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Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

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Mike Parkes

Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some feedback
if anyone cares to chime in.
I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I am
not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).

Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago). Love
the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear much of
anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating to
say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines for
one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but is
s7-9 mostly. I took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and one
reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could help
with that.)

Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or is
the base loaded vertical a joke?

I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try and
get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some local
AM stations. :)

Mike AB7RU

(On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to get
a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something like
25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a match
to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not much... but
I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
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Tommy

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

The band has been really crappy lately. Keep tuning around and listening.

73!

Tom - KB2SMS

On 08/11/2017 12:33 PM, Mike Parkes wrote:

> Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some feedback
> if anyone cares to chime in.
> I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I am
> not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
> sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).
>
> Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago). Love
> the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear much of
> anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating to
> say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines for
> one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but is
> s7-9 mostly. I took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
> definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and one
> reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could help
> with that.)
>
> Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
> happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or is
> the base loaded vertical a joke?
>
> I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try and
> get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
> ...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some local
> AM stations. :)
>
> Mike AB7RU
>
> (On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to get
> a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something like
> 25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a match
> to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not much... but
> I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Philip Anderson

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

In reply to this post by Mike Parkes

Mike,

The poor sunspot levels mostly affect the higher bands, so 40m (and 20m)
should be OK (and have been for me).

It might be that the noise levels in your apartment are just too high to
operate successfully from there - when I'm in London I only operate
portable for that reason.

If your park operations are in a town/city park, a vertical antenna
isn't the best choice, you'll pick up *far* less noise if you use a low
height (e.g. 3 or 5metres high) horizontal dipole suspended from the trees.

It'll have a high angle of radiation and so be useless for DX, but great
for 40m NVIS rag chewing and (because of it's high angle of radiation)
will give a huge noise improvement on the vertical.

At least, that's what I have found operating in central London! I almost
gave up trying, but with my current portable set-up, HF operations in
central London are actually quite workable. More info on the antenna I
use in London on my qrz.com page: https://www.qrz.com/db/G4PWO

(The horizontal dipole might even be worth trying in your apartment, if
you can fit it in!)

Phil G4PWO

On 11/08/2017 17:33, Mike Parkes wrote:

rich hurd WC3T

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

In reply to this post by Tommy

I have S6 or so noise at home, and am sort of resigned to it; This weekend
I'm at my brother in law's house in Western MA with S1 noise. I was
astonished. Put my KX3 up and a Superantenna and was able to check into a
net where the net control was in MD on 40 meters, using 9 watts.

Keep on dialing around. The contacts are there but you need to be a bit
artful getting them.

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 1:19 PM, Walter Underwood <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> You can get a quick look at band conditions at http://bandconditions.com <
> http://bandconditions.com/>
>
> Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be surprised if
> that was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.
>
> Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly
> to the rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 to 29
> feet long, throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get a 16
> foot wire, lay it on the ground and connect it to the black post. Let the
> ATU tune it and see you can hear.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
> > On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:54 AM, Tommy <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > The band has been really crappy lately. Keep tuning around and listening.
> >
> > 73!
> >
> > Tom - KB2SMS
> >
> >
> >
> > On 08/11/2017 12:33 PM, Mike Parkes wrote:
> >> Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some
> feedback
> >> if anyone cares to chime in.
> >> I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I
> am
> >> not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
> >> sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).
> >>
> >> Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago).
> Love
> >> the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear
> much of
> >> anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating to
> >> say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines
> for
> >> one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but is
> >> s7-9 mostly. I took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
> >> definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and
> one
> >> reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could
> help
> >> with that.)
> >>
> >> Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
> >> happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or
> is
> >> the base loaded vertical a joke?
> >>
> >> I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try
> and
> >> get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
> >> ...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some
> local
> >> AM stations. :)
> >>
> >> Mike AB7RU
> >>
> >> (On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to
> get
> >> a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something like
> >> 25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a
> match
> >> to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not much...
> but
> >> I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >>
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

--
73 (or 72 for the QRP folks),
Rich Hurd / WC3T
DMR ID: 3142737
Northampton County RACES
EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988 (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
*FN20is*
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

In reply to this post by Mike Parkes

On 8/11/2017 9:33 AM, Mike Parkes wrote:
> I took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
> definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and one
> reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could help
> with that.)
>
> Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
> happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or is
> the base loaded vertical a joke?

Band conditions ARE lousy, virtually all residential and industrial
areas are full of noise from electronics of all sorts, especially
switch-mode power supplies, the antenna you've chosen requires radials
or a counterpoise, and short base-loaded verticals are seriously
compromised antennas.

A wire thrown into a tree with another wire a few feet off the ground
connected to the rig chassis is a far better antenna. I use #22 for the
kind of operation you do in the park.The same wire can also be taped to
a telescoping fiberglass pole if there are no trees. The closer the
length is to a quarter-wave the better. :) If there are hills or
mountains around you, head for the top of one of them. The ground slope
will help your transmitted signal, and if there are no buildings or
radio towers around, it will probably be a lot quieter.

Another problem is that, except for contesting and DXing, CW band
activity has fallen over the years. 30M is a very good band for QRP, and
sometimes has more daytime activity than 40 CW; 20M daytime activity
tends to be greater, but the higher you go in frequency, conditions get
worse. :)

As to noise -- you're probably going to have to give up on operating
from your apartment. The likelihood is that every apartment has at least
a dozen nasty noise sources, and many have a lot more.

