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K1 with Issues

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cstoverva

K1 with Issues

My K1 (sn2450) went together back in Oct 07 without a hitch and has been working flawlessly ever since.

A big glitch showed up tonight.? When I pushed the attenuator button it started transmitting dashes.? That cleared by cycling the power.? I then tried sending the content of memory 1.? It began sending that message, stopped, "end" appeared in the display, then started transmitting alternating dots and dashes.? When locked in transmit, the display blanks out.? Initially I verified that it was transmitting with another receiver, but now it seems to have lost output too.? It was hooked up to a resonant antenna or dummy load, so I wouldn't think the final fried.? I'm running it off a supply at 13.6VDC.?

A voltage check of RA3 pin 5 of the MCU shows 5.6V with both dot and dash contacts open.? When the WPM-/attn button is held the dashes start sending and the pin 5 voltage drops to 5.0 even? though the contacts are still open.

I've been awake too long and not much is making sense, so I'm going to call it a night.? Any ideas or suggestions on where to look would be greatly appreciated.

Chuck? K4QS
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K1 with Issues

Chuck,

Make certain you have a dummy load connected to the K1 (it is
transmitting) and continually tap the WPM- button to try to lower the
power level for the testing that you need to do.

Theory:
The K1 uses one MCU pin (KEYIN) as an analog input to determine whether
the dot paddle, dash paddle or both have been closed. The resistors
that determine the 3 levels are on the RF Board.
R19, R20, and 2 sections of RP5. The voltage at pins 4 and 5 of RP5
will determine the static voltage of all points in the circuit.

What to do:
Measure the voltage at pins 4 and 5 of RF Board RP5 and compare with the
voltage at Front Panel U1 pin 5. They should be the very close to the
same voltage. If not, check the values of R19 and R20 and re-flow the
soldering of RP5, R19 and R20.

If you had ever attempted to clean the flux from your K1, that could be
the cause. If some flux cleaner residue wicked up under the key jack,
it can create a leakage path which would explain your problem. The only
cure is to remove the key jack and clean both the board area under the
jack and the bottom of the key jack.

It is conceivable that the key jack itself could have some kind of
leakage path inside. To check, you will have to remove the key jack and
replace it if necessary.

Do the solder re-flow first - a bad connection can work fine for a
while, and then fail later after a bit of oxidation occurs. If that
does not cure it, remove the key jack and check again with the jack
out. Replace the key jack if required.

73,
Don W3FPR

[hidden email] wrote:

> My K1 (sn2450) went together back in Oct 07 without a hitch and has been working flawlessly ever since.
>
> A big glitch showed up tonight.? When I pushed the attenuator button it started transmitting dashes.? That cleared by cycling the power.? I then tried sending the content of memory 1.? It began sending that message, stopped, "end" appeared in the display, then started transmitting alternating dots and dashes.? When locked in transmit, the display blanks out.? Initially I verified that it was transmitting with another receiver, but now it seems to have lost output too.? It was hooked up to a resonant antenna or dummy load, so I wouldn't think the final fried.? I'm running it off a supply at 13.6VDC.?
>
> A voltage check of RA3 pin 5 of the MCU shows 5.6V with both dot and dash contacts open.? When the WPM-/attn button is held the dashes start sending and the pin 5 voltage drops to 5.0 even? though the contacts are still open.
>
> I've been awake too long and not much is making sense, so I'm going to call it a night.? Any ideas or suggestions on where to look would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Chuck? K4QS
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.57/2060 - Release Date: 04/15/09 06:34:00
>
>

cstoverva

Re: K1 with Issues

Hi Don,

Your comment about using flux cleaner struck a nerve with me.? I didn't have any cleaner at the time of completion and obtained some a while back.? I don't remember exactly when.? I had an idle mind and hands one day and opened up the K1 to spiff things up.? I let it dry for a week and put it back together and it worked fine.

The keying misbehaved a little during the previous use of the K1.? I cleaned the paddle contacts and reseated the plug and all seemed well.? Problem solved, or so I thought.? These two events probably relate.

At first opportunity I will make the voltage checks and take a look under the key jack. I'll post the results.? Right now I'm off to install an antenna on my Volunteer Fire Departments new utility truck.

