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Is it just me?

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Jim Rhodes-2

Is it just me?

When I get an email like this when I reply to a message on a forum like
this I get the impression that someone just wants to be heard but doesn't
want to hear. Also when I tried the link it said my message had already
been deleted, in 12 hours, not 3 weeks? Guess who goes in my spam folder
from now on.

"Hello [hidden email],

** IMPORTANT! Please Read! **
In an effort to reduce spam, a message filtering service called TMDA has
been implemented on this mailbox.

The purpose of this message is to verify that you, a live human, did indeed
sent a message (shown below) to this mailbox.

It is IMPORTANT that you do one of the following two things:

1. Simply reply to THIS message (you don't need to type anything, just send
a blank message), or

2. Click on this link: http://mail.XXXXXXXXXXXXX.com/cgi-bin/tmda.cgi?516.
1485328250.19060.e143c1
<http://mail.audiosystemsgroup.com/cgi-bin/tmda.cgi?516.1485328250.19060.e143c1>

After doing so, your messages will go through automatically, and you will
not see this message again. If you do not reply to this email within three
weeks, your original message may be lost.

Thank you for your patience. This one small step saves this user from a ton
of spam."

--
Jim K0XU
[hidden email]
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Nate Bargmann

Re: Is it just me?

Looks like something that can be safely ignored since you're posting to
the mailing list.

73, Nate, N0NB

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: Is it just me?

In reply to this post by Jim Rhodes-2

It's not just you. I never bother to click on the link. The filter is
too intrusive.

At the same time, I'm a strong advocate of replying to list messages
through the list -- off-list answers never show in the archives and are
never available to the list in general.

73 -- Lynn

On 1/25/2017 11:38 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:

> When I get an email like this when I reply to a message on a forum like
> this I get the impression that someone just wants to be heard but doesn't
> want to hear. Also when I tried the link it said my message had already
> been deleted, in 12 hours, not 3 weeks? Guess who goes in my spam folder
> from now on.
>
>
> "Hello [hidden email],
>
> ** IMPORTANT! Please Read! **
> In an effort to reduce spam, a message filtering service called TMDA has
> been implemented on this mailbox.
>
> The purpose of this message is to verify that you, a live human, did indeed
> sent a message (shown below) to this mailbox.
>
> It is IMPORTANT that you do one of the following two things:
>
>
> 1. Simply reply to THIS message (you don't need to type anything, just send
> a blank message), or
>
> 2. Click on this link: http://mail.XXXXXXXXXXXXX.com/cgi-bin/tmda.cgi?516.
> 1485328250.19060.e143c1
> <http://mail.audiosystemsgroup.com/cgi-bin/tmda.cgi?516.1485328250.19060.e143c1>
>
>
> After doing so, your messages will go through automatically, and you will
> not see this message again. If you do not reply to this email within three
> weeks, your original message may be lost.
>
> Thank you for your patience. This one small step saves this user from a ton
> of spam."
>

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Roger D Johnson

Re: Is it just me?

In reply to this post by Jim Rhodes-2

I immediately delete such messages! It may be genuine but it sure looks like a
troll looking to see if it's a "live" email address.

73, Roger

On 1/25/2017 2:38 PM, Jim Rhodes wrote:

Nate Bargmann

Re: Is it just me?

In reply to this post by Jim Rhodes-2

I thought of something later. When you reply to the list does your
email client also send a private message to the person you're replying
to? If so, that would explain why you're getting the message as your
client is sending two messages. I presume the response message is to
enable a white list from real people to the recipient.

73, Nate, N0NB

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Is it just me?

That depends on settings within the email reflector and also on settings
within your email program. And it also depends on whether you are paying
attention when you compose your email. When an email reflector defaults
to "reply to both," I try to remember to delete the email to the sender
and respond only to the reflector. In my email program (Thunderbird)
it's easy to see what's going on in the address section of the email.

73, Jim K9YC

On Wed,1/25/2017 4:21 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> I thought of something later. When you reply to the list does your
> email client also send a private message to the person you're replying
> to? If so, that would explain why you're getting the message as your
> client is sending two messages. I presume the response message is to
> enable a white list from real people to the recipient.

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Ken Arck

Re: Is it just me?

Well, I don't want this to devolve into an OT issue but it is well
established that any feedline loss ahead of the receiver adds to the
total noise figure of the system. (outside influences such as sky
temperature, local noise sources, etc notwithstanding)

So if you place a preamp with a NF of .5 dB at the "rig end" of a
feedline run that exhibits 3 dB of loss at the frequency involved,
you now have an effective noise figure of 3.5 dB ahead of your
receiver. Placing the preamp at the antenna has an obvious advantage
of reducing that NF by 3 dB.

Period

Ken

At 04:45 PM 1/25/2017, Jim Brown wrote:

>That depends on settings within the email reflector and also on
>settings within your email program. And it also depends on whether
>you are paying attention when you compose your email. When an email
>reflector defaults to "reply to both," I try to remember to delete
>the email to the sender and respond only to the reflector. In my
>email program (Thunderbird) it's easy to see what's going on in the
>address section of the email.
>
>73, Jim K9YC
>
>On Wed,1/25/2017 4:21 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:
>>I thought of something later. When you reply to the list does your
>>email client also send a private message to the person you're replying
>>to? If so, that would explain why you're getting the message as your
>>client is sending two messages. I presume the response message is to
>>enable a white list from real people to the recipient.
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>Message delivered to [hidden email]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
we offer complete repeater packages!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net
"We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"

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KQ5S

Re: Is it just me?

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

I just made this mistake in replying to a post by Jim. I was not paying
attention and sent the reply direct to him :-)

73,
Tom - KQ5S

On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> That depends on settings within the email reflector and also on settings
> within your email program. And it also depends on whether you are paying
> attention when you compose your email. When an email reflector defaults to
> "reply to both," I try to remember to delete the email to the sender and
> respond only to the reflector. In my email program (Thunderbird) it's easy
> to see what's going on in the address section of the email.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On Wed,1/25/2017 4:21 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:
>
>> I thought of something later. When you reply to the list does your
>> email client also send a private message to the person you're replying
>> to? If so, that would explain why you're getting the message as your
>> client is sending two messages. I presume the response message is to
>> enable a white list from real people to the recipient.
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Wes Stewart-2

Re: Is it just me?

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

True... that applies to the K3 preamp as well so it can still be a net gain.

And if the feed line is 50' of 1 5/8 Heliax then it hardly matters.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 25, 2017, at 5:54 PM, Ken Arck <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Well, I don't want this to devolve into an OT issue but it is well established that any feedline loss ahead of the receiver adds to the total noise figure of the system. (outside influences such as sky temperature, local noise sources, etc notwithstanding)
>
> So if you place a preamp with a NF of .5 dB at the "rig end" of a feedline run that exhibits 3 dB of loss at the frequency involved, you now have an effective noise figure of 3.5 dB ahead of your receiver. Placing the preamp at the antenna has an obvious advantage of reducing that NF by 3 dB.
>
> Period
>
> Ken
>
>
> At 04:45 PM 1/25/2017, Jim Brown wrote:
>> That depends on settings within the email reflector and also on settings within your email program. And it also depends on whether you are paying attention when you compose your email. When an email reflector defaults to "reply to both," I try to remember to delete the email to the sender and respond only to the reflector. In my email program (Thunderbird) it's easy to see what's going on in the address section of the email.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>>> On Wed,1/25/2017 4:21 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:
>>> I thought of something later. When you reply to the list does your
>>> email client also send a private message to the person you're replying
>>> to? If so, that would explain why you're getting the message as your
>>> client is sending two messages. I presume the response message is to
>>> enable a white list from real people to the recipient.
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> President and CTO - Arcom Communications
> Makers of repeater controllers and accessories.
> http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/
> Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
> we offer complete repeater packages!
> AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
> http://www.irlp.net
> "We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Brown-10

Re: Is it just me?

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

No question about that. My 6M antenna is at the other end of 350 ft of
LDF5-50, 0.9 dB loss. It's a SteppIR, so I also use it for legal limit
on the HF bands. So my preamp is in the shack. If it was practical for
me to install a dedicated 6M antenna at 120 ft (which is where the
SteppIR is), I would. But it isn't practical.

It's important to realize that every engineering problem is different,
most solutions are compromises, and which set of compromises are best
for any given situation depend on many factors. In this case, real
estate, the cost of another tower, somewhere to put another tower, the
hard line that I can scrounge used at a good price, etc. And yes, I'd
love the extra 2-3 dB that a better 6M antenna would provide.

73, Jim K9YC

On Wed,1/25/2017 4:54 PM, Ken Arck wrote:
> So if you place a preamp with a NF of .5 dB at the "rig end" of a
> feedline run that exhibits 3 dB of loss at the frequency involved, you
> now have an effective noise figure of 3.5 dB ahead of your receiver.
> Placing the preamp at the antenna has an obvious advantage of reducing
> that NF by 3 dB.

