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K1ZTE - KAT500

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K1ZTE - KAT500

I own a KAT500 and KPA500 that I use with an IC 7300. When in CW mode, the KAT500 can be activated by keying the IC 7300, no problem. This allows the KAT500 to find a match with low power while the KPA500 is in standby mode. In SSB mode, there is still the need to activate the KAT500 for the match, however, neither keying the mike nor speaking into the mike activates the KAT500. A press of the transmit button in the IC 7300 also did not activate the KAT500. I find that I have to first switch to CW mode for the activation before switching to SSB so that the KAT500 is all set for KPA500 operation. Is what I am doing the only way to do this? I have read related posts on this subject but they did not satisfactorily answer my question.
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Dick Dievendorff-4

Re: K1ZTE - KAT500

Page 13 of the KAT500 owners manual describes an AH-4 connection between Icom radios and the KAT500.

Does this work for you?

73 de Dick, K6KR

> On Sep 12, 2020, at 14:06, Russell Domareck via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I own a KAT500 and KPA500 that I use with an IC 7300. When in CW mode, the KAT500 can be activated by keying the IC 7300, no problem. This allows the KAT500 to find a match with low power while the KPA500 is in standby mode. In SSB mode, there is still the need to activate the KAT500 for the match, however, neither keying the mike nor speaking into the mike activates the KAT500. A press of the transmit button in the IC 7300 also did not activate the KAT500. I find that I have to first switch to CW mode for the activation before switching to SSB so that the KAT500 is all set for KPA500 operation. Is what I am doing the only way to do this? I have read related posts on this subject but they did not satisfactorily answer my question.
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Don Wilhelm

Re: K1ZTE - KAT500

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

It takes 20+ watts to tune the KAT500.
I have no idea of how to set up the IC7300 to do that when in SSB mode.
You will have to ask on the Icom forums.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/12/2020 5:04 PM, Russell Domareck via Elecraft wrote:
> I own a KAT500 and KPA500 that I use with an IC 7300. When in CW mode, the KAT500 can be activated by keying the IC 7300, no problem. This allows the KAT500 to find a match with low power while the KPA500 is in standby mode. In SSB mode, there is still the need to activate the KAT500 for the match, however, neither keying the mike nor speaking into the mike activates the KAT500. A press of the transmit button in the IC 7300 also did not activate the KAT500. I find that I have to first switch to CW mode for the activation before switching to SSB so that the KAT500 is all set for KPA500 operation. Is what I am doing the only way to do this? I have read related posts on this subject but they did not satisfactorily answer my question.
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: K1ZTE - KAT500

In reply to this post by Dick Dievendorff-4

Russell,

I have the same experience with my 7300 exactly, needing to shift to CW mode to match the KAT500. It’s at the point where it’s just what I do.

Dick,

I have the cable for connecting the 7300 to an external tuner, such as the AH-4, and I found that it did work fine for initiating a tune. But what I want is to use the stored settings in the KAT500 rather than initiate a tune each time, so I have KAT500 in “MAN” setting. The CW key transmission is what I need to use to activate the right pre-loaded setting for the frequency in the KAT500.

I did find that the 12 volt connector part of the I-think-it-was LDG cable was so sloppy that it would not stay in the KAT500. So I just don’t use it at all.

73
Hoop
K9QJS

On Sep 12, 2020, at 2:18 PM, Dick Dievendorff <[hidden email]> wrote:

Page 13 of the KAT500 owners manual describes an AH-4 connection between Icom radios and the KAT500.

Does this work for you?

73 de Dick, K6KR

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w4sc-2

Re: K1ZTE - KAT500

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

There may be a clue here

https://kg3v.com/2019/03/03/cant-use-tune-button-on-ic-7300-with-kat-500-tuner/

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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KENT TRIMBLE

Re: K1ZTE - KAT500

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

With nearly all modern transceivers nowadays, the trick is to set the
power on AM to 25 watts (which is the most you should ever run a 100
watt transceiver on AM), and use AM to tune your KAT500. This puts a
carrier into the tuner at an acceptable low power.

You can tune it in CW mode, but that requires turning the transceiver's
power output down, and then turning it back up. By using AM the power
is already set at 25 and doesn't need further adjusting. Some ops like
to tune in FM mode, but I prefer AM.

When the KAT500 has finished its routine, switch back to SSB at 100
watts (or whatever you want).

