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K2 with KPA500 and KAT500 setup

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RobertG

K2 with KPA500 and KAT500 setup

I'm going to use my K2 for Field Day. In prep, I'm putting the K3 aside
and putting the K2 back in the station lineup in order to re-acquaint
myself with the its operation. Looking at the cabling diagrams in the
KPA500/KAT500 manuals, an RCA jack line from the K2 to the tuner and
another RCA jack line from the tuner to the amp looks pretty straight
forward. With this setup, do I disconnect the keying/integration cables
that normally connect the K3, KPA500 and KAT500? Assuming so, are there
any other aspects of using the K2 with the other K-Line units to which I
should pay attention? Thanks.

...robert
--
Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
[hidden email]
Syracuse, New York, USA
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W2RMS

K3 with KPA500 and KAT500 setup

Hello everyone!
Today i've finished my K-Line!
K3/100 with a P3/SVGA with a KAT500 with a KPA500 with a W2 (although W2 has not yet been put in line).
I think i got everything to play together nicely (not that its difficult, the way Elecraft makes it...)
I've put the KAT3 in "bypass" on all the bands that i'm using.
I've selected the per-band power setting.
I'm currently setting all bands to about 15 watts of drive and getting around 300W out to the antenna (a K4KIO HexBeam).
My question is about the operation of the tuner:
when does it actually auto-tune? When the Auto light is flashing or when the relays are clicking?
Sometimes it seems to start clicking right in the middle of a QSO. Is that normal? Does that interrupt my signal?
Is there a way to teach it using SCAN or something? Or do i have to PTT and talk into the mic on every frequency in order for it to memorize the LC values?
How do people normally do this?

Thanks a bunch in advance!

__________________
Slava (Sal) B, W2RMS
[hidden email]

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 with KPA500 and KAT500 setup

Slava,

You should "train" your tuner. Do it on each band segment for each
antenna that you will use.
Once that is accomplished, put the KAT500 into Manual and it will not
try to re-tune based on the RF.

The problem is particularly susceptible to false re-tuning for SSB. Due
to the changing amounts of RF in the transmitted speech patterns, if the
tuner is left in auto, if the forward power is measured when the RF is
low, and the reflected power is measured when the RF is higher, the
computation will yield a high SWR even though the SWR is OK.

The firmware developer is working on methods to reduce this exposure,
but in the meantime, "training" the tuner beforehand and running in
Manual mode will help substantially.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/8/2014 8:55 PM, Slava Baytalskiy wrote:

> Hello everyone!
> Today i've finished my K-Line!
> K3/100 with a P3/SVGA with a KAT500 with a KPA500 with a W2 (although W2 has not yet been put in line).
> I think i got everything to play together nicely (not that its difficult, the way Elecraft makes it...)
> I've put the KAT3 in "bypass" on all the bands that i'm using.
> I've selected the per-band power setting.
> I'm currently setting all bands to about 15 watts of drive and getting around 300W out to the antenna (a K4KIO HexBeam).
> My question is about the operation of the tuner:
> when does it actually auto-tune? When the Auto light is flashing or when the relays are clicking?
> Sometimes it seems to start clicking right in the middle of a QSO. Is that normal? Does that interrupt my signal?
> Is there a way to teach it using SCAN or something? Or do i have to PTT and talk into the mic on every frequency in order for it to memorize the LC values?
> How do people normally do this?
>
>

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Cady, Fred

Re: K3 with KPA500 and KAT500 setup (Training the KAT500)

In reply to this post by W2RMS

Hi Sal,
Here is a method to train your KAT500:

Here is a procedure to set-up the tuner for all bands so that you do not have to go through a Full Search Tuning cycle each time you change to a frequency or band that requires retuning.
* Select the desired band on the K3 and find a clear starting frequency near the bottom of the band.
* If you are using the KPA500 amplifier, tap OPER to put the amp into STBY mode.
* Set up your K3 so it will output between 20 and 100 watts when holding TUNE.
* If you are using basic band switching, tap your key to allow the tuner to measure the present band. You must do this before selecting an antenna. If using enhanced band switching, the tuner reads the band automatically.
* Tap the KAT500 ANT to select the required antenna.
* Tap the KAT500 MODE to select AUTO or MAN.
o Tap the KAT500 TUNE. The AUTO or MAN LED will start to flash.
o Hold the K3's TUNE to apply power to the KAT500 and it will find the best match that it can and then stop. The SWR LEDs will show the tuning progress and the tuner will stop clacking its relays when it finds the best VSWR.
o Tap the K3's TUNE to stop transmitting.
* After training the tuner, you should save the configuration file. If you have trouble with your tuner, the configuration file can be sent to Elecraft Support of in-depth analysis.

