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K2 and KX3 with A/B switch

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Ignacy

K2 and KX3 with A/B switch

I am going to sell my K2 as it is gathering dust since KX3 came on board. But
for probably the last time I put them on the A/B switch. Here is what I have
found.

1. K2 has good speaker. KX3 has lousy speaker. Nothing strange as K2 is
bigger.

For comparisons I attached KX3 to an external amplified speaker.

2. A weak CW signal in K2 is natural and easy copying. You can make it sound
similar in KX3 by playing PBT and sometimes engaging APF.

3. in SSB, K2 sounds nice and mellow although the bandwidth is limited. KX3
sounds tiring because of AGC pumping. I fiddled with HOLD, ATTACH, etc.,
with little effect.

K2 has to go because it is too big. But it is a fine radio.

Has anybody found AGC in KX3 harsh? Any way to do something about it other
than running RF gain?

Ignacy, NO9E

--
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Don Wilhelm

Re: K2 and KX3 with A/B switch

The KX3 AGC is very similar to the K3 AGC. Take a look at the "Noisy
K3" article on my website for some relief. The KX3 and K3 threshold
and slope numbers may not match, but can be a guide for obtaining the
settings that are best for your type of operation.

See www.w3fpr.com.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/1/2017 10:17 PM, Ignacy wrote:

> I am going to sell my K2 as it is gathering dust since KX3 came on board. But
> for probably the last time I put them on the A/B switch. Here is what I have
> found.
>
> 1. K2 has good speaker. KX3 has lousy speaker. Nothing strange as K2 is
> bigger.
>
> For comparisons I attached KX3 to an external amplified speaker.
>
> 2. A weak CW signal in K2 is natural and easy copying. You can make it sound
> similar in KX3 by playing PBT and sometimes engaging APF.
>
> 3. in SSB, K2 sounds nice and mellow although the bandwidth is limited. KX3
> sounds tiring because of AGC pumping. I fiddled with HOLD, ATTACH, etc.,
> with little effect.
>
> K2 has to go because it is too big. But it is a fine radio.
>
> Has anybody found AGC in KX3 harsh? Any way to do something about it other
> than running RF gain?

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wayne burdick

Re: K2 and KX3 with A/B switch

Administrator

In reply to this post by Ignacy

Ignacy,

I’ve never noticed the KX3’s AGC pumping, so I suspect something else. Small speaker aside, it should sound every bit as good as the analog K2, just with additional filtering features (thanks to the KX3’s DSP).

Try turning AGC off. If there really were pumping, this would stop it. If it doesn’t stop, there’s something else going on. Do you have NB or NR turned on? Also try setting RX SHFT to 8.0 to see if you have noise getting into the KX3’s power supply lead. Baseband (RX SHFT=0) would be more affected by this in some cases.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

> On Nov 1, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Ignacy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I am going to sell my K2 as it is gathering dust since KX3 came on board. But
> for probably the last time I put them on the A/B switch. Here is what I have
> found.
>
> 1. K2 has good speaker. KX3 has lousy speaker. Nothing strange as K2 is
> bigger.
>
> For comparisons I attached KX3 to an external amplified speaker.
>
> 2. A weak CW signal in K2 is natural and easy copying. You can make it sound
> similar in KX3 by playing PBT and sometimes engaging APF.
>
> 3. in SSB, K2 sounds nice and mellow although the bandwidth is limited. KX3
> sounds tiring because of AGC pumping. I fiddled with HOLD, ATTACH, etc.,
> with little effect.
>
> K2 has to go because it is too big. But it is a fine radio.
>
> Has anybody found AGC in KX3 harsh? Any way to do something about it other
> than running RF gain?
>
> Ignacy, NO9E
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

iw2noy

Re: K2 and KX3 with A/B switch

In reply to this post by Ignacy

Hello,

My KX3 doesn't show the problem you describe, maybe you need to give a look to your settings, but you already received some answers from the major experts.
I also own a K2 full optional and i think is the best radio for CW, the K2 have the best signal/noise ratio i ever heard and the sound is smooth and natural, very pleasant.
I have also a K3s, i love Elecraft rigs, but to me, the more fascinating one remain the K2.
I am strong Elecrafter here in Italy, Eric knows this ;-)

I prefer the KX3 outside the shack, is complete and can do everything, from phone to cw to digital.
The K2 have only SSB and CW.
Althoug in CW is the better, in SSB maybe not.

I agree with you that "strangely" the audio from the K2 is nicer despite the tight filter, but i still find difficult to push out ALL the watt in SSB.
Comparing the K2 to my other radios, included the K3s, i can see that the K2 never reach the maximum output power in SSB. I tried different microphone and settings, but i always get no more than 60-70% of the maximum power in the best conditions.
This is the only point of regret with my beloved K2.
Is not very important because i mostly do CW and in CW the K2 is a top performer, but i would like to find a solutions before of after.
I can also add that i already done all the adjustent suggested for filters tuning and BFO alignments, Gary (from Elecraft) knows how much time we spent on it ;-)

Best regards, to all, Graziano IW2NOY (W2NOY)

> Il 2 novembre 2017 alle 3.17 Ignacy <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
>
> I am going to sell my K2 as it is gathering dust since KX3 came on board. But
> for probably the last time I put them on the A/B switch. Here is what I have
> found.
>
> 1. K2 has good speaker. KX3 has lousy speaker. Nothing strange as K2 is
> bigger.
>
> For comparisons I attached KX3 to an external amplified speaker.
>
> 2. A weak CW signal in K2 is natural and easy copying. You can make it sound
> similar in KX3 by playing PBT and sometimes engaging APF.
>
> 3. in SSB, K2 sounds nice and mellow although the bandwidth is limited. KX3
> sounds tiring because of AGC pumping. I fiddled with HOLD, ATTACH, etc.,
> with little effect.
>
> K2 has to go because it is too big. But it is a fine radio.
>
> Has anybody found AGC in KX3 harsh? Any way to do something about it other
> than running RF gain?
>
> Ignacy, NO9E
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Ignacy

Re: K2 and KX3 with A/B switch

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Thank you for the comments.