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w7aqk

Re: Is it just me?

In reply to this post by Jim Rhodes-2

I think on most email programs there is a "reply" and a "reply all" option.
On mine, at least, if I hit "reply all" it will go to the sender and to the
reflector. So, if you want to avoid that kind of duplication, one must
remove the excess addressee, which is fairly simple.

There is benefit to sending it to both! If the recipient is a digest
subscriber, He will get his response forthwith, which may well be
preferable. That way he won't have to wait until the next digest is
distributed to see the response. If the recipient gets all messages as they
are sent, then it can be duplicative. However, you don't know which is the
case. Since I subscribe to digest mode on some reflectors, sending to both
can be helpful to me, if I am the intended beneficiary, but that won't be
the case for everyone.

I also think having a choice between "reply" and "reply all" is very
beneficial. Sometimes you really only want to reply to the sender, and it
should be your choice to do so easily. At least one reflector made an issue
of this, and removed the "reply" option, forcing replies to go to the
reflector--unless you go to great lengths to alter that. I strongly oppose
this attempt to "control" how and to whom a response is set.

Another problem, primarily involving digest subscribers, is how to properly
respond. Too many just hit the "reply" button and end up copying the entire
digest, rather than just copying over the pertinent parts of the single
post. This is most annoying. If the digest mode is better for you, part of
the "price" you pay for that convenience is to have to do a little cut and
pasting on any reply you might make. Yes, it takes a little extra work, but
how often do you have to do it? Copying over part of a post may be very
helpful for continuity, but not the whole darned digest!!! Also, if you
receive in digest mode, and someone replies by copying over the entire
digest, then you have to scroll endlessly to get past that post! It is just
plain inconsiderate! Digest subscribers need to be very careful about how
they formulate their responses.

Hopefully I practice what I preach! In this case I didn't copy over
anything, since I think my comments are self explanatory. If I had needed
additional context, I would have cut and pasted from the digest. It really
only takes a few extra key strokes.

Dave W7AQK

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Josh Fiden

Re: Is it just me?

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

3 dB feedline loss is not a practical number. At 6m I run only hardline,
90' of 1/2" for terrestrial and about 75' of 1-1/4" for EME. Loss is
<<1dB. If you keep your eyes open, surplus low loss feedline is not
expensive. Putting a preamp on the tower with appropriate sequencing &
isolation, especially if you run QRO, is more effort/cost/maintenance.
Hard to justify at 6m.

73,
Josh W6XU

On 1/25/2017 4:54 PM, Ken Arck wrote:
> if you place a preamp with a NF of .5 dB at the "rig end" of a
> feedline run that exhibits 3 dB of loss

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Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: Is it just me?

I tend to agree on not needing an antenna mounted pre-amp for 50MHz unless
you have exceedingly long feed-lines, or, very serious about EME.

I have about 85 feet of regular old RG-213 to the beam and so far, 153
countries confirmed on six along with WAS & WAC.

Conversely, I have Landwehr pre-amps at the antennas for 144/222/432.
Even though the feed-line on 432 is 7/8" Heliax, switching on the pre-amp
makes a noticeable difference.

When I had a regular K3, I didn't see a lot of difference between the
Elecraft outboard pre-amp and the ARR unit.

That said, my new K3S does not need the external pre-amp since it basically
has the equivalent built-in, which is another BIG plus for going with the
later version K3S.

73, Charlie k3ICH

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Josh
Fiden
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 12:46 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is it just me?

3 dB feedline loss is not a practical number. At 6m I run only hardline, 90'
of 1/2" for terrestrial and about 75' of 1-1/4" for EME. Loss is <<1dB. If
you keep your eyes open, surplus low loss feedline is not expensive. Putting
a preamp on the tower with appropriate sequencing & isolation, especially if
you run QRO, is more effort/cost/maintenance.
Hard to justify at 6m.

73,
Josh W6XU

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Bill K9YEQ

Re: Is it just me?

In reply to this post by Josh Fiden

I have 90' of Andrew Heliax with connectors, never mounted, brand new in
boxes. I am selling as I do not plan on using. These connectors are N type.
They run ~$27 apiece. They are the complete installation kits that include
the installation instructions and parts. This stuff runs $3.18 a foot.
Total is value from manufacturer is ~$350 not including boxing and shipping.
I will sell CONUS for $270 boxed and shipped.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

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