K2 power setting for SSB QRP?

[TF3KX]

I would like to establish the "correct" setting for transmitting proper QRP SSB signals from my K2.

I have seen earlier discussions on the definition of QRP for SSB signals, where the majority seem to set it at 10W PEP (presumably close to 5W average power), while a few adhere strictly to the notion that no more than 5W should enter the antenna terminals at any time.

At any rate, this brings me to the question:  If I adjust the power level of my K2 to, say, 5W, using the power knob, will the rig then actually send out SSB at 5W PEP, 5W average, or something else?

73 - Kristinn, TF3KX

[Julian, G4ILO]

TF3KX wrote

I would like to establish the "correct" setting for transmitting proper QRP SSB signals from my K2.

I have seen earlier discussions on the definition of QRP for SSB signals, where the majority seem to set it at 10W PEP (presumably close to 5W average power), while a few adhere strictly to the notion that no more than 5W should enter the antenna terminals at any time.

At any rate, this brings me to the question:  If I adjust the power level of my K2 to, say, 5W, using the power knob, will the rig then actually send out SSB at 5W PEP, 5W average, or something else?

73 - Kristinn, TF3KX

I think QRP can be whatever you want it to be, unless you are competing in a contest QRP category or collecting contacts for a QRP award, in which case it is whatever the rules say it is (which may differ from one contest / award to another.) I came across an article once, probably written a few years ago, that suggested anything up to 100W was QRP. I don't think many of today's QRPers would accept that definition, though.

As to your question, if you set the control of your K2 (or K3 for that matter) to 5W then the peak power should be limited to 5W, plus or minus the limits of error of the power metering and the ALC. Personally I set my K2 for 10W for SSB, and with the compression at 3 could light up all the green segments on speech peaks.

[Paul-285]

>it is whatever the rules say it is (which may differ from one contest /
>award to another.)

Yeah, it's generally around 5 Watts for CW and some allow it to go up
to 10 Watts for SSB, but some stay at 5 Watts even for SSB.




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[w7aqk]

Most QRP contests have a QRP limit of 5 watts for both CW and SSB.  I know
the ARRL does that.  ARCI, and I think GQRP, had QRP on SSB limited to 10
watts, I think in an attempt to account for the disparity between the two
modes.  Actually, I think they have it right, but to be safe in a contest
you should probably observe the 5 watt limit on SSB as well as CW.  But you
won't get any flack from me about running 10 watts and claiming to be QRP,
or even 20 watts for that matter, in a QSO situation.  At those slightly
higher power levels you are still observing the rule of moderation in my
view.

In a way, it seems to me that if we really were to get "picky" about what
QRP really is, we should adopt a rule similar to what they used to do for
repeaters, and use ERP.  The antenna you are using plays such an important
role in what you are really pumping into the ether.  If one 5 watt station
is using a random wire, and the other is using a 3 element beam at 65 feet,
it's hard to say they are equivalent!  People with marginal, or at least
"non-gain" antennas, are always at something of a disadvantage.  But it's a
disparity that could actually be accounted for to a degree in contests if
they really wanted to make the playing field more level.  It's probably
heresy to even suggest this, but on Field Day for example, you could allow
stations using non-gain antennas to increase power somewhat, or have
stations using gain antennas reduce power based on the "standard" DBd rating
for the antenna being used.  There wouldn't be anything precise about it,
but it would sure get things closer.  Maybe to simplify things you could
just say a station using a non-gain antenna could run 10 watts.  That would
be a bit more fair at least.  But I realize "it ain't gonna happen"!  And,
of course, you have the same issue with the QRO folks.

The point is that the rules are very strict about power limitations, but
they let people go nuts as to what antennas they use.  That effectively
makes the power limitation moot!  And, as we all know, some stations do go
to incredibly elaborate lengths as to their antenna systems.  But I'm just
out there for the fun of it anyway, so I say more "power" to them!  How's
that for a play on words!

Dave W7AQK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:47 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K2 power setting for SSB QRP?


>it is whatever the rules say it is (which may differ from one contest /
>award to another.)

Yeah, it's generally around 5 Watts for CW and some allow it to go up
to 10 Watts for SSB, but some stay at 5 Watts even for SSB.

------------------

The 'normal' (if anything is normal about Ham radio) QRP power level has
been defined over the past half century by the QRP Amateur Radio Club
International or "QRP ARCI".

Their bylaws, Article 1, section B states:

"QRP operation for QRP-ARCI purposes is defined as operation with a
transmitter power output of 5 watts or less for CW (Continuous Wave - A1)
and 10 watts PEP or less for SSB (Single Side Band - A3J).  QRP-ARCI awards
are based on these output levels."

Many contests and other organizations have followed these guidelines.

Bear in mind that what's considered QRP has changed over time. Back in the
1950's QRP was defined as 50 watts input to the final amplifier. That
normally resulted in between 30 and 40 watts RF output for a "legal" QRP
transmitter.

Times change, Hi!

The organized QRP movement began in the 50's as a rebuttal to the idea that
several hundred watts, perhaps even a kilowatt, was needed to really enjoy
Ham radio. A great many Hams ran 50 watts or less, and the organization
recognized their ability and the fact that they didn't need more power to be
very successful communicators.

