K3/0, Remote Rig & Winkey

[R.S.Hradilek]

I don't have a K3/0 yet, and need to make sure I can use it with
Winkey.

The internal keyer in the K3 would be fine, if only it supported
AUTOSPACE. A lot of rigs have built in keyers, and to the best of my
knowledge NONE support autospace. This is curious, as most DO support
the ability to modify the dit/dah ratio so you can send mangled CW.
Autospace enables sending perfect CW, which is not supported. I built
my first autospaced keyer (WB4VVF) in the 70's, so doing without the
feature is not an option because I send well ahead of the keyer.
(Without the feature, my letters run together with very little space
between and I sound horrible). I currently use a Winkeyer due to its
integration with contest software.

I presume that the keyer built into Remote Rig doesn't support
autospace either. I really hope I am wrong. I see where it's possible
to connect a straight key or keyer to the Remote Rig port and
override the built-in keyer. Need to make a special cable? Not a
problem. My question is: What would I sound like at 30+ WPM?

This has to do with how (or if) completed characters are passed along
the TCP/IP connection. The Winkeyer can read ASCII characters from a
PC and send them as dit and dahs, but we would be sending dits and
dahs to Remote Rig, and it would be sending them to the station with
a certain amount of latency. Is Remote Rig translating the dits and
dahs into ASCII characters and sending them, or would we be sending
the raw dits and dahs over TCP/IP, hoping for no distortion due to
latency?

Roy -- AD5Q
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[Björn SM0MDG]

Roy,

In the Remoterig keyer setup there is an auto-char-space option, isn't that what you need?

It is also possible to use a Winkeyer with Remoterig, I  have done several times when contesting remotely.

73 de Björn,
SM0MDG
SE0X

Björn Mohr | [hidden email] | Facebook
Telephone | [phone] | Skype

On 11 dec 2012, at 11:15, R.S.Hradilek <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't have a K3/0 yet, and need to make sure I can use it with
> Winkey.
>
> The internal keyer in the K3 would be fine, if only it supported
> AUTOSPACE. A lot of rigs have built in keyers, and to the best of my
> knowledge NONE support autospace. This is curious, as most DO support
> the ability to modify the dit/dah ratio so you can send mangled CW.
> Autospace enables sending perfect CW, which is not supported. I built
> my first autospaced keyer (WB4VVF) in the 70's, so doing without the
> feature is not an option because I send well ahead of the keyer.
> (Without the feature, my letters run together with very little space
> between and I sound horrible). I currently use a Winkeyer due to its
> integration with contest software.
>
> I presume that the keyer built into Remote Rig doesn't support
> autospace either. I really hope I am wrong. I see where it's possible
> to connect a straight key or keyer to the Remote Rig port and
> override the built-in keyer. Need to make a special cable? Not a
> problem. My question is: What would I sound like at 30+ WPM?
>
> This has to do with how (or if) completed characters are passed along
> the TCP/IP connection. The Winkeyer can read ASCII characters from a
> PC and send them as dit and dahs, but we would be sending dits and
> dahs to Remote Rig, and it would be sending them to the station with
> a certain amount of latency. Is Remote Rig translating the dits and
> dahs into ASCII characters and sending them, or would we be sending
> the raw dits and dahs over TCP/IP, hoping for no distortion due to
> latency?
>
> Roy -- AD5Q
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

73 de Björn,
SM0MDG
SE0X






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[David Cutter]

I want to place Beverages at remote sites (for rx only), for 160m (useable
on 80 and 40m), but it's not viable to use a K0 at each site.  Is there a
way to use a simpler system: perhaps a TRF on each band, up-converted to,
say, 2.3/2.4GHz then down-converted to each band for my K3 at home.  The
transmit antenna will be at home and listen in diversity mode.

I can see various issues like image and sensitivity cropping up, but I just
wonder if this has be done.  It would be nice if there was a lower cost K
series simple remote receiver available.


73

David
G3UNA

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[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy-3]

David,

My XYL and I have been away, so my apology for being slow to make a comment.

If your remote Beverages are to be used on 160m, 80m and 40m, and a remote
TRF is used on each band to provide selectivity and gain, then unless their
outputs are combined before up-conversion then obviously you would require a
home-to-remote site link to band-switch the TRFs.

Of course I have no idea as to the level of BC signal(s) etc your Beverages
would present to the TRFs, but as you know the size and mix of all Iron/
Ferrite cores used in the system (including the combiner's) must be chosen
with care to prevent "Core Generated IMD" becoming a "problem".

