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I don't think I'm getting out

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EMD

I don't think I'm getting out

Hello,

I think I might have a problem with K2 7109. I arranged to call another K2 owner on 40 meters and was not heard, additionally I did not receive his call. So I'm not sure if it was propagation or my radio. What makes me wonder is I have called on the SKCC Elmer frequencies with no response over the last few days at different times of the day. I have another receiver that seems to pick up my transmissions but I don't know if that would be a really good check if things are working as they should.

So where do I go from here?

73,
Ed KE7HGA

Mike WA8BXN

Re: I don't think I'm getting out

It could well be band conditions. What do you have for an antenna? How far
away was the other station?

If you have a watt meter, you might check to see you are getting the proper
power output.

Check all the settings, for example having RIT or XIT on unexpectedly might
make getting contacts difficult.

73 - Mike WA8BXN

-------Original Message-------

From: EMD
Date: 08/11/11 21:12:26
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] I don't think I'm getting out

Hello,

I think I might have a problem with K2 7109. I arranged to call another K2
Owner on 40 meters and was not heard, additionally I did not receive his
Call. So I'm not sure if it was propagation or my radio. What makes me
Wonder is I have called on the SKCC Elmer frequencies with no response over
The last few days at different times of the day. I have another receiver
That seems to pick up my transmissions but I don't know if that would be a
Really good check if things are working as they should.

So where do I go from here?

73,
Ed KE7HGA
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EMD

Re: I don't think I'm getting out

Hello Mike,

The station I was trying to contact is 425 miles to the Northwest of my location. 40m propagation seemed good, I was receiving other stations on 40m. I'm using a long wire for now and was putting 3 watts out according to the power reading.

I don't have a watt meter but MFJ has a QRP meter which I'm going to buy unless you can recommend a better one.

I don't think RIT or XIT was active.

Thanks for the reply,

73,
Ed KE7HGA

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: I don't think I'm getting out

In reply to this post by EMD

Ed,

First trial, connect a dummy load and do a TUNE - what does the K2
display tell you? It should be close to the requested power and with an
SWR of 1.0. If your dummy load is the Elecraft DL1, measure the voltage
at the diode and calculate the power output from that.

The above will tell you if your K2 is capable of driving a 50 ohm load.
Next, tune your antenna (using an antenna analyzer) to indicate 50 ohms
resistive and as close to zero ohms reactive as you can obtain. If the
K2 worked into the dummy load, it should also load that tuned antenna load.

All the rest depends on propagation. If you are working with another
ham where you also have an alternate communications path (telephone or
email or VHF), try increasing your power until you are heard - or start
at 10 or 12 watts and work until you cannot be heard.

A lot depends on the ambient noise level at the receiving location -
your signal must have enough power at the receiving antenna to be
greater than that noise level.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/11/2011 9:12 PM, EMD wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I think I might have a problem with K2 7109. I arranged to call another K2
> owner on 40 meters and was not heard, additionally I did not receive his
> call. So I'm not sure if it was propagation or my radio. What makes me
> wonder is I have called on the SKCC Elmer frequencies with no response over
> the last few days at different times of the day. I have another receiver
> that seems to pick up my transmissions but I don't know if that would be a
> really good check if things are working as they should.
>
> So where do I go from here?
>
>

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EMD

Re: I don't think I'm getting out

Don,

I do have the Elecraft dummy load so I will look into that. I will also try going to 10 watts and work down.

I don't have an antenna analyzer at this time, sounds like something else I will need to pick up.

I'm using a 32' wire with a 16' counterpose which is hanging out an upstairs window horizontally.

73,
Ed KE7HGA

Guy, K2AV

Re: I don't think I'm getting out

Ed,

A 32' wire with a 16' counterpoise is not a resonant antenna on 40
meters. It will not load well unless you have an antenna tuner to
turn it into 50 ohms. I have a KAT2 in my K2 #1239 to allow me to use
"miscellaneous" antennas. I am assuming that by your calling it a
"counterpoise" it is not laying on the ground. A counterpoise laying
on the ground is a special case that has all kinds of loss issues to
work around to prevent overwhelmingly bad results.

See what happens when you lengthen the counterpoise to 32 feet. It
does not have to be in a straight line and can be bent to get the
length.

73, Guy.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 10:11 PM, EMD <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Don,
>
> I do have the Elecraft dummy load so I will look into that. I will also try
> going to 10 watts and work down.
>
> I don't have an antenna analyzer at this time, sounds like something else I
> will need to pick up.
>
> I'm using a 32' wire with a 16' counterpose which is hanging out an upstairs
> window horizontally.
>
> 73,
> Ed KE7HGA
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/I-don-t-think-I-m-getting-out-tp6678845p6678986.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: I don't think I'm getting out

In reply to this post by EMD

Ed,

As an alternative to the antenna analyzer, use TUNE on the K2 and adjust
the antenna tuning unit for the lowest SWR possible - note what that is
- and if it is 1.0, the K2 will indicate the power output properly.

