K2 Control Cable Question
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What about the 5B4AGN filters, these are gooooood!!!!
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Brown Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 4:28 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: ICE still functioning? On 4/28/2011 7:44 AM, dave wrote: > It appears that I.C.E. may indeed be kaput. There are three designs of bandpass filters for the ham bands. ICE, Dunestar, and W3NQN filters (the NQN filters are sold by Array Solutions). All are designed for use between the transceiver and either a power amp or matched antenna. Last week, there was a thread on the NCCC reflector about bandpass filters.There was general agreement that while ICE filters "work," they are rather prone to fail at their rated 100W power levels, and everyone who said they owned them reported failures. I've had two such failures in the two years that I've owned two of them. Quality control is also poor -- of four single-band filters and two 419's that I bought, all arrived out of alignment. They were repaired at no cost, but I had to pay shipping to Indianapolis, and was without them while they were being repaired. My assessment is that they will fail if run at 100 watts, but they are less likely to fail at the 30-50W levels required to drive a power amp. A west coast company, Dunestar, has been making bandpass filters for at least a decade, and several NCCC members have owned and used them for a while. All reports on Dunestar filters have been positive, and there were no reports of failures. http://www.dunestar.com/filters.htm Array Solutions sells bandpass filters designed by W3NQN, and described in a QST article quite a few years ago. It isn't clear who builds them, but I'd guess it's Array Solutions. They also sell switching systems for these filters. In terms of filtering performance, the W3NQN filters are quite superior, followed by Dunestar and then ICE. My two ICE 419s will be for sale as soon as I can replace them. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
My experience has been just the opposite of Jim's. I have seven each of the
419's purchased at various times. All have been used extensively in a contesting environment of multi-multi, both modes simultaneously. No failures. Absolute perfect performance. No complaints. YMMV. Mis dos centavos, de Milt, N5IA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Jim Brown Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 8:28 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: ICE still functioning? There was general agreement that while ICE filters "work," they are rather prone to fail at their rated 100W power levels, and everyone who said they owned them reported failures. I've had two such failures in the two years that I've owned two of them. Quality control is also poor -- of four single-band filters and two 419's that I bought, all arrived out of alignment. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by WA2SI
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Re: OT: ICE still functioning?
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In reply to this post by Rick Stealey
Hi rick,
Your statement is incorrect. We specifically welcome limited OT postings as long as they are related to Ham Radio and do not generate excessive traffic. Please read the list guidelines, which I will re-post next. 73, Eric WA6HHQ list moderator ==== On 4/28/2011 4:59 AM, Rick Stealey wrote: > With all due respect guys........... > If it is OT it BY DEFINITION doesn't belong on this reflector, > no matter how interesting, no matter that everyone in the ham > world is interested in the fascinating topic. No matter that > the participants on this reflector are some of the most > knowledgeable people on earth (which they are), and also > the nicest. If it isn't Elecraft related it doesn't belong here. > Eric has to come on here periodically and remind us all. > CME, ICE are not Elecraft topics. > > There, I feel better now. > > Rick K2XT > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: OT: ICE still functioning? [Thread ENDed]
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In reply to this post by ac0h
folks - Let's now end this thread.
73, Eric list moderator On 4/28/2011 6:52 AM, R. Kevin Stover wrote: > Have any of you ICE customers emailed ICE to inquire? > > Why would you think anybody on an Elecraft mailing list would have an > authoritative answer as to whether ICE is still in business, or whether > they received/processed your order or not? > > One last time. http://www.iceradioproducts.com/ > Read the announcement and if you have questions follow the instructions > at the bottom of the page. > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Dave-7
For K3 diversity, I got one of their receive antenna limiters, since I can't get the beverage too far from the end of the transmit antenna. Also got their high power lightning protector, mostly for the DC bleed off for a vertical (not sure who does them, but saw some 1KW versions come on the market which I would be afraid to put the amp to). I had another item "back ordered" which I never received, and had a followup email unanswered.
