Is CW a Language?

[k6dgw]

In the "prosign thread," it has been suggested that Morse Code (which,
if the world were even remotely fair, would be the Vail Code) is a
language.  Fortuitously, I was about to have lunch with an old friend
who retired as a Professor of Linguistics, so I asked him over my patty
melt, "Does Morse code class as a language?"  He said, "Hmmm, that's
something I've never thought about.  Probably not.  I would put Morse
code in the class of phonetic alphabets, where the sounds equate to
symbols in a symbolic alphabet that can be combined to form elements
(i.e. 'words') in any language that employs that symbolic alphabet.
Interesting question, though.  I'll have to think about that."  Never
expect a short answer from a retired professor.

Above about 20 WPM or so, CW does become sort of a 'language' for me ...
I hear words, not letters, but the real 'language' is still English of
course.  The fantastic QSK on my K2 (far better than any other QSK rig I
have used) only enhances the effect.

As a teenager, several of my buddies and I learned American Morse and
would get on 80 meters in the evening and use it in a round table ... it
was really meant for telegraph sounders (clicks and clacks) rather than
radio (dots and dashes) and was a little awkward on the radio, however
we all had a burning desire to just fake out other stations.  I like to
think I've matured some in my choice of amusements since then.  Andrea
has a slightly different opinion on the subject of male maturity,
especially mine.

I defer to the historians on the origin(s) of "CQ," but it reminds me of
the old (likely apochraphyl) story of the ham on AM who lived next to a
church and had a problem with RFI to the electric organ.  Calling "CQ
DX" one Sunday morning, he noticed the parishoners madly streaming out
of the church.  Later that day, he asked the minister what had happened,
andh the minister replied, "They thought they heard the voice of God
saying 'Seek You The Exit,' and they left in panic."

73,

Fred K6DGW
Auburn CA CM98lw
K2/100 #4398
KX1 #897
(and a growing inventory of other Elecraft stuff)
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[Mark J. Schreiner]

I've heard (and sent) German CW as well (although I'm somewhat limited in that regard).  

I think that if CW were to be classified as a part of the English language it should then be considered a dialect of it, HI HI!  

>From: Fred Jensen <[hidden email]>
>Date: Thu Jan 12 13:21:08 CST 2006
>To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
>Subject: [Elecraft] Is CW a Language?

>In the "prosign thread," it has been suggested that Morse Code (which,
>if the world were even remotely fair, would be the Vail Code) is a
>language.  Fortuitously, I was about to have lunch with an old friend
>who retired as a Professor of Linguistics, so I asked him over my patty
>melt, "Does Morse code class as a language?"  He said, "Hmmm, that's
>something I've never thought about.  Probably not.  I would put Morse
>code in the class of phonetic alphabets, where the sounds equate to
>symbols in a symbolic alphabet that can be combined to form elements
>(i.e. 'words') in any language that employs that symbolic alphabet.
>Interesting question, though.  I'll have to think about that."  Never
>expect a short answer from a retired professor.
>
>Above about 20 WPM or so, CW does become sort of a 'language' for me ...
>I hear words, not letters, but the real 'language' is still English of
>course.  The fantastic QSK on my K2 (far better than any other QSK rig I
>have used) only enhances the effect.

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[Craig Rairdin]

> I would put Morse
> code in the class of phonetic alphabets, where the sounds equate
> to symbols in a symbolic alphabet that can be combined to form
> elements (i.e. 'words') in any language that employs that symbolic
> alphabet.

> Above about 20 WPM or so, CW does become sort of a 'language'
> for me ... I hear words, not letters, but the real 'language' is
> still English of course.  

I agree with the professor. I would equate the phenomena of recognizing
entire words when receiving at high speed to the recognition of printed
words by their "shape" when reading. None of us stops to sound out every
word we read phonetically, yet that's how they (or most of them) are really
constructed. We see the word in its entirety and instantly know what it is
and what it means.

This doesn't make printed text into a language distinct from English (or
Spanish or French or whatever), it is just a characteristic of a person who
is fluent with the language.

