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K2 automatic tuner

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William Lagerberg

K2 automatic tuner

Hi group,

Perhaps it's a silly question, but i don't understand something.

I have a K2 100 watt but I don't think any other set will make a deferens.

the set is connected to a tuner (AT-100Pro LDG) and it tunes as far as I can
see ok.

But now what I notice, when I tune the tuner tunes to swr 1.1 so that seems
to be ok, but my K2 gives me 2.0 1.

Does that mean my K2 sees a swr from2.0 whil my tuner says it is 1.0 ??

I just don't understand this so perhaps somebody can explane.

Regards William PE1BSB

K2

K3

P3

KX3

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Don Wilhelm

Re: K2 automatic tuner

William,

Are you reading the K2 display correctly when you do a TUNE?
Normally the K2 displays the power on the left and the SWR on the right.
The power is normally 20 watts and the SWR will be shown as 2 digits
(1.0 through 9.9).
In other words, you will see something like "20 1.0".

If the KPA100 wattmeter is not indicating properly, it may be that
diodes D16 and D17 have become damaged, or it may just be that the
wattmeter needs to be balanced and calibrated.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/20/2016 12:33 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hi group,
>
> Perhaps it's a silly question, but i don't understand something.
>
> I have a K2 100 watt but I don't think any other set will make a deferens.
> the set is connected to a tuner (AT-100Pro LDG) and it tunes as far as I can
> see ok.
>
> But now what I notice, when I tune the tuner tunes to swr 1.1 so that seems
> to be ok, but my K2 gives me 2.0 1.
>
> Does that mean my K2 sees a swr from2.0 whil my tuner says it is 1.0 ??
>

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William Lagerberg

Re: K2 automatic tuner

Thanks Don fort he answer,

The display is ok

I just did not put every thing there

It says : 20 2.0 - 1

So I enderstand that as a swr of 2.0 ???

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Don Wilhelm [mailto:[hidden email]]
Verzonden: woensdag 20 juli 2016 19:27
Aan: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>;
[hidden email]
Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft] K2 automatic tuner

William,

Are you reading the K2 display correctly when you do a TUNE?
Normally the K2 displays the power on the left and the SWR on the right.
The power is normally 20 watts and the SWR will be shown as 2 digits
(1.0 through 9.9).
In other words, you will see something like "20 1.0".

If the KPA100 wattmeter is not indicating properly, it may be that diodes
D16 and D17 have become damaged, or it may just be that the wattmeter needs
to be balanced and calibrated.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/20/2016 12:33 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Hi group,
>
> Perhaps it's a silly question, but i don't understand something.
>
> I have a K2 100 watt but I don't think any other set will make a
deferens.
> the set is connected to a tuner (AT-100Pro LDG) and it tunes as far as
> I can see ok.
>
> But now what I notice, when I tune the tuner tunes to swr 1.1 so that
seems
> to be ok, but my K2 gives me 2.0 1.
>
> Does that mean my K2 sees a swr from2.0 whil my tuner says it is 1.0 ??
>