Hint: When training your tuner for various operating frequencies, it is useful and instructive to monitor the tuner's operation with the KAT Utility Operate screen.

After doing this on all your favorite frequencies, run the tuner in MAN mode to avoid the sometimes false tuning that occurs when running SSB in AUTO mode.

(Above is from Chapter 3 of "The Elecraft KPA500 Amplifier and KAT500 Tuner" by KE7X, now available from Elecraft part number E740244.)

Cheers and 73,
Fred KE7X

"The Elecraft K3: Design, Configuration and Operation 2nd ed"
"The Elecraft KX3 - Going for the summit"
"The Elecraft KPA500 and KAT500 - the K-Line Dream Station")
All now available from www.elecraft.com
and
KPA500 and KAT500 Quick Set Up Guide
http://www.ke7x.com/home/k-line-introduction-and-set-up-guide

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Slava Baytalskiy
> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2014 6:55 PM
> To: Elecraft
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 with KPA500 and KAT500 setup
>
> Hello everyone!
> Today i've finished my K-Line!
> K3/100 with a P3/SVGA with a KAT500 with a KPA500 with a W2 (although
> W2 has not yet been put in line).
> I think i got everything to play together nicely (not that its
> difficult, the way Elecraft makes it...) I've put the KAT3 in "bypass"
> on all the bands that i'm using.
> I've selected the per-band power setting.
> I'm currently setting all bands to about 15 watts of drive and getting
> around 300W out to the antenna (a K4KIO HexBeam).
> My question is about the operation of the tuner:
> when does it actually auto-tune? When the Auto light is flashing or
> when the relays are clicking?
> Sometimes it seems to start clicking right in the middle of a QSO. Is
> that normal? Does that interrupt my signal?
> Is there a way to teach it using SCAN or something? Or do i have to PTT
> and talk into the mic on every frequency in order for it to memorize
> the LC values?
> How do people normally do this?
>
> Thanks a bunch in advance!
>
> __________________
> Slava (Sal) B, W2RMS
> [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

W2RMS

Re: K3 with KPA500 and KAT500 setup (Training the KAT500)

Thanks, Fred!
This is what I was missing: the Tune button in the K3. Didn't realize it was there, since I was using the ATU Tune before I got the KAT/KPA500 installed.
I guess I should order the rest of your books (I got the K3 book long before I actually bought the rig).
And I did notice that on SSB sometimes it starts tuning for no apparent reason.

Thanks to all folks who responded!

