Elecraft

I love toroids

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Jeremiah McCarthy

I love toroids

While we are on the subject of toroids, I would like to point out something I have encountered while up-grading pre-built K2's... Toroids can be wound backwards, and when this is done to vertically mounted toroids, the wire leads, as they exit the center of the core, are on the wrong side of the toroid...The "fix" is to pass the wire under the core to the other side so it reaches the solder pad...This adds another turn to the toroid, 1/2 a turn at each end...Also, the toroid is not secure and is free to move around which might result in wire fatigue, especially in a portable, mobile, or back-packing environment where vibration is present...

One of the radios I up-graded had evidently been dropped and landed upside down...The miswound toroids were standing up off the board by about 1/2 inch and had rotated 1/2 turn because the wires were pulled taut by the G force...

If a toroid has been wound backwards, it is best to strip it and rewind it correctly...

Jerry, wa2dkg
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k6dgw

Re: I love toroids

My experience is that the diagrams in the Elecraft manuals (and PCB
layouts) are intrinsically right-handed, and if you are left-handed as I
am and don't really study the task well, you are likely to wind it
backwards. For each new set of toroids I need to wind, I usually
practice a couple of times with some loose hookup wire to make sure I
still remember the moves.

If my memory serves me, there really is no such thing as a 1/2 turn ...
each pass thru the donut is a turn. But then, my memory serves me less
and less these days.

73,

Fred K6DGW
Auburn CA CM98lw

Jeremiah McCarthy wrote:
> While we are on the subject of toroids, I would like to point out
> something I have encountered while up-grading pre-built K2's...
> toroids can be wound backwards, ...

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Ron D'Eau Claire-2

RE: I love toroids

Fred, K6DGW, wrote:
If my memory serves me, there really is no such thing as a 1/2 turn ...
each pass thru the donut is a turn. But then, my memory serves me less
and less these days.

-------------------

That's correct. There are no partial turns on a toroid.

As a leftie I had to overcome the same "sense" issue. Then came the T1! One
toroid in the T1 has only three turns, close spaced, so they end up using
only a small part of the core. The turns occupy the area of the core
normally left open on a toroid. As a result, the "sense" of the winding is
reversed! You have to wind that one "backwards" to make the leads lie up
with the pads on the board.

Oh, well, as Emerson wrote, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of
little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With
consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern
himself with his shadow on the wall." ... Or, I might add, concern himself
with why the toroid leads don't match the holes in the PCB.

Ron AC7AC

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Robert Friess

Re: I love toroids

Maybe we who use the correct hand, i.e. the left one, should unite and
demand left-handed pc layouts and manuals as a no-cost option.

73,
Bob, N6CM

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]>
To: "'Elecraft Reflector'" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] I love toroids

> Fred, K6DGW, wrote:
> If my memory serves me, there really is no such thing as a 1/2 turn ...
> each pass thru the donut is a turn. But then, my memory serves me less
> and less these days.
>
> -------------------
>
> That's correct. There are no partial turns on a toroid.
>
> As a leftie I had to overcome the same "sense" issue. Then came the T1!
> One
> toroid in the T1 has only three turns, close spaced, so they end up using
> only a small part of the core. The turns occupy the area of the core
> normally left open on a toroid. As a result, the "sense" of the winding is
> reversed! You have to wind that one "backwards" to make the leads lie up
> with the pads on the board.
>
> Oh, well, as Emerson wrote, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of
> little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
> With
> consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern
> himself with his shadow on the wall." ... Or, I might add, concern himself
> with why the toroid leads don't match the holes in the PCB.
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
>
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>
>

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W7RY

Re: I love toroids

I disagree with the left hand right hand issue. I'm very right handed and
wound the toroids of my 1st K2 back words. However, when winding the set
for my current K2, I had to make a concise effort to wind them correctly
and it was awkward to do so.

BTW, I travel frequently for work so I brought all of the toroids and wire
on my recent trip. I sat at the desk in the hotel room and wound them all.
I did not strip and tin the leads... To much smoke. I was afraid of setting
off the smoke detectors.

Hey Elecraft! Why not put a separate section into the manual that describes
what core, what L or T number and the number of turns on each core. That
way, one can "pre-wind" all of the toroidal coils at the same time and not
have to stop and wind?

Just my 2cents worth.

73
Jim W7RY
K2 4914. (Heading down the finish line)

PS my K2 is now operational as a receiver on 40 meters. Works great!

