K2 and CW
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Hello
I haven't had my K2 (# 5846 ) long enought to fully understand all the different settings that are possible with it , so I have a question. My CW filter setting are FL-1 1.50, FL-2 0.70, FL-3 0.40, and FL-4 is 0.10. Even FL-4 is no where near as effective as the 250 hz crystal filter in my Icom 718. When I turn on the 250 hz filter in the Icom, it's like building a wall right on each side of the signal that I am listening to. Nothing else is heard except noise and signals that are exactly on the same frequency. Is this kind of selectivity possible with the K2? If I installed the DSP option would that help? And if so, what would the filter settngs need to be? The only options I presently have are the 160 meter option, noise blanker, serial adapter, ssb option, and the KPA100. Thanks Scott N5SM _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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I can't speak about the 718 or the Elecraft DSP, but in my experience such
"brick wall" filtering creates far more problems than solutions. A huge amount of unwanted stuff is produced by signals on the sharp edges of such a filter that appear throughout the passband - much of it is that 'noise' you mention. I work 99% CW and my K2 is seldom set for less than 1.0 kHz bandwidth. My minimum is 0.4 kHz used only when I get a "loudmouth" shouting from almost on top of the signal I'm copying. That occasionally happens during a contest, but that's about it. I do have a skill that a great many experienced CW ops have that might be the difference. We can copy easily with several signals within the passband. It's like listening to one voice in a crowded party; we just "tune out" the other babble going on around us unless it's something we want to follow. It only gets difficult if one nut starts shouting in my ear when I'm trying to listen to someone else, Hi! Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- Hello I haven't had my K2 (# 5846 ) long enought to fully understand all the different settings that are possible with it , so I have a question. My CW filter setting are FL-1 1.50, FL-2 0.70, FL-3 0.40, and FL-4 is 0.10. Even FL-4 is no where near as effective as the 250 hz crystal filter in my Icom 718. When I turn on the 250 hz filter in the Icom, it's like building a wall right on each side of the signal that I am listening to. Nothing else is heard except noise and signals that are exactly on the same frequency. Is this kind of selectivity possible with the K2? If I installed the DSP option would that help? And if so, what would the filter settngs need to be? The only options I presently have are the 160 meter option, noise blanker, serial adapter, ssb option, and the KPA100. Thanks Scott N5SM _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Good Evening,
While I am running the nets I think I may miss someone if I run closed down. I normally use a setting of 1.0 kHz and go to 1.8 kHz if I am seeking off frequency. I have an Icom with a 250 Hz filter and it sounds odd to me. How would I know if there is someone right next door calling me? I'd much rather hear the babble of others than miss someone calling me. One time I was recording my contact with a friend to see how poorly I was sending. I knew I was ignoring another operator nearby. When I rewound the tape and played it back I copied five different stations. I had ignored four of them without realizing it. I guess they just weren't calling me so my mind tuned them out. While I do have my K2 set up with 1.8, 1.0, 0.5, and 0.25 kHz filter settings I rarely use the third and fourth settings. Missing someone is not what I intend to do. Good grief, they may teach me something! Kevin. KD5ONS On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 19:19:34 -0700, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote: > I can't speak about the 718 or the Elecraft DSP, but in my experience > such > "brick wall" filtering creates far more problems than solutions. A huge > amount of unwanted stuff is produced by signals on the sharp edges of > such a > filter that appear throughout the passband - much of it is that 'noise' > you > mention. > > I work 99% CW and my K2 is seldom set for less than 1.0 kHz bandwidth. My > minimum is 0.4 kHz used only when I get a "loudmouth" shouting from > almost > on top of the signal I'm copying. That occasionally happens during a > contest, but that's about it. > > I do have a skill that a great many experienced CW ops have that might be > the difference. We can copy