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K2 noise

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richard gilley-2

K2 noise

With so much talk on the K3 noise, AGC etc I thought I would ask if
the following is normal on a K2. Or do I have an issue with my build
6732.
This K2 has the KSUB SSB and KPA100 additions.
With only battery power and ear phone connected; AGC off: AF fully
clockwise; RF gain fully ccw; cw mode; fltr settings 200,400, or 700.
any band, I hear a definite constant, fairly low level, hash.

With RF gail fully clockwise and AF gain fully ccw, no hash is heard
until AF gain is advanced from 7 o'clock to about 8 o'clock.

Would this be considered normal or do I have another issue to look into?

Best regards
Dick AD1G
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K2 noise

Dick,

That is probably normal - you are hearing the internal receiver noise.
It should be at a fairly low level - you said it was, but I can't relate
to your perception of just how low or loud that may be. If you are
using very sensitive headphones, it will be apparent at a lower setting
of the AF Gain than would be heard with less sensitive headphones.
All I can say for certain is that when I am working on a K2, I normally
plug my computer Line-in cable into the headphone jack (mainly so I can
see the trace on Spectrogram), and as a result I hear the K2 audio in
the computer speakers - I can usually hear the internal receiver white
noise 'hiss' with the AF Gain set somewhere near the 8 o'clock position
- but I can change that point easily by adjusting the gain control on th
epowered computer speakers.

You said you had AGC off - and yes AGC can influence how loud the
internal noise appears to be.

In the K2 (after SN 3000), there is an AGC Threshold pot on the Control
Board, and the most sensitive setting for that control is at the point
where activating the AGC does not *substantially* reduce that internal
receiver noise. It will reduce the internal noise a bit, and that exact
threshold setting will vary from K2 to K2 - the initial 3.80 volt
setting is not a "one size fits all" setting - the manual alludes to the
fact that it could be refined by saying "but it can be adjusted later to
suite the operator." The manual does not further explain how to
determine that setting.
Be AWARE - the AGC Threshold must be set before adjusting the S-meter,
and the S-meter must be calibrated after changing the Threshold. A
Threshold setting below about 3.65 volts may not allow one to adjust the
S-meter properly.

73,
Don W3FPR

richard gilley wrote:

> With so much talk on the K3 noise, AGC etc I thought I would ask if
> the following is normal on a K2. Or do I have an issue with my build
> 6732.
> This K2 has the KSUB SSB and KPA100 additions.
> With only battery power and ear phone connected; AGC off: AF fully
> clockwise; RF gain fully ccw; cw mode; fltr settings 200,400, or 700.
> any band, I hear a definite constant, fairly low level, hash.
>
> With RF gail fully clockwise and AF gain fully ccw, no hash is heard
> until AF gain is advanced from 7 o'clock to about 8 o'clock.
>
> Would this be considered normal or do I have another issue to look into?
>
> Best regards
> Dick AD1G
> ______________________________________________________________
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Mike Harris

Re: K2 noise

In reply to this post by richard gilley-2

Hi Dick,

The KAF2 removes a lot of hf hash from the audio and makes listening
to SSB much nicer. An essential module I would say and many prefer
it over the more fancy and expensive KDSP2.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO

----- Original Message -----
From: "richard gilley" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:06 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K2 noise

> With so much talk on the K3 noise, AGC etc I thought I would ask
> if
> the following is normal on a K2. Or do I have an issue with my
> build
> 6732.
> This K2 has the KSUB SSB and KPA100 additions.
> With only battery power and ear phone connected; AGC off: AF fully
> clockwise; RF gain fully ccw; cw mode; fltr settings 200,400, or
> 700.
> any band, I hear a definite constant, fairly low level, hash.
>
> With RF gail fully clockwise and AF gain fully ccw, no hash is
> heard
> until AF gain is advanced from 7 o'clock to about 8 o'clock.
>
> Would this be considered normal or do I have another issue to look
> into?
>
> Best regards
> Dick AD1G

Guy, K2AV

Re: K2 noise

In reply to this post by richard gilley-2

You did not say whether the PREamp was engaged. Without it, the
internal noise is very low, and SHOULD be there to a mild degree.
WITHOUT the preamp, AGC off, it takes to about noon for moderate noise
audio. WITH the preamp, AGC off it takes to about 9 oclock for
moderate noise audio. What I hear I call hiss, not hash.

If you engage the preamp you will normally hear significantly more
noise. This significantly more noise SHOULD be there. It's a preamp,
and a "quiet preamp" is the holy grail. A good preamp will increase
the noise as you hear it, but it will increase the signal more.

People use widely varying words to describe ""noise"". Here I would
ask whether you are hearing hash versus hiss. Hiss sounds smooth but
is noise. Hash as a noise has edgy or gritty components to it that
are typically related to 60 Hz, 120 hz, or sometimes odd switching
power supply. But on battery, as you describe, I hear only a hiss.

