K2 plus N1MM logger in CW

[DL6OAP]

Hi all,

I was thinking about using my K2 with KIO2 interface together with an existing N1MM logger installation in the CQWW contest this weekend. My understanding is that N1MM does not directly support sending the KY command to the rig's control interface.

However, I found some hints about directly keying a KX3 without any additional interface by wrapping the "KY" command in N1MM's CATA1ASC command inside a function key macro. I have not checked in detail but my feeling is that KX3 and K2 use the same command structure for CW keying with the KY command.

Will this approach work with a K2 as well?

Will the "special serial cable" work with a serial to USB adapter?

Has anyone tried this already?



Greetings

Ralf

DL6OAP

[Don Wilhelm-4]

Ralf,

I cannot answer your N1MM question, but I can answer with certainty
about the K2 'special cable' -
Yes, the 'computer' end of that cable can be plugged into a USB to
serial adapter.
Just do *not* plug the adapter directly into the K2 AUX IO connector.

You may find some USB to serial adapters that will not work well at the
slower 4800 baud rate used by the K2.  Try to find one with an FTDI chipset.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/25/2014 7:24 AM, DL6OAP wrote:
> Will the "special serial cable" work with a serial to USB adapter?
>
>

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[DL6OAP]

Thanks for the replies (also to Dave and Pete who replied off the list).

I am aware of the approach that keys the K2 with the one transistor-circuit using the CTS/DTS control line, but will be running a small netbook under WindowsXP - mainly because this computer produces less rf noise than my other two - so I am not sure if I will have the latency issue or not. I always liked the Winkeyer solution more (I have a Microkeyer interface, but no cable for linking the MK to the K2)

But it is worth trying. When I got the K2, I used the parallel port of my old laptop (with CT software, I think) with a similar one-transistor circuit for keying, but was not completely satisfied - using this K2remote tool from the Elecraft webpage (using the "KY method"), the keying sounded much better to me.
 
In my understanding, sending just the textstrings to the KIO-interface and let the K2 form the dots and dashes should be closest to the Winkeyer solution, and would only use ressources that I already have.

 I think I will test the macros on the KX3 first and then try my USB-serial adapter with the K2 (the adapter works with a rather old Garmin Geko handheld GPS, am not sure about the Baud-rate, but I think it also is at 4800). If this is not working, I will try the "CTS/DTS method"...

Greetings

Ralf, DL6OAP
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[Byron Servies]

Knowing now that Elecraft radios with IO interfaces have the ability to
send CW without an external box, why would anyone bother with external
electronics?

My K2 sounds great to me, as the operator, when using a paddle. When using
a winkey it sounds awful. I would much rather have my logger just send the
message to the radio for it to send.

73, Byron N6NUL

On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Ralf Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Thanks for the replies (also to Dave and Pete who replied off the list).
>
> I am aware of the approach that keys the K2 with the one
> transistor-circuit using the CTS/DTS control line, but will be running a
> small netbook under WindowsXP - mainly because this computer produces less
> rf noise than my other two - so I am not sure if I will have the latency
> issue or not. I always liked the Winkeyer solution more (I have a
> Microkeyer interface, but no cable for linking the MK to the K2)
>
> But it is worth trying. When I got the K2, I used the parallel port of my
> old laptop (with CT software, I think) with a similar one-transistor
> circuit for keying, but was not completely satisfied - using this K2remote
> tool from the Elecraft webpage (using the "KY method"), the keying sounded
> much better to me.
>
> In my understanding, sending just the textstrings to the KIO-interface and
> let the K2 form the dots and dashes should be closest to the Winkeyer
> solution, and would only use ressources that I already have.
>
>  I think I will test the macros on the KX3 first and then try my
> USB-serial adapter with the K2 (the adapter works with a rather old Garmin
> Geko handheld GPS, am not sure about the Baud-rate, but I think it also is
> at 4800). If this is not working, I will try the "CTS/DTS method"...
>

--
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org
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[Jim Brown-10]

On Tue,11/25/2014 9:09 AM, Byron Servies wrote:
> My K2 sounds great to me, as the operator, when using a paddle. When using
> a winkey it sounds awful. I would much rather have my logger just send the
> message to the radio for it to send.