Thanks.

73,? Chuck K4QS

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 8:47 am
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K1 with Issues

Chuck,?
?

Make certain you have a dummy load connected to the K1 (it is
transmitting) and continually tap the WPM- button to try to lower the
power level for the testing that you need to do.?
?

Theory:?

The K1 uses one MCU pin (KEYIN) as an analog input to determine whether
the dot paddle, dash paddle or both have been closed. The resistors
that determine the 3 levels are on the RF Board.?

R19, R20, and 2 sections of RP5. The voltage at pins 4 and 5 of RP5
will determine the static voltage of all points in the circuit.?
?

What to do:?

Measure the voltage at pins 4 and 5 of RF Board RP5 and compare with the
voltage at Front Panel U1 pin 5. They should be the very close to the
same voltage. If not, check the values of R19 and R20 and re-flow the
soldering of RP5, R19 and R20.?
?

If you had ever attempted to clean the flux from your K1, that could be
the cause. If some flux cleaner residue wicked up under the key jack,
it can create a leakage path which would explain your problem. The only
cure is to remove the key jack and clean both the board area under the
jack and the bottom of the key jack.?
?

It is conceivable that the key jack itself could have some kind of
leakage path inside. To check, you will have to remove the key jack and
replace it if necessary.?
?

Do the solder re-flow first - a bad connection can work fine for a
while, and then fail later after a bit of oxidation occurs. If that
does not cure it, remove the key jack and check again with the jack
out. Replace the key jack if required.?
?

73,?

Don W3FPR?
?

[hidden email] wrote:?

> My K1 (sn2450) went together back in Oct 07 without a hitch and has been working flawlessly ever since.?

>?

> A big glitch showed up tonight.? When I pushed the attenuator button it started transmitting dashes.? That cleared by cycling the power.? I then tried sending the content of memory 1.? It began sending that message, stopped, "end" appeared in the display, then started transmitting alternating dots and dashes.? When locked in transmit, the display blanks out.? Initially I verified that it was transmitting with another receiver, but now it seems to have lost output too.? It was hooked up to a resonant antenna or dummy load, so I wouldn't think the final fried.? I'm running it off a supply at 13.6VDC.?
>?

> A voltage check of RA3 pin 5 of the MCU shows 5.6V with both dot and dash contacts open.? When the WPM-/attn button is held the dashes start sending and the pin 5 voltage drops to 5.0 even? though the contacts are still open.?

>?

> I've been awake too long and not much is making sense, so I'm going to call it a night.? Any ideas or suggestions on where to look would be greatly appreciated.?

>?

> Chuck? K4QS
> ______________________________________________________________?

> Elecraft mailing list?

> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft?

> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm?

> Post: mailto:[hidden email]?

>?

> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net?

> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html?

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?

>?

>?

> No virus found in this incoming message.?

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.57/2060 - Release Date: 04/15/09 06:34:00?

>?

>

______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K1 with Issues

Chuck,

Flux cleaners are *not* recommended for that very reason. The flux
residue by itself is non-conductive, but when combined with a cleaner,
it can create high resistance (leakage) paths unless it is completely
removed. Flushing an area with cleaner is almost certain to cause
trouble, and can result in 'mysterious behaviors' that are hard to track
down and expensive repairs.

If a builder finds a need to remove the flux, it is best done using a
cotton swab (Q-Tip) and denatured alcohol or rubbing alcohol working
only in small areas at a time.

73,
Don W3FPR

[hidden email] wrote:

> Hi Don,
>
> Your comment about using flux cleaner struck a nerve with me.? I didn't have any cleaner at the time of completion and obtained some a while back.? I don't remember exactly when.? I had an idle mind and hands one day and opened up the K1 to spiff things up.? I let it dry for a week and put it back together and it worked fine.
>
> The keying misbehaved a little during the previous use of the K1.? I cleaned the paddle contacts and reseated the plug and all seemed well.? Problem solved, or so I thought.? These two events probably relate.
>
> At first opportunity I will make the voltage checks and take a look under the key jack. I'll post the results.? Right now I'm off to install an antenna on my Volunteer Fire Departments new utility truck.
>
> Thanks.
>
> 73,? Chuck K4QS
>
>

Peter Wollan-2

Re: K1 with Issues

In reply to this post by cstoverva

I read Chuck's description of his problem, and I thought, "What in the
world?"