73, W3OU Steve -----Original Message----- From: dave <[hidden email]> To: Milt -- N5IA <[hidden email]> Cc: [hidden email] Sent: Thu, Apr 28, 2011 10:44 am Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: ICE still functioning? t appears that I.C.E. may indeed be kaput. This morning the 800 umber no longer works. Yesterday it rang but no answer, today you get he recording that the number is 'temporarily unavailable'. Dunno how ong 'temporary' might be. Looks like there might be an opening here for Elecraft to start roducing bandpass filter kits . . . 3 de dave b9ca/4 On 4/28/11 8:31 AM, Milt -- N5IA wrote: I placed my order for two new multi-band filters two months ago and have heard nothing. de Milt, N5IA -----Original Message----- From: Dan& Jean Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:04 AM To: Bert Craig Cc: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: ICE still functioning? I too am very interested. I was just about to place an order when we got the bad news. I hope that the business is restored to operation at some point. 73, Dan - W4TQ ......................................................... ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html _____________________________________________________________ lecraft mailing list ome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft elp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm ost: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net lease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: OT: ICE still functioning?
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In reply to this post by AC7AC
In the interest of reducing interference from/to our K2/sK3s and
the equipment of our friends at multi-transmitter events, I'd like to see the topic taken one step further: a short explanation of why the need for band pass filters with Elecraft equipment exists in the first place. * Whose radio am I protecting, mine or the other guy's? * What am I protecting it from? * Why doesn't the radio take care of this problem itself? * What is transmitted phase noise and what do I do about it? * Where does the K3 stack up in the world of transmitted phase noise in amateur radio equipment? (I believe the answer is that the K3 is very quiet and that I am more apt to be to victim, rather than the source, of this problem] * Other relevant stuff I don't know about Can anyone point to a source of basic operational application of band pass filters explained at this level and with the emphasis removed about the insides of the filters themselves? 73, Gary, VE1RGB -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron D'Eau Claire Sent: April 28, 2011 12:40 PM To: [hidden email]; 'Rick Stealey' Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: ICE still functioning? Rick, that has never been true in practice in the 10+ years I've participated in this reflector, nor can I find any mention of that in the official list guidelines at www.elecraft.com IMX, anything related to Ham radio that someone owning an Elecraft rig might be interested in is welcome for discussion here. 73, Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- With all due respect guys........... If it is OT it BY DEFINITION doesn't belong on this reflector, no matter how interesting, no matter that everyone in the ham world is interested in the fascinating topic. No matter that the participants on this reflector are some of the most knowledgeable people on earth (which they are), and also the nicest. If it isn't Elecraft related it doesn't belong here. Eric has to come on here periodically and remind us all. CME, ICE are not Elecraft topics. There, I feel better now. Rick K2XT ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: OT: ICE still functioning?
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
Jim,
Just to clear up the differences and who does what, Ed Wetherhold, W3NQN himself builds most of the individual W3NQN design bandpass filters that Array Solutions sells. Larry Gillespie, K7MI of "Hamation" also builds W3NQN design filters for Array Solutions and these are primarily used in the FilterMax units that contain 6 W3NQN design bandpass filters in a "plug-in" configuration. Typically, these six bands are 160, 80, 40, 20, 15 and 10m and are essentially a W3NQN high-performance version of an ICE419. >From time to time, and to augment W3NQN's somewhat limited manufacturing capability, K7MI will package his plug in filters as individual filters in individual boxes - just like the W3NQN-built units. Performance-wise, there is no difference between those that W3NQN and K7MI build - they're the same W3NQN design. They are clearly labeled and one would know which type one has, although again, there is no functional difference. The W3NQN design yields from 70 to 80 db or so of out of desired band attenuation whereas the ICE or Dunestars are both in the 30 to 35 db range. The reason for this is because the ICE and Dunestars are both the same basic design. In addition to bandpass filters, W3NQN also makes Broadcast Band Filters, AC line filters, and 2kW Low Pass filters for 160, 80, 40 and 20m. As far as ICE goes, we did receive a call from one of a team of individuals who were going to attempt to keep the company going a few days after the owner passed away, but we've heard nothing since. So, the only information available is that posted