In more recent years, my personal interest in QRP has not been in the low
power itself, but because that's where the bulk of today's homebrewers,
technicians and tinkerers hang out.

Ron AC7AC



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[.k8dd.-2]

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Yarnes" <[hidden email]>
To: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 power setting for SSB QRP?


> Most QRP contests have a QRP limit of 5 watts for both CW and SSB.  I know
> the ARRL does that.  ARCI, and I think GQRP, had QRP on SSB limited to 10
> watts, I think in an attempt to account for the disparity between the two
> modes


QRP-ARCI defines QRP as:

QRP operation for QRP-ARCI purposes is defined as operation with a
transmitter power output of 5 watts or less (CW)(A1) and 10 watts PEP or
less (SSB)(A3J). QRP-ARCI awards are based on these output levels.

.
I believe most other QRP organizations agree with this, although there are
some groups / contests that specify that SSB QRP is 5 watts (or less) output
on all modes.  As far as I know, no one uses the well discussed (and
sometimes over discussed!) use of ERP in QRP power levels.

72  73    Hank    K8DD

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[TF3KX]

Thanks, everyone.  I am still working on the presumption that 5W output for CW and 10W PEP output for SSB would be acceptable for my purposes of award gathering and contesting, as I already pointed out in my initial post.  I justify this even further with the fact that my antennas are mediocre at best, typically random wires or a temporary dipole at best.

But my question was specifically on the K2 and how it controls its output power.  So, again, I presume the K2/KAT2 power regulating circuitry guarantees that:

- if I set my power level at 5W my CW key-down output power will actually be 5W
- if I set my power level at 10W my SSB PEP output power will actually be 10W (avg power somewhat less)

...or relatively close to this.  Right?

73 - Kristinn, TF3KX

hank k8dd wrote

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Yarnes" <[e-mail]>
To: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[e-mail]>; <[e-mail]>
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 power setting for SSB QRP?


> Most QRP contests have a QRP limit of 5 watts for both CW and SSB.  I know
> the ARRL does that.  ARCI, and I think GQRP, had QRP on SSB limited to 10
> watts, I think in an attempt to account for the disparity between the two
> modes


QRP-ARCI defines QRP as:

QRP operation for QRP-ARCI purposes is defined as operation with a
transmitter power output of 5 watts or less (CW)(A1) and 10 watts PEP or
less (SSB)(A3J). QRP-ARCI awards are based on these output levels.

.
I believe most other QRP organizations agree with this, although there are
some groups / contests that specify that SSB QRP is 5 watts (or less) output
on all modes.  As far as I know, no one uses the well discussed (and
sometimes over discussed!) use of ERP in QRP power levels.

72  73    Hank    K8DD

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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Kristinn,

If you have properly calibrated the wattmeter (balanced it according to
the manual and made the R1 adjustment with respect to a known good power
meter), then yes the peak power developed by the K2 should be equal to
the power setting.  The accuracy is only as good as the external meter
used when calibration the KAT2.

73,
Don Wilhelm

TF3KX wrote:

> Thanks, everyone.  I am still working on the presumption that 5W output for
> CW and 10W PEP output for SSB would be acceptable for my purposes of award
> gathering and contesting, as I already pointed out in my initial post.  I
> justify this even further with the fact that my antennas are mediocre at
> best, typically random wires or a temporary dipole at best.
>
> But my question was specifically on the K2 and how it controls its output
> power.  So, again, I presume the K2/KAT2 power regulating circuitry
> guarantees that:
>
> - if I set my power level at 5W my CW key-down output power will actually be
> 5W
> - if I set my power level at 10W my SSB PEP output power will actually be
> 10W (avg power somewhat less)
>
> ...or relatively close to this.  Right?
>
> 73 - Kristinn, TF3KX
>
>
>
> hank  k8dd wrote:
>  
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Yarnes" <[hidden email]>
>> To: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:20 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 power setting for SSB QRP?
>>
>>
>>    
>>> Most QRP contests have a QRP limit of 5 watts for both CW and SSB.  I
>>> know
>>> the ARRL does that.  ARCI, and I think GQRP, had QRP on SSB limited to 10
>>> watts, I think in an attempt to account for the disparity between the two
>>> modes
>>>      
>> QRP-ARCI defines QRP as:
>>
>> QRP operation for QRP-ARCI purposes is defined as operation with a
>> transmitter power output of 5 watts or less (CW)(A1) and 10 watts PEP or
>> less (SSB)(A3J). QRP-ARCI awards are based on these output levels.
>>
>> .
>> I believe most other QRP organizations agree with this, although there are
>> some groups / contests that specify that SSB QRP is 5 watts (or less)
>> output
>> on all modes.  As far as I know, no one uses the well discussed (and
>> sometimes over discussed!) use of ERP in QRP power levels.
>>
>> 72  73    Hank    K8DD
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Post to: [hidden email]
>> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   
>>
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>>
>>
>>    
>
>  

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[W8JI]

> - if I set my power level at 5W my CW key-down output
> power will actually be
> 5W
> - if I set my power level at 10W my SSB PEP output power
> will actually be
> 10W (avg power somewhat less)
>
> ...or relatively close to this.  Right?


If SWR is very good.

To get the true power with a load mismatch you have to
subtract reflected power from forward power.



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