73,

Kent K9ZTV

On 9/12/2020 4:04 PM, Russell Domareck via Elecraft wrote:

> Is what I am doing the only way to do this? I have read related posts on this subject but they did not satisfactorily answer my question.
> ______________________________________________________________
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Alan - G4GNX

Re: K1ZTE - KAT500

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Although it's preferable to have at least 20W to tune, the good book
says that anything between 7 and 100 watts is OK. I guess you're
providing that in CW mode. Have you 'trained' the KAT500 for the entire
band/s you want to use? If you do that in Auto mode, then switch to
Manual mode, the KAT500 should see RF from the IC-7300 and switch to the
'trained' and matched frequency, but you will have to speak into the mic
to produce some RF. Pressing the PTT or Transmit button won't do that,
unless you have a really high background noise which the mic picks up.
Are you sure that the IC-7300 internal tuner is switched out? I haven't
messed with our club's IC-7300 for some time (pandemic issues) but I
previously found that the internal tuner was not very good and would not
match anything over 2:1 and even with it switched out the rig would
drastically cut its power back if it thought the SWR was high. It may be
a chicken and egg situation where the KAT500 has not yet matched, so the
IC-7300 sees that mismatch and won't produce enough power to make the
KAT500 activate.

You would probably find it would work as you wish if you setup an AH-4
cable between the rig and tuner. Page 15 of the KAT500 shows how to do
this.

73,

Alan. G4GNX

------ Original Message ------
From: "Russell Domareck via Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 12/09/2020 22:04:29
Subject: [Elecraft] K1ZTE - KAT500

>I own a KAT500 and KPA500 that I use with an IC 7300. When in CW mode, the KAT500 can be activated by keying the IC 7300, no problem. This allows the KAT500 to find a match with low power while the KPA500 is in standby mode. In SSB mode, there is still the need to activate the KAT500 for the match, however, neither keying the mike nor speaking into the mike activates the KAT500. A press of the transmit button in the IC 7300 also did not activate the KAT500. I find that I have to first switch to CW mode for the activation before switching to SSB so that the KAT500 is all set for KPA500 operation. Is what I am doing the only way to do this? I have read related posts on this subject but they did not satisfactorily answer my question.
>

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Ted Edwards W3TB

Re: K1ZTE - KAT500

In reply to this post by KENT TRIMBLE

Related question: Should the KAT-500 hold memorized settings after
shutting down to ready for use another time?

On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 17:11 KENT TRIMBLE <[hidden email]> wrote:

> With nearly all modern transceivers nowadays, the trick is to set the
>
> power on AM to 25 watts (which is the most you should ever run a 100
>
> watt transceiver on AM), and use AM to tune your KAT500. This puts a
>
> carrier into the tuner at an acceptable low power.
>
>
>
> You can tune it in CW mode, but that requires turning the transceiver's
>
> power output down, and then turning it back up. By using AM the power
>
> is already set at 25 and doesn't need further adjusting. Some ops like
>
> to tune in FM mode, but I prefer AM.
>
>
>
> When the KAT500 has finished its routine, switch back to SSB at 100
>
> watts (or whatever you want).
>
>
>
> 73,
>
>
>
> Kent K9ZTV
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 9/12/2020 4:04 PM, Russell Domareck via Elecraft wrote:
>
> > Is what I am doing the only way to do this? I have read related posts
> on this subject but they did not satisfactorily answer my question.
>
> > ______________________________________________________________
>
> > Elecraft mailing list
>
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> >
>
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> >
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
>
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>
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--
73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW

and thinking about operating CW:
"Do today what others won't,
so you can do tomorrow what others can't."
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Alan - G4GNX

Re: K1ZTE - KAT500

Yes. You would normally 'train' the KAT500 in segments over each band
for each antenna. This is done in Auto mode. The recommended segments
are listed in the back of the KAT500 manual. Each match setting is
stored in its own memory.
You would then leave the KAT500 in Manual mode and each time you
transmit, it should detect the band/frequency and switch to the
appropriate memory.

Memory settings are retained after power down.

73,

Alan. G4GNX

------ Original Message ------
From: "Ted Edwards W3TB" <[hidden email]>
To: "KENT TRIMBLE" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 12/09/2020 23:22:48
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K1ZTE - KAT500

>Related question: Should the KAT-500 hold memorized settings after
>shutting down to ready for use another time?
>
>

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Alan - G4GNX

Re: K1ZTE - KAT500

In reply to this post by w4sc-2

From what the OP wrote, I don't think he's using the Tune button to
activate the KAT500.