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Don Wilhelm

Re: K2 automatic tuner

William,

Thanks for that clarification. Connect the KPA100 to a good dummy load
and do the wattmeter alignment and calibration as indicated in the
KPA100 manual page 48 - see the SWR Bridge Null Adjustment and also the
Power Calibration sections.
You must do the bridge null before attempting the Power Calibration.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/20/2016 1:41 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Thanks Don fort he answer,
>
> The display is ok
>
> I just did not put every thing there
>
> It says : 20 2.0 - 1
>
> So I enderstand that as a swr of 2.0 ???
>
>
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Don Wilhelm [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Verzonden: woensdag 20 juli 2016 19:27
> Aan: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>;
> [hidden email]
> Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft] K2 automatic tuner
>
> William,
>
> Are you reading the K2 display correctly when you do a TUNE?
> Normally the K2 displays the power on the left and the SWR on the right.
> The power is normally 20 watts and the SWR will be shown as 2 digits
> (1.0 through 9.9).
> In other words, you will see something like "20 1.0".
>
> If the KPA100 wattmeter is not indicating properly, it may be that diodes
> D16 and D17 have become damaged, or it may just be that the wattmeter needs
> to be balanced and calibrated.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 7/20/2016 12:33 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> Hi group,
>>
>> Perhaps it's a silly question, but i don't understand something.
>>
>> I have a K2 100 watt but I don't think any other set will make a
> deferens.
>> the set is connected to a tuner (AT-100Pro LDG) and it tunes as far as
>> I can see ok.
>>
>> But now what I notice, when I tune the tuner tunes to swr 1.1 so that
> seems
>> to be ok, but my K2 gives me 2.0 1.
>>
>> Does that mean my K2 sees a swr from2.0 whil my tuner says it is 1.0 ??
>>
>
>
>

William Lagerberg

Re: K2 automatic tuner

When i just connect a 50 ohm dummy tot he K2 it says 20 1.0 - 1

So I think it is right calibrated :-)

Regards William

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Don Wilhelm [mailto:[hidden email]]
Verzonden: woensdag 20 juli 2016 19:50
Aan: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>;
[hidden email]
Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft] K2 automatic tuner

William,

Thanks for that clarification. Connect the KPA100 to a good dummy load and
do the wattmeter alignment and calibration as indicated in the
KPA100 manual page 48 - see the SWR Bridge Null Adjustment and also the
Power Calibration sections.
You must do the bridge null before attempting the Power Calibration.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/20/2016 1:41 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Thanks Don fort he answer,
>
> The display is ok
>
> I just did not put every thing there
>
> It says : 20 2.0 - 1
>
> So I enderstand that as a swr of 2.0 ???
>
>
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Don Wilhelm [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Verzonden: woensdag 20 juli 2016 19:27
> Aan: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>;
> [hidden email]
> Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft] K2 automatic tuner
>
> William,
>
> Are you reading the K2 display correctly when you do a TUNE?
> Normally the K2 displays the power on the left and the SWR on the right.
> The power is normally 20 watts and the SWR will be shown as 2 digits
> (1.0 through 9.9).
> In other words, you will see something like "20 1.0".
>
> If the KPA100 wattmeter is not indicating properly, it may be that
> diodes
> D16 and D17 have become damaged, or it may just be that the wattmeter
> needs to be balanced and calibrated.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 7/20/2016 12:33 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> Hi group,
>>
>> Perhaps it's a silly question, but i don't understand something.
>>
>> I have a K2 100 watt but I don't think any other set will make a
> deferens.
>> the set is connected to a tuner (AT-100Pro LDG) and it tunes as far
>> as I can see ok.
>>
>> But now what I notice, when I tune the tuner tunes to swr 1.1 so that
> seems
>> to be ok, but my K2 gives me 2.0 1.
>>
>> Does that mean my K2 sees a swr from2.0 whil my tuner says it is 1.0 ??
>>
>
>
>

Don Wilhelm

Re: K2 automatic tuner

William,

That indicates that either you have a bad coax between the K2 and the
tuner, or the tuner's SWR meter has a problem.

If you have an antenna analyzer, connect it to the same coax that you
connect to the K2 and see what it indicates.