73, Jim K9YC

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Tommy

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

In reply to this post by Tommy

I use a similar set up on my KX2 (per the manual) and it works very
well. Simple and effective. When the band cooperates.

73!

Tom - KB2SMS

On 08/11/2017 01:19 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
>
> Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly to the rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 to 29 feet long, throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get a 16 foot wire, lay it on the ground and connect it to the black post. Let the ATU tune it and see you can hear.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
>

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donovanf

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

In reply to this post by Mike Parkes

Hi Mike,

You're in a perfect storm of
- high urban noise,
- QRP power,
- inefficient modulation if you're using only SSB voice
- low sunspot activity,
- a very inefficient antenna, and
- an urban environment that makes any antenna much less efficient

Spokane is surrounded by beautiful rural parks and public lands
w here you can easily escape your high urban noise environment.

You didn't mention what modulation you're using. If you're using
only SSB voice, you've chosen the least efficient modulation method.
CW or the highly efficient digital modes such as FT8 or JT65 are
far better choices for QRP power.

You'll enjoy much better success if you focus on the 40, 30 and 20
meter bands which are much less affected by the current low sunspot
conditions. 17 meters can also be a good choice for QRP power and
simple antennas on days when when propagation is favorable.

While y our vertical with a minimal ground system could be an adequate
antenna on the ocean front hundreds of miles from your QTH, its a
terribly inefficient antenna in your urban environment

Any horizontally polarized antenna would be a much better choice.
A half wave horizontally polarized dipole or a properly engineered
half wave end fed antenna are much better choices. Horizontally
polarized antennas at least 15 feet high are fairly efficient for
domestic contacts. They perform much better for DX contacts if they're
on a hilltop, mountaintop or steeply sloping terrain.

If you're a member of a local radio club they can help you quickly
gain some success.

73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "Mike Parkes" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 4:33:41 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some feedback
if anyone cares to chime in.
I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I am
not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).

Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago). Love
the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear much of
anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating to
say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines for
one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but is
s7-9 mostly. I took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and one
reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could help
with that.)

Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or is
the base loaded vertical a joke?

I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try and
get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some local
AM stations. :)

Mike AB7RU

(On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to get
a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something like
25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a match
to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not much... but
I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
______________________________________________________________
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briancom

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

In other words, don't stack the deck against yourself so heavily.

Reminds me of CQ article. The author took a 1 w rig, buddipole and a
beach chair to the shore. After two days he made no contacts. He said
he had fun. So maybe fun isn't all about making a ton of contacts--
perhaps the scenery at the beach was enough.

If contacts are what your after, Frank's points are all well taken. In
these days of low sunspots bring the highest power/power source you can
lug to the game. It's the opposite of the usual expression. They have
to hear you to work them.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 8/11/2017 18:47 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
>
> You're in a perfect storm of
> - high urban noise,
> - QRP power,
> - inefficient modulation if you're using only SSB voice
> - low sunspot activity,
> - a very inefficient antenna, and
> - an urban environment that makes any antenna much less efficient
>
>
> Spokane is surrounded by beautiful rural parks and public lands
> w here you can easily escape your high urban noise environment.
>
>
> You didn't mention what modulation you're using. If you're using
> only SSB voice, you've chosen the least efficient modulation method.
> CW or the highly efficient digital modes such as FT8 or JT65 are
> far better choices for QRP power.
>
>
>
> You'll enjoy much better success if you focus on the 40, 30 and 20
> meter bands which are much less affected by the current low sunspot
> conditions. 17 meters can also be a good choice for QRP power and
> simple antennas on days when when propagation is favorable.
>
>
> While y our vertical with a minimal ground system could be an adequate
> antenna on the ocean front hundreds of miles from your QTH, its a
> terribly inefficient antenna in your urban environment
>
>
> Any horizontally polarized antenna would be a much better choice.
> A half wave horizontally polarized dipole or a properly engineered
> half wave end fed antenna are much better choices. Horizontally
> polarized antennas at least 15 feet high are fairly efficient for
> domestic contacts. They perform much better for DX contacts if they're
> on a hilltop, mountaintop or steeply sloping terrain.
>
>
> If you're a member of a local radio club they can help you quickly
> gain some success.
>
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Mike Parkes" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 4:33:41 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?
>
> Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some feedback
> if anyone cares to chime in.
> I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I am
> not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
> sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).
>
> Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago). Love
> the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear much of
> anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating to
> say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines for
> one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but is
> s7-9 mostly. I took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
> definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and one
> reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could help
> with that.)
>
> Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
> happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or is
> the base loaded vertical a joke?
>
> I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try and
> get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
> ...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some local
> AM stations. :)
>
> Mike AB7RU
>
> (On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to get
> a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something like
> 25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a match
> to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not much... but
> I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

In reply to this post by Mike Parkes

Mike,
I had to smile when I read your message. Our situations are so similar.
About a month ago, I came back to radio after a 15 year break. As then, I live in an apartment in downtown Manhattan, four blocks north of the World Trade Center. (The antenna from 1 World Trade looms clearly above.) For about 20 years I operated with an end-fed random wire - cut to no electrical length - that ran up seven stories to the roof of the building. (Gotta' love antenna tuners!) EVERY apartment antenna is a compromise, but it worked. Made my fair share of contacts, with the obvious limitations.
Then a month ago I dragged the trusty TS-830 out of the basement locker, set up a new antenna - now an open loop going around the outside of four windows. I was stunned at the noise level and dearth of signals. At first I thought the 830 had gone from years of lack of use. Several tests indicated it was working OK. Since I operated out of this apartment for two decades, I knew it could be done. I'd been pining over the KX3 for several months and, undaunted by the conditions, bought the kit and got it together with few hiccups. (Thanks Craig for getting back to me in all of 15 minutes with the answer to a question.) Even with the dramatically better receiver, still heavy noise and little activity. As you, I have yet to make a contact on the KX3. With a make-shift wire/counterpoise antenna, I've taken it to one open area; same thing. Oh, and on CW. I'll keep trying other locations.
Deep urban operating requires: realistic expectations, ingenuity, and patience. I think the next few years are going to test those qualities big time. But I have faith!
Bob, KA2TQVKX3 #9842