Slava Baytalskiy
[hidden email]
W2RMS

On Jun 9, 2014, at 9:22 AM, "Cady, Fred" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Sal,
> Here is a method to train your KAT500:
>
> Here is a procedure to set-up the tuner for all bands so that you do not have to go through a Full Search Tuning cycle each time you change to a frequency or band that requires retuning.
> * Select the desired band on the K3 and find a clear starting frequency near the bottom of the band.
> * If you are using the KPA500 amplifier, tap OPER to put the amp into STBY mode.
> * Set up your K3 so it will output between 20 and 100 watts when holding TUNE.
> * If you are using basic band switching, tap your key to allow the tuner to measure the present band. You must do this before selecting an antenna. If using enhanced band switching, the tuner reads the band automatically.
> * Tap the KAT500 ANT to select the required antenna.
> * Tap the KAT500 MODE to select AUTO or MAN.
> o Tap the KAT500 TUNE. The AUTO or MAN LED will start to flash.
> o Hold the K3's TUNE to apply power to the KAT500 and it will find the best match that it can and then stop. The SWR LEDs will show the tuning progress and the tuner will stop clacking its relays when it finds the best VSWR.
> o Tap the K3's TUNE to stop transmitting.
> * After training the tuner, you should save the configuration file. If you have trouble with your tuner, the configuration file can be sent to Elecraft Support of in-depth analysis.
>
> Hint: When training your tuner for various operating frequencies, it is useful and instructive to monitor the tuner's operation with the KAT Utility Operate screen.
>
> After doing this on all your favorite frequencies, run the tuner in MAN mode to avoid the sometimes false tuning that occurs when running SSB in AUTO mode.
>
> (Above is from Chapter 3 of "The Elecraft KPA500 Amplifier and KAT500 Tuner" by KE7X, now available from Elecraft part number E740244.)
>
> Cheers and 73,
> Fred KE7X
>
> "The Elecraft K3: Design, Configuration and Operation 2nd ed"
> "The Elecraft KX3 - Going for the summit"
> "The Elecraft KPA500 and KAT500 - the K-Line Dream Station")
> All now available from www.elecraft.com
> and
> KPA500 and KAT500 Quick Set Up Guide
> http://www.ke7x.com/home/k-line-introduction-and-set-up-guide
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>> Slava Baytalskiy
>> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2014 6:55 PM
>> To: Elecraft
>> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 with KPA500 and KAT500 setup
>>
>> Hello everyone!
>> Today i've finished my K-Line!
>> K3/100 with a P3/SVGA with a KAT500 with a KPA500 with a W2 (although
>> W2 has not yet been put in line).
>> I think i got everything to play together nicely (not that its
>> difficult, the way Elecraft makes it...) I've put the KAT3 in "bypass"
>> on all the bands that i'm using.
>> I've selected the per-band power setting.
>> I'm currently setting all bands to about 15 watts of drive and getting
>> around 300W out to the antenna (a K4KIO HexBeam).
>> My question is about the operation of the tuner:
>> when does it actually auto-tune? When the Auto light is flashing or
>> when the relays are clicking?
>> Sometimes it seems to start clicking right in the middle of a QSO. Is
>> that normal? Does that interrupt my signal?
>> Is there a way to teach it using SCAN or something? Or do i have to PTT
>> and talk into the mic on every frequency in order for it to memorize
>> the LC values?
>> How do people normally do this?
>>
>> Thanks a bunch in advance!
>>
>> __________________
>> Slava (Sal) B, W2RMS
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Cady, Fred

Re: KPA500 and KAT500 setup (Training the KAT500)

Hello again on the training of the KAT500:
Don W3WPR points out that I forgot to mention that each band has segments for which you should find the tuner settings. The segment widths are:
Below 3 MHz -- 10 kHz
3MHz to 26 MHz -- 20 kHz
26 MHz to 38 MHz -- 100 kHz
38 MHz to 60 MHz -- 200 kHz
You should train the KAT500 on at least one frequency in each segment. For example, on 20 meters, start at about 14.010 and then move up the band in 20 kHz jumps to fully train the tuner for the entire band. Of course you don't have to train it for the whole band or every band if you don't operate on some frequencies.