Note that the base K2 uses only a diode detector. What that means is if
the antenna impedance is anything other than 50 ohms resistive, the
actual power and the power level that is controlled by the K2 may be
vastly different. The KAT2 adds a true wattmeter function that is
relatively independent of SWR (if properly balanced and calibrated).

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/11/2011 10:11 PM, EMD wrote:

EMD

Re: I don't think I'm getting out

In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV

Guy

Thanks for the advice. I think I'm getting out okay. I hooked up my MFJ-267 Watt meter dummy load and when I have the power set to 10 watts I'm getting close to 10 watts forward but the reflected is about 5 so that tells me the antenna is the issue. I have a KAT2 ready to install so I would bet I will get better results once I install the tuner. I will lengthen the counterpoise to 32' and see what happens. Since I'm upstairs in a spare bedroom as an office /shack should I run the counterpoise on the floor, which I'm doing now or hang it out the window? I don't think hanging out the window is the right idea.

Thanks again.

73,
Ed ke7hga

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: I don't think I'm getting out

Ed,

Hanging it out the window is the best idea.

That "counterpoise" is the other half of your 40 meter antenna - so if
you want best results, put it up in the air at whatever height you can
manage - treat it like an antenna radiator - because that is exactly
what it is.

Caution: an antenna with 32 foot elements each side of the feedpoint
will present a high feedpoint impedance on 20 meters - so if you have
trouble feeding it on 20, that is the problem. It should respond quite
nicely on 15 meters where it is approximately 3/2 wavelengths long.

The challenge is to use an antenna (or antenna and tuner combination)
that will present a 50 ohm resistive load to the transceiver. In the
old days of transmitters with PI network output tank circuits, we have
enough matching capability in the transmitter output to allow tuning
into a variety of loads. Modern transceivers are designed to operate
properly into a 50 ohm load. The Tuning elements to match an antenna to
that 50 ohm requirement have been moved into the ATU - whether that be a
manual tuner or an automatic tuner. We still have to have some means of
matching the output of the transmitter load impedance to the antenna
feedpoint impedance. The alternate solution is to have a resonant
dipole for each band that presents a 50 ohm load to the transmitter.
That is not practical for everyone. Even the much acclaimed G5RV does
not have an SWR of 1:1 on all bands.

The reason I mention this is that the KAT2 will have the most trouble
matching high impedance loads. As a compromise, extend both sides of
the antenna to 44 feet, or better yet, use the W3EDP lengths of 85 feet
with a 17 foot "counterpoise" - that will create something like an
off-center-fed 80 meter antenna that is usable on most HF bands (with a
tuner like the KAT2).

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/11/2011 10:59 PM, EMD wrote:

> Guy
>
> Thanks for the advice. I think I'm getting out okay. I hooked up my
> MFJ-267 Watt meter dummy load and when I have the power set to 10 watts I'm
> getting close to 10 watts forward but the reflected is about 5 so that tells
> me the antenna is the issue. I have a KAT2 ready to install so I would bet
> I will get better results once I install the tuner. I will lengthen the
> counterpoise to 32' and see what happens. Since I'm upstairs in a spare
> bedroom as an office /shack should I run the counterpoise on the floor,
> which I'm doing now or hang it out the window? I don't think hanging out
> the window is the right idea.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> 73,
> Ed ke7hga
>

EMD

Re: I don't think I'm getting out

Don,

Thanks for the information. I will follow your advice. I know the wire antenna is not the best but for the time being it's all I can come up with. I also think I will go ahead and install the KAT2 since it is complete and ready for installation and would solve some of my impedance issues.

73,
Ed ke7hga

Guy, K2AV

Re: I don't think I'm getting out

85/17 or 43/9 is a good multiband antenna for use with a KAT2. I have
found my KAT2 capable of matching loads that I couldn't match with my
stand-alone QRO tuners. I have a K2/10 with battery and KAT2 for all
kinds of portable uses including my RV. I have a separate
KPA100/KAT100 in an EC2 that I dock it with for home use.

On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 4:51 AM, EMD <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Don,
>
> Thanks for the information. I will follow your advice. I know the wire
> antenna is not the best but for the time being it's all I can come up with.
> I also think I will go ahead and install the KAT2 since it is complete and
> ready for installation and would solve some of my impedance issues.
>
> 73,
> Ed ke7hga
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/I-don-t-think-I-m-getting-out-tp6678845p6679676.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>