K1-4 4 band version gone?
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Hi Wayne, hi K1 friends,
I followed the discussion about the 4 band module and the problems. I can imagine to design a replacement board with four or even more bands in a way, that the problems with the alignment and the components will be solved. I do not know, if the dialogue to the PIC was ever published ??? Because a board needs to do that dialogue for the bands that are provided. I would redesign that board and offer it to the "K1 family" as a kit with presoldered smd and possibly with ready wound coils so that the handling for the user could be easier ? What do you think...... worth thinking about ??? 73 Herbert CT2IJD |
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
Hi Wayne, hi K1 friends,
I followed the discussion about the 4 band module and the problems. I can imagine to design a replacement board with four or even more bands in a way, that the problems with the alignment and the components will be solved. I do not know, if the dialogue to the PIC was ever published ??? Because a board needs to do that dialogue for the bands that are provided. I would redesign that board and offer it to the "K1 family" as a kit with presoldered smd and possibly with ready wound coils so that the handling for the user could be easier ? What do you think...... worth thinking about ??? 73 Herbert CT2IJD |
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In reply to this post by Bruce Beford-4
I was reminded how capable the K1 is a couple weeks ago at a beach house at Seabrook Island, SC... I broke away from family activities for just a couple hours one night and made solid K1 DX QSOs with Ukraine, Sweden, Italy and others using just a lightweight 20 meter dipole tied to the corner of the house and then slung over a big live oak branch. Spanish moss hanging on the wire overlooking about 15 square miles of salt marsh... Priceless!
Back to topic... perhaps it is time for Elecraft to start offering some "big boy" kits that make full use of SMTs and other modern components. Any serious ham should have a good digital 'scope, and a hot air solder station with a syringe of solder paste (which can be bought new for less than $100). With the right tools, SMTs are the way to go! There is a lot of "real estate" available in the K1 enclosure; an updated 4-band board with some cool, new features to retrofit the K1 would be a great first Elecraft "big boy" kit offering! (I expect that if Elecraft takes a pass on this opportunity, some enterprising Internet mom 'n pop shop will step in.) 73 ES GOD BLESS U ES URS DE KEN N4OI 
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I will second that.
I built two Weber MTRs and in many ways it was easier than through-hole, except for the size. I used a soldering iron. “No soldering required” kits are no fun to me. I would never say that I built my KX3 for instance, only assembled it. Gil. -- PGP Key: http://keskydee.com/gil.asc On Jul 20, 2014, at 8:30 AM, N4OI - Ken <[hidden email]> wrote: > Back to topic... perhaps it is time for Elecraft to start offering some "big > boy" kits that make full use of SMTs and other modern components. Any > serious ham should have a good digital 'scope, and a hot air solder station > with a syringe of solder paste (which can be bought new for less than $100). > With the right tools, SMTs are the way to go! ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by N4OI - Ken
Not all "serious hams" would agree with you. In my
first SMT effort I was very careful but lost one part. Looked all over for it. Two days later I found it in my shoe. I have paste, hot air gun, hot plate -- all the goodies -- but I try to avoid using them, a matter of mental stress -- and, to be honest, age. Something as complex as a K1 would be a bit much. I prefer the pre-mounted SMT component kits, if there are to be SMTs. Phil W7OX On 7/20/14, 5:30 AM, N4OI - Ken wrote: > Any > serious ham should have a good digital 'scope, and a hot air solder station > with a syringe of solder paste (which can be bought new for less than $100). > With the right tools, SMTs are the way to go! > > 73 ES GOD BLESS U ES URS DE KEN N4OI > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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And, not all hams are able to have a workbench or shack to house the
needed gear. Sometimes, things like that intervene. While it would be nice to be able to build, not everyone can, even if they have the desire and experience. Doesn't mean they aren't "serious" about ham radio. 73 de Ray K2ULR KX3 #211 On Jul 20, 2014, at 11:37 AM, Phil Wheeler wrote: > Not all "serious hams" would agree with you. In my first SMT effort > I was very careful but lost one part. Looked all over for it. Two > days later I found it in my shoe. > > I have paste, hot air gun, hot plate -- all the goodies -- but I try > to avoid using them, a matter of mental stress -- and, to be honest, > age. Something as complex as a K1 would be a bit much. I prefer the > pre-mounted SMT component kits, if there are to be SMTs. > > Phil W7OX > > On 7/20/14, 5:30 AM, N4OI - Ken wrote: >> Any >> serious ham should have a good digital 'scope, and a hot air solder >> station >> with a syringe of solder paste (which can be bought new for less >> than $100). >> With the right tools, SMTs are the way to go! >> >> 73 ES GOD BLESS U ES URS DE KEN N4OI >> >> ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Phil Wheeler-2
LOL, yes, size is definitely an issue. I use glasses, a magnifying lens and tweezers. You do not have to cut leads that end up everywhere though. It is precise work, no doubt, especially on the ICs. I know in ten or fifteen years I may not be able to see those parts anymore. I like SMT though, didn’t think I would. With good eyes and a steady hand, anyone can do it.
Gil. -- PGP Key: http://keskydee.com/gil.asc On Jul 20, 2014, at 11:37 AM, Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote: > Not all "serious hams" would agree with you. In my first SMT effort I was very careful but lost one part. Looked all over for it. Two days later I found it in my shoe. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Gil G.
And here's a third.
I built one of Weber's ATS-3B kits and use it on occasion, such as during Field Day 2011. The demand and popularity of his kits is evident as the last run of MTRs sold out literally hours after it was released, see here. There is definitely a niche for SMD kits requiring more builder expertise and involvement than simply assembling modules together. I would love to see an up-to-date SMD transceiver kit with a mix of features lying somewhere between the MTR and the KX3, perhaps even call it a KX2 as others have alluded to. My vision for such a rig would be an integrated station, multiband (at least 80 through 15) with no band module swapping, half the volume or less of a KX3, with internal antenna tuner and battery, and a very simple user interface. It would be CW, or possibly include additional modes but only if the associated volume increase is minimal. I could go on and on but you get the idea. The KX3 is an awesome radio and I am definitely not criticizing it. There just seems to be a huge void between it and the lower-tier rigs. And a solder-required SMD kit is appealing to many builders.
Dave
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Just imagine a KX3 kitted at the parts level. I
wonder if the price would be less than the current offering? Phil W7OX On 7/20/14, 9:22 AM, Dave KW4M wrote: > And here's a third. > > I built one of Weber's ATS-3B kits and use it on occasion, such as during > Field Day 2011. > <http://www.genebitsystems.com/david/HamRadio/FieldDay2011/FieldDay2011.htm> > The demand and popularity of his kits is evident as the last run of MTRs > sold out literally hours after it was released, see here. > <http://w2mdw.blogspot.com/2013/03/steve-webers-mountain-toper-radio-mtr.html> > There is definitely a niche for SMD kits requiring more builder expertise > and involvement than simply assembling modules together. > > I would love to see an up-to-date SMD transceiver kit with a mix of features > lying somewhere between the MTR and the KX3, perhaps even call it a KX2 as > others have alluded to. My vision for such a rig would be an integrated > station, multiband (at least 80 through 15) with no band module swapping, > half the volume or less of a KX3, with internal antenna tuner and battery, > and a very simple user interface. It would be CW, or possibly include > additional modes but only if the associated volume increase is minimal. I > could go on and on but you get the idea. > > The KX3 is an awesome radio and I am definitely not criticizing it. There > just seems to be a huge void between it and the lower-tier rigs. And a > solder-required SMD kit is appealing to many builders. > > > Gil G. wrote >> I will second that. >> >> I built two Weber MTRs and in many ways it was easier than through-hole, >> except for the size. I used a soldering iron. >> “No soldering required” kits are no fun to me. I would never say that I >> built my KX3 for instance, only assembled it. >> >> Gil. >> -- >> PGP Key: http://keskydee.com/gil.asc >> >> On Jul 20, 2014, at 8:30 AM, N4OI - Ken < >> > wrote: >> >>> Back to topic... perhaps it is time for Elecraft to start offering some >>> "big >>> boy" kits that make full use of SMTs and other modern components. Any >>> serious ham should have a good digital 'scope, and a hot air solder >>> station >>> with a syringe of solder paste (which can be bought new for less than >>> $100). >>> With the right tools, SMTs are the way to go! >> ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Phil,
I suspect the cost would be significantly greater than for the assembled board version that we have now. To produce a kit, the parts would have to be pulled and counted, capacitors hand marked for values and packaged in some reasonable manner - that is a lot of labor cost. Much greater than loading a reel of SMD components into an automated placement process as used in a board manufacturing house. It is no wonder that we only see small projects in SMD format. The Steve Weber transceiver kits are an exception. 73, Don W3FPR On 7/20/2014 1:00 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote: > Just imagine a KX3 kitted at the parts level. I wonder if the price > would be less than the current offering? > > Phil W7OX > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Gil G.
On assembling versus building...
I think my hobby of woodworking has almost ripped away my soldering iron from my hot little hands. I still have a solder-kit sitting on my desk ready to be put together (the W1 meter) and it just sits there. All my spare time this summer is building white oak deck chairs for the back patio. Aside from that comment, I do enjoy soldering but I am very glad that Elecraft makes the assembly kits available to we the customers. I like this because: --- I personally enjoy the process of putting it together and maybe even more then using a soldering iron (I really liked my Erector Set as a kid). --- I get enjoyment out of marveling at the great engineering and design that goes into the kits. --- I learn the inner workings somewhat so that future options are not a scary thing to install. In this, soldering in a kit has no advantages to me as I will never been customizing or changing the workings of my Elecraft gear. Even the little electronics diddling that I do at rare times is via a breadboard approach and again not using a soldering iron. My two-bits. 73, phil, K7PEH On Jul 20, 2014, at 7:38 AM, Gil G. <[hidden email]> wrote: > I will second that. > > I built two Weber MTRs and in many ways it was easier than through-hole, except for the size. I used a soldering iron. > “No soldering required” kits are no fun to me. I would never say that I built my KX3 for instance, only assembled it. > > Gil. > -- > PGP Key: http://keskydee.com/gil.asc > > On Jul 20, 2014, at 8:30 AM, N4OI - Ken <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Back to topic... perhaps it is time for Elecraft to start offering some "big >> boy" kits that make full use of SMTs and other modern components. Any >> serious ham should have a good digital 'scope, and a hot air solder station >> with a syringe of solder paste (which can be bought new for less than $100). >> With the right tools, SMTs are the way to go! > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
That was my thinking, too, Don.
Phil W7OX On 7/20/14, 10:16 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Phil, > > I suspect the cost would be significantly > greater than for the assembled board version > that we have now. > To produce a kit, the parts would have to be > pulled and counted, capacitors hand marked for > values and packaged in some reasonable manner - > that is a lot of labor cost. Much greater than > loading a reel of SMD components into an > automated placement process as used in a board > manufacturing house. > > It is no wonder that we only see small projects > in SMD format. The Steve Weber transceiver kits > are an exception. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 7/20/2014 1:00 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote: >> Just imagine a KX3 kitted at the parts level. I >> wonder if the price would be less than the >> current offering? >> >> Phil W7OX >> > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Bruce Beford-4
Oh well, all good things eventually end. Kit building in the conventional
sense is probably a declining interest anyway. Having built both thru-hole and SMT radios (ATS-3B), probably enjoy building about as much as operating. Am thankful to have built a K1-4 (40/30/20/15) several years ago, also two-band boards for 80/17 and 12/10. People who like to build ought to get a K1-2, K2, or KX1 before they all disappear due to parts availability issues. Have never owned a KX1, but for me the K1 is pretty much the ultimate QRP radio. 90% of my operation is on 20M, remainder mostly 40M, with solar cycle 15M has been fun too but in another two years that will be over. 30M has been used maybe twice. A 2-band radio would certainly fill my needs. Changing band modules is a special pain for me because installed the onboard tuner (which is rarely used) into my K1 . The extra boards have spent most of their lives in the desk drawer. I would think a K1-2 for 40 (or 30) and 20 would still be a very good choice for anyone wanting a good performing full-featured QRP radio for home and/or portable. Curt KB5JO ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Curt,
All you say rings true. And this is an especially important point: /Changing band modules is a special pain for me because installed the onboard tuner (which is rarely used) into my K//1/ The band module resides under the ATU board making such changes something not done without some strong motive. If I had the original two-band K1, vs. having the 40/30/20/15 model you have, it would satisfy 95% of my operating needs. Phil W7OX On 7/23/14, 6:09 AM, Curt wrote: > Oh well, all good things eventually end. Kit > building in the conventional sense is probably a > declining interest anyway. Having built both > thru-hole and SMT radios (ATS-3B), probably > enjoy building about as much as operating. > > Am thankful to have built a K1-4 (40/30/20/15) > several years ago, also two-band boards for > 80/17 and 12/10. > People who like to build ought to get a K1-2, > K2, or KX1 before they all disappear due to > parts availability issues. > > Have never owned a KX1, but for me the K1 is > pretty much the ultimate QRP radio. 90% of my > operation is on 20M, remainder mostly 40M, with > solar cycle 15M has been fun too but in another > two years that will be over. 30M has been used > maybe twice. A 2-band radio would certainly > fill my needs. Changing band modules is a > special pain for me because installed the > onboard tuner (which is rarely used) into my K1 > . The extra boards have spent most of their > lives in the desk drawer. > > I would think a K1-2 for 40 (or 30) and 20 would > still be a very good choice for anyone wanting a > good performing full-featured QRP radio for home > and/or portable. > > Curt KB5JO ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Bruce Beford-4
>> Changing band modules is a special pain for me
>> because installed the onboard tuner (which is >> rarely used) into my K//1/ > The band module resides under the ATU board making > such changes something not done without some > strong motive. Tom/N0SS described 14 years ago a simple technique that makes a filter board change when the KAT1 is installed much easier. He cut two segments from a thin rubber band and placed them inside the spacers that separate the KAT1 and KFL1. He threaded the screw coming out below the KAT1 PCB into each spacer with rubber strip in it. That keeps the otherwise loose spacers in place on the screw threads as the screws are turned during KAT1 removal/replacement for subsequent KFL1 swaps. The K1 MCU remembers the frequency display calibration for each band that was set by OFS, using a new KFL1 requires only loosening the two KAT1 PCB screws, removing the KAT1 (the KAT1-KFL1 spacers will now remain on the screw threads as the KAT1 is pulled off), swapping the KFL1, replacing the KAT1, installing the K1 top cover, and assigning b1 and b2 to the new bands. OK...so it's *still* a bit of a pain. But not having to mess with those two PCB spacers below the KAT1 is *major* improvement! Mike / KK5F ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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I am aware of the "rubber band trick", but I find no difficulty at all
in plugging the KAT1 even with loose standoffs. First place the standoffs so they are close to the holes in the board. Next (and most important) put the long screws through the KAT1 board - hold them down with your fingers or thumbs. Now eyeball the top of the standoffs with the end of the screws and insert the screws a bit into the standoffs. Since the screws contact the standoffs before the connector pins come close to their mates, you can now align the connectors and push them home. Wiggle the screws a little bit to get them to drop into the holes on the KFL1 board and tighten them - job done. 73, Don W3FPR On 7/23/2014 1:12 PM, Mike Morrow wrote: >>> Changing band modules is a special pain for me >>> because installed the onboard tuner (which is >>> rarely used) into my K//1/ >> The band module resides under the ATU board making >> such changes something not done without some >> strong motive. > Tom/N0SS described 14 years ago a simple technique that > makes a filter board change when the KAT1 is installed > much easier. He cut two segments from a thin rubber band > and placed them inside the spacers that separate the KAT1 > and KFL1. He threaded the screw coming out below the KAT1 > PCB into each spacer with rubber strip in it. That keeps > the otherwise loose spacers in place on the screw threads > as the screws are turned during KAT1 removal/replacement > for subsequent KFL1 swaps. > > The K1 MCU remembers the frequency display calibration for > each band that was set by OFS, using a new KFL1 requires only > loosening the two KAT1 PCB screws, removing the KAT1 (the > KAT1-KFL1 spacers will now remain on the screw threads as the > KAT1 is pulled off), swapping the KFL1, replacing the KAT1, > installing the K1 top cover, and assigning b1 and b2 to the > new bands. > > OK...so it's *still* a bit of a pain. But not having to mess > with those two PCB spacers below the KAT1 is *major* improvement! > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?
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In reply to this post by Mike Morrow-3
I use the technique with the rubber band and change filter board in 5 minutes from I start to unscrew the first screw of the top cover.
73 de Hal/la4xx K1 2929 On 14-07-23 19:12, Mike Morrow <[hidden email]> wrote: > > >> Changing band modules is a special pain for me > >> because installed the onboard tuner (which is > >> rarely used) into my K//1/ > > > The band module resides under the ATU board making > > such changes something not done without some > > strong motive. > > Tom/N0SS described 14 years ago a simple technique that > makes a filter board change when the KAT1 is installed > much easier. He cut two segments from a thin rubber band > and placed them inside the spacers that separate the KAT1 > and KFL1. He threaded the screw coming out below the KAT1 > PCB into each spacer with rubber strip in it. That keeps > the otherwise loose spacers in place on the screw threads > as the screws are turned during KAT1 removal/replacement > for subsequent KFL1 swaps. > > The K1 MCU remembers the frequency display calibration for > each band that was set by OFS, using a new KFL1 requires only > loosening the two KAT1 PCB screws, removing the KAT1 (the > KAT1-KFL1 spacers will now remain on the screw threads as the > KAT1 is pulled off), swapping the KFL1, replacing the KAT1, > installing the K1 top cover, and assigning b1 and b2 to the > new bands. > > OK...so it's *still* a bit of a pain. But not having to mess > with those two PCB spacers below the KAT1 is *major* improvement! > > Mike / KK5F > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] <[hidden email]> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Michael Byrd
Hi,
what would you think of a six-band module ? Would it be interresting for the elecraft K1 users ? I am think about build one. With afined design which is easier to align with different trim capacitors ! Your opinion ??? 73 Herbert |
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I'm happy with my 4-band module. Works great. And
added backlight yesterday: A very nice rig. A six-band module would be good if you wanted 80-40-30-20-15 and one other band. I've never operated QRP on 80, except PSK31 with the PSK-80. Usually too antenna challenged when portable for QRP on 80, and at home QRN is bad a good part of the time. Before doing a six-band module, make sure the MCU will support six *simultaneous* bands in the K1. Seems like new territory, so Wayne would have to weigh in. Phil W7OX On 7/26/14, 9:34 AM, Humberto wrote: > Hi, > > what would you think of a six-band module ? > Would it be interresting for the elecraft K1 users ? > > I am think about build one. With afined design which > is easier to align with different trim capacitors ! > > Your opinion ??? > > 73 > > Herbert ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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