73,
Fred KE7x

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Slava Baytalskiy [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 9:53 AM
> To: Cady, Fred
> Cc: Elecraft
> Subject: KPA500 and KAT500 setup (Training the KAT500)
>
> Thanks, Fred!
> This is what I was missing: the Tune button in the K3. Didn't realize
> it was there, since I was using the ATU Tune before I got the
> KAT/KPA500 installed.
> I guess I should order the rest of your books (I got the K3 book long
> before I actually bought the rig).
> And I did notice that on SSB sometimes it starts tuning for no apparent
> reason.
>
> Thanks to all folks who responded!
>
> Slava Baytalskiy
> [hidden email]
> W2RMS
>
> On Jun 9, 2014, at 9:22 AM, "Cady, Fred" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Sal,
> > Here is a method to train your KAT500:
> >
> > Here is a procedure to set-up the tuner for all bands so that you do
> not have to go through a Full Search Tuning cycle each time you change
> to a frequency or band that requires retuning.
> > * Select the desired band on the K3 and find a clear starting
> frequency near the bottom of the band.
> > * If you are using the KPA500 amplifier, tap OPER to put the amp
> into STBY mode.
> > * Set up your K3 so it will output between 20 and 100 watts when
> holding TUNE.
> > * If you are using basic band switching, tap your key to allow the
> tuner to measure the present band. You must do this before selecting
> an antenna. If using enhanced band switching, the tuner reads the band
> automatically.
> > * Tap the KAT500 ANT to select the required antenna.
> > * Tap the KAT500 MODE to select AUTO or MAN.
> > o Tap the KAT500 TUNE. The AUTO or MAN LED will start to flash.
> > o Hold the K3's TUNE to apply power to the KAT500 and it will find
> the best match that it can and then stop. The SWR LEDs will show the
> tuning progress and the tuner will stop clacking its relays when it
> finds the best VSWR.
> > o Tap the K3's TUNE to stop transmitting.
> > * After training the tuner, you should save the configuration
> file. If you have trouble with your tuner, the configuration file can
> be sent to Elecraft Support of in-depth analysis.
> >
> > Hint: When training your tuner for various operating frequencies, it
> is useful and instructive to monitor the tuner's operation with the KAT
> Utility Operate screen.
> >
> > After doing this on all your favorite frequencies, run the tuner in
> MAN mode to avoid the sometimes false tuning that occurs when running
> SSB in AUTO mode.
> >
> > (Above is from Chapter 3 of "The Elecraft KPA500 Amplifier and KAT500
> > Tuner" by KE7X, now available from Elecraft part number E740244.)
> >
> > Cheers and 73,
> > Fred KE7X
> >
> > "The Elecraft K3: Design, Configuration and Operation 2nd ed"
> > "The Elecraft KX3 - Going for the summit"
> > "The Elecraft KPA500 and KAT500 - the K-Line Dream Station") All now
> > available from www.elecraft.com and
> > KPA500 and KAT500 Quick Set Up Guide
> > http://www.ke7x.com/home/k-line-introduction-and-set-up-guide
> >

k6dgw

Re: KPA500 and KAT500 setup (Training the KAT500)

I trained my KAT500 right after I built it, I run it in MANUAL, and it's
about as perfect as you can get. I don't think I've ever asked for an
additional feature, so here goes:

I use a C-R dipole @~65 ft for 40, 30, 17, and 12 [the GAP Titan is
just too noisy on those bands]. I built it from two lengths of 450 ohm
"window-line". Works great ... like a fan-dipole, it has a dipole
pattern on all bands instead of squirting my RF in undesired directions
on 17 and 12. The problem: 450 ohm window-line is somewhat sensitive
to rain, fog, snow, ice, and other forms of wetness. Thus, I need to
re-train at the beginning of the rain, and again when summer arrives
[almost never rains in the N. Cal Sierra foothills from about May to
Oct]. So,

1. Two banks of EEPROM to store separate training values. As an
accessory would be fine for me, a lot of folk have stable antennas and,
in the "Elecraft Ethic," should not have to pay for it if they don't
need it.

2. As an alternative, add a "Train Your KAT500" option in the KAT500
Utility. Upside is that doing it manually takes quite awhile. Down
side is that your 20W tune signal is sure to step very briefly on
someone somewhere since the Utility won't have any good way of know if
the chosen training frequency is occupied [Don't use 14230 or 14300
:-)]. The Utility could maybe allow you to select segments used [mine
would all be CW] which would lessen the on-air impact.

And now, I await someone telling me that the KAT500 Utility already does
this. I don't see it there, but I've overlooked a lot of features on my
Elecraft gear.

Fred K6DGW
TDY Livermore CA

On 6/9/2014 8:03 PM, Cady, Fred wrote:

> Hello again on the training of the KAT500:
> Don W3WPR points out that I forgot to mention that each band has segments for which you should find the tuner settings. The segment widths are:
> Below 3 MHz -- 10 kHz
> 3MHz to 26 MHz -- 20 kHz
> 26 MHz to 38 MHz -- 100 kHz
> 38 MHz to 60 MHz -- 200 kHz
> You should train the KAT500 on at least one frequency in each segment. For example, on 20 meters, start at about 14.010 and then move up the band in 20 kHz jumps to fully train the tuner for the entire band. Of course you don't have to train it for the whole band or every band if you don't operate on some frequencies.
>
> 73,
> Fred KE7x
>