At one point replacing the battery, I did something to the speaker
(twisted it) where something was making contact as the cone vibrated,
which added a hash-sounding element to speaker audio that was not in
phones audio. I was able to twist it out.

I have gotten hash off of a couple power supplies. Still the best and
quietest is my ancient (20 years?) 3 amp Rak Shak 22-120A which powers
the K2 with a trickle charge float voltage that keeps the battery
topped off when K2 is off and will power 15 watts without complaint.

73, Guy

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 10:06 AM, richard gilley <[hidden email]> wrote:

Johnny Siu

Re： K2 noise

In reply to this post by Mike Harris

Hi Mike,

I agree with you. I sold my KDSP2 in return for a KAF2. The DSP functions in KDSP2 are just primitive when compared with modern DSP rigs (e.g. K3).

I got my KAF2 in the second hand market at a much lower price. Of course, KAF2 is even more primitive but it is real cheap. You just pay the price for an internal clock but with additional filter function.

I played around the KDSP2 with different settings (including the default one) but the results were nothing encouraging. Yes, it did function as it was advertised but the artifact was annoying. I am now happy with my KAF2 (just a fraction of the price of KDSP2 in the second hand market).

73

Johnny Siu VR2XMC

----- 郵件原件 ----
寄件人﹕ Mike Harris <[hidden email]>
收件人﹕ [hidden email]; richard gilley <[hidden email]>
傳送日期﹕ 2010/2/4 (四) 12:38:07 AM
主題： Re: [Elecraft] K2 noise

Hi Dick,

The KAF2 removes a lot of hf hash from the audio and makes listening
to SSB much nicer. An essential module I would say and many prefer
it over the more fancy and expensive KDSP2.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO

----- Original Message -----
From: "richard gilley" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:06 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K2 noise

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richard gilley-2

Re: Re： K2 noise

Thank you all for your candid response. I think I am going to forget
about it.
Best regards
Dick
On Feb 3, 2010, at 5:57 PM, Johnny Siu wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> I agree with you. I sold my KDSP2 in return for a KAF2. The DSP
> functions in KDSP2 are just primitive when compared with modern DSP
> rigs (e.g. K3).
>
> I got my KAF2 in the second hand market at a much lower price. Of
> course, KAF2 is even more primitive but it is real cheap. You just
> pay the price for an internal clock but with additional filter
> function.
>
> I played around the KDSP2 with different settings (including the
> default one) but the results were nothing encouraging. Yes, it did
> function as it was advertised but the artifact was annoying. I am
> now happy with my KAF2 (just a fraction of the price of KDSP2 in
> the second hand market).
>
> 73
>
> Johnny Siu VR2XMC
>
>
>
> ----- 郵件原件 ----
> 寄件人﹕ Mike Harris <[hidden email]>
> 收件人﹕ [hidden email]; richard gilley
> <[hidden email]>
> 傳送日期﹕ 2010/2/4 (四) 12:38:07 AM
> 主題： Re: [Elecraft] K2 noise
>
> Hi Dick,
>
> The KAF2 removes a lot of hf hash from the audio and makes listening
> to SSB much nicer. An essential module I would say and many prefer
> it over the more fancy and expensive KDSP2.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike VP8NO
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "richard gilley" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:06 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] K2 noise
>
>
>> With so much talk on the K3 noise, AGC etc I thought I would ask
>> if
>> the following is normal on a K2. Or do I have an issue with my
>> build
>> 6732.
>> This K2 has the KSUB SSB and KPA100 additions.
>> With only battery power and ear phone connected; AGC off: AF fully
>> clockwise; RF gain fully ccw; cw mode; fltr settings 200,400, or
>> 700.
>> any band, I hear a definite constant, fairly low level, hash.
>>
>> With RF gail fully clockwise and AF gain fully ccw, no hash is
>> heard
>> until AF gain is advanced from 7 o'clock to about 8 o'clock.
>>
>> Would this be considered normal or do I have another issue to look
>> into?
>>
>> Best regards
>> Dick AD1G
>
>
> Yahoo!香港提供網上安全攻略，教你如何防範黑
> 客! 請前往 http://hk.promo.yahoo.com/security/ 了解更多!
>

Bill K9YEQ

Re: Re： K2 noise

I have both. Each has different results. The DSP unit has many settings and it takes a bit of time to set your personal setttings. I use both, sometimes together or one or the other. The best thing about the DSP is you have an infinite amount of settings. This, of course, can be undaunting without alot of patience.

Bill
K9YEQ
KX1, K2, K3, THP HL2.5Kfx

> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:22:18 -0500
> To: [hidden email]
> CC: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re： K2 noise
>
> Thank you all for your candid response. I think I am going to forget
> about it.
> Best regards
> Dick
> On Feb 3, 2010, at 5:57 PM, Johnny Siu wrote:
>
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > I agree with you. I sold my KDSP2 in return for a KAF2. The DSP
> > functions in KDSP2 are just primitive when compared with modern DSP
> > rigs (e.g. K3).
> >
> > I got my KAF2 in the second hand market at a much lower price. Of
> > course, KAF2 is even more primitive but it is real cheap. You just
> > pay the price for an internal clock but with additional filter
> > function.
> >
> > I played around the KDSP2 with different settings (including the
> > default one) but the results were nothing encouraging. Yes, it did
> > function as it was advertised but the artifact was annoying. I am
> > now happy with my KAF2 (just a fraction of the price of KDSP2 in
> > the second hand market).
> >
> > 73
> >
> > Johnny Siu VR2XMC
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- 郵件原件 ----
> > 寄件人﹕ Mike Harris <[hidden email]>
> > 收件人﹕ [hidden email]; richard gilley
> > <[hidden email]>
> > 傳送日期﹕ 2010/2/4 (四) 12:38:07 AM
> > 主題： Re: [Elecraft] K2 noise
> >
> > Hi Dick,
> >
> > The KAF2 removes a lot of hf hash from the audio and makes listening
> > to SSB much nicer. An essential module I would say and many prefer
> > it over the more fancy and expensive KDSP2.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Mike VP8NO
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "richard gilley" <[hidden email]>
> > To: <[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:06 PM
> > Subject: [Elecraft] K2 noise
> >
> >
> >> With so much talk on the K3 noise, AGC etc I thought I would ask
> >> if
> >> the following is normal on a K2. Or do I have an issue with my
> >> build
> >> 6732.
> >> This K2 has the KSUB SSB and KPA100 additions.
> >> With only battery power and ear phone connected; AGC off: AF fully
> >> clockwise; RF gain fully ccw; cw mode; fltr settings 200,400, or
> >> 700.
> >> any band, I hear a definite constant, fairly low level, hash.
> >>
> >> With RF gail fully clockwise and AF gain fully ccw, no hash is
> >> heard
> >> until AF gain is advanced from 7 o'clock to about 8 o'clock.
> >>
> >> Would this be considered normal or do I have another issue to look
> >> into?
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >> Dick AD1G
> >
> >
> > Yahoo!香港提供網上安全攻略，教你如何防範黑
> > 客! 請前往 http://hk.promo.yahoo.com/security/ 了解更多!
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Johnny Siu

KAF2 / KDSP2 (was : K2 noise)

Hello Bill,

To my knowledge, K2 can either use KAF2 or KDSP2 but not both at a time. Did you do any modification to K2 so that both units can be used at the same time?

73

Johnny Siu

________________________________
寄件人﹕ Bill Johnson <[hidden email]>
收件人﹕ [hidden email]; [hidden email]
副本(CC) [hidden email]
傳送日期﹕ 2010/2/4 (四) 12:26:06 PM
主題： RE: [Elecraft] Re： K2 noise

I have both. Each has different results. The DSP unit has many settings and it takes a bit of time to set your personal setttings. I use both, sometimes together or one or the other. The best thing about the DSP is you have an infinite amount of settings. This, of course, can be undaunting without alot of patience.

Bill
K9YEQ
KX1, K2, K3, THP HL2.5Kfx

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Bill K9YEQ

Re: KAF2 / KDSP2 (was : K2 noise)

Johnny,

My apologies, I misread thinking it was a KNB2. I use that and the DSP unit together. I have a KAF2 which I am not using and find that the flexibility of the DSP unit is greater. For some reason I was more focused on noise.

Bill
K9YEQ
KX1, K2, K3, THP HL2.5Kfx

Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:50:04 +0800
From: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] KAF2 / KDSP2 (was : K2 noise)
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
CC: [hidden email]

Hello Bill,

To my knowledge, K2 can either use KAF2 or KDSP2 but not both at a time. Did you do any modification to K2 so that both units can be used at the same time?

73

Johnny Siu

寄件人﹕ Bill Johnson <[hidden email]>
收件人﹕ [hidden email]; [hidden email]
副本(CC) [hidden email]
傳送日期﹕ 2010/2/4 (四) 12:26:06 PM
主題： RE: [Elecraft] Re： K2 noise

I have both. Each has different results. The DSP unit has many settings and it takes a bit of time to set your personal setttings. I use both, sometimes together or one or the other. The best thing about the DSP is you have an infinite amount of settings. This, of course, can be undaunting without alot of patience.

Bill
K9YEQ
KX1, K2, K3, THP HL2.5Kfx

protection. Sign up now.

Yahoo!香港提供網上安全攻略，教你如何防範黑客!了解更多
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