on their web page. 73, Bob W5OV Array Solutions > On 4/28/2011 7:44 AM, dave wrote: >> It appears that I.C.E. may indeed be kaput. > There are three designs of bandpass filters for the ham bands. ICE, > Dunestar, and W3NQN filters (the NQN filters are sold by Array > Solutions). All are designed for use between the transceiver and either > a power amp or matched antenna. > > Last week, there was a thread on the NCCC reflector about bandpass > filters.There was general agreement that while ICE filters "work," they > are rather prone to fail at their rated 100W power levels, and everyone > who said they owned them reported failures. I've had two such failures > in the two years that I've owned two of them. Quality control is also > poor -- of four single-band filters and two 419's that I bought, all > arrived out of alignment. They were repaired at no cost, but I had to > pay shipping to Indianapolis, and was without them while they were being > repaired. My assessment is that they will fail if run at 100 watts, but > they are less likely to fail at the 30-50W levels required to drive a > power amp. > > A west coast company, Dunestar, has been making bandpass filters for at > least a decade, and several NCCC members have owned and used them for a > while. All reports on Dunestar filters have been positive, and there > were no reports of failures. > > http://www.dunestar.com/filters.htm > > Array Solutions sells bandpass filters designed by W3NQN, and described > in a QST article quite a few years ago. It isn't clear who builds them, > but I'd guess it's Array Solutions. They also sell switching systems for > these filters. > > In terms of filtering performance, the W3NQN filters are quite superior, > followed by Dunestar and then ICE. > > My two ICE 419s will be for sale as soon as I can replace them. > > 73, Jim K9YC > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: OT: ICE still functioning? [Thread ENDed - the OT disc portion only]
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Administrator
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In reply to this post by Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ
Clarification - I'm ending the -OT topics allowed/disallowed- portion
of this thread. Its OK to discuss the filters further. :-) 73, Eric Elecraft List Moderator --- On 4/28/2011 9:20 AM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: > folks - Let's now end this thread. > 73, Eric > list moderator ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: OT: ICE still functioning?
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In reply to this post by Gary Bartlett VE1RGB
Apparently, with Eric's permission (TNX!) we can discuss the filters
themselves further. Gary - good questions. Briefly related to band pass filters: > * Whose radio am I protecting, mine or the other guy's? Both. It prevents other stuff from other bands from getting into your radio, and whatever your transmitter might be putting out on other bands it will essentially eliminate from being amplified by your linear amplifier. > * What am I protecting it from? Strong RF from other nearby transmitters on other bands. > * Why doesn't the radio take care of this problem itself? The radio is not built to have a 1500w transmitter nearby. You would easily add over $1,000 to the cost of the radio to have this much filtering on the front end. Remember the Hilberling PT8000 that was priced at $17,000? Now you know just part of the reason why it was so expensive. > * What is transmitted phase noise and what do I do about it? > * Where does the K3 stack up in the world of transmitted phase noise in amateur radio equipment? Someone else can answer these phase noise questions. 73, Bob W5OV ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Gary Bartlett VE1RGB
I am not the world's foremost authority, but I will give it a shot.
 * Whose radio am I protecting, mine or the other guy's? Your radio * What am I protecting it from? Humongous big signals like occur when a Multi-Multi contest station has a line up of six stations, all running 1.5 KW along with a $100K or more antenna farm, all transmitting at once and enough RF to make the hair on your arms tingle. Maybe even a Field Day Site where some are running other brand radios. If you were in this category, chances are you would already know the answer. * Why doesn't the radio take care of this problem itself? Mostly, it does not need to. Only those who really need it will want to pay the bucks and the weight and size penalties for the extra 80 or 90 dB of isolation. If you live next door to the Multi-Multi station above the best strategy is to unplug your radio and go join them for the contest. If you don't have the operating skills volunteer as a waiter or assistant something or other. They are probably nice guys and will welcome the help. If not they will welcome your cooperation. * What is transmitted phase noise and what do I do about it? Basically it is interference. I can't adequately explain it, but if you have a bought a K3 or a K2 you have done what you can. * Where does the K3 stack up in the world of transmitted phase noise in amateur radio equipment? (I believe the answer is that the K3 is very quiet and that I am more apt to be to victim, rather than the source, of this problem] I believe you are correct! * Other relevant stuff I don't know about Now there is a subject. Maybe Wayne and Eric can write a book someday when they finish designing and building good radios. I would write the book myself, but I am not even sure what is relevant, much less what you don't know about. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ ________________________________ From: gary bartlett <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Thu, April 28, 2011 11:23:52 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: ICE still functioning?       In the interest of reducing interference from/to our K2/sK3s and the equipment of our friends at multi-transmitter events, I'd like to see the topic taken one step further: a short explanation of why the need for band pass filters with Elecraft equipment exists in the first place. *    Whose radio am I protecting, mine or the other guy's? *    What am I protecting it from? *    Why doesn't the radio take care of this problem itself? *    What is transmitted phase noise and what do I do about it? *    Where does the K3 stack up in the world of transmitted phase noise in amateur radio equipment? (I believe the answer is that the K3 is very quiet and that I am more apt to be to victim, rather than the source, of this problem] *    Other relevant stuff I don't know about       Can anyone point to a source of basic operational application of band pass filters explained at this level and with the emphasis removed about the insides of the filters themselves?       73,       Gary, VE1RGB             -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron D'Eau Claire Sent: April 28, 2011 12:40 PM To: [hidden email]; 'Rick Stealey' Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: ICE still functioning? Rick, that has never been true in practice in the 10+ years I've participated in this reflector, nor can I find any mention of that in the official list guidelines at www.elecraft.com IMX, anything related to Ham radio that someone owning an Elecraft rig might be interested in is welcome for discussion here. 73, Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- With all due respect guys........... If it is OT it BY DEFINITION doesn't belong on this reflector, no matter how interesting, no matter that everyone in the ham world is interested in the fascinating topic. No matter that the participants on this reflector are some of the most knowledgeable people on earth (which they are), and also the nicest. If it isn't Elecraft related it doesn't belong here. Eric has to come on here periodically and remind us all. CME, ICE are not Elecraft topics. There, I feel better now. Rick K2XT ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Gary Bartlett VE1RGB
One application for band-pass filters is explained in the article, HF
Yagi Triplexer Especially for ARRL Field Day" in June 2010 QST. By adding series-tuned filters to a set of store-bought band-pass filters they were able to use a single tri-band beam with three transceivers at the same time. Here's an interesting comment from the article where they did some interference tests using various transceivers with a dummy load for an antenna. That is a worst-case test since the QRM is not covered up by band noise. "While this represented an artificial situation, nevertheless it was a useful way to expose underlying interference issues, which we did see in most cases. The only exception was an absence of any interference between two Elecraft K3 transceivers." :=) Al N1AL On Thu, 2011-04-28 at 13:23 -0300, gary bartlett wrote: > In the interest of reducing interference from/to our K2/sK3s and > the equipment of our friends at multi-transmitter events, I'd like to see > the topic taken one step further: a short explanation of why the need for > band pass filters with Elecraft equipment exists in the first place. > > > > * Whose radio am I protecting, mine or the other guy's? > > * What am I protecting it from? > > * Why doesn't the radio take care of this problem itself? > > * What is transmitted phase noise and what do I do about it? > > * Where does the K3 stack up in the world of transmitted phase noise > in amateur radio equipment? (I believe the answer is that the K3 is very > quiet and that I am more apt to be to victim, rather than the source, of > this problem] > > * Other relevant stuff I don't know about > > > > Can anyone point to a source of basic operational application of > band pass filters explained at this level and with the emphasis removed > about the insides of the filters themselves? > > > > 73, > > Gary, VE1RGB > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron D'Eau Claire > Sent: April 28, 2011 12:40 PM > To: [hidden email]; 'Rick Stealey' > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: ICE still functioning? > > > > Rick, that has never been true in practice in the 10+ years I've > participated in this reflector, nor can I find any mention of that in the > official list guidelines at www.elecraft.com > > > > IMX, anything related to Ham radio that someone owning an Elecraft rig might > be interested in is welcome for discussion here. > > > > 73, > > > > Ron AC7AC > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > With all due respect guys........... > > If it is OT it BY DEFINITION doesn't belong on this reflector, > > no matter how interesting, no matter that everyone in the ham > > world is interested in the fascinating topic. No matter that > > the participants on this reflector are some of the most > > knowledgeable people on earth (which they are), and also > > the nicest. If it isn't Elecraft related it doesn't belong here. > > Eric has to come on here periodically and remind us all. > > CME, ICE are not Elecraft topics. > > > > There, I feel better now. > > > > Rick K2XT > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Cookie