Another difficulty which might arise in an up-conversion scheme is the
generation of intermodulation products, either by the up-converting mixer or
by any subsequent stage.  This makes me wonder whether it would be better to
run the 160m, 80m and 40m TRFs continuously, and view their combined outputs
as "Baseband".  Then use this "Baseband" signal to Angle Modulate (FM or PM)
the microwave transmitter at the remote site.  At the home site the
recovered baseband from a FM/PM receiver would be the 160m, 80m and 40m
bands.  Of course a home-to-remote link would not be required.

Here I must put my hand up, because it has been a -long- time since I
designed any microwave kit, and I cannot recall if a "Baseband" extending to
7.2 MHz is feasible.

Best wishes to you, David, to all on the "List", and to everbody at Elecraft
for the New Year when it comes!!

73,

Geoff
LX2AO


On December 22, 2012 at 2:40 PM, David Cutter wrote:

>I want to place Beverages at remote sites (for rx only), for 160m (useable
>on 80 and 40m), but it's not viable to use a K0 at each site.  Is there a
>way to use a simpler system: perhaps a TRF on each band, up-converted to,
>say, 2.3/2.4GHz then down-converted to each band for my K3 at home.  The
>transmit antenna will be at home and listen in diversity mode.
>
> I can see various issues like image and sensitivity cropping up, but I
> just wonder if this has be done.  It would be nice if there was a lower
> cost K series simple remote receiver available.

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[David Cutter]

Thanks for those notes, Geoff.  It did cross my mind that I would probably
need some home to site link to avoid continuous transmission and switch
between the amplifier front end filters or complete amplifier/TRF.  For a
start this would be an additional challenge for the battery supply and
reliability of the system and I would avoid unattended transmissions.  I
would use high gain, directional antennas at each end of the microwave link
to keep tx power down and avoid QRM in that band.  I would provide good
filters to avoid bc QRM and I note your comment about core-generated IMD.
Initially I was considering only pointing at North America with one aerial
to get the hang of it and that should avoid most night time Eu bc QRM.

As to modulating a microwave signal with as much as 7.2MHz, I don't know
either, but I'm hoping I can purchase the microwave bits as off the shelf
products, so, that will be part of my search.

I wondered if there might be front end parts of Elecraft products that would
do some of the work and I would look at amplifiers off the shelf to
interface to the Beverage.

Thanks, again, Geoff and seasons greetings to you and all on reflector.

David
G3UNA

> David,
>
> My XYL and I have been away, so my apology for being slow to make a
> comment.
>
> If your remote Beverages are to be used on 160m, 80m and 40m, and a remote
> TRF is used on each band to provide selectivity and gain, then unless
> their outputs are combined before up-conversion then obviously you would
> require a home-to-remote site link to band-switch the TRFs.
>
> Of course I have no idea as to the level of BC signal(s) etc your
> Beverages would present to the TRFs, but as you know the size and mix of
> all Iron/ Ferrite cores used in the system (including the combiner's) must
> be chosen with care to prevent "Core Generated IMD" becoming a "problem".
>
> Another difficulty which might arise in an up-conversion scheme is the
> generation of intermodulation products, either by the up-converting mixer
> or by any subsequent stage.  This makes me wonder whether it would be
> better to run the 160m, 80m and 40m TRFs continuously, and view their
> combined outputs as "Baseband".  Then use this "Baseband" signal to Angle
> Modulate (FM or PM) the microwave transmitter at the remote site.  At the
> home site the recovered baseband from a FM/PM receiver would be the 160m,
> 80m and 40m bands.  Of course a home-to-remote link would not be required.
>
> Here I must put my hand up, because it has been a -long- time since I
> designed any microwave kit, and I cannot recall if a "Baseband" extending
> to 7.2 MHz is feasible.
>
> Best wishes to you, David, to all on the "List", and to everbody at
> Elecraft for the New Year when it comes!!
>
> 73,
>
> Geoff
> LX2AO
>
>
> On December 22, 2012 at 2:40 PM, David Cutter wrote:
>
>>I want to place Beverages at remote sites (for rx only), for 160m (useable
>>on 80 and 40m), but it's not viable to use a K0 at each site.  Is there a
>>way to use a simpler system: perhaps a TRF on each band, up-converted to,
>>say, 2.3/2.4GHz then down-converted to each band for my K3 at home.  The
>>transmit antenna will be at home and listen in diversity mode.
>>
>> I can see various issues like image and sensitivity cropping up, but I
>> just wonder if this has been done.  It would be nice if there was a lower
>> cost K series simple remote receiver available.
>

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