[K1] TX part sick

[Don Wilhelm]

Bert,

The troubleshooting section is about the same - no problem.

Do not rely on the board Rev level to be the same as the manual level.
There is no Rev J K1 board.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/16/2019 9:03 PM, Bert wrote:

> Hi Don, Petr and all,
>
> I have a similar TX problem that I've been working on for a time.
> Reading your emails I realized
> that I'm using a K1 manual Rev. J. 2015.
>
> My K1 is from around 2000, Rev. D, and I'm now asking if the Rev. J of
> the manual is OK to use
> as reference and for troubleshooting?
>

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[Doug Turnbull]

Hi Eric, Madelin has my order  thank you.   Just loaned my KX2 to EI6FR for SOTA use.   Declan is most impressed.   I fell for the KX2 upon seeing it at Friefrichshafen.   So small so much performance and a great display for old eyes.73 Doug EI2CNSent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: "Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft" <[hidden email]> Date: 17/04/2019  00:17  (GMT+00:00) To: Doug Turnbull <[hidden email]>, [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA 1500 CE Approval
    Hi Doug,
     
      Yes, we completed CE official lab testing a while back and the
      shipping amps now have the CE label on them.
     
      73,
   
   
      Eric
      elecraft.com
     
   
    On 4/15/2019 7:08 AM, Doug Turnbull
      wrote:
   
   
      Dear OMs and YLs,
      I looked up the KPA 1500 the other day on my phone and though I saw it
was CE approved.   Since then, I can not find this CE statement.    Does the
KPA 1500 finally have CE approval so that it can now be purchased into the
EU?     I have been waiting for this news for some time as I plan to buy.

             73 Doug EI2CN

PS For those outside the EU, CE approval is somewhat akin to UL approval.
A product can not be sold in the EU without this safety approval.

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[Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS]

Don,

many thanks.
Manual is printed now.
I am going to do it step by step accordingly during coming Easter holiday.
I will report then after...:)

73 Petr



-----
73 - Petr, OK1RP
"Apple & Elecraft freak"
B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt
--
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[Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS]

Hi Don and Bert,

as I noticed this evening > troubleshooting nor alignment parts are not same
in the different Rev. of K1 manuals.

Our sick K1 is also from 2000... RF board Rev. D, 2000 so I am using the
manual Revision D, Dec 1, 2000.
Unfortunately when I measured the resistances on page 45 (J7, J8 test
points) I found the J7 pin 6 has 5.6kOhms to GND but table on page 45 says
it should be >100k.
What makes me confusing is that when I opened the later manual Revision F,
January 24, 2002 I found that in the same table on page 45 the value of J7
pin 6 should be 5-7kOhms which sounds ok compare to my measured value
5.6kOhms... ?!

Don can you let me know some hints what it could means in that case please?
The rest values are same in both tables and measured values are also
corresponding to it.

Bert I will send you the proper manual for your K1 (we have same Rev. ) >
Revision D, Dec 1, 2000 by email.
I got it from Don (many thanks Don!!)

Btw: I reworked the T3 in driver section already > removed secondary turn to have 4 turns only.
Now I would like to go thu all checks in manual.

Thanks for help in advance.

73 Petr



-----
73 - Petr, OK1RP
"Apple & Elecraft freak"
B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt
--
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[Don Wilhelm]

Petr,

Do you have the filter board plugged in when you read 5.6k ohms?

Note in the Revision D manual, the filter board is NOT plugged in when
making the resistance measurements on page 45.

The filter board is not plugged in until you get to page 46.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/21/2019 5:57 PM, Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS wrote:

> Hi Don and Bert,
>
> as I noticed this evening > troubleshooting nor alignment parts are not same
> in the different Rev. of K1 manuals.
>
> Our sick K1 is also from 2000... RF board Rev. D, 2000 so I am using the
> manual Revision D, Dec 1, 2000.
> Unfortunately when I measured the resistances on page 45 (J7, J8 test
> points) I found the J7 pin 6 has 5.6kOhms to GND but table on page 45 says
> it should be >100k.
> What makes me confusing is that when I opened the later manual Revision F,
> January 24, 2002 I found that in the same table on page 45 the value of J7
> pin 6 should be 5-7kOhms which souns ok compare to my measured value
> 5.6kOhms... ?!
>

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[VE3NR]

HI Don and Petr,

Thanks for the offer Petr but Don has already been kind enough to send
me the Rev. D, 2000 K1 Manual. Thanks anyway!

I find it quite difficult sometimes to troubleshoot and follow the
schematics. Also doing signal tracing in the receiver and
transmitter is quite subjective using only an RF probe. It would be
better to have some RF values p-p so you could use
a oscilloscope and at the same time see the signal.

This is an older radio so I don't expect Elecraft to come up with some
new troubleshooting aids, but the K1 owners can
share experiences and test results.

I've just measured the resistance between J7-pin 6 to ground and it's 5.7K.

Please keep me in the loop. Thanks to both of you. Comments from other
k! owners are appreciated.

Thanks!

Bert VE3NR





On 4/21/2019 5:57 PM, Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS wrote:

> Hi Don and Bert,
>
> as I noticed this evening > troubleshooting nor alignment parts are not same
> in the different Rev. of K1 manuals.
>
> Our sick K1 is also from 2000... RF board Rev. D, 2000 so I am using the
> manual Revision D, Dec 1, 2000.
> Unfortunately when I measured the resistances on page 45 (J7, J8 test
> points) I found the J7 pin 6 has 5.6kOhms to GND but table on page 45 says
> it should be >100k.
> What makes me confusing is that when I opened the later manual Revision F,
> January 24, 2002 I found that in the same table on page 45 the value of J7
> pin 6 should be 5-7kOhms which souns ok compare to my measured value
> 5.6kOhms... ?!
>
> Don can you let me know some hints what it could means in that case please?
> The rest values are same in both tables and measured values are also
> corresponding to it.
>
> Bert I will send you the proper manual for your K1 (we have same Rev. ) >
> Revision D, Dec 1, 2000 by email.
> I got it from Don (many thanks Don!!)
>
> Thanks for help in advance.
>
> 73 Petr
>
>
>
> -----
> 73 - Petr, OK1RP
> "Apple & Elecraft freak"
> B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
> MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
> MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> ______________________________________________________________
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[VE3NR]

Don and Petr,

Forgot to mention that measurement was done with filter board plugged
in. 5.7K

Bert VE3NR



On 4/21/2019 6:26 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Petr,
>
> Do you have the filter board plugged in when you read 5.6k ohms?
>
> Note in the Revision D manual, the filter board is NOT plugged in when
> making the resistance measurements on page 45.
>
> The filter board is not plugged in until you get to page 46.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 4/21/2019 5:57 PM, Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS wrote:
>> Hi Don and Bert,
>>
>> as I noticed this evening > troubleshooting nor alignment parts are
>> not same
>> in the different Rev. of K1 manuals.
>>
>> Our sick K1 is also from 2000... RF board Rev. D, 2000 so I am using the
>> manual Revision D, Dec 1, 2000.
>> Unfortunately when I measured the resistances on page 45 (J7, J8 test
>> points) I found the J7 pin 6 has 5.6kOhms to GND but table on page 45
>> says
>> it should be >100k.
>> What makes me confusing is that when I opened the later manual
>> Revision F,
>> January 24, 2002 I found that in the same table on page 45 the value
>> of J7
>> pin 6 should be 5-7kOhms which souns ok compare to my measured value
>> 5.6kOhms... ?!
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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[Don Wilhelm]

Bert,

Multiply the RF Voltages listed for the RF Probe by 2.8 to get the peak
to peak RF voltages observed with an oscilloscope.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/21/2019 9:13 PM, Bert wrote:

> HI Don and Petr,
>
> Thanks for the offer Petr but Don has already been kind enough to send
> me the Rev. D, 2000 K1 Manual. Thanks anyway!
>
> I find it quite difficult sometimes to troubleshoot and follow the
> schematics. Also doing signal tracing in the receiver and
> transmitter is quite subjective using only an RF probe. It would be
> better to have some RF values p-p so you could use
> a oscilloscope and at the same time see the signal.
>

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[Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS]

Don and Bert,

Thanks for inputs from both.

All measurement was done without the filter board.

Petr



-----
73 - Petr, OK1RP
"Apple & Elecraft freak"
B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt
--
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[Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS]

Hi Don,

yes filter board was not inserted during these tests on page
45...(resistance tests)

Thanks for hints,

Petr



-----
73 - Petr, OK1RP
"Apple & Elecraft freak"
B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt
--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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[Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS]

Hi all,

so another evening spent with K1...

As Don suggested we stepped back and revised the band module for correct
winding and resistance check. I found that all LPF cores are not correct.
L9-L10 with 22t instead of 21t and L11-L12 with 14t instead of 15t for
40/20m band. So I am going to reworking them.

Also we went thru voltage check on RF board and all seems ok according to
alignment manual page.

Finaly we re-checked all diodes for type and polarity as it is most common
issue mentioned in troubleshooting manual pages. OK

Next part - today evening...

73



-----
73 - Petr, OK1RP
"Apple & Elecraft freak"
B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt
--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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[Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS]

Hi all,

another work in lab on son’s K1 done. On KFL1-2 the K2,K3 relays replaced,
L11,L12 reworked for correct 15t on cores (0.8uH)... Now its waiting for
band module resistance re-check and re-tweaking TX part this evening. I
wonder if it will be finished successfuly...



-----
73 - Petr, OK1RP
"Apple & Elecraft freak"
B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt
--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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[Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS]

Hi all,

so all TX parts alignment went ok. All resistances, voltages and filters / power
re-peaking at 2W is in spec.
Also 5W test seemed ok until I noticed strange behavior > the power
fluctuation on key down as same as after band switching...
Short vid is here:
https://youtu.be/lpf8GT09wv8

You can see the power on 40m is at 5W for the first key down.
After switching to 20m then back to 40M is only 4.5W.
Last one after switching up and down back to 40m is only 4W and it jumps to 5W during key down...

I am dissapointed as we thought to finish all work this evening successfuly.
I have no idea what could be wrong as I replaced K1-3 relays on band module,
checked all coils, caps, also diodes on RF board... :(

Will be happy for any hints,

Mni thanks in advance.



-----
73 - Petr, OK1RP
"Apple & Elecraft freak"
B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt
--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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[VE3NR]

Hi Petr,

I've checked you video and interestingly enough I have the same or
similar problem with my K1.

Sometimes the power output goes to the full programmed output and pulls
back 1 watt or so. It doesn't
happen every time I transmit but quite often and I can't figure what's
wrong.

Looking forward to find a solution for both of us.

73 Bert VE3NR



On 5/10/2019 8:24 PM, Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> so all TX part alignment went ok. All resistances, voltages and finaly power
> re-peaking is in spec.
> Also 5W test seemed ok until I noticed strange behavior > the power
> fluctuation on key down as same
> as after band switching...
> Short vid is here:
> https://youtu.be/lpf8GT09wv8
>
> I am dissapointed as we thought to finish all work this evening successfuly.
> I have no idea what could be wrong as I replaced K1-3 relays on band module,
> checked all coils,
> caps, also diodes on RF board... :(
>
> Will be happy for any hints,
>
> Mni thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> -----
> 73 - Petr, OK1RP
> "Apple & Elecraft freak"
> B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
> MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
> MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> ______________________________________________________________
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[Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS]

Hi Bert,

Even I noticed that power jumps sometimes also down... not only up as shown
on vid. It happends on band 1 - 40m in my case, band 2 - 20m seems ok.

regards,



-----
73 - Petr, OK1RP
"Apple & Elecraft freak"
B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt
--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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[Don Wilhelm]

Petr,

There may be nothing wrong.  The POWER control line originates at the U2
DAC on the front panel and is applied to Q5 on the RF Board.
You should check all components associated with Q5 to be certain of the
value and good soldering.