> > * Whose radio am I protecting, mine or the other guy's? > Your radio Actually one of the main reasons the filters are used is in DXpedition or FD setups to restrict the phase noise you transmit to your (phone or cw) part of the band so there can be other stations operating on the same band. So you are protecting the other stations ability to use the band at the same time. So if he has a lousy phase noise rig at least he won't be complaining that the K3 is making whishing noises as you transmit your cw. Of course his receiver will probably be desensing, but that's another matter. See below > > * Where does the K3 stack up in the world of transmitted phase noise > in amateur radio equipment? The lowest level of all radios. ARRL publishes transmitted phase noise as part of the review report. At 10 KHz away the K3 is the best but has some competition. At 100 KHz away it is 15 db better than the closest competition. But it is just as important on the receiving side where it makes the "reciprocal mixing" spec just as outstanding. See above. Rick K2XT ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Alan Bloom
Alan,
:-) Now don't that just beat all? OH yeah, I forgot...that's why we got the K3 eh? Gary On 29 April 2011 04:17, Alan Bloom <[hidden email]> wrote: > One application for band-pass filters is explained in the article, HF > Yagi Triplexer Especially for ARRL Field Day" in June 2010 QST. By > adding series-tuned filters to a set of store-bought band-pass filters > they were able to use a single tri-band beam with three transceivers at > the same time. > > Here's an interesting comment from the article where they did some > interference tests using various transceivers with a dummy load for an > antenna. That is a worst-case test since the QRM is not covered up by > band noise. > > "While this represented an artificial situation, nevertheless > it was a useful way to expose underlying interference issues, > which we did see in most cases. The only exception was an > absence of any interference between two Elecraft K3 transceivers." > > :=) > > Al N1AL > > > On Thu, 2011-04-28 at 13:23 -0300, gary bartlett wrote: > > In the interest of reducing interference from/to our K2/sK3s and > > the equipment of our friends at multi-transmitter events, I'd like to see > > the topic taken one step further: a short explanation of why the need > for > > band pass filters with Elecraft equipment exists in the first place. > > > > > > > > * Whose radio am I protecting, mine or the other guy's? > > > > * What am I protecting it from? > > > > * Why doesn't the radio take care of this problem itself? > > > > * What is transmitted phase noise and what do I do about it? > > > > * Where does the K3 stack up in the world of transmitted phase > noise > > in amateur radio equipment? (I believe the answer is that the K3 is very > > quiet and that I am more apt to be to victim, rather than the source, of > > this problem] > > > > * Other relevant stuff I don't know about > > > > > > > > Can anyone point to a source of basic operational application > of > > band pass filters explained at this level and with the emphasis removed > > about the insides of the filters themselves? > > > > > > > > 73, > > > > Gary, VE1RGB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [hidden email] > > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron D'Eau Claire > > Sent: April 28, 2011 12:40 PM > > To: [hidden email]; 'Rick Stealey' > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: ICE still functioning? > > > > > > > > Rick, that has never been true in practice in the 10+ years I've > > participated in this reflector, nor can I find any mention of that in the > > official list guidelines at www.elecraft.com > > > > > > > > IMX, anything related to Ham radio that someone owning an Elecraft rig > might > > be interested in is welcome for discussion here. > > > > > > > > 73, > > > > > > > > Ron AC7AC > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > With all due respect guys........... > > > > If it is OT it BY DEFINITION doesn't belong on this reflector, > > > > no matter how interesting, no matter that everyone in the ham > > > > world is interested in the fascinating topic. No matter that > > > > the participants on this reflector are some of the most > > > > knowledgeable people on earth (which they are), and also > > > > the nicest. If it isn't Elecraft related it doesn't belong here. > > > > Eric has to come on here periodically and remind us all. > > > > CME, ICE are not Elecraft topics. > > > > > > > > There, I feel better now. > > > > > > > > Rick K2XT > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > > > Elecraft mailing list > > > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > > > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > > > > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > -- VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile Elecraft Equipment K3 #679, KPA-500 #018 Living the dream!!! ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Rick Stealey