When your CW speed gets faster, you'll understand. The issue is how N1MM
sends CW on the serial port, which can get choppy when it is interrupted
by other software running on your computer. WinKey is a very good way to
send CW from a computer. It works quite well for me.

At low speeds, and under the "right" conditions on the computer, you can
send CW on the DTR pin of the serial port. It even works with USB to
RS232 adapters. You need a simple transistor inverter to convert the
keying signal to a short between the keying line and the chassis.
Collector to keying line, emitter to chassis, DTR through 4.7K to the base.

73, Jim K9YC
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[k6dgw]

On 11/25/2014 4:24 AM, DL6OAP wrote:

> However, I found some hints about directly keying a KX3 without any
> additional interface by wrapping the "KY" command in N1MM's CATA1ASC command
> inside a function key macro. I have not checked in detail but my feeling is
> that KX3 and K2 use the same command structure for CW keying with the KY
> command.

True.  You can use the CATA1ASC command in any N1MM function key macro
to send commands ... any commands you want.  For SS SSB, I record my CQ
and exchange in the K3 DVK memory and then use the function keys to send
SWTxx commands to emulate tapping the M1 or M2 keys.
>
> Will this approach work with a K2 as well?

I believe so.
>
> Will the "special serial cable" work with a serial to USB adapter?

Yes.  Be aware however that the 9-pin D connector on the back of the K2
is *NOT* an RS-232 serial port.  3 pins [Gnd, RX data, and TX data] are
RS-232 levels.  The other pins are not.  Do not plug the USB-serial
adapter directly into the K2 port.
>
> Has anyone tried this already?

Yes, and it works fine, subject to the usual disclaimers about Prolific
vs FTDI vs Chinese knock-off USB adapters.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org

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[Chester Alderman]

This is one of the very few times I have to disagree with Jim! N1MM and NL+
keys my K3 flawlessly up to about 95 wpm. Having been a QRQ operator,
running speeds up to 120 wpm, stuttering CW is something I just can't stand.
If one is using the Windows operating system, YOU MUST GO INTO THE OPERATING
SYSTEM AND TURN OFF WINDOWS GENERATED SOUNDS!! For about the 30th time, the
reason for that is because when Windows generates its internal sounds, the
CPU first SHUTS OFF THE I/O PORTS, generates the operating system sounds,
then turns the I/O ports ON again; and that is why Windows generated CW
'stutters'. Shut off the Windows sounds generation and the CW output will be
as clean and stutter free as any external purchased CW generator.

73,
Tom - W4BQF



-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 12:29 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 plus N1MM logger in CW

On Tue,11/25/2014 9:09 AM, Byron Servies wrote:
> My K2 sounds great to me, as the operator, when using a paddle. When
> using a winkey it sounds awful. I would much rather have my logger
> just send the message to the radio for it to send.

When your CW speed gets faster, you'll understand. The issue is how N1MM
sends CW on the serial port, which can get choppy when it is interrupted by
other software running on your computer. WinKey is a very good way to send
CW from a computer. It works quite well for me.

At low speeds, and under the "right" conditions on the computer, you can
send CW on the DTR pin of the serial port. It even works with USB to
RS232 adapters. You need a simple transistor inverter to convert the keying
signal to a short between the keying line and the chassis.
Collector to keying line, emitter to chassis, DTR through 4.7K to the base.

73, Jim K9YC
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[Jim Brown-10]

Thanks. I'll try that.