easily with several signals within the > passband. > It's like listening to one voice in a crowded party; we just "tune out" > the > other babble going on around us unless it's something we want to follow. > It > only gets difficult if one nut starts shouting in my ear when I'm trying > to > listen to someone else, Hi! > > Ron AC7AC > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Hello > I haven't had my K2 (# 5846 ) long enought to fully understand all the > different settings that are possible with it , so I have a question. My > CW > filter setting are FL-1 1.50, FL-2 0.70, FL-3 0.40, and > FL-4 is 0.10. Even FL-4 is no where near as effective as the 250 hz > crystal > filter in my Icom 718. When I turn on the 250 hz filter in the Icom, it's > like building a wall right on each side of the signal that I am listening > to. Nothing else is heard except noise and signals that are exactly on > the > same frequency. Is this kind of selectivity possible with the K2? If I > installed the DSP option would that help? And if so, what would the > filter > settngs need to be? The only options I presently have are the 160 meter > option, noise blanker, serial adapter, ssb option, and the KPA100. Thanks > Scott N5SM > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/732 - Release Date: > 3/24/2007 4:36 PM > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Ron D'Eau Claire-2
I have an 718 with the 250 Hz filter. That filter locks down things
quite well, but it also allows "blow by" with large nearby signals that make things difficult also. In the short time I have been a CW op, the skill that Ron mentions is just starting to get to me. I have often been frustrated by other ops nearby. That is part of what drove me to the K2, was the many choices of filters. I agree with Scott, in the since, that I am seeking a way to make that last filter have more isolation capability without further attenuating the signal. Now that I have a little bit better idea what is going on with Spectrogram, after I have all the pieces finished, I plan on making another pass with that while sending some tones through and seeing what kind of tweaking I can accomplish. Scott, have you put your K2 through the Spectrogram alignments yet? I was not terribly impressed with the filters after the default settings were installed, but I was amazed after (several tries) I gave the filters a good alignment with Spectrogram. David Wilburn [hidden email] K4DGW K2 #5982 Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > I can't speak about the 718 or the Elecraft DSP, but in my experience such > "brick wall" filtering creates far more problems than solutions. A huge > amount of unwanted stuff is produced by signals on the sharp edges of such a > filter that appear throughout the passband - much of it is that 'noise' you > mention. > > I work 99% CW and my K2 is seldom set for less than 1.0 kHz bandwidth. My > minimum is 0.4 kHz used only when I get a "loudmouth" shouting from almost > on top of the signal I'm copying. That occasionally happens during a > contest, but that's about it. > > I do have a skill that a great many experienced CW ops have that might be > the difference. We can copy easily with several signals within the passband. > It's like listening to one voice in a crowded party; we just "tune out" the > other babble going on around us unless it's something we want to follow. It > only gets difficult if one nut starts shouting in my ear when I'm trying to > listen to someone else, Hi! > > Ron AC7AC > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Hello > I haven't had my K2 (# 5846 ) long enought to fully understand all the > different settings that are possible with it , so I have a question. My CW > filter setting are FL-1 1.50, FL-2 0.70, FL-3 0.40, and > FL-4 is 0.10. Even FL-4 is no where near as effective as the 250 hz crystal > filter in my Icom 718. When I turn on the 250 hz filter in the Icom, it's > like building a wall right on each side of the signal that I am listening > to. Nothing else is heard except noise and signals that are exactly on the > same frequency. Is this kind of selectivity possible with the K2? If I > installed the DSP option would that help? And if so, what would the filter > settngs need to be? The only options I presently have are the 160 meter > option, noise blanker, serial adapter, ssb option, and the KPA100. Thanks > Scott N5SM > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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I did a head to head comparison between my K2 and a near-mint TS-830s.