The pop goes away with AGC OFF. It also goes away with AGS PLS set OFF.
Perhaps PLS OFF will be my new default setting, unless in heavy QRN.

Now, I will have easy time partying with K2. BTW, it goes to Z35M, who
should be "Elecraft hero". He made about half a million,QSOs mostly
portable using K1. To many, he put ZA on the map.See his QRZ web page.

Ignacy, NO9E

On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 12:46 AM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ignacy,
>
> I’ve never noticed the KX3’s AGC pumping, so I suspect something else.
> Small speaker aside, it should sound every bit as good as the analog K2,
> just with additional filtering features (thanks to the KX3’s DSP).
>
> Try turning AGC off. If there really were pumping, this would stop it. If
> it doesn’t stop, there’s something else going on. Do you have NB or NR
> turned on? Also try setting RX SHFT to 8.0 to see if you have noise getting
> into the KX3’s power supply lead. Baseband (RX SHFT=0) would be more
> affected by this in some cases.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
> > On Nov 1, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Ignacy <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I am going to sell my K2 as it is gathering dust since KX3 came on
> board. But
> > for probably the last time I put them on the A/B switch. Here is what I
> have
> > found.
> >
> > 1. K2 has good speaker. KX3 has lousy speaker. Nothing strange as K2 is
> > bigger.
> >
> > For comparisons I attached KX3 to an external amplified speaker.
> >
> > 2. A weak CW signal in K2 is natural and easy copying. You can make it
> sound
> > similar in KX3 by playing PBT and sometimes engaging APF.
> >
> > 3. in SSB, K2 sounds nice and mellow although the bandwidth is limited.
> KX3
> > sounds tiring because of AGC pumping. I fiddled with HOLD, ATTACH, etc.,
> > with little effect.
> >
> > K2 has to go because it is too big. But it is a fine radio.
> >
> > Has anybody found AGC in KX3 harsh? Any way to do something about it
> other
> > than running RF gain?
> >
> > Ignacy, NO9E
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>

Don Wilhelm

Re: K2 and KX3 with A/B switch

In reply to this post by iw2noy

Graziano,

How are you measuring the power output in SSB? If an external
wattmeter, you are likely driving it to full PEP power.

I test the SSB operation on each K2 I repair to be certain the PEP is
the same as the CW response at full power. I use an oscilloscope to
determine that. An external wattmeter will only show about 50 to 60% of
the full PEP.

Run the SSB C menu parameter to 3:1 and try it. If you are using an
electret microphone (Elecraft or Icom), the SSB A parameter at 1 should
be sufficient, but if using a dynamic microphone, a setting of 2 is good
for the higher output microphones but 3 may be needed for those with low
output.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/2/2017 7:24 AM, Graziano Roccon wrote:

> The K2 have only SSB and CW.
> Althoug in CW is the better, in SSB maybe not.
>
> I agree with you that "strangely" the audio from the K2 is nicer despite the tight filter, but i still find difficult to push out ALL the watt in SSB.
> Comparing the K2 to my other radios, included the K3s, i can see that the K2 never reach the maximum output power in SSB. I tried different microphone and settings, but i always get no more than 60-70% of the maximum power in the best conditions.
> This is the only point of regret with my beloved K2.
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iw2noy

Re: K2 and KX3 with A/B switch

Hello Don,

thanks for your attention.
I measured the power output meny times with two different meters, one with PEP function and one without.
In both cases i can see the differences between the K2 and the other radios.
On the same meter where i read 60-70 watts with the K2, i can read 90-100 watt with the K3s.
I know that can be an average reading but in any case with the K2 is always lower by at minimum a 30%.

This is not so important, i use the K2 in CW where is a top performer and where i think is the best radio for that mode.
I was just asking to myself how get the maximum power, so i don't need to change radio when i see a new one in SSB on the cluster ;-)
I am quite sure that on a very strong SSB pile up, i will never pass with the K2.
Instead, in CW i always do all i can hear and sometimes the K2 hear signals that other radios loose in the noise.

My best regards, Graziano IW2NOY

PS
I read with many interest your article on AGC Settings for K3 on your site.
Thanks for writing it.

> Il 2 novembre 2017 alle 12.42 Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
>
> Graziano,
>
> How are you measuring the power output in SSB? If an external
> wattmeter, you are likely driving it to full PEP power.
>
> I test the SSB operation on each K2 I repair to be certain the PEP is
> the same as the CW response at full power. I use an oscilloscope to
> determine that. An external wattmeter will only show about 50 to 60% of
> the full PEP.
>
> Run the SSB C menu parameter to 3:1 and try it. If you are using an
> electret microphone (Elecraft or Icom), the SSB A parameter at 1 should
> be sufficient, but if using a dynamic microphone, a setting of 2 is good
> for the higher output microphones but 3 may be needed for those with low
> output.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 11/2/2017 7:24 AM, Graziano Roccon wrote:
>
> > The K2 have only SSB and CW.
> > Althoug in CW is the better, in SSB maybe not.
> >
> > I agree with you that "strangely" the audio from the K2 is nicer despite the tight filter, but i still find difficult to push out ALL the watt in SSB.
> > Comparing the K2 to my other radios, included the K3s, i can see that the K2 never reach the maximum output power in SSB. I tried different microphone and settings, but i always get no more than 60-70% of the maximum power in the best conditions.
> > This is the only point of regret with my beloved K2.