73, Jim

On Tue,11/25/2014 10:51 AM, Chester Alderman wrote:
> This is one of the very few times I have to disagree with Jim! N1MM and NL+
> keys my K3 flawlessly up to about 95 wpm. Having been a QRQ operator,
> running speeds up to 120 wpm, stuttering CW is something I just can't stand.
> If one is using the Windows operating system, YOU MUST GO INTO THE OPERATING
> SYSTEM AND TURN OFF WINDOWS GENERATED SOUNDS!!

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[DL6OAP]

Hi all,

Many thanks to all who replied. I updated N1MM logger to the most recent version, re-edited the macros in the manner described by K4MTX in his blog (who did it for the KX3) and it seems to work with the K2 as well.

There seems to be enough space in the connectors of the "pseudo-serial" cable for the one-transistor keying circuit, so I will add it to the cable later and see how well this works - with the system sounds off.

I hope, I have the date right - happy Thanksgving!

Greetings

Ralf, DL 6OAP

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

One of the N1MM+ developers solved a CW stutter problem today for one of
our users, which was caused by latency in a USB-to-serial adapter.  The
solution was to make sure you're using an FTDI adapter, and go direct to
the manufacturer for the latest version of the driver.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 11/25/2014 2:58 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> Thanks. I'll try that.
>
> 73, Jim
>
> On Tue,11/25/2014 10:51 AM, Chester Alderman wrote:
>> This is one of the very few times I have to disagree with Jim! N1MM
>> and NL+
>> keys my K3 flawlessly up to about 95 wpm. Having been a QRQ operator,
>> running speeds up to 120 wpm, stuttering CW is something I just can't
>> stand.
>> If one is using the Windows operating system, YOU MUST GO INTO THE
>> OPERATING
>> SYSTEM AND TURN OFF WINDOWS GENERATED SOUNDS!!
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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['DGB']

Anyone using a K3 with the Palstar AT-AUTO antenna tuner. How do you
hook it up? A y-cable? I don't want to lose rig control.


73 Dwight NS9I


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[Chester Alderman]

Also there was a note on NL+ reflector suggesting that when using a
USB/Serial adapter as the interface between the PC and the radio, one should
change some parameters.
Open Windows Device Manager and select the Ports (COM & LPT), select your
COM port, then Port Settings, then Advanced. Change both Rx and Tx (Bytes)
to 64. Then drop down to Latency Timer and set that to 1ms.
Unfortunately I don't recall who posted this information, but it is supposed
to make your USB/Serial adapter function faster.

73,
Tom - W4BQF


-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Pete
Smith N4ZR
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 4:40 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 plus N1MM logger in CW

One of the N1MM+ developers solved a CW stutter problem today for one of our
users, which was caused by latency in a USB-to-serial adapter.  The solution
was to make sure you're using an FTDI adapter, and go direct to the
manufacturer for the latest version of the driver.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 11/25/2014 2:58 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> Thanks. I'll try that.
>
> 73, Jim
>
> On Tue,11/25/2014 10:51 AM, Chester Alderman wrote:
>> This is one of the very few times I have to disagree with Jim! N1MM
>> and NL+ keys my K3 flawlessly up to about 95 wpm. Having been a QRQ
>> operator, running speeds up to 120 wpm, stuttering CW is something I
>> just can't stand.
>> If one is using the Windows operating system, YOU MUST GO INTO THE
>> OPERATING SYSTEM AND TURN OFF WINDOWS GENERATED SOUNDS!!
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]
>

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[Jim Brown-10]

On Wed,11/26/2014 1:40 PM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
> One of the N1MM+ developers solved a CW stutter problem today for one
> of our users, which was caused by latency in a USB-to-serial adapter.  
> The solution was to make sure you're using an FTDI adapter, and go
> direct to the manufacturer for the latest version of the driver.

Thanks Pete. I'm using real hardware serial ports, usually provided by a
Quatech 2-port PCMCIA adapter that I've used for nearly 10 years. I also
use hardware serial ports located in docking stations for Thinkpad laptops.

73, Jim K9YC
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