Original message:
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 09:33:41 -07009842
From: Mike Parkes <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?
Message-ID:
<[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some feedback
if anyone cares to chime in.
I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I am
not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).

Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago). Love
the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear much of
anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating to
say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines for
one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but is
s7-9 mostly. I took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and one
reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could help
with that.)

Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or is
the base loaded vertical a joke?

I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try and
get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some local
AM stations. :)

Mike AB7RU

(On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to get
a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something like
25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a match
to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not much... but
I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)

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Jim Brown-10

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

On 8/12/2017 7:31 PM, krug261--- via Elecraft wrote:
> I came back to radio after a 15 year break.

The thing that's changed is the proliferation of noise generators. The
RF environment has become so bad that broadcasters have raised the issue
with the FCC, and the FCC is studying it in a serious way.

In a tutorial/applications note about finding and killing it, I made an
educated guess that the average residence has at least two dozen, and
probably three dozen, HF noise sources.

http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf

73, Jim K9YC

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Clay Autery-2

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

Yup! And tech geeks like me can have 75 switch mode power supplies in a
1000 ft sq house....

SMPS are the devil's work and must be destroyed! ;)

I've done away with about 1/3 of them so far... Eventually, I hope to
eliminate ALL of them from the entire property.

73,

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 8/12/2017 10:07 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 8/12/2017 7:31 PM, krug261--- via Elecraft wrote:
>> I came back to radio after a 15 year break.
>
> The thing that's changed is the proliferation of noise generators. The
> RF environment has become so bad that broadcasters have raised the
> issue with the FCC, and the FCC is studying it in a serious way.
>
> In a tutorial/applications note about finding and killing it, I made
> an educated guess that the average residence has at least two dozen,
> and probably three dozen, HF noise sources.
>
> http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

Not exactly correct. I have 2 which do not, as I measure and listen,
create any noise. On the other hand, I purchased a "deal" for a 13V /
30 amp supply. It measures.......well it will never be in or around my
house as it generated lots of noise from 1 MHz to over 100 MHz. I was
suspicious when I couldn't find a Part 15 label on the box. But after
all, new shipped to me was less than $20. Guess one gets what they pay
for in terms of quality.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 8/12/2017 10:13 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

> Yup! And tech geeks like me can have 75 switch mode power supplies in a
> 1000 ft sq house....
>
> SMPS are the devil's work and must be destroyed! ;)
>
> I've done away with about 1/3 of them so far... Eventually, I hope to
> eliminate ALL of them from the entire property.
>
> 73,
>
> ______________________
> Clay Autery, KY5G
>
> On 8/12/2017 10:07 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> On 8/12/2017 7:31 PM, krug261--- via Elecraft wrote:
>>> I came back to radio after a 15 year break.
>> The thing that's changed is the proliferation of noise generators. The
>> RF environment has become so bad that broadcasters have raised the
>> issue with the FCC, and the FCC is studying it in a serious way.
>>
>> In a tutorial/applications note about finding and killing it, I made
>> an educated guess that the average residence has at least two dozen,
>> and probably three dozen, HF noise sources.
>>
>> http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Bob-2

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

"Guess one gets what they pay for in terms of quality."

I'd say "not always". There are some major manufacturers that sell into the Ham
market that are pretty poor.

The P3 was a real eyeopener watching the low level spikes and mounds of wideband
noise drifting across the screen. I made some improvements but as far as I was
concerned not worth the effort. Ultimate solution is to invest in more iron and
take the weight and space penalties.

73,
Bob
K2TK ex KN2TKR (1956) & K2TKR

On 8/12/2017 11:25 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> Not exactly correct. I have 2 which do not, as I measure and listen, create
> any noise. On the other hand, I purchased a "deal" for a 13V / 30 amp
> supply. It measures.......well it will never be in or around my house as it
> generated lots of noise from 1 MHz to over 100 MHz. I was suspicious when I
> couldn't find a Part 15 label on the box. But after all, new shipped to me was
> less than $20.
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 8/12/2017 10:13 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>> Yup! And tech geeks like me can have 75 switch mode power supplies in a
>> 1000 ft sq house....
>>
>> SMPS are the devil's work and must be destroyed! ;)
>>
>> I've done away with about 1/3 of them so far... Eventually, I hope to
>> eliminate ALL of them from the entire property.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ______________________
>> Clay Autery, KY5G
>>
>> On 8/12/2017 10:07 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>> On 8/12/2017 7:31 PM, krug261--- via Elecraft wrote:
>>>> I came back to radio after a 15 year break.
>>> The thing that's changed is the proliferation of noise generators. The
>>> RF environment has become so bad that broadcasters have raised the
>>> issue with the FCC, and the FCC is studying it in a serious way.
>>>
>>> In a tutorial/applications note about finding and killing it, I made
>>> an educated guess that the average residence has at least two dozen,
>>> and probably three dozen, HF noise sources.
>>>
>>> http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC

rich hurd WC3T

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

In reply to this post by Tommy

Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):

I've been bedeviled by a question with multiple possible answers.