The 830s had dual 500 Hz factory filters (one in each IF) plus VBT to narrow things even further. The K2 is a late model unit and I put in 2 ground connections on each Xtal in the filter (per instructions). I found the K2 to be better at ultimate rejection than the loaded 830s. I also found the K2 to be a tad narrower than the 830s, even with the 830s VBT narrowed down. The 830s just didn't have the steep skirts nor ultimate rejection. My testing was done during a big CW contest when there were lots (lots!) of strong signals on the band. K2 won over a well respected rig. I find it really hard to believe that a starter rig (718) would have better filter performance. May be so, but you'd have to prove it to me. Makes me think the K2 isn't quite right yet. - Keith N1AS - - K2 5411.ssb.100 - _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by dave.wilburn
Based on the emails I have been getting, I apparently didn't state this
well. I am VERY happy with the level of filtering that I have been getting from the K2 in CW mode. The ability to turn the AGC off and drill down with the filters has been a great improvement over the 718. That being said, the next time I put the system on spectrogram, I am going to have a couple more tools available that I didn't have the first time around, and one of things I am going to be looking at is making the last two filters a little more narrow. I hope to do this without greatly attenuating the signal. Neither of these statements is meant to be a disparaging remark, merely a statement of what I hope to accomplish. One of the reasons I chose this rig, was because I can tailor the filters as I see fit. I played with the SSB on 80m the other night, and didn't get the level of rejection of adjacent signal interference that I would have liked. That being said, I have NOT put the rig back on Spectrogram since setting up the SSB board. So my first assumption was that I have not done my due diligence, not any deficiencies with the rig. David Wilburn [hidden email] K4DGW K2 #5982 David Wilburn wrote: > I have an 718 with the 250 Hz filter. That filter locks down things > quite well, but it also allows "blow by" with large nearby signals that > make things difficult also. In the short time I have been a CW op, the > skill that Ron mentions is just starting to get to me. I have often > been frustrated by other ops nearby. That is part of what drove me to > the K2, was the many choices of filters. > > I agree with Scott, in the since, that I am seeking a way to make that > last filter have more isolation capability without further attenuating > the signal. Now that I have a little bit better idea what is going on > with Spectrogram, after I have all the pieces finished, I plan on making > another pass with that while sending some tones through and seeing what > kind of tweaking I can accomplish. > > Scott, have you put your K2 through the Spectrogram alignments yet? I > was not terribly impressed with the filters after the default settings > were installed, but I was amazed after (several tries) I gave the > filters a good alignment with Spectrogram. > > David Wilburn > [hidden email] > K4DGW > K2 #5982 > > > Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: >> I can't speak about the 718 or the Elecraft DSP, but in my experience >> such >> "brick wall" filtering creates far more problems than solutions. A huge >> amount of unwanted stuff is produced by signals on the sharp edges of >> such a >> filter that appear throughout the passband - much of it is that >> 'noise' you >> mention. >> I work 99% CW and my K2 is seldom set for less than 1.0 kHz bandwidth. My >> minimum is 0.4 kHz used only when I get a "loudmouth" shouting from >> almost >> on top of the signal I'm copying. That occasionally happens during a >> contest, but that's about it. >> I do have a skill that a great many experienced CW ops have that might be >> the difference. We can copy easily with several signals within the >> passband. >> It's like listening to one voice in a crowded party; we just "tune >> out" the >> other babble going on around us unless it's something we want to >> follow. It >> only gets difficult if one nut starts shouting in my ear when I'm >> trying to >> listen to someone else, Hi! >> Ron AC7AC >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> Hello >> I haven't had my K2 (# 5846 ) long enought to fully understand all the >> different settings that are possible with it , so I have a question. >> My CW >> filter setting are FL-1 1.50, FL-2 0.70, FL-3 0.40, and FL-4 is 0.10. >> Even FL-4 is no where near as effective as the 250 hz crystal >> filter in my Icom 718. When I turn on the 250 hz filter in the Icom, it's >> like building a wall right on each side of the signal that I am listening >> to. Nothing else is heard except noise and signals that are exactly on >> the >> same frequency. Is this kind of selectivity possible with the K2? If I >> installed the DSP option would that help? And if so, what would the >> filter >> settngs need to be? The only options I presently have are the 160 meter >> option, noise blanker, serial adapter, ssb option, and the KPA100. Thanks >> Scott N5SM >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Post to: [hidden email] >> You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Post to: [hidden email] >> You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com >> > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by dave.wilburn
Scott...
