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Items you think you can depend on

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k6dgw

Re: Items you think you can depend on

Many many years ago, a colleague on my engineering team showed me an
article entitled, "Where does the electricity go after it leaves the
toaster." I do not remember the name of the journal in which it
appeared, but it was funny, and I've never forgotten the explanation.

The answer to your question is ... "You pretty much answered it," and
you sound more like a physicist or EE than a lawyer. My analogy for
electric current is those little hanging steel ball thingys on some
overpaid executives' desks: Pull the end one out and let it drop and
the far end one shoots out. It's almost instantaneous, as it is with
electrons. You sure feel it if it bangs you in the nose, but it isn't
the same ball that started it all. I think the actual drift rate of an
individual electron, should something like that actually exist, is very
slow and not very far.

Electrons are a lot like snowflakes ... notwithstanding the urban legend
that every one is different, I did a year in the northern interior of
Alaska and rest assured, "Seen one, you've seen 'em all." I charge my
LiFePO4 with a solar panel in the hope that eventually it will be full
of green electrons as opposed to the brown ones it came with. I've
started claiming "green power bonus" in little field outings although
mathematics can only give me a probability that I've replaced all the
brown ones. They're all at the bottom of course, I don't discharge the
battery that far, so I think I'm good here.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/4/2017 7:09 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:

>
> OK, I have to ask this question seriously even though this thread has
> become a spoof.
>
> Is it really the same electrons that flow from the municipal generator
> to our rigs and then back to the powerhouse again? I would have
> guessed that any individual electron motivated by an applied voltage
> would simply have moved an atomic diameter or two to fill in a spot in
> an adjacent depleted valence shell, such that a current flow is
> actually a shuffling of electrons from one positive ion to the next,
> but that individual electrons really don’t move very far. And then
> they all shuffle back the other way every one sixtieth of a second.
> Sort of like cars on Route 128 around Boston, as I recall from my days
> there. On the other hand, maybe the uncertainties in the quantum wave
> function preclude our ever knowing an electron’s position anyway, in
> which case the question is moot, right?
>
> For those who care to respond, be kind. I am a lawyer, not a
> physicist. I will return the graciousness if anyone has a question
> about the mediaeval origins of the writ of coram nobis. Off-line, of
> course.
>
> Ted, KN1CBR
>
>

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Josh Fiden

Re: Items you think you can depend on

In reply to this post by Edward A. Dauer

Having been an undergraduate physics student, I can tell you that this
is a problem that every undergraduate physics student has to solve. The
answer is that all the free electrons in the conductor move. Since
there's a lot of free electrons in the cross section of a piece of wire,
they're not moving very fast. OTOH, 1 amp of current is 6x10^18
electrons flowing past a given point per second, which is an awful lot
of electrons. So, they are moving much farther than some atomic
diameters, but if they want to visit the power company, they're going to
be disappointed. It's called "drift velocity".

73,
Josh W6XU

On 9/4/2017 7:09 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:
> Is it really the same electrons that flow from the municipal generator to our rigs and then back to the powerhouse again? I would have guessed that any individual electron motivated by an applied voltage would simply have moved an atomic diameter or two to fill in a spot in an adjacent depleted valence shell, such that a current flow is actually a shuffling of electrons from one positive ion to the next, but that individual electrons really don’t move very far. And then they all shuffle back the other way every one sixtieth of a second.

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NK7Z

Re: Items you think you can depend on

In reply to this post by Edward A. Dauer

I believe that is correct. A lot of folks thing that electrons move all
over an antenna... They move about an inch...

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 09/04/2017 07:09 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:

