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K1 Question Please?

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Mike Morrow-3

K1 Question Please?

Alexey wrote of IC socket use where Elecraft did not specify it:

> I don't think there will be any problem...

That statement is definitely NOT correct. IC socket use where not
absolutely required is very bad, amateur, sophmoric engineering.

Do so and Elecraft will not repair the problems that your "improvement"
of their design causes.

Do NOT use IC sockets where Elecraft does NOT specify IC sockets.

Ever.

Anywhere.

Mike / KK5F
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Alexey Kats

Re: K1 Question Please?

I wholeheartedly agree that I did not consider this topic from the
perspective of warranty repairs (never needed it in the past since I
do always do it myself).

But I had been in a situation in a different country where the cost of
a single IC (even though it is very cheap here in US) was close to my
TWO MONTH INCOME. And with the high chances of getting a fried chip at
the bazaar back then the trouble of installing a socket for almost
everything was definitely not sophomoric, amateurish, silly, stupid,
or unnecessary - it was a compromise to bring the cost of highly
likely repairs down (the cost of trashing entire board due to
re-soldering same IC over and over was unacceptable).

Can it be installed? Yes. Can it work? Yes. Will it cause problems
mechanically for further assembly process? No. Will it be as reliable
as soldering? No. Will it be accepted for warranty repairs? No. Will
it decrease the chance of breaking the board trying to unsolder the
fried or mis-installed IC by an inexperienced builder? Yes. Will it
increase the chance of mis-installing IC? Yes. Will it be worth it?
Depends on your personal preference.

Did I miss anything?

On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 10:59 PM, Mike Morrow <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Alexey wrote of IC socket use where Elecraft did not specify it:
>
>> I don't think there will be any problem...
>
> That statement is definitely NOT correct. IC socket use where not
> absolutely required is very bad, amateur, sophmoric engineering.
>
> Do so and Elecraft will not repair the problems that your "improvement"
> of their design causes.
>
> Do NOT use IC sockets where Elecraft does NOT specify IC sockets.
>
> Ever.
>
> Anywhere.
>
> Mike / KK5F
>

--
Alexey Kats (neko)
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Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy

Re: K1 Question Please?

Alexey,

Yes, you didn't mention the type of IC socket :-)

Turned Pin sockets aka Machined Pin sockets provide very reliable
connections, but are more expensive than the "flat contact" type of socket
supplied in many amateur kits which can cause problems.

Turned Pin sockets were used in some telephone exchange equipment before the
advent of SMDs.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD

Alexey Kats wrote on Monday, August 23, 2010 at 7:10 AM:

<snip>

> Can it be installed? Yes. Can it work? Yes. Will it cause problems
> mechanically for further assembly process? No. Will it be as reliable
> as soldering? No. Will it be accepted for warranty repairs? No. Will
> it decrease the chance of breaking the board trying to unsolder the
> fried or mis-installed IC by an inexperienced builder? Yes. Will it
> increase the chance of mis-installing IC? Yes. Will it be worth it?
> Depends on your personal preference.
>
> Did I miss anything?

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Alexey Kats

Re: K1 Question Please?

Agreed. I'd trust something like this:

http://ly.rsdelivers.com/product/winslow/w30514trc/14-way-turned-pin-dil-socket-03in-pitch/0813121.aspx

On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 3:27 AM, Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Alexey,
>
> Yes, you didn't mention the type of IC socket :-)
>
> Turned Pin sockets aka Machined Pin sockets provide very reliable
> connections, but are more expensive than the "flat contact" type of socket
> supplied in many amateur kits which can cause problems.
>
> Turned Pin sockets were used in some telephone exchange equipment before the
> advent of SMDs.
>
> 73,
> Geoff
> GM4ESD
>
>
> Alexey Kats wrote on Monday, August 23, 2010 at 7:10 AM:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Can it be installed? Yes. Can it work? Yes. Will it cause problems
>> mechanically for further assembly process? No. Will it be as reliable
>> as soldering? No. Will it be accepted for warranty repairs? No. Will
>> it decrease the chance of breaking the board trying to unsolder the
>> fried or mis-installed IC by an inexperienced builder? Yes. Will it
>> increase the chance of mis-installing IC? Yes. Will it be worth it?
>> Depends on your personal preference.
>>
>> Did I miss anything?
>
>
>
>
>

Vic K2VCO

Re: K1 Question Please?

In reply to this post by Alexey Kats

The job of replacing a bad soldered-in chip is easy, does not require any special
equipment, and does not threaten the board it's mounted on. Even a klutz like me has done
it many times successfully.

All you need is a small pair of cutters. Cut all the legs of the bad chip near the body
and remove the bad chip.

Then if you feel like it you can unsolder each of the legs one at a time, clean the holes
with solder wick and replace the chip. If you don't want to risk even that or don't have
access to the bottom of the board, just solder the new chip to the old legs.

On 8/22/2010 11:10 PM, Alexey Kats wrote:

> I wholeheartedly agree that I did not consider this topic from the
> perspective of warranty repairs (never needed it in the past since I
> do always do it myself).
>
> But I had been in a situation in a different country where the cost of
> a single IC (even though it is very cheap here in US) was close to my
> TWO MONTH INCOME. And with the high chances of getting a fried chip at
> the bazaar back then the trouble of installing a socket for almost
> everything was definitely not sophomoric, amateurish, silly, stupid,
> or unnecessary - it was a compromise to bring the cost of highly
> likely repairs down (the cost of trashing entire board due to
> re-soldering same IC over and over was unacceptable).
>
> Can it be installed? Yes. Can it work? Yes. Will it cause problems
> mechanically for further assembly process? No. Will it be as reliable
> as soldering? No. Will it be accepted for warranty repairs? No. Will
> it decrease the chance of breaking the board trying to unsolder the
> fried or mis-installed IC by an inexperienced builder? Yes. Will it
> increase the chance of mis-installing IC? Yes. Will it be worth it?
> Depends on your personal preference.
>
> Did I miss anything?

--
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Mike Morrow-3

Re: K1 Question Please?

In reply to this post by Mike Morrow-3

I finally got a chance to search for the list posting by Eric that
stated Elecraft's warranty repair policy if IC sockets are added by
a customer. It was posted more than seven years ago.

Below Eric's concise posting is my longer-winded comment made at that
time.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Morrow, Michael A."
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Re:] K1 Front Panel missing IC Sockets ???

>From Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft:

> We do not recommend adding any sockets. They introduce
> reliability issues in some cases and also can add to
> critical lead lengths in RF areas.
>
> Any problems caused by adding additional sockets to our
> designs also will not be covered by warranty repair.

Socketing all ICs on a PCB is pretty much an obsolete, unnecessary, and
potentially troublesome concept for production (de-bugged) PCBs like those
of the K1.

It's not unlikely that at some point one will have to replace front panel
potentiometers (I had to replace my volume control after a year of
operating), or the VFO pot, or some panel pushbuttons, or the phone jack.
Anything with moving parts. But ICs?? Baring infant mortality or
RF/lightening damage, it's very unlikely one will *ever* need to pull and
replace any IC except those MCUs with updated firmware. Those are all
socketed on the K1 except for the very simple KNB1 MPU, for which the need
for a firmware update will not ever be likely.

----- End of message ------

73,
Mike / KK5F
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