A 3rd party sells a cable that plugs into the AH-4 socket on the back of
the IC-7300, which allows you to make the IC-7300 enter Tune mode, by
pressing the simple button on the end of the cable. It would of course
be possible to make your own.

73,

Alan. G4GNX

------ Original Message ------
From: "w4sc" <[hidden email]>
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 12/09/2020 23:06:37
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K1ZTE - KAT500

>There may be a clue here
>
>https://kg3v.com/2019/03/03/cant-use-tune-button-on-ic-7300-with-kat-500-tuner/
>
>
>
>

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KENT TRIMBLE

Re: K1ZTE - KAT500

In reply to this post by Alan - G4GNX

Alan is right, but it depends on which "good book" one is consulting!

We have to be careful about transceiver power levels when tuning an
external AMU, for the sake of the /transceiver /as well as the AMU.

Your AMU may be able to tolerate 100 watts during the tuning process,
but your transceiver may not. Unless the transceiver automatically
folds back its output in the presence of high SWR levels, one risks
damaging the transceiver's PA transistors. While many modern rigs do
so, others, especially older rigs often used by new licensees, do not.

For example, when seeing an SWR above 3:1, my FT-991A reduces its CW
output from 100 to 10 watts while at the same time flashing "HIGH SWR"
in red letters. The rig may be successfully protecting itself, but why
risk stressing components if it's not necessary? That's why I prefer
switching the transceiver to AM at 25 watts when tuning an external AMU.

73,

Kent K9ZTV

On 9/12/2020 5:16 PM, Alan - G4GNX wrote:
> Although it's preferable to have at least 20W to tune, the good book
> says that anything between 7 and 100 watts is OK.

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Alan - G4GNX

Re: K1ZTE - KAT500

I was quoting from the KAT500 owners manual and only the min and max
power that the KAT500 will tolerate.

As I just posted, there's a cable made which allows you to use the
external tuner function of the IC-7300, forcing it to output low power
for tuning, but without connecting the IC-7300 to the tuner, except for
the RF connection. That way you know that the IC-7300 is only outputting
its intended tuning power and will protect itself.

73,

Alan. G4GNX

------ Original Message ------
From: "KENT TRIMBLE" <[hidden email]>
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 13/09/2020 00:03:34
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K1ZTE - KAT500

>Alan is right, but it depends on which "good book" one is consulting!
>
>We have to be careful about transceiver power levels when tuning an external AMU, for the sake of the /transceiver /as well as the AMU.
>
>Your AMU may be able to tolerate 100 watts during the tuning process, but your transceiver may not. Unless the transceiver automatically folds back its output in the presence of high SWR levels, one risks damaging the transceiver's PA transistors. While many modern rigs do so, others, especially older rigs often used by new licensees, do not.
>
>For example, when seeing an SWR above 3:1, my FT-991A reduces its CW output from 100 to 10 watts while at the same time flashing "HIGH SWR" in red letters. The rig may be successfully protecting itself, but why risk stressing components if it's not necessary? That's why I prefer switching the transceiver to AM at 25 watts when tuning an external AMU.
>
>73,
>
>Kent K9ZTV
>
>
>
>On 9/12/2020 5:16 PM, Alan - G4GNX wrote:
>>Although it's preferable to have at least 20W to tune, the good book says that anything between 7 and 100 watts is OK.
>
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KENT TRIMBLE

Re: K1ZTE - KAT500

In reply to this post by KENT TRIMBLE

A further consideration has to do with what kind of AMU you are using,
whether electronic or mechanical (for want of a better description).

Once a match is memorized, electronic AMUs set their solutions nearly
instantly. High SWR levels exist only for milliseconds (if that).

But mechanical AMUs (whether automatic or manual) require TIME in order
for the capacitor(s) and inductor to find their proper matching
positions. Even when a match has been previously memorized, it may take
several seconds for the inductor wheel to traverse the roller coil and
the capacitor(s) to rotate.

That's why one needs to pay attention to the SWR levels impacting both
the AMU and the transceiver.

73,

Kent K9ZTV

On 9/12/2020 6:03 PM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote:

> Alan is right, but it depends on which "good book" one is consulting!
>
> We have to be careful about transceiver power levels when tuning an
> external AMU, for the sake of the /transceiver /as well as the AMU.
>
> Your AMU may be able to tolerate 100 watts during the tuning process,
> but your transceiver may not. Unless the transceiver automatically
> folds back its output in the presence of high SWR levels, one risks
> damaging the transceiver's PA transistors. While many modern rigs do
> so, others, especially older rigs often used by new licensees, do not.
>
> For example, when seeing an SWR above 3:1, my FT-991A reduces its CW
> output from 100 to 10 watts while at the same time flashing "HIGH SWR"
> in red letters. The rig may be successfully protecting itself, but
> why risk stressing components if it's not necessary? That's why I
> prefer switching the transceiver to AM at 25 watts when tuning an
> external AMU.
>
> 73,
>
> Kent K9ZTV
>
>
>
> On 9/12/2020 5:16 PM, Alan - G4GNX wrote:
>> Although it's preferable to have at least 20W to tune, the good book
>> says that anything between 7 and 100 watts is OK.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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w4sc-2

Re: K1ZTE - KAT500

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

I have the KAT/KPA500 setup with the K3. It works great when trained, tracking VFO. I had only one antenna available per band at the time using the setup. Currently the “shack” is undergoing a move and renovation.

I will be back on with possibly as many as 3 antennas available on a single band. I have looked for answer to the following question.

Is the training saved per-BAND/ANTENNA combination tuning solution?.. possibly resulting in 3 solutions per band. If there is only one solution there are implications in switching to a different antenna in a band with multiple antenna choices. In my case the future may hold a vertical, beam, and horizontal loop on 40M.

Ben W4SC

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Alan - G4GNX

Re: K1ZTE - KAT500

The KAT500 retains matched memories for each band/frequency per antenna.
So yes, you have 3 solutions per band/frequency. It has quite a lot of
memories. :-D

73,

Alan. G4GNX

------ Original Message ------
From: "w4sc" <[hidden email]>
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 13/09/2020 00:38:08
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K1ZTE - KAT500

>I have the KAT/KPA500 setup with the K3. It works great when trained, tracking VFO. I had only one antenna available per band at the time using the setup. Currently the “shack” is undergoing a move and renovation.
>
>I will be back on with possibly as many as 3 antennas available on a single band. I have looked for answer to the following question.
>
>Is the training saved per-BAND/ANTENNA combination tuning solution?.. possibly resulting in 3 solutions per band. If there is only one solution there are implications in switching to a different antenna in a band with multiple antenna choices. In my case the future may hold a vertical, beam, and horizontal loop on 40M.
>
>Ben W4SC
>
>

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Nr4c

Re: K1ZTE - KAT500

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

You need RF to cause the amp&ATU to know what band and freq you are using. Keying then mic on SSB won’t generate RF until you speak. CW, AM, FM or RTTY will generate RF when keying the mic (or tap the paddles in CW) and will generate the RF to tickle the Amp and ATU.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Sep 12, 2020, at 5:06 PM, Russell Domareck via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I own a KAT500 and KPA500 that I use with an IC 7300. When in CW mode, the KAT500 can be activated by keying the IC 7300, no problem. This allows the KAT500 to find a match with low power while the KPA500 is in standby mode. In SSB mode, there is still the need to activate the KAT500 for the match, however, neither keying the mike nor speaking into the mike activates the KAT500. A press of the transmit button in the IC 7300 also did not activate the KAT500. I find that I have to first switch to CW mode for the activation before switching to SSB so that the KAT500 is all set for KPA500 operation. Is what I am doing the only way to do this? I have read related posts on this subject but they did not satisfactorily answer my question.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Nr4c

Re: K1ZTE - KAT500

In reply to this post by Dick Dievendorff-4

Yes but my experience with this always causes a “tune” cycle. I have already taught my KAT500 my antennas so only need it to locate nearest saved solution.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Sep 12, 2020, at 5:21 PM, Dick Dievendorff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Page 13 of the KAT500 owners manual describes an AH-4 connection between Icom radios and the KAT500.
>
> Does this work for you?
>
> 73 de Dick, K6KR
>
>
>
>> On Sep 12, 2020, at 14:06, Russell Domareck via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I own a KAT500 and KPA500 that I use with an IC 7300. When in CW mode, the KAT500 can be activated by keying the IC 7300, no problem. This allows the KAT500 to find a match with low power while the KPA500 is in standby mode. In SSB mode, there is still the need to activate the KAT500 for the match, however, neither keying the mike nor speaking into the mike activates the KAT500. A press of the transmit button in the IC 7300 also did not activate the KAT500. I find that I have to first switch to CW mode for the activation before switching to SSB so that the KAT500 is all set for KPA500 operation. Is what I am doing the only way to do this? I have read related posts on this subject but they did not satisfactorily answer my question.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>>
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Ted Edwards W3TB

Re: K1ZTE - KAT500

In reply to this post by Alan - G4GNX

This is all very helpful.
I have apparently been doing things wrong by bringing the Auto button to
flash When setting frequencies and leaving the Auto button on to
‘automatically’ get me back to the settings later on.

On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 18:44 Alan - G4GNX <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The KAT500 retains matched memories for each band/frequency per antenna.
>
> So yes, you have 3 solutions per band/frequency. It has quite a lot of
>
> memories. :-D
>
>
>
> 73,
>
>
>
> Alan. G4GNX
>
>
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
>
> From: "w4sc" <[hidden email]>
>
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>
> Sent: 13/09/2020 00:38:08
>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K1ZTE - KAT500
>
>
>
> >I have the KAT/KPA500 setup with the K3. It works great when trained,
> tracking VFO. I had only one antenna available per band at the time using
> the setup. Currently the “shack” is undergoing a move and renovation.
>
> >
>
> >I will be back on with possibly as many as 3 antennas available on a
> single band. I have looked for answer to the following question.
>
> >
>
> >Is the training saved per-BAND/ANTENNA combination tuning solution?..
> possibly resulting in 3 solutions per band. If there is only one solution
> there are implications in switching to a different antenna in a band with
> multiple antenna choices. In my case the future may hold a vertical,
> beam, and horizontal loop on 40M.
>
> >
>
> >Ben W4SC
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
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Nr4c

Re: K1ZTE - KAT500

In reply to this post by Ted Edwards W3TB

Yes. Once stored they are there until replaced or cleared

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Sep 12, 2020, at 6:25 PM, Ted Edwards W3TB <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Related question: Should the KAT-500 hold memorized settings after
> shutting down to ready for use another time?
>
>> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 17:11 KENT TRIMBLE <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> With nearly all modern transceivers nowadays, the trick is to set the
>>
>> power on AM to 25 watts (which is the most you should ever run a 100
>>
>> watt transceiver on AM), and use AM to tune your KAT500. This puts a
>>
>> carrier into the tuner at an acceptable low power.
>>
>>
>>
>> You can tune it in CW mode, but that requires turning the transceiver's
>>
>> power output down, and then turning it back up. By using AM the power
>>
>> is already set at 25 and doesn't need further adjusting. Some ops like
>>
>> to tune in FM mode, but I prefer AM.
>>
>>
>>
>> When the KAT500 has finished its routine, switch back to SSB at 100
>>
>> watts (or whatever you want).
>>
>>
>>
>> 73,
>>
>>
>>
>> Kent K9ZTV
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 9/12/2020 4:04 PM, Russell Domareck via Elecraft wrote:
>>>
>>> Is what I am doing the only way to do this? I have read related posts
>> on this subject but they did not satisfactorily answer my question.
>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
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>
> --
> 73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW
>
> and thinking about operating CW:
> "Do today what others won't,
> so you can do tomorrow what others can't."
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ANDY DURBIN

K1ZTE - KAT500

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

"Is the training saved per-BAND/ANTENNA combination tuning solution?.. possibly resulting in 3 solutions per band."

Tuning solutions are saved for each "bin" and there are many "bins" in each band. Each bin stores up to 6 tuning solutions and each solution includes the antenna selection.

You can inspect the tuning solutions for each bin with command DMf; where f is frequency in kHz.

e.g.
DM14200;

returns:
DM BN05;BIN 59;FR 14181-14200;ADDR 35020;
AN1;BYPN;SIDET;C00;L05;VSWRB 1.42;
AN1;BYPN;SIDEA;C00;L04;VSWRB 1.42;
AN1;BYPB;VSWRB 1.00;
AN1;BYPN;SIDET;C03;L07;VSWRB 1.00;
AN1;BYPN;SIDEA;C00;L06;VSWRB 1.00;
UNUSED

Andy, k3wyc
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