> OK, I have to ask this question seriously even though this thread has
> become a spoof.
>
> Is it really the same electrons that flow from the municipal generator
> to our rigs and then back to the powerhouse again? I would have guessed
> that any individual electron motivated by an applied voltage would
> simply have moved an atomic diameter or two to fill in a spot in an
> adjacent depleted valence shell, such that a current flow is actually a
> shuffling of electrons from one positive ion to the next, but that
> individual electrons really don’t move very far. And then they all
> shuffle back the other way every one sixtieth of a second. Sort of like
> cars on Route 128 around Boston, as I recall from my days there. On the
> other hand, maybe the uncertainties in the quantum wave function
> preclude our ever knowing an electron’s position anyway, in which case
> the question is moot, right?
>
> For those who care to respond, be kind. I am a lawyer, not a
> physicist. I will return the graciousness if anyone has a question
> about the mediaeval origins of the writ of coram nobis. Off-line, of
> course.
>
> Ted, KN1CBR
>
> On 09/04/2017 01:26 PM, Bob Steding wrote:
>
> *This means that an electric company can sell a customer the same batch of
>
> electricity thousands of times a day and never get caught, since very few
>
> customers take the time to examine their electricity closely. In fact, the
>
> last year any new electricity was generated was 1937.*
>
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Fred Jensen <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> Yes indeed! For many years, unscrupulous electric power companies have
>
> been capitalizing on the fact that they send electrons to our house and
>
> charge us for them, we toast the bread with them, and then ... get this ...
>
> the electrons we paid for go back to the power company!! They get away
>
> with this because none of us ever inspect our electricity closely.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
>
> Sparks NV DM09dn
>
> Washoe County
>

Jack Brindle-2

Re: Items you think you can depend on

In reply to this post by Christopher Hoover

Let me answer this one by saying that the designers at Elecraft indeed are amateur radio operators, but they are some of the best and most professional engineers I have had the pleasure of working with. The same goes for the other folks who keep things running.

The proof here is in the pudding. Have you seen any issues with the power circuitry in Elecraft products?

Didn’t think so.

Jack, W6FB

> On Sep 4, 2017, at 5:12 PM, Christopher Hoover <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I can answer that one. It is in the equipment manuals. 15V max.
> Some components are rated at that level.
>
> I hope you are saying that the derating for the components was based on a 15V max input. If there are 15V rated parts on the input rail, that's not good.
>
> 73 de AI6KG
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Jack Brindle <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> I can answer that one. It is in the equipment manuals. 15V max.
> Some components are rated at that level.
>
> You really don’t want to go too high or you lose a lot of power dissipated in linear voltage regulators inside the equipment.
> Of course too low and the transmitters can have issues. Things like the KRC2, W2 and other peripherals should be able to
> work pretty well las low as 8 or 9 volts, but they are most happy at the same level as the transceivers.
>
> - Jack, W6FB
>
>
>
> > On Sep 4, 2017, at 4:31 PM, Phil Kane <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> >
> > On 9/4/2017 3:29 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> >
> >> For several decades, 120/240 VAC became the Standard for single-phase
> >> distribution in North America. Those of us who call call it "110" are
> >> showing our age. :)
> >
> > And how many sources refer to it as "115 V" or worse "117 V".
> >
> > That raises the (on topic) question of what is the acceptable
> > excursion/tolerance standard for equipment designed to run on "12 V DC"
> > in light of the LiFePO4 battery discussion here recently.
> >
> > 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> > Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
> >
> > From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
> > Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
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donovanf

Re: Items you think you can depend on

In reply to this post by Jim Finan

Electric power systems voltage ratings are specified in ANSI C84.1-2016

For the USA the standard is 120/240 volts +/- 5 percent

73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "Jim Finan" <[hidden email]>
To: "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>, "Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 12:11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

Even the NEC (US National Electrical Code) is inconsistent. There are references to 120/240, 125/250, etc. Even 125v, 115v. Don't recall seeing 110v lately but it is a thick book and some sections rarely change.

73,

Jim
AB4AC

Jim Finan
Sunny South Florida.

Original Message
From: [hidden email]
Sent: September 4, 2017 6:41 PM
To: [hidden email]
Reply-to: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

I was at the Shelby, NC hamfest this weekend, and we had the KPA1500 for
the Elecraft booth.
I caught myself several times referring to the line voltage required as
220 even though I know better.
My age is showing.

But I do know that if one is operating the KPA1500 in a commercial
building with 3 phase service, the voltage is 120/208.
The KPA1500 power supply is a switcher, and most switchers can tolerate
a wide variation in input AC voltage.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/4/2017 6:29 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 9/4/2017 2:57 PM, Bert Garcia N8NN wrote:
>> 220 VAC in the US it typically 240 volts or more.
>
> For several decades, 120/240 VAC became the Standard for single-phase
> distribution in North America. Those of us who call call it "110" are
> showing our age. :)
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David Woolley (E.L)

Re: Items you think you can depend on

In reply to this post by Phil Kane-2

This appears to be cross-posted between mailing lists, something I would
not recommend. I'm dropping the one to which I am not subscribed.

There are two classes of "12V" equipment:

* equipment designed for lead acid batteries, of which amateur radio
equipment is typical;

* computer equipment.