I'm a fan of the idea of using a field antenna as Walter describes by using
a BNC - to binding post connector directly to the radio.

I'm leery of that because it flies in the face of what I've been told about
these antennas: I'm assuming the radio BNC connection is unbalanced and
the wires form a balanced antenna, more or less. I've seen deployments
with end-fed 9:1 baluns and without, even documented on YouTube with great
successes.

I can tell you that the 9:1 balun setup doesn't seem to be working for my
current field deployment but I'd sure like to understand why a balun isn't
recommended in this setup. I'd love to just take the wire and put it on my
WonderPole and go for it, but I'd like the understanding first. Why does
this work? :)

Thanks.

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 13:19 Walter Underwood <[hidden email]>
wrote:

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

Forget about "what you've been told". Do your own research using various publications such as ARRL Antenna Book or other like publications. Personally in the "I've been told" area, it seems hams have more incomplete and inaccurate information than correct and complete information.

Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 13, 2017, at 7:31 AM, rich hurd WC3T <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):
>
> I've been bedeviled by a question with multiple possible answers.
>
> I'm a fan of the idea of using a field antenna as Walter describes by using
> a BNC - to binding post connector directly to the radio.
>
> I'm leery of that because it flies in the face of what I've been told about
> these antennas: I'm assuming the radio BNC connection is unbalanced and
> the wires form a balanced antenna, more or less. I've seen deployments
> with end-fed 9:1 baluns and without, even documented on YouTube with great
> successes.
>
> I can tell you that the 9:1 balun setup doesn't seem to be working for my
> current field deployment but I'd sure like to understand why a balun isn't
> recommended in this setup. I'd love to just take the wire and put it on my
> WonderPole and go for it, but I'd like the understanding first. Why does
> this work? :)
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 13:19 Walter Underwood <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> You can get a quick look at band conditions at http://bandconditions.com <
>> http://bandconditions.com/>
>>
>> Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be surprised if
>> that was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.
>>
>> Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly
>> to the rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 to 29
>> feet long, throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get a 16
>> foot wire, lay it on the ground and connect it to the black post. Let the
>> ATU tune it and see you can hear.
>>
>> wunder
>> K6WRU
>> Walter Underwood
>> CM87wj
>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>>
>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:54 AM, Tommy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> The band has been really crappy lately. Keep tuning around and listening.
>>>
>>> 73!
>>>
>>> Tom - KB2SMS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 08/11/2017 12:33 PM, Mike Parkes wrote:
>>>> Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some
>> feedback
>>>> if anyone cares to chime in.
>>>> I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I
>> am
>>>> not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
>>>> sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).
>>>>
>>>> Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago).
>> Love
>>>> the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear
>> much of
>>>> anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating to
>>>> say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines
>> for
>>>> one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but is
>>>> s7-9 mostly. I took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
>>>> definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and
>> one
>>>> reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could
>> help
>>>> with that.)
>>>>
>>>> Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
>>>> happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or
>> is
>>>> the base loaded vertical a joke?
>>>>
>>>> I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try
>> and
>>>> get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
>>>> ...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some
>> local
>>>> AM stations. :)
>>>>
>>>> Mike AB7RU
>>>>
>>>> (On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to
>> get
>>>> a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something like
>>>> 25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a
>> match
>>>> to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not much...
>> but
>>>> I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> --
> 73 (or 72 for the QRP folks),
> Rich Hurd / WC3T
> DMR ID: 3142737
> Northampton County RACES
> EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
> Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988 (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
> *FN20is*
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

rich hurd WC3T

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

Good point; thanks.

On Sun, Aug 13, 2017 at 08:43 Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Forget about "what you've been told". Do your own research using various
> publications such as ARRL Antenna Book or other like publications.
> Personally in the "I've been told" area, it seems hams have more
> incomplete and inaccurate information than correct and complete information.
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 13, 2017, at 7:31 AM, rich hurd WC3T <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):
> >
> > I've been bedeviled by a question with multiple possible answers.
> >
> > I'm a fan of the idea of using a field antenna as Walter describes by
> using
> > a BNC - to binding post connector directly to the radio.
> >
> > I'm leery of that because it flies in the face of what I've been told
> about
> > these antennas: I'm assuming the radio BNC connection is unbalanced and
> > the wires form a balanced antenna, more or less. I've seen deployments
> > with end-fed 9:1 baluns and without, even documented on YouTube with
> great
> > successes.
> >
> > I can tell you that the 9:1 balun setup doesn't seem to be working for my
> > current field deployment but I'd sure like to understand why a balun
> isn't
> > recommended in this setup. I'd love to just take the wire and put it on
> my
> > WonderPole and go for it, but I'd like the understanding first. Why
> does
> > this work? :)
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 13:19 Walter Underwood <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> You can get a quick look at band conditions at
> http://bandconditions.com <
> >> http://bandconditions.com/>
> >>
> >> Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be surprised
> if
> >> that was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.
> >>
> >> Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly
> >> to the rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 to
> 29
> >> feet long, throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get a 16
> >> foot wire, lay it on the ground and connect it to the black post. Let
> the
> >> ATU tune it and see you can hear.
> >>
> >> wunder
> >> K6WRU
> >> Walter Underwood
> >> CM87wj
> >> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> >>
> >>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:54 AM, Tommy <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The band has been really crappy lately. Keep tuning around and
> listening.
> >>>
> >>> 73!
> >>>
> >>> Tom - KB2SMS
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 08/11/2017 12:33 PM, Mike Parkes wrote:
> >>>> Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some
> >> feedback
> >>>> if anyone cares to chime in.
> >>>> I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so
> I
> >> am
> >>>> not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
> >>>> sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).
> >>>>
> >>>> Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago).
> >> Love
> >>>> the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear
> >> much of
> >>>> anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating
> to
> >>>> say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines
> >> for
> >>>> one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but
> is
> >>>> s7-9 mostly. I took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
> >>>> definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and
> >> one
> >>>> reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could
> >> help
> >>>> with that.)
> >>>>
> >>>> Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
> >>>> happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF?
> Or
> >> is
> >>>> the base loaded vertical a joke?
> >>>>
> >>>> I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try
> >> and
> >>>> get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
> >>>> ...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some
> >> local
> >>>> AM stations. :)
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike AB7RU
> >>>>
> >>>> (On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to
> >> get
> >>>> a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something
> like
> >>>> 25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a
> >> match
> >>>> to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not
> much...
> >> but
> >>>> I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
> >>>> ______________________________________________________________
> >>>> Elecraft mailing list
> >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>>>
> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> ______________________________________________________________
> >>> Elecraft mailing list
> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>>
> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >>
> > --
> > 73 (or 72 for the QRP folks),
> > Rich Hurd / WC3T
> > DMR ID: 3142737
> > Northampton County RACES
> > EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
> > Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988 (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W)
> Grid:
> > *FN20is*
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
> --