Since the POWER signal line is derived digitally from data out of the
MCU, it may be that the "problem" is simply one of digital resolution.
If the real value is in between 2 DAC steps, the POWER output signal can
vary between the two DAC steps causing the situation that you observed.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/10/2019 8:24 PM, Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> so all TX part alignment went ok. All resistances, voltages and finaly power
> re-peaking is in spec.
> Also 5W test seemed ok until I noticed strange behavior > the power
> fluctuation on key down as same
> as after band switching...
> Short vid is here:
> https://youtu.be/lpf8GT09wv8
>
> I am dissapointed as we thought to finish all work this evening successfuly.
> I have no idea what could be wrong as I replaced K1-3 relays on band module,
> checked all coils,
> caps, also diodes on RF board... :(
>
> Will be happy for any hints,
>
> Mni thanks in advance.

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[Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS]

Hi Don,

many thanks for kind help and reply.
Unfortunately I don't think its DAC sampling issue...

I checked it happends on any power level (not depending to the power level
setting)
and it happends in my case only on 40m (band 1).
Also I realized that the power variation is sometime 0.5W and sometime 2W...
and even
more sometime its jumping up and sometime jumping down.
What is most strange is that when I am not touching the band switching
button it seems to
be stable > even on lower power (instead of pre-set power) it does not
changes.

I checked our second K1 which is for long time used by my daddy and I did
not realized anything
like that on this radio.

I will try to verify all parts around the Q5 as you suggested.
I will be happy for any other kind of hint or tips...





-----
73 - Petr, OK1RP
"Apple & Elecraft freak"
B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt
--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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[Don Wilhelm]

Petr,

Check the VPOWER signal line to see if there is any DC level change.
If is is a steady DC level, then try changing QW5 and/or D18.

If VPOWER varies, then the MCU or DAC is causing the variation.  In that
case, I would try a Master Reset (See manual Reset to Factory defaults),
but first record your menu settings and restore them after the reset.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/13/2019 4:06 AM, Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS wrote:

> Hi Don,
>
> many thanks for kind help and reply.
> Unfortunately I don't think its DAC sampling issue...
>
> I checked it happends on any power level (not depending to the power level
> setting)
> and it happends in my case only on 40m (band 1).
> Also I realized that the power variation is sometime 0.5W and sometime 2W...
> and even
> more sometime its jumping up and sometime jumping down.
> What is most strange is that when I am not touching the band switching
> button it seems to
> be stable > even on lower power (instead of pre-set power) it does not
> changes.
>
> I checked our second K1 which is for long time used by my daddy and I did
> not realized anything
> like that on this radio.
>
> I will try to verify all parts around the Q5 as you suggested.
> I will be happy for any other kind of hint or tips...
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> 73 - Petr, OK1RP
> "Apple & Elecraft freak"
> B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
> MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
> MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> ______________________________________________________________
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[Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS]

Hi Don,

Perfect. Many thanks for few hints.

I will do it step by step.
At first I will check physicaly the parts and soldering around the Q5.
Then after I will try to measure the POWER voltage line (R10) for its
stability.
If needed i can replace both the Q5 and D18.

The only I am worrying a bit about the factory reset if MCU/DAC sampling
issue as I am not sure what should be re-aligned then after. I read in manual "VFO
calibration etc."
So I hope that it will not be needed...

I will let you know soon.
In any case many thanks Don for your assistance and help.

73 Petr



-----
73 - Petr, OK1RP
"Apple & Elecraft freak"
B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt
--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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[Don Wilhelm]

Petr,

After the reset, you should not have to do VFO calibration, but you will
need to set the VFO Offset (CAL OPF) in the menu.  That requires only a
known frequency signal for each band that is installed and button taps.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/13/2019 11:45 AM, Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS wrote:

> Hi Don,
>
> perfect. many thanks for few hints.
>
> i will do it step by step.
> At first I will check physicaly the parts and soldering around the Q5.
> Then after I will try to measure the POWER voltage line (R10) for its
> stability.
> If needed i can replace both the Q5 and D18.
>
> the only I am worrying a bit about the factory reset if MCU/DAC sampling
> issue
> as I am not sure what should be re-aligned then after. I read in manual "VFO
> calibration etc."
> So I hope that it will not be needed...
>
> I will let you know soon.
> In any case many thanks Don for your assistance and help.
>
> 73 Petr
>
>
>
> -----
> 73 - Petr, OK1RP
> "Apple & Elecraft freak"
> B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
> MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
> MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

______________________________________________________________
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