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K2 with internal battery?

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John Huggins

K2 with internal battery?

Hello all,

As I creep towards my K2 definition...

- Low wattage is fine
- SSB option (yeah I know I probably want 100 watts with this, but I
still want it)
- DSP Board maybe

...and since one person spoke about the coolness of taking one and only
one box to the picnic table along with a simple wire...

- Internal antenna tuner
- Internal battery option

...are must have options.

However, reading today's threads about leaking batteries renews my
concerns about batteries in general.

So is there a consensus that internal batteries, while functionally
terrific, are just trouble waiting to happen?

Thanks, as usual, for your inputs.

John
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Dave, G4AON

Re: K2 with internal battery?

John

I have a K2 with the internal battery option. There are a few of points to consider:

1. The basic "original" K2 draws about half the current of a K2 with the DSP and SSB modules fitted (mine is drawing 360 mA at the moment). While you can configure the K2 to draw less current, you are losing some of the nicer features and performance.

2. A K2 with the internal battery is heavy. The power to weight ratio of a lead acid gel cell isn't very good, a handful of NiMh AA cells have a higher mA hour rating.

3. A lead acid battery will suffer loss of capacity if deeply discharged, so don't expect to fully utilise the charge in the internal battery very often!

I'm on my second battery in 6 years, but not sure I will fit another. I've not had any leakage but tend not to use the K2 on it's internal batteries.

73 Dave, G4AON
=================================================================================
John wrote: "So is there a consensus that internal batteries, while functionally
terrific, are just trouble waiting to happen?"

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k6dgw

Re: K2 with internal battery?

In reply to this post by John Huggins

John Huggins wrote:
>
> - Internal antenna tuner

If you're going to use a "simple wire," KAT2 is your only good option,
and it's a really good one too.

> - Internal battery option

I've had a LI Poly RC Model battery burst into flame while powering my
KX1 [fortunately outside both the house and radio], and I've had AA
alkalines leak inside my KX1 [fortunately, only one, and it was
cleanable]. I use an 12 Ah external sealed gel cell with my K2 that I
float on a 13.6V regulated supply when I'm not using it. It's good for
a weekend+ of fairly steady operation. I use a fairly light 3 Ah gel
cell with my KX1, it's good for more than a weekend of casual ops. I
don't put batteries inside my radios, although I know lots of folks do
and never have problems. After watching the pyrotechnic display on my
gravel driveway from the LiPoly, I've been considering keeping the LiIon
battery from my laptop in a coffee can outside until I need it :-) YMMV

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2007 CQP Oct 6-7
- www.cqp.org
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K2 with internal battery?

In reply to this post by John Huggins

John,

My experience with Sealed Lead Acid batteries has been quite good. My
K2 has had the internal battery installed for about 6 years now with no
problems noticed, nor have I had leakage problems with any of the SLA
batteries that I have had over the years.

The discussion started out based on a K1 question, and the battery
holder for the K1 is for AA cells. I have had leakage problems with
some of the AA cells in the past, usually the Alkaline type have more of
a chance for leakage than others, but I have had NiCads leak too - but
not very often.

73,
Don W3FPR

John Huggins wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> As I creep towards my K2 definition...
>
> - Low wattage is fine
> - SSB option (yeah I know I probably want 100 watts with this, but I
> still want it)
> - DSP Board maybe
>
> ...and since one person spoke about the coolness of taking one and only
> one box to the picnic table along with a simple wire...
>
> - Internal antenna tuner
> - Internal battery option
>
> ...are must have options.
>
> However, reading today's threads about leaking batteries renews my
> concerns about batteries in general.
>
> So is there a consensus that internal batteries, while functionally
> terrific, are just trouble waiting to happen?
>
> Thanks, as usual, for your inputs.
>
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>
>

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Paul - VE1DY-2

Re: K2 with internal battery?

In reply to this post by John Huggins

> ...and since one person spoke about the coolness of taking one and only
> one box to the picnic table along with a simple wire...

Hey John,

The tuner and battery is a super combo! I use mine all the time.

I also use an A&A Smart Charger, and have a jack on the back of the K2
for charging the battery; the setup works well.

> However, reading today's threads about leaking batteries renews my
> concerns about batteries in general.

I'd certainly be disappointed if that ever happened. Maybe if you
stick with the battery that Elecraft sells, it won't happen.

Good luck deciding...

73, Paul -ve1dy-
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Jim AB3CV

Re: K2 with internal battery?

In reply to this post by Dave, G4AON

I've likewise chosen external power for my K2. The ongoing tests by the RC
airplane folks of the Dewalt Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries may finally
cause me to put some batteries in my K2.

Google "A123" for more info.

73

jim ab3cv

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Kevin Rock

Re: K2 with internal battery?