73 (or 72 for the QRP folks),
Rich Hurd / WC3T
DMR ID: 3142737
Northampton County RACES
EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988 (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
*FN20is*
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Fred Moore-2

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

There has been a happening in the last 15 or so years. It seems that
every antenna is "the best we have ever had" this statement is directly
proportional to the number of people who study theory to those who just
read others comments on the internet. Or as some say, the SWR is 1:1 so
its a great antenna. BTW I love my dummy load for EXACTLY that reason.

I can clearly say that I have had enough different antenna's over the
last 35 years that I know what is a good antenna and one that is not..
plus I even understand most of the theory. Today a new ham dumps
125-150 bucks in to a 5 dollar pre-manufactured wire antenna, and says,
this is the best antenna around even if he has never used any other
antenna. See how good it works I even have an S9 noise floor, no other
antenna is this sensitive, when all the wile he is running 30db of
preamp he does not need.

Simply amazes me.. that some think they even have enough education or
experience to even have a meaning full opinion.. but away they go on
eham or qrz about how good something is. Lucky most on Elecraft don't
all into this category.

We do have many good radio related sites out there, examples are those
who show current band conditions, low power reporting sites to check
your own propagation etc.. those we should learn to use as they are
meaningful but don't assume the to be 100% all of the time,

I remember many years ago when I was elmering a new ham, he built a 15
meter beam, when he decided after one week that the 40/15 dipole I built
for him was just not working, I loaned him a HW16, he complained for
weeks that the something was wrong, I went over one Saturday to see what
actually was wrong, a spin across the band showed no signals, one CQ
with 50 watts and from Ohio I was the pileup of European stations, I
worked about 5 contacts, looked at him, and said, "So what is wrong",
he says.. "what knob did you turn when I wasn't looking" did you ever
call CQ "no says he" "I think you need to actually use the radio before
you decide something is wrong" says I.

If the band propagation sites say the band is dead, and your radio is
not hearing anything, most likely it is not your radio or your antenna.
If you are hearing S9 noise and unhook the antenna and it goes away, I
will make you a bet that your radio is not broken..

And yes all of the switching supplies didn't exist 20 years ago, so we
need to do things we didn't have to do before with toroids and other
things that we didn't do before, there is even some noise sources we
can't fix as others are legally generating it. Me thinks the days of a
usable -127db noise floor are few and far between, thanks mostly to what
our government is allowing to happen...

