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K102 AUX I/O Module toroid question

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ka5oai

K102 AUX I/O Module toroid question

On my K102 AUX I/O Module,
I'm at the step that says:
"wind 12 turns of #26 red enamel wire (7", 18 cm) on the FT23-43 toroid core (L5)"

1st question) is the 3/16 diameter dark gray ring really the toroid?
I've always seen toroids with a color band on them, this one has none.

also I was at about turn #6 when I skinned the wire while snugging it on the core
so I will have to start again with another piece of wire,
it seems I had only used about 2.5 inches of wire by turn 6's completion....

so again I'm now wondering if what I thought was the toroid,
is not really the correct item
no, I don't see any other round thingies in there,
and yes I counted it as the toroid when I did the parts inventory.

also any tips on how to not skin the wire while winding?

I have wound many toroids b4,
but they all had a glazed looking surface
and didn't have the rather sharp edges that this core seems to have.

it's way to small to try to sand the edges <-- my first thought

I'll stop babbling now and wait for ya'lls replies.

--
GB & 73
KA5OAI
Sam Morgan
http://linuxbasics.org
Linux, the lifetime learning experience.
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73 & GB
KA5OAI
Sam Morgan

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K102 AUX I/O Module toroid question

The "23" in the core designation is the outside diameter, so yes, you
have the correct core.
The Ferrite cores have no color markings, they are a dull gray. It is
the powdered iron cores that are marked with colors.

As for tips on winding without scraping the wire enamel - *push* the
wire through the core center instead of trying to pull it through. Yes,
you will have to pull to snug up the last inch or so.
In addition, to make a neat toroid winding, on each turn, form the wire
around the *outside* of the core with a free finger or thumb before
pulling it tight.

The wire lengths given in the Elecraft manuals are usually generous,
which assures adequate lead length no matter how sloppy the toroid
winding may be.

The ferrite cores sometimes have sharp corners. You can round off
those corner edges carefully with a file or sandpaper if they are
exceptionally sharp.

73,
Don W3FPR

Sam M wrote:

> On my K102 AUX I/O Module,
> I'm at the step that says:
> "wind 12 turns of #26 red enamel wire (7", 18 cm) on the FT23-43
> toroid core (L5)"
>
> 1st question) is the 3/16 diameter dark gray ring really the toroid?
> I've always seen toroids with a color band on them, this one has none.
>
> also I was at about turn #6 when I skinned the wire while snugging it
> on the core
> so I will have to start again with another piece of wire,
> it seems I had only used about 2.5 inches of wire by turn 6's
> completion....
>
> so again I'm now wondering if what I thought was the toroid,
> is not really the correct item
> no, I don't see any other round thingies in there,
> and yes I counted it as the toroid when I did the parts inventory.
>
> also any tips on how to not skin the wire while winding?
>
> I have wound many toroids b4,
> but they all had a glazed looking surface
> and didn't have the rather sharp edges that this core seems to have.
>
> it's way to small to try to sand the edges <-- my first thought
>
> I'll stop babbling now and wait for ya'lls replies.
>

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Brian Murrey

Re: K102 AUX I/O Module toroid question

Don,

Just for info...could you use insulated 24g cross connect wire for this
roid, thus making it easier to wind with no skinned spots on the insulation?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
To: "Sam M" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K102 AUX I/O Module toroid question

> The "23" in the core designation is the outside diameter, so yes, you have
> the correct core.
> The Ferrite cores have no color markings, they are a dull gray. It is the
> powdered iron cores that are marked with colors.
>
> As for tips on winding without scraping the wire enamel - *push* the wire
> through the core center instead of trying to pull it through. Yes, you
> will have to pull to snug up the last inch or so.
> In addition, to make a neat toroid winding, on each turn, form the wire
> around the *outside* of the core with a free finger or thumb before
> pulling it tight.
>
> The wire lengths given in the Elecraft manuals are usually generous, which
> assures adequate lead length no matter how sloppy the toroid winding may
> be.
>
> The ferrite cores sometimes have sharp corners. You can round off those
> corner edges carefully with a file or sandpaper if they are exceptionally
> sharp.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> Sam M wrote:
>> On my K102 AUX I/O Module,
>> I'm at the step that says:
>> "wind 12 turns of #26 red enamel wire (7", 18 cm) on the FT23-43 toroid
>> core (L5)"
>>
>> 1st question) is the 3/16 diameter dark gray ring really the toroid?
>> I've always seen toroids with a color band on them, this one has none.
>>
>> also I was at about turn #6 when I skinned the wire while snugging it on
>> the core
>> so I will have to start again with another piece of wire,
>> it seems I had only used about 2.5 inches of wire by turn 6's
>> completion....
>>
>> so again I'm now wondering if what I thought was the toroid,
>> is not really the correct item
>> no, I don't see any other round thingies in there,
>> and yes I counted it as the toroid when I did the parts inventory.
>>
>> also any tips on how to not skin the wire while winding?
>>
>> I have wound many toroids b4,
>> but they all had a glazed looking surface
>> and didn't have the rather sharp edges that this core seems to have.
>>
>> it's way to small to try to sand the edges <-- my first thought
>>
>> I'll stop babbling now and wait for ya'lls replies.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K102 AUX I/O Module toroid question

Can you get the required number of turns (on the same core) with that wire?
Wire size is usually not important other than the physical requirement
that the turns fit onto a single layer winding (overlapping wires
increases the inter-turn capacitance).
The most important factor for a toroid inductor is the number of turns
for any given core size and permeability.

BTW - it is much easier if you start the winding in the center of the
wire (that is 1 turn) - wind half the number of turns with one end of
the wire, flip it over and wind the remainder with the remaining wire end.

73,
Don W3FPR

KB9BVN wrote:

> Don,
>
> Just for info...could you use insulated 24g cross connect wire for
> this roid, thus making it easier to wind with no skinned spots on the
> insulation?
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Sam M" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K102 AUX I/O Module toroid question
>
>
>> The "23" in the core designation is the outside diameter, so yes, you
>> have the correct core.
>> The Ferrite cores have no color markings, they are a dull gray. It
>> is the powdered iron cores that are marked with colors.
>>
>> As for tips on winding without scraping the wire enamel - *push* the
>> wire through the core center instead of trying to pull it through.
>> Yes, you will have to pull to snug up the last inch or so.
>> In addition, to make a neat toroid winding, on each turn, form the
>> wire around the *outside* of the core with a free finger or thumb
>> before pulling it tight.
>>
>> The wire lengths given in the Elecraft manuals are usually generous,
>> which assures adequate lead length no matter how sloppy the toroid
>> winding may be.
>>
>> The ferrite cores sometimes have sharp corners. You can round off
>> those corner edges carefully with a file or sandpaper if they are
>> exceptionally sharp.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>

ka5oai

Re: K102 AUX I/O Module toroid question

K102 is installed and working FB,
I tried again with the small red wire, but this time remembered to not pull the
wire through, also did the start in the middle style of winding. I know I nicked
one spot but it was in the clear and appeared not to be in contact with any
other turns so I let it go. Since it powers up ok and HRD controls the K2 as
needed, I guess I got away with it.

Thanks to all for the suggestions. Once again the Elecraft community supplied
the needed tips for the clueless, hi hi.

--
GB & 73
KA5OAI
Sam Morgan
http://linuxbasics.org
Linux, the lifetime learning experience.

replies below:

> Can you get the required number of turns (on the same core) with that wire?
> Wire size is usually not important other than the physical requirement
> that the turns fit onto a single layer winding (overlapping wires
> increases the inter-turn capacitance).
> The most important factor for a toroid inductor is the number of turns
> for any given core size and permeability.
>
> BTW - it is much easier if you start the winding in the center of the
> wire (that is 1 turn) - wind half the number of turns with one end of
> the wire, flip it over and wind the remainder with the remaining wire end.
>

snip
>> Just for info...could you use insulated 24g cross connect wire for
>> this roid, thus making it easier to wind with no skinned spots on the
>> insulation?
snip

>>> The "23" in the core designation is the outside diameter, so yes, you
>>> have the correct core.
>>> The Ferrite cores have no color markings, they are a dull gray. It
>>> is the powdered iron cores that are marked with colors.
>>>
>>> As for tips on winding without scraping the wire enamel - *push* the
>>> wire through the core center instead of trying to pull it through.
>>> Yes, you will have to pull to snug up the last inch or so.
>>> In addition, to make a neat toroid winding, on each turn, form the
>>> wire around the *outside* of the core with a free finger or thumb
>>> before pulling it tight.
>>>
>>> The wire lengths given in the Elecraft manuals are usually generous,
>>> which assures adequate lead length no matter how sloppy the toroid
>>> winding may be.
>>>
>>> The ferrite cores sometimes have sharp corners. You can round off
>>> those corner edges carefully with a file or sandpaper if they are
>>> exceptionally sharp.
>>>

73 & GB
KA5OAI
Sam Morgan