The former is actually designed for 13.8V with a wide tolerance,
although mainly downwards.

The latter is designed for 12.0V with a tolerance of maybe 5%, and
expectations of rather better. Depending on what it contains, it may
actually tolerate a rather wider range.

--
David Woolley
K2 06123

On 05/09/17 01:09, Phil Kane wrote:
> That is true for Elecraft equipment but I was referring to "generic" 12V
> stuff. For example, some "12 V" things that I use are external disk
> drives, powered USB hubs, radio accessories, and computer peripherals of
> all sorts. Some manuals list this, sometimes we are lucky just to get
> an instruction sheet with pictures let alone text.

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Mike Rhodes-2

Re: Items you think you can depend on

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

So what are people using to monitor their 120/240 mains? Just curious
but wondering if this is something I should be doing.

Mike / W8DN

On 9/4/2017 1:32 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:

> Funny you posted this.
> I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to trigger either line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS happen.
> Always expect the unusual.
> Mel, K6KBE
>
>
> From: David Robertson <[hidden email]>
> To: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
>
> Everyone,
>
> Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as electrical
> power, water and other services over time. Well that can be concerning as
> many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and equipment.
>
> Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham station
> when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I powered it down
> and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up the linear (KPA500)
> and at once I got a fault light and had a high voltage alert. I powered
> down the linear and checked my input line voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To
> be sure it wasn't my imagination I rechecked the voltage with a different
> meter with the same result. In checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274
> volts! My linear is set up for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
> 90 volts HV.
>
> I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then
> called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A short
> time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in the local
> sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line voltage it was
> 118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.
>
> In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's locally
> run power company has been very reliable but this experience showed me that
> it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once in a while.
> 73
>

Jeremiah Peschka

Re: Items you think you can depend on

I’m using an APC UPS as both backup power and a line conditioner. I found it on Amazon for $170 https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B003Y24DEU/

I also keep a second 865W battery backup unit attached to it, just out of paranoia.

Jeremiah Peschka
KG7TXV

On Sep 5, 2017, 11:13 -0700, Mike Rhodes <[hidden email]>, wrote:

> So what are people using to monitor their 120/240 mains? Just curious
> but wondering if this is something I should be doing.
>
> Mike / W8DN
>
> On 9/4/2017 1:32 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:
> > Funny you posted this.
> > I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to trigger either line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS happen.
> > Always expect the unusual.
> > Mel, K6KBE
> >
> >
> > From: David Robertson <[hidden email]
> > To: Elecraft <[hidden email]
> > Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
> > Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
> >
> > Everyone,
> >
> > Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as electrical
> > power, water and other services over time. Well that can be concerning as
> > many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and equipment.
> >
> > Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham station
> > when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I powered it down
> > and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up the linear (KPA500)
> > and at once I got a fault light and had a high voltage alert. I powered
> > down the linear and checked my input line voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To
> > be sure it wasn't my imagination I rechecked the voltage with a different
> > meter with the same result. In checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274
> > volts! My linear is set up for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
> > 90 volts HV.
> >
> > I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then
> > called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A short
> > time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in the local
> > sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line voltage it was
> > 118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.
> >
> > In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's locally
> > run power company has been very reliable but this experience showed me that
> > it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once in a while.
> > 73
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: Items you think you can depend on

In reply to this post by Mike Rhodes-2

I've bought some little Chicom plug-in Line Voltage monitors that are rated
to run from 80 to 300 VAC for about $5 each through eBay, free shipping/no
tax.
They are completely self-contained with the two prong standard US blade plug
built-in.
The background illumination is blue LED and they're about 1/3 the size of a
pack of Lucky's.
The only problem I've found with them is that after about 5 years of 24/7
use, the background illumination isn't as bright as a new one, but still
perfectly readable.

73, Charlie k3ICH

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike Rhodes
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 2:12 PM
To: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

So what are people using to monitor their 120/240 mains? Just curious but
wondering if this is something I should be doing.

Mike / W8DN

On 9/4/2017 1:32 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:
> Funny you posted this.
> I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to
trigger either line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS happen.

> Always expect the unusual.
> Mel, K6KBE
>
>
> From: David Robertson <[hidden email]>
> To: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
>
> Everyone,
>
> Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as
> electrical power, water and other services over time. Well that can be
> concerning as many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and

equipment.

>
> Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham
> station when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I
> powered it down and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up
> the linear (KPA500) and at once I got a fault light and had a high
> voltage alert. I powered down the linear and checked my input line
> voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To be sure it wasn't my imagination I
> rechecked the voltage with a different meter with the same result. In
> checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274 volts! My linear is set up
> for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
> 90 volts HV.
>
> I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then
> called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A
> short time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in
> the local sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line
> voltage it was
> 118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.
>
> In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's
> locally run power company has been very reliable but this experience
> showed me that it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once

Tox

Re: Items you think you can depend on

In the past I'd used the APC SmartUPS discussed previously to handle
voltage stability issues. Used the serial output as a datalogger to track
the grid dips (as low as 90v on 115v mains). This was in the mid-90s; I'd
expect there to be a number of other solutions today.

Scott

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 11:31 AM, Charlie T, K3ICH <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I've bought some little Chicom plug-in Line Voltage monitors that are rated
> to run from 80 to 300 VAC for about $5 each through eBay, free shipping/no
> tax.
> They are completely self-contained with the two prong standard US blade
> plug
> built-in.
> The background illumination is blue LED and they're about 1/3 the size of a
> pack of Lucky's.
> The only problem I've found with them is that after about 5 years of 24/7
> use, the background illumination isn't as bright as a new one, but still
> perfectly readable.
>
> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike Rhodes
> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 2:12 PM
> To: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
>
> So what are people using to monitor their 120/240 mains? Just curious but
> wondering if this is something I should be doing.
>
> Mike / W8DN
>
> On 9/4/2017 1:32 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:
> > Funny you posted this.
> > I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to
> trigger either line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS happen.
> > Always expect the unusual.
> > Mel, K6KBE
> >
> >
> > From: David Robertson <[hidden email]>
> > To: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
> > Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
> >
> > Everyone,
> >
> > Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as
> > electrical power, water and other services over time. Well that can be
> > concerning as many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and
> equipment.
> >
> > Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham
> > station when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I
> > powered it down and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up
> > the linear (KPA500) and at once I got a fault light and had a high
> > voltage alert. I powered down the linear and checked my input line
> > voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To be sure it wasn't my imagination I
> > rechecked the voltage with a different meter with the same result. In
> > checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274 volts! My linear is set up
> > for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
> > 90 volts HV.
> >
> > I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then
> > called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A
> > short time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in
> > the local sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line
> > voltage it was
> > 118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.
> >
> > In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's
> > locally run power company has been very reliable but this experience
> > showed me that it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once
> in a while.
> > 73
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

--
Scott Small
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Items you think you can depend on

In reply to this post by Charlie T, K3ICH

I built up this NEMA box and put the analog current and voltage meters in it. That gave me a good platform to build the peak sensing circuit and alarm. Since I also have solar bank on the ham equipment, I used the battery to sound the alarm when either the voltage goes high or low like in a brown out. Of course that only does good when I am home.........
Mel, K6KBE

From: "Charlie T, K3ICH" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

I've bought some little Chicom plug-in Line Voltage monitors that are rated
to run from 80 to 300 VAC for about $5 each through eBay, free shipping/no
tax.
They are completely self-contained with the two prong standard US blade plug
built-in.
The background illumination is blue LED and they're about 1/3 the size of a
pack of Lucky's.
The only problem I've found with them is that after about 5 years of 24/7
use, the background illumination isn't as bright as a new one, but still
perfectly readable.

73, Charlie k3ICH

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike Rhodes
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 2:12 PM
To: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

So what are people using to monitor their 120/240 mains? Just curious but
wondering if this is something I should be doing.

Mike / W8DN

On 9/4/2017 1:32 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:
> Funny you posted this.
> I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to
trigger either line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS happen.

equipment.

in a while.
> 73
>

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Items you think you can depend on

Administrator

Let's close the thread at this time in the interest of relieving reader
overload. It is well above our normal posting qty limit in a single day.

73,
Eric
Moderator
/elecraft.com/

On 9/5/2017 11:47 AM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:
> I built up this NEMA box and put the analog current and voltage meters in it. That gave me a good platform to build the peak sensing circuit and alarm. Since I also have solar bank on the ham equipment, I used the battery to sound the alarm when either the voltage goes high or low like in a brown out. Of course that only does good when I am home.........
> Mel, K6KBE
>

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Mike Rhodes-2

Re: Items you think you can depend on

In reply to this post by Charlie T, K3ICH

"a pack of Lucky's" huh? You must be from my generation or maybe even a
little before. ;-()
Haven't heard that name in a LONG time.... Thanks for the info.

73 de
Mike / W8DN

On 9/5/2017 2:31 PM, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:

> I've bought some little Chicom plug-in Line Voltage monitors that are rated
> to run from 80 to 300 VAC for about $5 each through eBay, free shipping/no
> tax.
> They are completely self-contained with the two prong standard US blade plug
> built-in.
> The background illumination is blue LED and they're about 1/3 the size of a
> pack of Lucky's.
> The only problem I've found with them is that after about 5 years of 24/7
> use, the background illumination isn't as bright as a new one, but still
> perfectly readable.
>
> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike Rhodes
> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 2:12 PM
> To: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
>
> So what are people using to monitor their 120/240 mains? Just curious but
> wondering if this is something I should be doing.
>
> Mike / W8DN
>
> On 9/4/2017 1:32 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:
>> Funny you posted this.
>> I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to
> trigger either line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS happen.
>> Always expect the unusual.
>> Mel, K6KBE
>>
>>
>> From: David Robertson <[hidden email]>
>> To: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
>> Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
>>
>> Everyone,
>>
>> Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as
>> electrical power, water and other services over time. Well that can be
>> concerning as many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and
> equipment.
>> Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham
>> station when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I
>> powered it down and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up
>> the linear (KPA500) and at once I got a fault light and had a high
>> voltage alert. I powered down the linear and checked my input line
>> voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To be sure it wasn't my imagination I
>> rechecked the voltage with a different meter with the same result. In
>> checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274 volts! My linear is set up
>> for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
>> 90 volts HV.
>>
>> I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then
>> called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A
>> short time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in
>> the local sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line
>> voltage it was
>> 118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.
>>
>> In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's
>> locally run power company has been very reliable but this experience
>> showed me that it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once
> in a while.
>> 73
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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Clay Autery-2

Re: Items you think you can depend on

Before I left for college and from the time I was a VERY small boy, I
had a "military surplus collection" which included several packs of
"Lucky's".... two of which were still part of the rations packs they
came in. <smile>
Additionally, my collection once contained a PRC-25.... <---- making
this radio related. <wink>

Yes, there are many options at this point. I have used the APC
(consumer and commercial) parts that both monitor/report line voltage
(some even quality in addition), AND regulate it if need be.
I also have a box full of non-networked monitors/loggers that simply
plug in between service and device.

I hope to have an active monitoring system at some point that observes,
reports, and can take remedial actions, but that's way down the list.

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 9/5/2017 2:15 PM, Mike Rhodes wrote:

> "a pack of Lucky's" huh? You must be from my generation or maybe even
> a little before. ;-()
> Haven't heard that name in a LONG time.... Thanks for the info.
>
> 73 de
> Mike / W8DN
>
> On 9/5/2017 2:31 PM, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:
>> I've bought some little Chicom plug-in Line Voltage monitors that are
>> rated
>> to run from 80 to 300 VAC for about $5 each through eBay, free
>> shipping/no
>> tax.
>> They are completely self-contained with the two prong standard US
>> blade plug
>> built-in.
>> The background illumination is blue LED and they're about 1/3 the
>> size of a
>> pack of Lucky's.
>> The only problem I've found with them is that after about 5 years of
>> 24/7
>> use, the background illumination isn't as bright as a new one, but still
>> perfectly readable.
>>
>> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike Rhodes
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 2:12 PM
>> To: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
>>
>> So what are people using to monitor their 120/240 mains? Just curious
>> but
>> wondering if this is something I should be doing.
>>
>> Mike / W8DN
>>
>> On 9/4/2017 1:32 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:
>>> Funny you posted this.
>>> I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to
>> trigger either line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS
>> happen.
>>> Always expect the unusual.
>>> Mel, K6KBE
>>>
>>>
>>>         From: David Robertson <[hidden email]>
>>>    To: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
>>>    Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
>>>    Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
>>>      Everyone,
>>>
>>>    Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as
>>> electrical power, water and other services over time. Well that can be
>>> concerning as many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and
>> equipment.
>>> Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham
>>> station when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I
>>> powered it down and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up
>>> the linear (KPA500) and at once I got a fault light and had a high
>>> voltage alert. I powered down the linear and checked my input line
>>> voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To be sure it wasn't my imagination I
>>> rechecked the voltage with a different meter with the same result. In
>>> checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274 volts! My linear is set up
>>> for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
>>> 90 volts HV.
>>>
>>> I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then
>>> called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A
>>> short time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in
>>> the local sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line
>>> voltage it was
>>> 118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.
>>>
>>> In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's
>>> locally run power company has been very reliable but this experience
>>> showed me that it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every
>>> once
>> in a while.
>>> 73
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message
>> delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Carl-N8VZ

Re: Items you think you can depend on

In reply to this post by Mike Rhodes-2

Maybe you want to contribute this experience to list?

Sent from my iPhone
===========================
Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
17 Coventry Lane
Athens, Ohio 45701-3718

[hidden email]
www.n8vz.com
EM89wh

IRLP 4533 Echolink 116070

PSK and JT65 Forever!
===========================

> On Sep 5, 2017, at 2:11 PM, Mike Rhodes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> So what are people using to monitor their 120/240 mains? Just curious but wondering if this is something I should be doing.
>
> Mike / W8DN
>
>> On 9/4/2017 1:32 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:
>> Funny you posted this.
>> I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to trigger either line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS happen.
>> Always expect the unusual.
>> Mel, K6KBE
>>
>>
>> From: David Robertson <[hidden email]>
>> To: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
>> Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
>> Everyone,
>>
>> Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as electrical
>> power, water and other services over time. Well that can be concerning as
>> many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and equipment.
>>
>> Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham station
>> when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I powered it down
>> and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up the linear (KPA500)
>> and at once I got a fault light and had a high voltage alert. I powered
>> down the linear and checked my input line voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To
>> be sure it wasn't my imagination I rechecked the voltage with a different
>> meter with the same result. In checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274
>> volts! My linear is set up for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
>> 90 volts HV.
>>
>> I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then
>> called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A short
>> time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in the local
>> sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line voltage it was
>> 118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.
>>
>> In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's locally
>> run power company has been very reliable but this experience showed me that
>> it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once in a while.
>> 73
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Items you think you can depend on

Administrator

Folks - we closed this thread earlier today.
73,
Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 9/5/2017 3:17 PM, Carl Jón Denbow wrote:
> Maybe you want to contribute this experience to list?
>
>

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David Woolley (E.L)

Re: Items you think you can depend on

In reply to this post by k6mrmagnet

But the electrons only get less than a micron back before they get sent
forward again, and they've only had about 1/120th of a second to rest.
You are lucky they are not unionised, with those working conditions!

--
David Woolley
K2 06123

On 04/09/17 19:09, Ken K6MR wrote:
> Yes, but those electrons are really tired after all the work they did and need to go home to rest and regenerate….
>
> Ken K6MR
>
> From: Fred Jensen<mailto:[hidden email]>

> Yes indeed! For many years, unscrupulous electric power companies have
> been capitalizing on the fact that they send electrons to our house and
> charge us for them, we toast the bread with them, and then ... get this
> ... the electrons we paid for go back to the power company!! They get
> away with this because none of us ever inspect our electricity closely.
>

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kevinr@coho.net

Re: Items you think you can depend on

But how do you un-ionize an electron?

Kevin. KD5ONS

On 9/6/2017 8:35 AM, David Woolley wrote:
>
> But the electrons only get less than a micron back before they get
> sent forward again, and they've only had about 1/120th of a second to
> rest. You are lucky they are not unionised, with those working
> conditions!
>

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Josh Fiden

Re: Items you think you can depend on

In reply to this post by David Woolley (E.L)

AC must be terribly frustrating for the electron. Now I'm sad..

Sent from my mobile device

> On Sep 6, 2017, at 8:35 AM, David Woolley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> But the electrons only get less than a micron back before they get sent forward again, and they've only had about 1/120th of a second to rest. You are lucky they are not unionised, with those working conditions!
>
> --
> David Woolley
> K2 06123
>
>>

Josh Fiden

Re: Items you think you can depend on

In reply to this post by kevinr@coho.net

Two hydrogen atoms step into a bar...

Atom1: Hey, you don't look so good.
Atom2: Yeah, I think I lost my electron.
Atom1: Oh no! Are you sure?
Atom2: I'm positive!

Sorry for the bandwidth on this lengthy OT. Back to work.

73,
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device

>
> But how do you un-ionize an electron?
>
> Kevin. KD5ONS
>
>>
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123