FWIW/WYP.. regards.. Fred

Fred Moore
email: [hidden email]
[hidden email]
phone: 321-217-8699

On 8/13/17 8:43 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> Forget about "what you've been told". Do your own research using various publications such as ARRL Antenna Book or other like publications. Personally in the "I've been told" area, it seems hams have more incomplete and inaccurate information than correct and complete information.
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 13, 2017, at 7:31 AM, rich hurd WC3T <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):
>>
>> I've been bedeviled by a question with multiple possible answers.
>>
>> I'm a fan of the idea of using a field antenna as Walter describes by using
>> a BNC - to binding post connector directly to the radio.
>>
>> I'm leery of that because it flies in the face of what I've been told about
>> these antennas: I'm assuming the radio BNC connection is unbalanced and
>> the wires form a balanced antenna, more or less. I've seen deployments
>> with end-fed 9:1 baluns and without, even documented on YouTube with great
>> successes.
>>
>> I can tell you that the 9:1 balun setup doesn't seem to be working for my
>> current field deployment but I'd sure like to understand why a balun isn't
>> recommended in this setup. I'd love to just take the wire and put it on my
>> WonderPole and go for it, but I'd like the understanding first. Why does
>> this work? :)
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 13:19 Walter Underwood <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You can get a quick look at band conditions at http://bandconditions.com <
>>> http://bandconditions.com/>
>>>
>>> Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be surprised if
>>> that was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.
>>>
>>> Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly
>>> to the rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 to 29
>>> feet long, throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get a 16
>>> foot wire, lay it on the ground and connect it to the black post. Let the
>>> ATU tune it and see you can hear.
>>>
>>> wunder
>>> K6WRU
>>> Walter Underwood
>>> CM87wj
>>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>>>
>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:54 AM, Tommy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The band has been really crappy lately. Keep tuning around and listening.
>>>>
>>>> 73!
>>>>
>>>> Tom - KB2SMS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 08/11/2017 12:33 PM, Mike Parkes wrote:
>>>>> Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some
>>> feedback
>>>>> if anyone cares to chime in.
>>>>> I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I
>>> am
>>>>> not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
>>>>> sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).
>>>>>
>>>>> Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago).
>>> Love
>>>>> the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear
>>> much of
>>>>> anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating to
>>>>> say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines
>>> for
>>>>> one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but is
>>>>> s7-9 mostly. I took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
>>>>> definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and
>>> one
>>>>> reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could
>>> help
>>>>> with that.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
>>>>> happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or
>>> is
>>>>> the base loaded vertical a joke?
>>>>>
>>>>> I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try
>>> and
>>>>> get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
>>>>> ...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some
>>> local
>>>>> AM stations. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike AB7RU
>>>>>
>>>>> (On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to
>>> get
>>>>> a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something like
>>>>> 25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a
>>> match
>>>>> to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not much...
>>> but
>>>>> I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>> --
>> 73 (or 72 for the QRP folks),
>> Rich Hurd / WC3T
>> DMR ID: 3142737
>> Northampton County RACES
>> EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
>> Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988 (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
>> *FN20is*
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

rich hurd WC3T

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

In reply to this post by rich hurd WC3T

"When the antenna is connected directly to the KX3, there is no
transmission line, so there is no need to match the antenna to the
transmission line. It is putting the ATU at the feed point of the antenna."

Ah. I see now. Light dawns on the Rockies. :)

Thanks for the clarification!

On Sun, Aug 13, 2017 at 12:09 Walter Underwood <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> In July, five SOTA operators put up seven different antennas on a summit
> and compared their performance with WSPR. Six of the antennas were mostly
> within 3 dB of each other. The EARCHI antenna (end-fed with transformer)
> was between 6 and 15 dB worse than the others. So in one experiment, the
> 9:1 transformer did not help.
>
>
> http://reflector.sota.org.uk/t/seven-sota-antennas-compared-using-wspr-on-a-summit/15635
> <
> http://reflector.sota.org.uk/t/seven-sota-antennas-compared-using-wspr-on-a-summit/15635
> >
>
> When the antenna is connected directly to the KX3, there is no
> transmission line, so there is no need to match the antenna to the
> transmission line. It is putting the ATU at the feed point of the antenna.
>
> The 26-29 foot length is chosen to avoid very high or very low impedances
> in the ham bands down to 40 m Especially, it is not a 1/2 wave on any band.
> That makes it easier to match. If you want to work 80 m, use a 53 foot wire.
>
> The 16 foot wire on the ground is a radial “system”. One radial is a lot
> better than none, but you could use more. The length isn’t especially
> important because it is capacitively coupled to the ground. Ground
> resistance swamps any resonance.
>
> I first heard about this antenna on this list. It was recommended by
> Wayne, N6KR. It is documented on page 9 of the instructions for the KXAT1
> antenna tuner, “...for backpacking use on 40/30/20 meters, a wire length of
> 24-28 feet will generally provide good results. […] Ground system: Use a at
