, and the preamp/attentuator settings do transfer. This stresses the importance of performing this operation when planning to operate split. It goes that extra step to insure that the main and sub receiver are set up in an identical manner.

Macros can be very useful for performing multiple button pushes but I think it is important to understand what is required prior to designing a macro.

73,
Mike K2MK

Mike K2MK wrote

Hi Vince,

The quality and strength of my main and sub receivers are identical. There are several ways in which your setup could be amiss. You can align many of these with macros but lets just look at manual settings for now. I'll assume that you are using headphones. The first step would be to press A-B twice. This will duplicate the settings from VFO-A to VFO-B. Next you must make make sure that your antenna selection and preamp/attenuator settings are identical. There are several ways to observe this which you should review in the manual. You also should make sure that the concentric RF gain knobs are set the same.

There are two settings that will affect the audio level in the left and right ears. First there is a menu setting that determines if the concentric audio knobs independently control the amplitude of VFO-A and VFO-B or if they act to balance the audio between A and B. This is CONFIG:SUB AF.

The other setting is CONFIG:L-MIX-R. This is a little tricky to find in the configuration menu. It's listed alphabetically under MIX. Using this setting you can do the simple thing of having VFO A in the left ear and VFO-B in the right ear or you can have numerous other settings. Perhaps if you were to choose VFO-A in the left AND right ear and VFO-B only in the right ear your brain might perceive that VFO-A is louder than VFO B.

You should also probably make sure that your configuration settings are correct for your installed filters. This can be done from the K3 Utility.

If all of these items fail to help you should definitely contact tech support.

73,
Mike K2MK

Vince wrote

Might some reader who uses (1) K-3, (2) KAT-3, the ATU and (3) the KRX3, VFO-B (SUB receiver) tell me how well the second receiver does its job?

Is the quality and strength of sound from VFO-B comparable to VFO-A when operating split?

What EXACT settings do you use for receiving on ANT 1 via VFO-A and transmitting (up two!) using VFO-B for transmitting AND receiving in SPLIT...and using the same antenna. Not using AUX antenna?

My FT1000d gives me essentially the same audio on the left channel as in the right channel in split.

With my K3 I have very low audio from the SUB VFO-B.

Am I expecting too much from the K3? Am I missing something in setting up the K3?

Vince, W1IDL

Cady, Fred

Re: Was: How effective is VFO -B (SUB) receiver? Now: Macro repository

Hi Mike,
Sometimes when the subject of macros comes up a suggestion is made to
make a repository for them available. I've kind of started that at
http://www.ke7x.com/home/k3-macro-repository. Sounds like you have a lot
of neat macros. Would you be willing to share them with me and I can
post them up?
Thanks
Fred KE7X

Macros can be very useful for performing multiple button pushes but I
think it is important to understand what is required prior to designing
a macro.

73,
Mike K2MK

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Gary Ferdinand

Re: How effective is VFO -B (SUB) receiver?

In reply to this post by Vince

Vince,

I have a loaded K3. I use split frequently when working DX. Think of them
as two complete receivers, not merely two VFOs. While it is quite possible
to have totally independent and different settings, for that type of split
op I frequently match the two receivers in every respect by double-tapping
the A->B button. This transfers not only A's frequency, but also A's
settings (bandwidth, frequency, shift, etc.). After a period of adjustment,
I find that using the A,Ab audio split settings into my headset most
effective. I listen to A (the DX) in both ears, while I monitor my transmit
frequency (the subrx) on my right ear. Since when I use the Subrx I have
the settings copied from the main rx, I detect zero difference in quality.
Strength of sound is selectable. When the subrx is on, I have the AF Gain
control for the subrx set up to be a "balance" control, so I can vary the
relative audio volume of the two. I find I pretty much balance the two, and
let the A,Ab setting do the aural differentiation for me. I should quickly
note that my roofing filters and their configurations are also identical for
sub and main receivers.

Both use ANT1 for Tx and Rx. It is VERY easy to inadvertently get the two
receivers on different antennas. Use b_set to verify the sub is actually
using the antenna you thought it was both for rx and tx.

If you have low audio from the sub receiver (with all respect it is best to
think of that little knob as a receiver versus a VFO), I suggest you first
make certain you have done the double (or sometimes triple) tap of the A>B
button. If you have vastly different settings, perhaps inadvertently set,
between the two receivers, there can be quite a difference in sound and
performance. Once you are certain you've set the subrx to the setting of
the main rx (the double tap will respond with an A>B ALL message), then it's
time to verify what filter differences in physical configuration you have.
For example if you have only the 2.7 kHz filter in the subrx and a whole
array of filters in the main rx (or vice versa), the subrx will "sound" and
perform quite differently of course. Similarly, even with identical filters
in the two receivers, if the gain and/or offsets of the filters (as set best
in the K3 utility) are vastly different, and incorrectly so, so might be the
results. Also, the obvious but sometimes forgotten RF Gain control... make
sure the subrx's RF gain is similar to that of the main until you solve your
problem.

If all this is ruled out as to why the two receivers sound vastly different,
try checking your audio settings.

By HOLDING config you gain access to the configuration menu. Here are some
interesting settings.

L-MIX-R : I set this to A,Ab as described above
SPKRS: This is for external speakers-read the info note on page 20 of your
K3 manual
SUB AF: I use this set to balance rather than normal, so I can more easily
adjust the relative volumes of the two receivers.
SQ: Make sure you don't have the subrx squelched.
Check out the troubleshooting section on page 65. It suggests checking
settings for AF GAIN (HI) and RX EQ settings in addition to the above.

Configured properly and with identical filters the sub and main receivers
are identical in pretty much all respects other than the size of the knob.
..and everyone says size doesn't matter ... ;-)

HTH/73

Gary W2CS

Bob K6UJ

Re: How effective is VFO -B (SUB) receiver?

Correct me if I am wrong but I think double tapping A>B button matches both receivers on everything
except the NB and NR settings. To match the settings also you need to press and hold the A/B button.

Bob
K6UJ

On Feb 21, 2012, at 6:40 AM, Gary Ferdinand wrote:

> Vince,
>
> I have a loaded K3. I use split frequently when working DX. Think of them
> as two complete receivers, not merely two VFOs. While it is quite possible
> to have totally independent and different settings, for that type of split
> op I frequently match the two receivers in every respect by double-tapping
> the A->B button. This transfers not only A's frequency, but also A's
> settings (bandwidth, frequency, shift, etc.). After a period of adjustment,
> I find that using the A,Ab audio split settings into my headset most
> effective. I listen to A (the DX) in both ears, while I monitor my transmit
> frequency (the subrx) on my right ear. Since when I use the Subrx I have
> the settings copied from the main rx, I detect zero difference in quality.
> Strength of sound is selectable. When the subrx is on, I have the AF Gain
> control for the subrx set up to be a "balance" control, so I can vary the
> relative audio volume of the two. I find I pretty much balance the two, and
> let the A,Ab setting do the aural differentiation for me. I should quickly
> note that my roofing filters and their configurations are also identical for
> sub and main receivers.
>
> Both use ANT1 for Tx and Rx. It is VERY easy to inadvertently get the two
> receivers on different antennas. Use b_set to verify the sub is actually
> using the antenna you thought it was both for rx and tx.
>
> If you have low audio from the sub receiver (with all respect it is best to
> think of that little knob as a receiver versus a VFO), I suggest you first
> make certain you have done the double (or sometimes triple) tap of the A>B
> button. If you have vastly different settings, perhaps inadvertently set,
> between the two receivers, there can be quite a difference in sound and
> performance. Once you are certain you've set the subrx to the setting of
> the main rx (the double tap will respond with an A>B ALL message), then it's
> time to verify what filter differences in physical configuration you have.
> For example if you have only the 2.7 kHz filter in the subrx and a whole
> array of filters in the main rx (or vice versa), the subrx will "sound" and
> perform quite differently of course. Similarly, even with identical filters
> in the two receivers, if the gain and/or offsets of the filters (as set best
> in the K3 utility) are vastly different, and incorrectly so, so might be the
> results. Also, the obvious but sometimes forgotten RF Gain control... make
> sure the subrx's RF gain is similar to that of the main until you solve your
> problem.
>
> If all this is ruled out as to why the two receivers sound vastly different,
> try checking your audio settings.
>
> By HOLDING config you gain access to the configuration menu. Here are some
> interesting settings.
>
> L-MIX-R : I set this to A,Ab as described above
> SPKRS: This is for external speakers-read the info note on page 20 of your
> K3 manual
> SUB AF: I use this set to balance rather than normal, so I can more easily
> adjust the relative volumes of the two receivers.
> SQ: Make sure you don't have the subrx squelched.
> Check out the troubleshooting section on page 65. It suggests checking
> settings for AF GAIN (HI) and RX EQ settings in addition to the above.
>
> Configured properly and with identical filters the sub and main receivers
> are identical in pretty much all respects other than the size of the knob.
> ..and everyone says size doesn't matter ... ;-)
>
> HTH/73
>
> Gary W2CS
>
>
>> Might some reader who uses (1) K-3, (2) KAT-3, the ATU and (3) the KRX3,
>> VFO-B (SUB receiver) tell me how well the second receiver does its job?
>>
>> Is the quality and strength of sound from VFO-B comparable to VFO-A when
>> operating split?
>>
>> What EXACT settings do you use for receiving on ANT 1 via VFO-A and
>> transmitting (up two!) using VFO-B for transmitting AND receiving in
>> SPLIT...and using the same antenna. Not using AUX antenna?
>>
>> My FT1000d gives me essentially the same audio on the left channel as in
>> the right channel in split.
>>
>> With my K3 I have very low audio from the SUB VFO-B.
>>
>> Am I expecting too much from the K3? Am I missing something in setting
>> up the K3?
>>
>> Vince, W1IDL
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html