There is a good article in the latest IEEE Spectrum on A123. They are
experimenting with a great number of Lithium Ion chemistries. Iron
Phosphate is just one of them but looks like it may be very stable.

Search here: www.spectrum.ieee.org/sep07/inthisissue

Kevin. KD5ONS

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:05:32 -0700, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I've likewise chosen external power for my K2. The ongoing tests by the
> RC
> airplane folks of the Dewalt Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries may finally
> cause me to put some batteries in my K2.
>
> Google "A123" for more info.
>
> 73
>
> jim ab3cv

Kevin Rock

Re: K2 with internal battery?

In reply to this post by Jim AB3CV

Better link to Spectrum article on A123:

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/sep07/5490

Kevin. KD5ONS

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:05:32 -0700, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:

Brett gazdzinski-2

RE: K2 with internal battery?

The battery in my cell phone is a lithium ion, and is
VERY small, VERY light, and rated for VERY high amp hours.
They have a much longer lifetime, lots more charge/discharge
cycles, and you don't really see a lot of cell phones
bursting into flames.

I don't think I would try cheap RC type batteries as they
likely are peak output short lifespan type batteries.

I did have a gel cell (camcorder) radio shack battery
in the emtech rig, with a built in trickle charger, and I had
the rig for 5 years with no battery problems, and that was
a radio shack battery!

NiCad's are a total waste of time, the worst batteries
ever made, and I wont buy anything that uses NiCad's.

I think most batteries are safe if you limit the
charge rate.

The sony laptop batteries had a short problem, not
an actual battery problem I think...
Bad wiring inside the battery package.
(made in china?)

Brett
N2DTS

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John Huggins

Battery Technologies

In reply to this post by Kevin Rock

Thanks for the information.

At my job we deal with these lightweight chemistries in batteries for
Unpiloted Aerial Vehicles. You can guess the requirements: provide
unlimited Whours/kg, tolerate -40 to +80C temps, exhibit lift, etc.

We have been watching very closely the progress in the Lithium Battery
world and I am happy to report progress on this technology is quite
fantastic. Safety has received important attention too. So not only
has progress occurred in the "laboratory" of the RC World (you know...
the, "run them at 30C and see what happens" crowd), but manufacturers
are doing a bang up job of extending temperature range, energy density
and a bit less tendency to start a good ol' Lithium fire.

We have never had one catch fire yet, but then again we don't run our
batteries at extreme currents. We often have some of the Lithium Ion
Polymer packs suddenly decide to expand their casing like a balloon. We
have never seen the package burst though. My technician did a little
research and found that slowly, very slowly, recharging the pack tends
to shrink them back down back to normal. We don't fly these packs again
of course, but so far they seem to act normal.

We finally got tired waiting for one of these things to self ignite so
we took one we pulled from service, but a charge on it and then tapped a
nail through it. We witnessed some small jet like flames, but nothing
like the way cool over charge tests the RC folks have done with inferno
results.

Being light in weight makes them attractive options for the backpacker
crowd. I am almost ready to consider carrying these things on my body,
but not quite yet. I want a little more safety first.

Is there a ham web site somewhere that is collecting information on
these latest batteries for use in the ham "way?" If not, perhaps I will
add that thread to mine.

John

Kevin Rock wrote:

> Better link to Spectrum article on A123:
>
> http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/sep07/5490
>
> Kevin. KD5ONS
>
>
>
> On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:05:32 -0700, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I've likewise chosen external power for my K2. The ongoing tests by
>> the RC
>> airplane folks of the Dewalt Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries may
>> finally
>> cause me to put some batteries in my K2.
>>
>> Google "A123" for more info.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> jim ab3cv
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
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> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

John Huggins

Re: K2 with internal battery?

In reply to this post by Paul - VE1DY-2

Thanks all for the reassuring remarks about the K2 internal battery and
the concerns over the AA pack for the other radio models.

I will keep it in my options list for the K2 project and move forward...

Cheers
John
KX4O

Paul - VE1DY wrote:

>>...and since one person spoke about the coolness of taking one and only
>>one box to the picnic table along with a simple wire...
>>
>>
>
>Hey John,
>
>The tuner and battery is a super combo! I use mine all the time.
>
>I also use an A&A Smart Charger, and have a jack on the back of the K2
>for charging the battery; the setup works well.
>
>
>
>>However, reading today's threads about leaking batteries renews my
>>concerns about batteries in general.
>>
>>
>
>I'd certainly be disappointed if that ever happened. Maybe if you
>stick with the battery that Elecraft sells, it won't happen.
>
>Good luck deciding...
>
>73, Paul -ve1dy-
>_______________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Post to: [hidden email]
>You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>
>