> least one ground radial, cut to at least 1/8th wavelength on the lowest
> band used (16' on 40 meters). When possible, use two or more radials, with
> one cut to 1/4 wavelength on each band."
>
> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740054%20KXAT1%20man%20rev%20B.pdf <
> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740054%20KXAT1%20man%20rev%20B.pdf>
>
> There is similar advice on page 10 of the KX2 manual.
>
> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740282%20KX2%20owner%27s%20man.pdf <
> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740282%20KX2%20owner's%20man.pdf>
>
> Finally, stop trying to think about “balanced” and “unbalanced” because
> those words are used in bizarre, inconsistent ways. Voltage, whether DC or
> RF, is always between two terminals. With a center-fed dipole, the two
> terminals are the elements. With this setup, the two terminals are the wire
> in the air and the wire on the ground.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
> > On Aug 13, 2017, at 5:31 AM, rich hurd WC3T <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):
> >
> > I've been bedeviled by a question with multiple possible answers.
> >
> > I'm a fan of the idea of using a field antenna as Walter describes by
> using a BNC - to binding post connector directly to the radio.
> >
> > I'm leery of that because it flies in the face of what I've been told
> about these antennas: I'm assuming the radio BNC connection is unbalanced
> and the wires form a balanced antenna, more or less. I've seen deployments
> with end-fed 9:1 baluns and without, even documented on YouTube with great
> successes.
> >
> > I can tell you that the 9:1 balun setup doesn't seem to be working for
> my current field deployment but I'd sure like to understand why a balun
> isn't recommended in this setup. I'd love to just take the wire and put it
> on my WonderPole and go for it, but I'd like the understanding first.
> Why does this work? :)
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 13:19 Walter Underwood <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> > You can get a quick look at band conditions at http://bandconditions.com
> <http://bandconditions.com/> <http://bandconditions.com/ <
> http://bandconditions.com/>>
> >
> > Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be surprised
> if that was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.
> >
> > Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly
> to the rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 to 29
> feet long, throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get a 16
> foot wire, lay it on the ground and connect it to the black post. Let the
> ATU tune it and see you can hear.
> >
> > wunder
> > K6WRU
> > Walter Underwood
> > CM87wj
> > http://observer.wunderwood.org/ <http://observer.wunderwood.org/> (my
> blog)
> >
> > > On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:54 AM, Tommy <[hidden email] <mailto:
> [hidden email]>> wrote:
> > >
> > > The band has been really crappy lately. Keep tuning around and
> listening.
> > >
> > > 73!
> > >
> > > Tom - KB2SMS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 08/11/2017 12:33 PM, Mike Parkes wrote:
> > >> Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some
> feedback
> > >> if anyone cares to chime in.
> > >> I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so
> I am
> > >> not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
> > >> sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).
> > >>
> > >> Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago).
> Love
> > >> the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear
> much of
> > >> anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating
> to
> > >> say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power
> lines for
> > >> one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but
> is
> > >> s7-9 mostly. I took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
> > >> definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and
> one
> > >> reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could
> help
> > >> with that.)
> > >>
> > >> Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
> > >> happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF?
> Or is
> > >> the base loaded vertical a joke?
> > >>
> > >> I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try
> and
> > >> get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
> > >> ...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some
> local
> > >> AM stations. :)
> > >>
> > >> Mike AB7RU
> > >>
> > >> (On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able
> to get
> > >> a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something
> like
> > >> 25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a
> match
> > >> to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not
> much... but
> > >> I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
> > >> ______________________________________________________________
> > >> Elecraft mailing list
> > >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft <
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
> > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm <
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
> > >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:
> [hidden email]>
> > >>
> > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net/>
> > >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html <
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
> > >> Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> > >>
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > Elecraft mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft <
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm <
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
> > > Post: mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net/>
> > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html <
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
> > > Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:
> [hidden email]>
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft <
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net/>
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html <
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
> > Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> > --
> > 73 (or 72 for the QRP folks),
> > Rich Hurd / WC3T
> > DMR ID: 3142737
> > Northampton County RACES
> > EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
> > Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988 (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W)
> Grid: FN20is
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Barry K3NDM