Don Wilhelm deserves a round of applause for this diagnosis.

Peter N8MHD

On 4/16/09, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Don,
>
> Your comment about using flux cleaner struck a nerve with me.? I didn't
> have any cleaner at the time of completion and obtained some a while back.?
> I don't remember exactly when.? I had an idle mind and hands one day and
> opened up the K1 to spiff things up.? I let it dry for a week and put it
> back together and it worked fine.
>
> The keying misbehaved a little during the previous use of the K1.? I
> cleaned the paddle contacts and reseated the plug and all seemed well.?
> Problem solved, or so I thought.? These two events probably relate.
>
> At first opportunity I will make the voltage checks and take a look under
> the key jack. I'll post the results.? Right now I'm off to install an
> antenna on my Volunteer Fire Departments new utility truck.
>
> Thanks.
>
> 73,? Chuck K4QS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Sent: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 8:47 am
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K1 with Issues
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Chuck,?
> ?
>
> Make certain you have a dummy load connected to the K1 (it is
> transmitting) and continually tap the WPM- button to try to lower the
> power level for the testing that you need to do.?
> ?
>
> Theory:?
>
> The K1 uses one MCU pin (KEYIN) as an analog input to determine whether
> the dot paddle, dash paddle or both have been closed. The resistors
> that determine the 3 levels are on the RF Board.?
>
> R19, R20, and 2 sections of RP5. The voltage at pins 4 and 5 of RP5
> will determine the static voltage of all points in the circuit.?
> ?
>
> What to do:?
>
> Measure the voltage at pins 4 and 5 of RF Board RP5 and compare with the
> voltage at Front Panel U1 pin 5. They should be the very close to the
> same voltage. If not, check the values of R19 and R20 and re-flow the
> soldering of RP5, R19 and R20.?
> ?
>
> If you had ever attempted to clean the flux from your K1, that could be
> the cause. If some flux cleaner residue wicked up under the key jack,
> it can create a leakage path which would explain your problem. The only
> cure is to remove the key jack and clean both the board area under the
> jack and the bottom of the key jack.?
> ?
>
> It is conceivable that the key jack itself could have some kind of
> leakage path inside. To check, you will have to remove the key jack and
> replace it if necessary.?
> ?
>
> Do the solder re-flow first - a bad connection can work fine for a
> while, and then fail later after a bit of oxidation occurs. If that
> does not cure it, remove the key jack and check again with the jack
> out. Replace the key jack if required.?
> ?
>
> 73,?
>
> Don W3FPR?
> ?
>
> [hidden email] wrote:?
>
> > My K1 (sn2450) went together back in Oct 07 without a hitch and has been
> working flawlessly ever since.?
>
> >?
>
> > A big glitch showed up tonight.? When I pushed the attenuator button it
> started transmitting dashes.? That cleared by cycling the power.? I then
> tried sending the content of memory 1.? It began sending that message,
> stopped, "end" appeared in the display, then started transmitting
> alternating dots and dashes.? When locked in transmit, the display blanks
> out.? Initially I verified that it was transmitting with another receiver,
> but now it seems to have lost output too.? It was hooked up to a resonant
> antenna or dummy load, so I wouldn't think the final fried.? I'm running it
> off a supply at 13.6VDC.?
> >?
>
> > A voltage check of RA3 pin 5 of the MCU shows 5.6V with both dot and dash
> contacts open.? When the WPM-/attn button is held the dashes start sending
> and the pin 5 voltage drops to 5.0 even? though the contacts are still
> open.?
>
> >?
>
> > I've been awake too long and not much is making sense, so I'm going to
> call it a night.? Any ideas or suggestions on where to look would be greatly
> appreciated.?
>
> >?
>
> > Chuck? K4QS
> > ______________________________________________________________?
>
> > Elecraft mailing list?
>
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft?
>
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm?
>
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]?
>
> >?
>
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net?
>
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html?
>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
>
> >?
>
> >?
>
> > No virus found in this incoming message.?
>
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.57/2060 - Release Date:
> 04/15/09 06:34:00?
>
> >?
>
> >
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Bill Johnson-9

K1 with Issues: Don to the rescue!!!

I agree... Don is amazing! I look for his comments even if I don't have any
issues. Hats off to Don!!

73,

Bill
K9YEQ
K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods
ATS-3B
-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K1 with Issues

I read Chuck's description of his problem, and I thought, "What in the
world?"

Don Wilhelm deserves a round of applause for this diagnosis.

Peter N8MHD

On 4/16/09, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Don,
>
> Your comment about using flux cleaner struck a nerve with me.? I didn't
>
> Measure the voltage at pins 4 and 5 of RF Board RP5 and compare with the
> voltage at Front Panel U1 pin 5. They should be the very close to the
> same voltage. If not, check the values of R19 and R20 and re-flow the
> soldering of RP5, R19 and R20.?
> ?
>
> If you had ever attempted to clean the flux from your K1, that could be
> the cause. If some flux cleaner residue wicked up under the key jack,
> it can create a leakage path which would explain your problem. The only
> cure is to remove the key jack and clean both the board area under the
> jack and the bottom of the key jack.?
> ?
>
> It is conceivable that the key jack itself could have some kind of
> leakage path inside. To check, you will have to remove the key jack and
> replace it if necessary.?
> ?
>
> Do the solder re-flow first - a bad connection can work fine for a
> while, and then fail later after a bit of oxidation occurs. If that
> does not cure it, remove the key jack and check again with the jack
> out. Replace the key jack if required.?
> ?
>
> 73,?
>
> Don W3FPR?
> ?
>
> [hidden email] wrote:?
>
> > My K1 (sn2450) went together back in Oct 07 without a hitch and has been
> working flawlessly ever since.?
>
> >?
>
> > A big glitch showed up tonight.? When I pushed the attenuator button it
> started transmitting dashes.? That cleared by cycling the power.? I then
> tried sending the content of memory 1.? It began sending that message,
> stopped, "end" appeared in the display, then started transmitting
> alternating dots and dashes.? When locked in transmit, the display blanks
> out.? Initially I verified that it was transmitting with another receiver,
> but now it seems to have lost output too.? It was hooked up to a resonant
> antenna or dummy load, so I wouldn't think the final fried.? I'm running

it
> off a supply at 13.6VDC.?
> >?
>
> > A voltage check of RA3 pin 5 of the MCU shows 5.6V with both dot and
dash
> contacts open.? When the WPM-/attn button is held the dashes start sending
> and the pin 5 voltage drops to 5.0 even? though the contacts are still
> open.?
>
> >?
>
> > I've been awake too long and not much is making sense, so I'm going to
> call it a night.? Any ideas or suggestions on where to look would be
greatly

> appreciated.?
>
> >?
>
> > Chuck? K4QS
> > ______________________________________________________________?
>
> > Elecraft mailing list?
>
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft?
>
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm?
>
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]?
>
> >?
>
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net?
>
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html?
>
> >

------------------------------------------------------------------------?

>
> >?
>
> >?
>
> > No virus found in this incoming message.?
>
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.57/2060 - Release Date:
> 04/15/09 06:34:00?
>
> >?
>
> >
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

cstoverva

Re: K1 with Issues

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Hi Don,

You nailed it!? Lesson learned on my part.?

There was a difference in voltages between pins 4 and 5 of RP5 and pin 5 of U1.? I cleaned up around RP5, R19 and R20 and reflowed the solder connections with no real change in symptoms.? I lifted the key jack from the board.? Although I could see nothing with my eyes on the board, when I swabbed the area with a Q tip and Isopropyl the Q tip turned bright red.

The loss of transmit I noted turn out to be a loss of both transmit and receive.? I was on the dummy load so didn't notice how quiet the receiver was until I switched to an antenna.? Apparently a relay got hung up in all the electronic commotion.? I cycled the band switch and everything popped back to life when I came back to band 1.

I disassembled the rig and gave each board a good cleaning and didn't find anymore red stuff.

It's all back together now and working fine.

Thanks.