Just as printed English has its own "idioms" -- like indenting paragraphs,
starting a chapter with a large capital letter, marking footnotes with
superscripted numbers, etc. -- CW has also developed idioms that are unique
to it. "fb", "om", "73", etc. evolved not so much because they represent
commonly used words and phrases, but because brevity is an asset when
communicating in Morse Code.

The idioms don't always translate well into other modes of conveying the
language. While we do say some of them ("73's", "XYL", and "QSO" come to
mind), we don't say most of them ("es", "BT", "fb", etc.). I would argue
that saying most of these sounds about as dumb as someone saying "lol" when
you tell a joke. Just laugh out loud, it's more natural.

Almost none of the print idioms translate into conversation. We don't raise
our hand to indicate a footnote as we talk. We don't move our head slightly
to the right when starting a new paragraph.

The point is that prosigns, abbreviations, q-signals, and other components
of CW don't make it a unique language. They just add expressiveness, just as
punctuation marks do in print.

All that to say that CW isn't a language. It's an alphabet. :-)

Craig
NZ0R
K1 #1966
K2/100 #4941

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[Sverre Holm-2]

> -----Original Message-----
> .... Linguistics, so I asked him over my patty melt, "Does Morse
> code class as a language?"  He said, "Hmmm, that's something
> I've never thought about.  Probably not.  I would put Morse
> code in the class of phonetic alphabets,

Very good point which I was about to make myself, although you made it much
better.

I hear German, French, Dutch, various slavic languages, mixed
Swedish/Norwegian/Danish and so on sent in morse code in addition to
English. Some of this is totally incomprehensible although I can copy the
letters.

Possibly the prosigns, Q-codes etc qualify as a very rudimentary sort of
pidgin language. And as some have indicated in this thread, this pidgin is
slowly changing and evolving like any other natural language.

The letters themselves clearly are nothing but an alphabet, complete with
special signs for non-English letters. As an example, for local QSOs I
regularly have to use ---. , .--.- , and .-.- in order to map Scandinavian
language(s) to the morse code alphabet.


73

Sverre
LA3ZA
http://www.qslnet.de/la3za/
 

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[Sandy W5TVW]

Morse telegraphy  (landline OR wireless versions.)  IS definitely a LIVING LANGUAGE!  No doubt!
Perhaps one of the most universal living languages today.  Unlike learning
say German, French, Latin or whatever, if you write using the Latin
alphabet, you can transmit to another and receive any message
regardless of the sender's or the receiver's language!

It is extremely unique in this regard.  Telegraph operators that used to be
on ships could send messages in whatever language (plain text or cipher)
and communicate even though, basically, they couldn't speak or write
or read the language they were sending via Morse!

Even prisoners used it in prison camps by tapping on walls or pipes.

You must learn it like any different language from your native one
to make use of it.  It takes practice and more practice.  I know it ain't
easy!  (But then could you converse with other people when you were
a baby or a young tyke?  It took practice and more practice!)

Hopefully, the present people running the ITU, ARRL, FCC and other
entities, will preserve this VERY unique method of communication.
It's slow...yes,  it's "old"...yes, but it ain't obsolete!

My 2 penny's worth!

73,

Sandy W5TVW

(Yeah, I had a helluva time learning it and hated it at first!  But it's just about
all I use to QSO on the "wireless" today!)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Jensen" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 1:21 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Is CW a Language?


| In the "prosign thread," it has been suggested that Morse Code (which,
| if the world were even remotely fair, would be the Vail Code) is a
| language.  Fortuitously, I was about to have lunch with an old friend
| who retired as a Professor of Linguistics, so I asked him over my patty
| melt, "Does Morse code class as a language?"  He said, "Hmmm, that's
| something I've never thought about.  Probably not.  I would put Morse
| code in the class of phonetic alphabets, where the sounds equate to
| symbols in a symbolic alphabet that can be combined to form elements
| (i.e. 'words') in any language that employs that symbolic alphabet.
| Interesting question, though.  I'll have to think about that."  Never
| expect a short answer from a retired professor.
|
| Above about 20 WPM or so, CW does become sort of a 'language' for me ...
| I hear words, not letters, but the real 'language' is still English of
| course.  The fantastic QSK on my K2 (far better than any other QSK rig I
| have used) only enhances the effect.
|
| As a teenager, several of my buddies and I learned American Morse and
| would get on 80 meters in the evening and use it in a round table ... it
| was really meant for telegraph sounders (clicks and clacks) rather than
| radio (dots and dashes) and was a little awkward on the radio, however
| we all had a burning desire to just fake out other stations.  I like to
| think I've matured some in my choice of amusements since then.  Andrea
| has a slightly different opinion on the subject of male maturity,
| especially mine.
|
| I defer to the historians on the origin(s) of "CQ," but it reminds me of
| the old (likely apochraphyl) story of the ham on AM who lived next to a
| church and had a problem with RFI to the electric organ.  Calling "CQ
| DX" one Sunday morning, he noticed the parishoners madly streaming out
| of the church.  Later that day, he asked the minister what had happened,
| andh the minister replied, "They thought they heard the voice of God
| saying 'Seek You The Exit,' and they left in panic."
|
| 73,
|
| Fred K6DGW
| Auburn CA CM98lw
| K2/100 #4398
| KX1 #897
| (and a growing inventory of other Elecraft stuff)
| _______________________________________________
| Elecraft mailing list
| Post to: [hidden email]
| You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
| Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
|  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   
|
| Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
| Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
|
|
|
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[Craig Rairdin]

It's a small point, but CW is at best an alphabet, not a language. Your
examples prove it. It can be used to convey a message in any language that
shares the characters it represents. You could use a typewriter to create a
document when handed a written message in any language that shares the same
characters that are represented on the typewriter. You're not translating;
you're transcribing.

The same attributes you cite for Morse would apply to the American English
alphabet (the letters a-z with no diacriticals). It can be used to convey
messages in English, Hawaiian, and one other language I'll leave as an
exercise for the reader. But it's an alphabet, not a language.

You could also make the same statement with respect to Unicode. Unicode is a
standard way used by computers to represent letters and ideograms of all the
world's languages. You can give me a message in literally any language and I
can represent it in Unicode. But Unicode isn't a language; it's just a
universal alphabet.

Craig
NZ0R

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sandy W5TVW
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 4:56 PM
To: [hidden email]; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is CW a Language?


Morse telegraphy  (landline OR wireless versions.)  IS definitely a LIVING
LANGUAGE!  No doubt!
Perhaps one of the most universal living languages today.  Unlike learning
say German, French, Latin or whatever, if you write using the Latin
alphabet, you can transmit to another and receive any message
regardless of the sender's or the receiver's language!

It is extremely unique in this regard.  Telegraph operators that used to be
on ships could send messages in whatever language (plain text or cipher)
and communicate even though, basically, they couldn't speak or write
or read the language they were sending via Morse!

Even prisoners used it in prison camps by tapping on walls or pipes.

You must learn it like any different language from your native one
to make use of it.  It takes practice and more practice.  I know it ain't
easy!  (But then could you converse with other people when you were
a baby or a young tyke?  It took practice and more practice!)

Hopefully, the present people running the ITU, ARRL, FCC and other
entities, will preserve this VERY unique method of communication.
It's slow...yes,  it's "old"...yes, but it ain't obsolete!

My 2 penny's worth!

73,

Sandy W5TVW

(Yeah, I had a helluva time learning it and hated it at first!  But it's
just about
all I use to QSO on the "wireless" today!)

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[N2EY]

I say Morse Code is a "language form" or "type of language", rather than an
"encoding method" or "transcribing scheme". Here's why:

Consider written English vs. spoken English vs. "sung" English (songs and
such, with English words. They're all forms of English, but they're not exactly
equivalent. They're different forms of the same language, and the communication
experience for all of them is different and unique. A change of emphasis in
spoken English, or a change in punctuation, capitalization, or even font in
written English can make a big difference.

"Morse English" is yet another form, that's all. It's unique because it's
aural, like spoken or sung English, but is text-based and does not usually use a
human voice.

And the communication experience for Morse is unique and different from the
others.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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