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

In reply to this post by Fred Moore-2

Fred,
I think you've hit on the real major issues. I always state an
antennas performance can not be measured by SWR alone, and that there is
no one perfect antenna. I suggest that these are just a few areas that a
ham really need to worry/think about; can he make his radio accept the
load, is his line loss at least close to rational, does he want to work
local stations meaning out to a few hundred miles, or does he want to go
for a 5BDXCC. All of the rest of it are just a good discussion topics,
taken one at a time.

For my part, I run two antennas on my urban lot, a center fed 80
meter inverted L and a vertical 20 meter center fed dipole. I use the L
for 80-30 meters and the vertical dipole for all else. I haven't a clue
what the SWR is, but my built in tuner deals with it nicely. All on my
feed line are ladder line connected via a Balun Designs current balun.
I'm serious about finishing my 5BDXCC, and all I need is to finish up on
80. What I'm saying is I have found it does not take an elaborate
antenna farm to really reach out and touch someone.

My recommendations are to use a ground independent antenna if you
can and feed it with the lowest loss line that makes sense for your
situation. All the rest is seat in the chair time and listen or call CQ.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

------ Original Message ------
From: "Fred Moore" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: 8/13/2017 10:37:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

>There has been a happening in the last 15 or so years. It seems that
>every antenna is "the best we have ever had" this statement is
>directly
>proportional to the number of people who study theory to those who just
>read others comments on the internet. Or as some say, the SWR is 1:1 so
>its a great antenna. BTW I love my dummy load for EXACTLY that reason.
>
>I can clearly say that I have had enough different antenna's over the
>last 35 years that I know what is a good antenna and one that is not..
>plus I even understand most of the theory. Today a new ham dumps
>125-150 bucks in to a 5 dollar pre-manufactured wire antenna, and says,
>this is the best antenna around even if he has never used any other
>antenna. See how good it works I even have an S9 noise floor, no other
>antenna is this sensitive, when all the wile he is running 30db of
>preamp he does not need.
>
>Simply amazes me.. that some think they even have enough education or
>experience to even have a meaning full opinion.. but away they go on
>eham or qrz about how good something is. Lucky most on Elecraft don't
>all into this category.
>
>We do have many good radio related sites out there, examples are those
>who show current band conditions, low power reporting sites to check
>your own propagation etc.. those we should learn to use as they are
>meaningful but don't assume the to be 100% all of the time,
>
>I remember many years ago when I was elmering a new ham, he built a 15
>meter beam, when he decided after one week that the 40/15 dipole I
>built
>for him was just not working, I loaned him a HW16, he complained for
>weeks that the something was wrong, I went over one Saturday to see
>what
>actually was wrong, a spin across the band showed no signals, one CQ
>with 50 watts and from Ohio I was the pileup of European stations, I
>worked about 5 contacts, looked at him, and said, "So what is wrong",
>he says.. "what knob did you turn when I wasn't looking" did you ever
>call CQ "no says he" "I think you need to actually use the radio
>before
>you decide something is wrong" says I.
>
>If the band propagation sites say the band is dead, and your radio is
>not hearing anything, most likely it is not your radio or your antenna.
>If you are hearing S9 noise and unhook the antenna and it goes away, I
>will make you a bet that your radio is not broken..
>
>And yes all of the switching supplies didn't exist 20 years ago, so we
>need to do things we didn't have to do before with toroids and other
>things that we didn't do before, there is even some noise sources we
>can't fix as others are legally generating it. Me thinks the days of a
>usable -127db noise floor are few and far between, thanks mostly to
>what
>our government is allowing to happen...
>
>FWIW/WYP.. regards.. Fred
>
>Fred Moore
>email: [hidden email]
>[hidden email]
>phone: 321-217-8699
>
>On 8/13/17 8:43 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>>Forget about "what you've been told". Do your own research using
>>various publications such as ARRL Antenna Book or other like
>>publications. Personally in the "I've been told" area, it seems hams
>>have more incomplete and inaccurate information than correct and
>>complete information.
>>
>>Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>On Aug 13, 2017, at 7:31 AM, rich hurd WC3T <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):
>>>
>>>I've been bedeviled by a question with multiple possible answers.
>>>
>>>I'm a fan of the idea of using a field antenna as Walter describes by
>>>using
>>>a BNC - to binding post connector directly to the radio.
>>>
>>>I'm leery of that because it flies in the face of what I've been told
>>>about
>>>these antennas: I'm assuming the radio BNC connection is unbalanced
>>>and
>>>the wires form a balanced antenna, more or less. I've seen
>>>deployments
>>>with end-fed 9:1 baluns and without, even documented on YouTube with
>>>great
>>>successes.
>>>
>>>I can tell you that the 9:1 balun setup doesn't seem to be working
>>>for my
>>>current field deployment but I'd sure like to understand why a balun
>>>isn't
>>>recommended in this setup. I'd love to just take the wire and put it
>>>on my
>>>WonderPole and go for it, but I'd like the understanding first.
>>>Why does
>>>this work? :)
>>>
>>>Thanks.
>>>
>>>On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 13:19 Walter Underwood
>>><[hidden email]>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>You can get a quick look at band conditions at
>>>>http://bandconditions.com <
>>>>http://bandconditions.com/>
>>>>
>>>>Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be
>>>>surprised if
>>>>that was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.
>>>>
>>>>Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected
>>>>directly
>>>>to the rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26
>>>>to 29
>>>>feet long, throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get
>>>>a 16
>>>>foot wire, lay it on the ground and connect it to the black post.
>>>>Let the
>>>>ATU tune it and see you can hear.
>>>>
>>>>wunder
>>>>K6WRU
>>>>Walter Underwood
>>>>CM87wj
>>>>http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>>>>
>>>>>On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:54 AM, Tommy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>The band has been really crappy lately. Keep tuning around and
>>>>>listening.
>>>>>
>>>>>73!
>>>>>
>>>>>Tom - KB2SMS
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 08/11/2017 12:33 PM, Mike Parkes wrote:
>>>>>>Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some
>>>>feedback
>>>>>>if anyone cares to chime in.
>>>>>>I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby,
>>>>>>so I
>>>>am
>>>>>>not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already
>>>>>>there).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks
>>>>>>ago).
>>>>Love
>>>>>>the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to
>>>>>>hear
>>>>much of
>>>>>>anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been
>>>>>>frustrating to
>>>>>>say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power
>>>>>>lines
>>>>for
>>>>>>one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies
>>>>>>but is
>>>>>>s7-9 mostly. I took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
>>>>>>definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue
>>>>>>(and
>>>>one
>>>>>>reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering
>>>>>>could
>>>>help
>>>>>>with that.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I
>>>>>>just
>>>>>>happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for
>>>>>>HF? Or
>>>>is
>>>>>>the base loaded vertical a joke?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to
>>>>>>try
>>>>and
>>>>>>get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the
>>>>>>block.
>>>>>>...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear
>>>>>>some
>>>>local
>>>>>>AM stations. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Mike AB7RU
>>>>>>
>>>>>>(On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was
>>>>>>able to
>>>>get
>>>>>>a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing
>>>>>>something like
>>>>>>25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found
>>>>>>a
>>>>match
>>>>>>to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not
>>>>>>much...
>>>>but
>>>>>>I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
>>>>>>______________________________________________________________
>>>>>>Elecraft mailing list
>>>>>>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>>>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>>>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>>>Please help support this email list:
>>>>>>http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>>>Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>>>>
>>>>>______________________________________________________________
>>>>>Elecraft mailing list
>>>>>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>>Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>>______________________________________________________________
>>>>Elecraft mailing list
>>>>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>--
>>>73 (or 72 for the QRP folks),
>>>Rich Hurd / WC3T
>>>DMR ID: 3142737
>>>Northampton County RACES
>>>EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
>>>Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988 (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W)
>>>Grid:
>>>*FN20is*
>>>______________________________________________________________
>>>Elecraft mailing list
>>>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>______________________________________________________________
>>Elecraft mailing list
>>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Great advice!

With one exception, every transmitter and receiver I've ever seen has
had an balanced output -- that is, a coaxial connector of some sort.
Current flows in loops -- the center conductor feeds one side of the
loop, the chassis feeds the other. The exception was my very first
transmitter, a military surplus BC-459, which had a single terminal fed
from the output of an internal matching network. The return for output
current was the chassis, which was mounted to the chassis of the
military vehicle or aircraft in which it was used, and the chassis of
that vehicle or aircraft acted as the other half of the antenna.

The suggestion to use a BNC to female "dual Banana" adapter is a very
good one. I've used one for exactly this purpose with my K2 and KX3 when
operating portable. It makes a very easy way to connect wire antennas.

73, Jim K9YC

On 8/13/2017 5:43 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: