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K2 QQuestion on Options

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SHEAJOHNW

K2 QQuestion on Options

I have been a K2/100 operator for about ten years mostly on RTTY and CW utilizing the DSP filter as needed..

1. The SSB capability is needed by the K2 for digital operation. Digital mode operation is exciting because it can get out at 100 W or less power almost as effectively as CW verses SSB operation where it can be considerably more difficult to make contacts using simple low antennas and less that 100 W power.
2. The DSP provides the K2 AFilter feature which is useful for digital modes because it does not cause the slight frequency shift when engaged as does engaging XFilter. The slight XFilter induced frequency shift may not be an issue for good CW operators who only need the computer for logging..
3. For those having weak CW skills, engaging the DSP improves CW signal SNR enough to enable the assistance of reasonably effective computer decoding (Mixw) of strong and moderate strength machine generated CW such as contest QSOs. Without the assistance of the DSP, the K2's machine decoding of even strong CW signals can be ineffective. The DSP is not effective enough to allow useful machine decoding of very weak CW signals and hand keyed CW signals.

73 de KB1IKD

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R Thompson

Re: K2 QQuestion on Options

Thanks, but I'm not a fan of digital modes. I tried them once, and
tried to have a QSO with someone. He came back and told me that he
didn't QSO, and only sent the info that was pre-programmed in to the
function keys. Other attempts resulted in similar responses. So I
nick-named digital operation a "push-button" mode, and decided that it
wasn't for me.

It could be useful as an emergency communications tool, and in that case
I'd switch off audio filters and let the computer do its own signal
processing.

But the information on the phase shifting in the audio filter is
something I hadn't thought about. Still, the computer should be able to
do well without the audio filter in the radio I'd think.

I'm pretty much settled now on the KAF2 for "non push-button" modes.

Ron VE8RT

On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 08:28 -0400, [hidden email] wrote:

> I have been a K2/100 operator for about ten years mostly on RTTY and CW utilizing the DSP filter as needed..
>
> 1. The SSB capability is needed by the K2 for digital operation. Digital mode operation is exciting because it can get out at 100 W or less power almost as effectively as CW verses SSB operation where it can be considerably more difficult to make contacts using simple low antennas and less that 100 W power.
> 2. The DSP provides the K2 AFilter feature which is useful for digital modes because it does not cause the slight frequency shift when engaged as does engaging XFilter. The slight XFilter induced frequency shift may not be an issue for good CW operators who only need the computer for logging..
> 3. For those having weak CW skills, engaging the DSP improves CW signal SNR enough to enable the assistance of reasonably effective computer decoding (Mixw) of strong and moderate strength machine generated CW such as contest QSOs. Without the assistance of the DSP, the K2's machine decoding of even strong CW signals can be ineffective. The DSP is not effective enough to allow useful machine decoding of very weak CW signals and hand keyed CW signals.
>
> 73 de KB1IKD
>
>
>
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Tony Estep

Re: K2 QQuestion on Options

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 8:20 AM, R Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> .... I'm not a fan of digital modes...he only sent the info that was
> pre-programmed in to the function keys.....

===========
You mean you didn't get into ham radio so you could find out some guy's CPU
clock speed and the brand of his coax?

But digital does have its uses. Sometimes you can only get 'em on RTTY, or
even PSK -- I just got a LOTW qsl from PP0T. In the month he was there, I
heard him only once, and it was on PSK.

Tony KT0NY
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Dave Wright

Re: K2 QQuestion on Options

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Tony Estep <[hidden email]> wrote:

There is a LOT more to digital modes than just PSK and push button QSOs.
Many of the non-PSK modes are preferred by people who like to simply rag
chew. Modes like Olivia and Feld-Hell are very popular with rag chewers and
their performance can be superior (especially Olivia!) to PSK-31 as well,
which supports QRP operations or operations past peak-propagation times.

Also, keep in mind that many digital ops are not good typists, or don't
speak English as a native language. Macros allow everyone to communicate
regardless of native language or typing ability.

If you come across a guy that only wants to push buttons, let him. Odds are
that the next QSO will be someone who wants to rag chew. If not, then the
next one. Etc, etc, etc. And, some ops do make it known beforehand, using CQ
macros like "CQ CQ CQ rag chew de K3DCW K3DCW k". However, I find that
there is a lot less worry if you just take the QSOs as they come...push
button or rag chew doesn't matter, I personally enjoy the QSO regardless of
the content.

73

Dave
--
Dave
K3DCW
www.k3dcw.net

"Real radio bounces off of the sky"
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John Ragle

Re: K2 Question on Options

In reply to this post by R Thompson

Hello, Ron...

In past years I used my K2, my Flex 3000 (both sold, now) and my K3 on
one or another of the digital modes, e.g. CW and PSK31 for the most
part, but PSKxx (xx>31), Olivia, etc. as well. I would like to speak in
defense of these modes and in support of Elecraft's ability to run them
perfectly.

It seems to me that these modes are absolutely ideal for
chatting...sometimes my QSOs on PSK31 or PSK63 have lasted over an hour.
To be sure, there is routine information that is usually exchanged
during the initial part of a QSO (RSQ, name, QTH, etc), some of which
can be programmed into the macro keys that programs have available, but
the relaxed character of a contact makes it possible to have a real
conversation while drinking tea or eating soup, etc.

There are always a few people who seem to be counting coup (I call them
hello-goodbye QSOs), but you will find that behavior in any mode. Have
you considered the possibility that your call sign (VE8RQ) might
intimidate people into having short QSOs? While not extraordinary DX, it
is a sufficiently rare prefix that some might want to "make room for the
next fellow." I think that digital modes deserve another try...

John Ragle --W1ZI

=====

On 7/13/2011 9:20 AM, R Thompson wrote:
> Thanks, but I'm not a fan of digital modes. I tried them once, and
> tried to have a QSO with someone. He came back and told me that he
> didn't QSO, and only sent the info that was pre-programmed in to the
> function keys. Other attempts resulted in similar responses. So I
> nick-named digital operation a "push-button" mode, and decided that it
> wasn't for me.

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R Thompson

Re: K2 QQuestion on Options

In reply to this post by Tony Estep

During Field Day in 2010 I was part of a FD station set up in Hay
River (on the south side of Great Slave Lake). We were using Field Day
to promote amateur radio to the public. Anyway, both the station in Hay
River and bigger club set up back in Yellowknife were aiming to copy the
ARRL FD bulletin for the extra points. Both stations tried to copy it
in RTTY and the digital modes, but failed. It wasn't a matter of signal
strength or QRM, the signal was distorted (we're pretty sure it was
auroral distortion). We finally did copy it in Hay River, on CW.

I don't know if there are digital modes that would work with auroral
modulation on the signal. CW works when copied by ear and not on a
computer.

Eventually I would like to get up to speed with some of the digital
modes. We've been looking at getting trained and equipped to do some
ARES work, but we don't know what we can do with so few amateurs
scattered over this large territory. If there are modes robust enough
to work through auroral flutter I'm interested.

The response to my question has been beyond my expectations, and the
comments are all helpful.

Ron VE8RT

On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 08:48 -0500, Tony Estep wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 8:20 AM, R Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > .... I'm not a fan of digital modes...he only sent the info that was
> > pre-programmed in to the function keys.....
>
> ===========
> You mean you didn't get into ham radio so you could find out some guy's CPU
> clock speed and the brand of his coax?
>
> But digital does have its uses. Sometimes you can only get 'em on RTTY, or
> even PSK -- I just got a LOTW qsl from PP0T. In the month he was there, I
> heard him only once, and it was on PSK.
>
> Tony KT0NY
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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R Thompson

Re: K2 Question on Options

In reply to this post by John Ragle

The comments on being able to rag chew in digital modes have been
great. My first few experiences weren't encouraging and I was perhaps
too quick to form an opinion. After I get the K2 up and running on CW,
and then SSB, I'll revisit digital modes of operation and maybe be a
little more patient.

Thanks to all who replied!

Ron VE8RT

On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 10:04 -0400, John Ragle wrote:

> Hello, Ron...
>
> In past years I used my K2, my Flex 3000 (both sold, now) and my K3 on
> one or another of the digital modes, e.g. CW and PSK31 for the most
> part, but PSKxx (xx>31), Olivia, etc. as well. I would like to speak in
> defense of these modes and in support of Elecraft's ability to run them
> perfectly.
>
> It seems to me that these modes are absolutely ideal for
> chatting...sometimes my QSOs on PSK31 or PSK63 have lasted over an hour.
> To be sure, there is routine information that is usually exchanged
> during the initial part of a QSO (RSQ, name, QTH, etc), some of which
> can be programmed into the macro keys that programs have available, but
> the relaxed character of a contact makes it possible to have a real
> conversation while drinking tea or eating soup, etc.
>
> There are always a few people who seem to be counting coup (I call them
> hello-goodbye QSOs), but you will find that behavior in any mode. Have
> you considered the possibility that your call sign (VE8RQ) might
> intimidate people into having short QSOs? While not extraordinary DX, it
> is a sufficiently rare prefix that some might want to "make room for the
> next fellow." I think that digital modes deserve another try...
>
> John Ragle --W1ZI
>
> =====
>
> On 7/13/2011 9:20 AM, R Thompson wrote:
> > Thanks, but I'm not a fan of digital modes. I tried them once, and
> > tried to have a QSO with someone. He came back and told me that he
> > didn't QSO, and only sent the info that was pre-programmed in to the
> > function keys. Other attempts resulted in similar responses. So I
> > nick-named digital operation a "push-button" mode, and decided that it
> > wasn't for me.
>

Tony Estep

Re: K2 Question on Options

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 8:04 PM, R Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ....I'll revisit digital modes of operation....

============
There's more than just PSK and RTTY, of course. If you haven't tried WSPR or
JT65, check 'em out (just Google on them for a flood of info). They offer
variety and some experimental fun.

Tony KT0NY
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Tony Estep

Re: K2 QQuestion on Options

In reply to this post by R Thompson

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 7:59 PM, R Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> .... I don't know if there are digital modes that would work with auroral
> modulation on the signal.....

===============
JT65 and its variants (FSK441, WSJT9 etc) are made for distorted paths,
including meteor scatter and moonbounce.

Tony KT0NY
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R Thompson

Re: K2 QQuestion on Options

I'll try to keep those modes of operation in mind. And finding a net or
website for those modes of operation would help in making skeds. Modes
that will handle some distortion are worth looking into. Thanks again.
It might actually be fun.

Ron VE8RT

On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 20:28 -0500, Tony Estep wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 7:59 PM, R Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > .... I don't know if there are digital modes that would work with auroral
> > modulation on the signal.....
>
> ===============
> JT65 and its variants (FSK441, WSJT9 etc) are made for distorted paths,
> including meteor scatter and moonbounce.
>
> Tony KT0NY
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Tony Estep

Re: K2 QQuestion on Options

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:00 PM, R Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ...a net or website for those modes...

=======
http://hflink.com/jt65/
http://www.physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSJT_(Amateur_radio_software)
http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/WSJT_QST_Dec2001.pdf
http://www.qsl.net/dk3xt/soft.htm
and numerous others.

Tony KT0NY
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Sean Cavanaugh-4

Re: K2 QQuestion on Options

In reply to this post by R Thompson

If you like ragchewing, you'll probably be disappointed in JT65. It's got 1 minute transmit, 1 minute receive cycles and it only can send 13 characters per over.

Works great for EME and simple exchanges, but not conversing. It was originally developed for EME and handles odd distortion like libration fading quite well. Also, it will decode signals you can't even hear.

73,
Sean - VA5LF

On 2011-07-13, at 10:00 PM, R Thompson wrote:

> I'll try to keep those modes of operation in mind. And finding a net or
> website for those modes of operation would help in making skeds. Modes
> that will handle some distortion are worth looking into. Thanks again.
> It might actually be fun.
>
> Ron VE8RT
>
> On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 20:28 -0500, Tony Estep wrote:
>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 7:59 PM, R Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> .... I don't know if there are digital modes that would work with auroral
>>> modulation on the signal.....
>>
>> ===============
>> JT65 and its variants (FSK441, WSJT9 etc) are made for distorted paths,
>> including meteor scatter and moonbounce.
>>
>> Tony KT0NY
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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