It may be that the KPA100 wattmeter could stand some refinement, but
that would take some special dummy loads - I use a 25 ohm and a 100 ohm
dummy load to refine the setting of capacitor C1 - the SWR indication
should be the *same* for each of these loads if C1 is set to exactly the
null point. That is more precise than finding the voltage null.
After doing that adjustment, I set R27 to show SWR at the 2.0-1 point
and then set R26 to indicate the power while driving a 50 ohm dummy load
and an external wattmeter that I know is properly calibrated.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/20/2016 2:02 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> When i just connect a 50 ohm dummy tot he K2 it says 20 1.0 - 1
>
> So I think it is right calibrated :-)
>
> Regards William
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Don Wilhelm [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Verzonden: woensdag 20 juli 2016 19:50
> Aan: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>;
> [hidden email]
> Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft] K2 automatic tuner
>
> William,
>
> Thanks for that clarification. Connect the KPA100 to a good dummy load and
> do the wattmeter alignment and calibration as indicated in the
> KPA100 manual page 48 - see the SWR Bridge Null Adjustment and also the
> Power Calibration sections.
> You must do the bridge null before attempting the Power Calibration.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 7/20/2016 1:41 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> Thanks Don fort he answer,
>>
>> The display is ok
>>
>> I just did not put every thing there
>>
>> It says : 20 2.0 - 1
>>
>> So I enderstand that as a swr of 2.0 ???
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>> Van: Don Wilhelm [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Verzonden: woensdag 20 juli 2016 19:27
>> Aan: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>;
>> [hidden email]
>> Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft] K2 automatic tuner
>>
>> William,
>>
>> Are you reading the K2 display correctly when you do a TUNE?
>> Normally the K2 displays the power on the left and the SWR on the right.
>> The power is normally 20 watts and the SWR will be shown as 2 digits
>> (1.0 through 9.9).
>> In other words, you will see something like "20 1.0".
>>
>> If the KPA100 wattmeter is not indicating properly, it may be that
>> diodes
>> D16 and D17 have become damaged, or it may just be that the wattmeter
>> needs to be balanced and calibrated.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 7/20/2016 12:33 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> Hi group,
>>>
>>> Perhaps it's a silly question, but i don't understand something.
>>>
>>> I have a K2 100 watt but I don't think any other set will make a
>> deferens.
>>> the set is connected to a tuner (AT-100Pro LDG) and it tunes as far
>>> as I can see ok.
>>>
>>> But now what I notice, when I tune the tuner tunes to swr 1.1 so that
>> seems
>>> to be ok, but my K2 gives me 2.0 1.
>>>
>>> Does that mean my K2 sees a swr from2.0 whil my tuner says it is 1.0 ??
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

ab2tc

Re: K2 automatic tuner

Hi all,

I can think of one other *possible* explanation, although far fetched. If the K2 transmitter has excessive harmonics or parasitics, this could happen. The out of band energy is readily absorbed by the dummy load but not by the tuned load presented by the LDG tuner. The antenna analyzer should easily resolve this.

AB2TC - Knut

Don Wilhelm wrote

William,

That indicates that either you have a bad coax between the K2 and the
tuner, or the tuner's SWR meter has a problem.

If you have an antenna analyzer, connect it to the same coax that you
connect to the K2 and see what it indicates.

It may be that the KPA100 wattmeter could stand some refinement, but
that would take some special dummy loads - I use a 25 ohm and a 100 ohm
dummy load to refine the setting of capacitor C1 - the SWR indication
should be the *same* for each of these loads if C1 is set to exactly the
null point. That is more precise than finding the voltage null.
After doing that adjustment, I set R27 to show SWR at the 2.0-1 point
and then set R26 to indicate the power while driving a 50 ohm dummy load
and an external wattmeter that I know is properly calibrated.

73,
Don W3FPR
<snip>

Don Wilhelm

Re: K2 automatic tuner

Knut and all,

I do agree with that *and* if the band is 40 meters *and* if the KPA100
is not the latest design T/R switch it is entirely possible that there
could be a spurious response above the 40 meter band during the time it
takes to do the antenna tuning - this may cause the ATU to tune the
antenna somewhere above the 40 meter band.
There is also the possibility that RFC10 (on the back of the SO-239
jack) is coupling with the base K2 - and that condition is worse if the
shield is the older one with a wide notch above the SO-239 jack and no
solder lugs from the SO-239 jack to the top of the shield. I am not
saying that the problem is restricted to 40 meters, only that it is more
apparent on 40 than on other bands.

If the KPA100 has the older red core toroids at L15 and L16, it should
be updated with the KPA100MDKT because that mod was created to address
exactly that problem.
If the shield needs updated, the KPA100SHLDKT is available.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/20/2016 2:38 PM, ab2tc wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I can think of one other *possible* explanation, although far fetched. If
> the K2 transmitter has excessive harmonics or parasitics, this could happen.
> The out of band energy is readily absorbed by the dummy load but not by the
> tuned load presented by the LDG tuner. The antenna analyzer should easily
> resolve this.
>
>

______________________________________________________________
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Message delivered to [hidden email]

William Lagerberg

Re: K2 automatic tuner

Ok Don and Knut,

Its getting better :-)

I tryed a antenne analyzer, gives me the same as my K2, so I think K2 is
fine.
The AT-100 ( just bought it second hand, has two antenna connectors wich I
can switch. Put a dummy on the other port then switched an tune the dummy 20
1.0 - 1 so looks ok
Did the same with connectors reversed so antenne 1 is antenne 2 again 20
1.0 - 1

But with the antenne it stil give me the same as my antenne analyzer.

Is this the tuner ??

William PE1BSB

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] Namens Don Wilhelm
Verzonden: woensdag 20 juli 2016 21:04
Aan: [hidden email]
Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft] K2 automatic tuner

Knut and all,

I do agree with that *and* if the band is 40 meters *and* if the KPA100 is
not the latest design T/R switch it is entirely possible that there could be
a spurious response above the 40 meter band during the time it takes to do
the antenna tuning - this may cause the ATU to tune the antenna somewhere
above the 40 meter band.
There is also the possibility that RFC10 (on the back of the SO-239
jack) is coupling with the base K2 - and that condition is worse if the
shield is the older one with a wide notch above the SO-239 jack and no
solder lugs from the SO-239 jack to the top of the shield. I am not saying
that the problem is restricted to 40 meters, only that it is more apparent
on 40 than on other bands.

If the KPA100 has the older red core toroids at L15 and L16, it should be
updated with the KPA100MDKT because that mod was created to address exactly
that problem.
If the shield needs updated, the KPA100SHLDKT is available.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/20/2016 2:38 PM, ab2tc wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I can think of one other *possible* explanation, although far fetched.
> If the K2 transmitter has excessive harmonics or parasitics, this could
happen.
> The out of band energy is readily absorbed by the dummy load but not
> by the tuned load presented by the LDG tuner. The antenna analyzer
> should easily resolve this.
>
>

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William Lagerberg

Re: K2 automatic tuner

PS i have the shield update.

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] Namens
[hidden email]
Verzonden: woensdag 20 juli 2016 21:18
Aan: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft] K2 automatic tuner

Ok Don and Knut,

Its getting better :-)

I tryed a antenne analyzer, gives me the same as my K2, so I think K2 is
fine.
The AT-100 ( just bought it second hand, has two antenna connectors wich I
can switch. Put a dummy on the other port then switched an tune the dummy 20
1.0 - 1 so looks ok
Did the same with connectors reversed so antenne 1 is antenne 2 again 20
1.0 - 1

But with the antenne it stil give me the same as my antenne analyzer.

Is this the tuner ??

William PE1BSB

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] Namens Don Wilhelm
Verzonden: woensdag 20 juli 2016 21:04
Aan: [hidden email]
Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft] K2 automatic tuner

Knut and all,

I do agree with that *and* if the band is 40 meters *and* if the KPA100 is
not the latest design T/R switch it is entirely possible that there could be
a spurious response above the 40 meter band during the time it takes to do
the antenna tuning - this may cause the ATU to tune the antenna somewhere
above the 40 meter band.
There is also the possibility that RFC10 (on the back of the SO-239
jack) is coupling with the base K2 - and that condition is worse if the
shield is the older one with a wide notch above the SO-239 jack and no
solder lugs from the SO-239 jack to the top of the shield. I am not saying
that the problem is restricted to 40 meters, only that it is more apparent
on 40 than on other bands.

If the KPA100 has the older red core toroids at L15 and L16, it should be
updated with the KPA100MDKT because that mod was created to address exactly
that problem.
If the shield needs updated, the KPA100SHLDKT is available.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/20/2016 2:38 PM, ab2tc wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I can think of one other *possible* explanation, although far fetched.
> If the K2 transmitter has excessive harmonics or parasitics, this
> could
happen.
> The out of band energy is readily absorbed by the dummy load but not
> by the tuned load presented by the LDG tuner. The antenna analyzer
> should easily resolve this.
>
>

______________________________________________________________
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William Lagerberg

Re: K2 automatic tuner

Little extra

Al tests are made on 3604. When I pick diver end bands it gives me diver end
outcome so 3 band are really 1.0. - 1 some 1.3 - 1 so its also depending on
the band,
I have a G5RV I am curious what happens without a tuner
Going to test that later, wife is waiting and have to be the man in the
house :-))

Nice testing this really is a nice group with a lot of nollage..

73 PE1BSB

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] Namens
[hidden email]
Verzonden: woensdag 20 juli 2016 21:21
Aan: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft] K2 automatic tuner

PS i have the shield update.

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] Namens
[hidden email]
Verzonden: woensdag 20 juli 2016 21:18
Aan: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft] K2 automatic tuner

Ok Don and Knut,

Its getting better :-)

I tryed a antenne analyzer, gives me the same as my K2, so I think K2 is
fine.
The AT-100 ( just bought it second hand, has two antenna connectors wich I
can switch. Put a dummy on the other port then switched an tune the dummy 20
1.0 - 1 so looks ok
Did the same with connectors reversed so antenne 1 is antenne 2 again 20
1.0 - 1

But with the antenne it stil give me the same as my antenne analyzer.

Is this the tuner ??

William PE1BSB

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] Namens Don Wilhelm
Verzonden: woensdag 20 juli 2016 21:04
Aan: [hidden email]
Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft] K2 automatic tuner

Knut and all,

I do agree with that *and* if the band is 40 meters *and* if the KPA100 is
not the latest design T/R switch it is entirely possible that there could be
a spurious response above the 40 meter band during the time it takes to do
the antenna tuning - this may cause the ATU to tune the antenna somewhere
above the 40 meter band.
There is also the possibility that RFC10 (on the back of the SO-239
jack) is coupling with the base K2 - and that condition is worse if the
shield is the older one with a wide notch above the SO-239 jack and no
solder lugs from the SO-239 jack to the top of the shield. I am not saying
that the problem is restricted to 40 meters, only that it is more apparent
on 40 than on other bands.

If the KPA100 has the older red core toroids at L15 and L16, it should be
updated with the KPA100MDKT because that mod was created to address exactly
that problem.
If the shield needs updated, the KPA100SHLDKT is available.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/20/2016 2:38 PM, ab2tc wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I can think of one other *possible* explanation, although far fetched.
> If the K2 transmitter has excessive harmonics or parasitics, this
> could
happen.
> The out of band energy is readily absorbed by the dummy load but not
> by the tuned load presented by the LDG tuner. The antenna analyzer
> should easily resolve this.
>
>

______________________________________________________________
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Don Wilhelm

Re: K2 automatic tuner

In reply to this post by William Lagerberg

William,

It is beginning to look like either the tuner or the antenna is the problem.
Don't overlook the possibility that something has come loose or shorted
in your antenna. Baluns can go bad, especially if they get moisture inside.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/20/2016 3:18 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Ok Don and Knut,
>
> Its getting better :-)
>
> I tryed a antenne analyzer, gives me the same as my K2, so I think K2 is
> fine.
> The AT-100 ( just bought it second hand, has two antenna connectors wich I
> can switch. Put a dummy on the other port then switched an tune the dummy 20
> 1.0 - 1 so looks ok
>