On 4/28/2011 11:39 AM, Rick Stealey wrote:
> Actually one of the main reasons the filters are used is in DXpedition > or FD setups to restrict the phase noise you transmit to your (phone or > cw) part of the band so there can be other stations operating on the > same band. So you are protecting the other stations ability to > use the band at the same time. This is NOT correct. Bandpass filters are just that -- they PASS the entire ham band, and only STOP signals outside the band. They will have NO effect on phase noise produced by a transmitter on th SAME band. A MUCH narrower filter is needed. W2VJN has published the design for a few multi-stub filters that ARE sharp enough to cut off between phone and CW on relatively wide bands like 160M, 80M, and 10M. It would be a real challenge to make them work on the other bands, which are MUCH narrower as percentage of the TX frequency. The W2VJN designs are in his EXCELLENT book on Managing Interstation Interference, available from the Inrad filter folks. It's worth many times the $25 cost. An important advantage of stubs is that they can be placed at the output of a power amp, so they can attenuate trash produced in the amp as well as trash produced in the transceiver. 73, Jim Brown K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Gary Bartlett VE1RGB
By the way, if you want to build your own transmit/receive band-pass
filters, there was a QST article by some guy with the call N1AL some years ago: Inexpensive Interference Filters, QST, June 1994 Al N1AL On Thu, 2011-04-28 at 13:23 -0300, gary bartlett wrote: > In the interest of reducing interference from/to our K2/sK3s and > the equipment of our friends at multi-transmitter events, ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
> This is NOT correct. Bandpass filters are just that -- they PASS the > entire ham band, and only STOP signals outside the band. > > W2VJN has published the design for a few multi-stub filters that ARE > sharp enough to cut off between phone and CW on relatively wide bands > like 160M, 80M, and 10M. Ok, so I was talking about SHARP bandpass filters. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
It is much harder to design a bandpass filter narrow enough to pass the
CW portion of a band while blocking the phone band or vice versa. But it is not impossible. Several decades ago the Murphy's Marauders contest club had some giant helical resonators that could do the job. As I recall the 20 meter one was the size of a rural mailbox. It had a knob so you could tune it to frequency. Al N1AL On Thu, 2011-04-28 at 12:24 -0700, Jim Brown wrote: > Bandpass filters are just that -- they PASS the > entire ham band, and only STOP signals outside the band. They will have > NO effect on phase noise produced by a transmitter on th SAME band. A > MUCH narrower filter is needed. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Rick Stealey
> Ok, so I was talking about SHARP bandpass filters. Most of us are only interested in what we can build or buy at reasonable cost (not for a Pentagon budget). What you're suggesting MUST be used at the output of a transmitter to reduce phase noise from the TX, so it would VERY difficult to build (and thus expensive). I've seen a few RX XTAL filters (Inrad makes a few) for use between the antenna and the RX (and could be used at the RX IN/OUT of the K3), but they won't help with TX phase noise that lands on your RX frequency. In practice, the best way to run two rigs on the same band is with lots of separation between antennas and very good radios (like a K3). Remember that we pick up at least 6dB of attenuation by doubling the distance between antennas that are in each other's FAR Field, and even more if in the near field. Several of us who set up country expedition stations for the California QSO Party do that. This past year, we had two good tribanders on tower trailers separated by roughly 150 ft, both aimed to the east coast, and located so that they each was about 90 degrees off axis to the other. With both K3s driving decent 500W amps, we were able to have both rigs on 20M or 15M at the same time and work signals that were S7 or better. To work the weaker stations, we had to put those stations on different bands. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Dave-7
I have had good success reducing the interaction between our K3s by
building/using the 5b4agn produced boards for the w3nqn filters http://www.5b4agn.net/ Dave ww2r Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 13:08:52 -0700 From: Alan Bloom <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: ICE still functioning? To: gary bartlett <[hidden email]> Cc: [hidden email] Message-ID: <1304021332.1488.29.camel@ulinux-desktop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" By the way, if you want to build your own transmit/receive band-pass filters, there was a QST article by some guy with the call N1AL some years ago: Inexpensive Interference Filters, QST, June 1994 Al N1AL On Thu, 2011-04-28 at 13:23 -0300, gary bartlett wrote: > In the interest of reducing interference from/to our K2/sK3s and > the equipment of our friends at multi-transmitter events, ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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