I echo previous comments and add a few... With CW experience, in-the-brain filtering really does develop. It does take time, but just as assuredly, it does develop. I have an FT990 with a 250cps filter that I used pretty much all the time. Got use to it. That said, there were still times when adjacent signals messed everything up. So, I'm thinking selectivity tends to be as subjective as a graph makes it look objective. I have my K2 #5957 CW filters set for SSB/2.2kc, 800cps, 400cps & 150cps. I also have the DSP unit, and I have set those CW filters at BandPass, 500cps, 250cps & 100cps. I've tried most combinations of these two filter sets, but like you, I'm still getting a feel for the radio. That said, there's enough selectivity in that combination to narrow things down to the point that I sometimes open it up just to make sure the radio is still on <g>. I have used Spectogram to align the filters, and I'll be doing that again with a bit more experience. That made a significant difference in the "feel/sound" of the radio. Like you, I intend to do some more "measurement" in addition to just setting things up and starting to operate. Compared to the FT990, a rig that I have really enjoyed for many reasons, the K2 is much quieter and more flexible. The FT990 is now on the floor and the K2 is at the operating position. At the end of the day, it's a hobby and it's about having fun - and providing a service to the emergency community. I'm having more "fun" with the K2 than at any point in my hamming experience to date. I'm now working a fair amount of QRP "because it's there." I do have the 100w amp, and the tube amp is ready when needed. So, the K2 has given me a wider hamming experience and for that I'm grateful. ...robert At 08:46 04/09/2007 -0400, David Wilburn wrote: >I have an 718 with the 250 Hz filter. That filter locks down things quite >well, but it also allows "blow by" with large nearby signals that make >things difficult also. In the short time I have been a CW op, the skill >that Ron mentions is just starting to get to me. I have often been >frustrated by other ops nearby. That is part of what drove me to the K2, >was the many choices of filters. > >I agree with Scott, in the since, that I am seeking a way to make that >last filter have more isolation capability without further attenuating the >signal. Now that I have a little bit better idea what is going on with >Spectrogram, after I have all the pieces finished, I plan on making >another pass with that while sending some tones through and seeing what >kind of tweaking I can accomplish. > >Scott, have you put your K2 through the Spectrogram alignments yet? I was >not terribly impressed with the filters after the default settings were >installed, but I was amazed after (several tries) I gave the filters a >good alignment with Spectrogram. > >David Wilburn >[hidden email] >K4DGW >K2 #5982 > > >Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: >>I can't speak about the 718 or the Elecraft DSP, but in my experience such >>"brick wall" filtering creates far more problems than solutions. A huge >>amount of unwanted stuff is produced by signals on the sharp edges of such a >>filter that appear throughout the passband - much of it is that 'noise' you >>mention. >>I work 99% CW and my K2 is seldom set for less than 1.0 kHz bandwidth. My >>minimum is 0.4 kHz used only when I get a "loudmouth" shouting from almost >>on top of the signal I'm copying. That occasionally happens during a >>contest, but that's about it. >>I do have a skill that a great many experienced CW ops have that might be >>the difference. We can copy easily with several signals within the passband. >>It's like listening to one voice in a crowded party; we just "tune out" the >>other babble going on around us unless it's something we want to follow. It >>only gets difficult if one nut starts shouting in my ear when I'm trying to >>listen to someone else, Hi! >>Ron AC7AC >> >>-----Original Message----- >>Hello >>I haven't had my K2 (# 5846 ) long enought to fully understand all the >>different settings that are possible with it , so I have a question. My CW >>filter setting are FL-1 1.50, FL-2 0.70, FL-3 0.40, and FL-4 is 0.10. >>Even FL-4 is no where near as effective as the 250 hz crystal >>filter in my Icom 718. When I turn on the 250 hz filter in the Icom, it's >>like building a wall right on each side of the signal that I am listening >>to. Nothing else is heard except noise and signals that are exactly on the >>same frequency. Is this kind of selectivity possible with the K2? If I >>installed the DSP option would that help? And if so, what would the filter >>settngs need to be? The only options I presently have are the 160 meter >>option, noise blanker, serial adapter, ssb option, and the KPA100. Thanks >>Scott N5SM >>_______________________________________________ >>Elecraft mailing list >>Post to: [hidden email] >>You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >>Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >>Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com >>_______________________________________________ >>Elecraft mailing list >>Post to: [hidden email] >>You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >>Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >>Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com >_______________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Post to: [hidden email] >You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): >http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com Robert G. Strickland PhD ABPH - KE2WY [hidden email] Syracuse, New York USA _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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