At 09:44 AM 6/11/2005, Robert Friess wrote:

>Maybe we who use the correct hand, i.e. the left one, should unite and
>demand left-handed pc layouts and manuals as a no-cost option.
>
>73,
>Bob, N6CM
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]>
>To: "'Elecraft Reflector'" <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 9:40 AM
>Subject: RE: [Elecraft] I love toroids
>
>
>>Fred, K6DGW, wrote:
>>If my memory serves me, there really is no such thing as a 1/2 turn ...
>>each pass thru the donut is a turn. But then, my memory serves me less
>>and less these days.
>>
>>-------------------
>>
>>That's correct. There are no partial turns on a toroid.
>>
>>As a leftie I had to overcome the same "sense" issue. Then came the T1! One
>>toroid in the T1 has only three turns, close spaced, so they end up using
>>only a small part of the core. The turns occupy the area of the core
>>normally left open on a toroid. As a result, the "sense" of the winding is
>>reversed! You have to wind that one "backwards" to make the leads lie up
>>with the pads on the board.
>>
>>Oh, well, as Emerson wrote, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of
>>little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With
>>consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern
>>himself with his shadow on the wall." ... Or, I might add, concern himself
>>with why the toroid leads don't match the holes in the PCB.
>>
>>Ron AC7AC
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Elecraft mailing list
>>Post to: [hidden email]
>>You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>>Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>
>>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>>Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>>
>
>
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Jim K4ZMV

Re: I love toroids

I, also, am very right handed. I wound the toroids without much thought
about the 'right way'. My K2 #4901 is running perfectly and checked out at
each alignment stage. Maybe I wound them 'correctly', but I don't really
think whether the lead comes over the top of the core or from under it makes
much difference. The difference would occur if you had more or less turns
going through the core. I've tried reading the inductance of a toroid with
a wire just sitting on top or under the core and as you may have guessed,
the inductance is lower than I can measure with a darn good DMM.

My 2 cents.

73

Jim, K4ZMV
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim W7RY" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] I love toroids

>I disagree with the left hand right hand issue. I'm very right handed and
>wound the toroids of my 1st K2 back words. However, when winding the set
>for my current K2, I had to make a concise effort to wind them correctly
>and it was awkward to do so.
>
> BTW, I travel frequently for work so I brought all of the toroids and wire
> on my recent trip. I sat at the desk in the hotel room and wound them all.
> I did not strip and tin the leads... To much smoke. I was afraid of
> setting off the smoke detectors.
>
> Hey Elecraft! Why not put a separate section into the manual that
> describes what core, what L or T number and the number of turns on each
> core. That way, one can "pre-wind" all of the toroidal coils at the same
> time and not have to stop and wind?
>
>
> Just my 2cents worth.
>
> 73
> Jim W7RY
> K2 4914. (Heading down the finish line)
>
> PS my K2 is now operational as a receiver on 40 meters. Works great!
>
>
>
>
> At 09:44 AM 6/11/2005, Robert Friess wrote:
>>Maybe we who use the correct hand, i.e. the left one, should unite and
>>demand left-handed pc layouts and manuals as a no-cost option.
>>
>>73,
>>Bob, N6CM
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron D'Eau Claire"
>><[hidden email]>
>>To: "'Elecraft Reflector'" <[hidden email]>
>>Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 9:40 AM
>>Subject: RE: [Elecraft] I love toroids
>>
>>
>>>Fred, K6DGW, wrote:
>>>If my memory serves me, there really is no such thing as a 1/2 turn ...
>>>each pass thru the donut is a turn. But then, my memory serves me less
>>>and less these days.
>>>
>>>-------------------
>>>
>>>That's correct. There are no partial turns on a toroid.
>>>
>>>As a leftie I had to overcome the same "sense" issue. Then came the T1!
>>>One
>>>toroid in the T1 has only three turns, close spaced, so they end up using
>>>only a small part of the core. The turns occupy the area of the core
>>>normally left open on a toroid. As a result, the "sense" of the winding
>>>is
>>>reversed! You have to wind that one "backwards" to make the leads lie up
>>>with the pads on the board.
>>>
>>>Oh, well, as Emerson wrote, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of
>>>little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
>>>With
>>>consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern
>>>himself with his shadow on the wall." ... Or, I might add, concern
>>>himself
>>>with why the toroid leads don't match the holes in the PCB.
>>>
>>>Ron AC7AC
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Elecraft mailing list
>>>Post to: [hidden email]
>>>You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>>>Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>>>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>
>>>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>>>Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
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Nigel A. Gunn G8IFF/KC8NHF

Re: I love toroids

In reply to this post by Jeremiah McCarthy

Jeremiah McCarthy wrote:

>This adds another turn to the toroid, 1/2 a turn at each end..
>
No. You can't have half a turn on a toroid. It's only an extrsa turn if
it passes through the middle. You can do as you please with the ends.

>
>If a toroid has been wound backwards, it is best to strip it and rewind it correctly...
>
Agreed.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Nigel A. Gunn. 59 Beadlemead, Milton Keynes, MK6 4HF, England.
Tel +44 (0)1908 604004
e-mail [hidden email] or [hidden email]
www http://www.ngunn.net or http://www.ngunn.demon.co.uk
Amateur radio stations G8IFF, KC8NHF
Member of AMSAT-UK #182, ARRL, GQRP Club, QRPARCI, SOC #548 RAYNET
Flying Pig #385, Dayton ARA #2128, AMSAT-NA LM-1691,
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

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