Chuck K4QS

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 9:38 am
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K1 with Issues

Chuck,?
?

Flux cleaners are *not* recommended for that very reason. The flux
residue by itself is non-conductive, but when combined with a cleaner,
it can create high resistance (leakage) paths unless it is completely
removed. Flushing an area with cleaner is almost certain to cause
trouble, and can result in 'mysterious behaviors' that are hard to track
down and expensive repairs.?
?

If a builder finds a need to remove the flux, it is best done using a
cotton swab (Q-Tip) and denatured alcohol or rubbing alcohol working
only in small areas at a time.?
?

73,?

Don W3FPR?
?

[hidden email] wrote:?

> Hi Don,?

>?

> Your comment about using flux cleaner struck a nerve with me.? I didn't have any cleaner at the time of completion and obtained some a while back.? I don't remember exactly when.? I had an idle mind and hands one day and opened up the K1 to spiff things up.? I let it dry for a week and put it back together and it worked fine.?

>?

> The keying misbehaved a little during the previous use of the K1.? I cleaned the paddle contacts and reseated the plug and all seemed well.? Problem solved, or so I thought.? These two events probably relate.?

>?

> At first opportunity I will make the voltage checks and take a look under the key jack. I'll post the results.? Right now I'm off to install an antenna on my Volunteer Fire Departments new utility truck.?

>?

> Thanks.?

>?

> 73,? Chuck K4QS?

>
>?

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K1 with Issues

Chuck,

Glad to hear of your success. Enjoy that K1.

73,
Don W3FPR

[hidden email] wrote:

> Hi Don,
>
> You nailed it!? Lesson learned on my part.?
>
> There was a difference in voltages between pins 4 and 5 of RP5 and pin 5 of U1.? I cleaned up around RP5, R19 and R20 and reflowed the solder connections with no real change in symptoms.? I lifted the key jack from the board.? Although I could see nothing with my eyes on the board, when I swabbed the area with a Q tip and Isopropyl the Q tip turned bright red.
>
> The loss of transmit I noted turn out to be a loss of both transmit and receive.? I was on the dummy load so didn't notice how quiet the receiver was until I switched to an antenna.? Apparently a relay got hung up in all the electronic commotion.? I cycled the band switch and everything popped back to life when I came back to band 1.
>
> I disassembled the rig and gave each board a good cleaning and didn't find anymore red stuff.
>
> It's all back together now and working fine.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Chuck K4QS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Sent: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 9:38 am
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K1 with Issues
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Chuck,?
> ?
>
> Flux cleaners are *not* recommended for that very reason. The flux
> residue by itself is non-conductive, but when combined with a cleaner,
> it can create high resistance (leakage) paths unless it is completely
> removed. Flushing an area with cleaner is almost certain to cause
> trouble, and can result in 'mysterious behaviors' that are hard to track
> down and expensive repairs.?
> ?
>
> If a builder finds a need to remove the flux, it is best done using a
> cotton swab (Q-Tip) and denatured alcohol or rubbing alcohol working
> only in small areas at a time.?
> ?
>
> 73,?
>
> Don W3FPR?
> ?
>
> [hidden email] wrote:?
>
>
>> Hi Don,?
>>
>
>
>> ?
>>
>
>
>> Your comment about using flux cleaner struck a nerve with me.? I didn't have any cleaner at the time of completion and obtained some a while back.? I don't remember exactly when.? I had an idle mind and hands one day and opened up the K1 to spiff things up.? I let it dry for a week and put it back together and it worked fine.?
>>
>
>
>> ?
>>
>
>
>> The keying misbehaved a little during the previous use of the K1.? I cleaned the paddle contacts and reseated the plug and all seemed well.? Problem solved, or so I thought.? These two events probably relate.?
>>
>
>
>> ?
>>
>
>
>> At first opportunity I will make the voltage checks and take a look under the key jack. I'll post the results.? Right now I'm off to install an antenna on my Volunteer Fire Departments new utility truck.?
>>
>
>
>> ?
>>
>
>
>> Thanks.?
>>
>
>
>> ?
>>
>
>
>> 73,? Chuck K4QS?
>>
>
>
>>
>> ?
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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