K3/10 For Sale or Trade

[alsopb]

This is A/B approach is a "transmit on the wrong VFO" accident waiting to happen.   The tap again is what can get lost in the heat of the action.

There simply is no substitute for a second VFO/sub rx that is in RX all the time.
That being said.  One could always tell (just after the FT-1000MP's came out in numbers) who what using a new MP.  They were the ones transmitting on the DX's frequency.  Nothing is foolproof.

de K3KO

<quote author="ab2tc">
Why not use the A/B button instead of REV when working split? No acrobatics necessary. Tap it once, tune the other frequency, tap it again and you are back where you started.

73 de ab2tc - Knut

John Reiser-3 wrote

I don't have any trouble holding the REV button on my K3 with my index
finger while turning the VFO A knob with my thumb.  I do that a lot working
DX like Ducie.  Maybe it's a question of getting used to the placement of
the button with a new radio.

I have never used an Omni-VI, so I don't know whether its front-panel layout
is easier to use or not.

Just wanted to get my 2 cents worth in on this thread before it becomes
accepted truth that the K3 layout is hard to use.  It's plenty easy for me.

73,  John, W2GW


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian White GM3SEK" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3/10 For Sale or Trade


> Paul Christensen wrote:
>>>  I also find it is much easier to hold the REV button and tune the VFO
>>> with one hand when working split on the Omni-VI than the K3.
>>
>>That's one K3 limitation that I have not experienced with most other
>>transceivers.   Of all the panel buttons, the placement of the REV button
>>is probably the most critical.   Other controls maybe touched up
>>periodically but when you're working split with a paddle in one hand,
>>split mode requires a very ergonomic one-hand operation.  I would have
>>preferred the K3's REV button placed either in place of the red Freq.
>>Entry button so that the right index finger can be used while using the
>>thumb and other fingers to find the Dx stations listening frequency --
>>or in the alternative, placement of the REV button on the lower left of
>>the main VFO so that the right thumb is used.  I am right-handed so I am
>>naturally biased.
>>
>>The Ducie guys with their K3s never ran into this dilemma as the DX
>>station. It manifests only for the mere mortals trying to work the DX
>>station.  Of course, when the sub-receiver is offered, this all becomes
>>moot point but not everyone will want the optional sub-rx.
>>
>
> A useful feature for K3s that don't have the sub-receiver would be to
> duplicate the REV function on the SUB button.
>
>
<snip>

[ab2tc]

I don't understand why. If you forget to get back to the DX' transmit frequency, you will not hear him. Why would you transmit if you don't hear the DX says he is listening? I think most of the cases of transmitting on the wrong frequency is because SPLIT is turned off. I know I have made this mistake but *never* because the A/B was in the wrong state.

Knut - AB2TC

<quote author="K3KO">
This is A/B approach is a "transmit on the wrong VFO" accident waiting to happen.   The tap again is what can get lost in the heat of the action.

There simply is no substitute for a second VFO/sub rx that is in RX all the time.
That being said.  One could always tell (just after the FT-1000MP's came out in numbers) who what using a new MP.  They were the ones transmitting on the DX's frequency.  Nothing is foolproof.

de K3KO

ab2tc wrote

Why not use the A/B button instead of REV when working split? No acrobatics necessary. Tap it once, tune the other frequency, tap it again and you are back where you started.

73 de ab2tc - Knut

John Reiser-3 wrote

I don't have any trouble holding the REV button on my K3 with my index
finger while turning the VFO A knob with my thumb.  I do that a lot working
DX like Ducie.  Maybe it's a question of getting used to the placement of
the button with a new radio.

I have never used an Omni-VI, so I don't know whether its front-panel layout
is easier to use or not.

Just wanted to get my 2 cents worth in on this thread before it becomes
accepted truth that the K3 layout is hard to use.  It's plenty easy for me.

73,  John, W2GW


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian White GM3SEK" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3/10 For Sale or Trade


> Paul Christensen wrote:
>>>  I also find it is much easier to hold the REV button and tune the VFO
>>> with one hand when working split on the Omni-VI than the K3.
>>
>>That's one K3 limitation that I have not experienced with most other
>>transceivers.   Of all the panel buttons, the placement of the REV button
>>is probably the most critical.   Other controls maybe touched up
>>periodically but when you're working split with a paddle in one hand,
>>split mode requires a very ergonomic one-hand operation.  I would have
>>preferred the K3's REV button placed either in place of the red Freq.
>>Entry button so that the right index finger can be used while using the
>>thumb and other fingers to find the Dx stations listening frequency --
>>or in the alternative, placement of the REV button on the lower left of
>>the main VFO so that the right thumb is used.  I am right-handed so I am
>>naturally biased.
>>
>>The Ducie guys with their K3s never ran into this dilemma as the DX
>>station. It manifests only for the mere mortals trying to work the DX
>>station.  Of course, when the sub-receiver is offered, this all becomes
>>moot point but not everyone will want the optional sub-rx.
>>
>
> A useful feature for K3s that don't have the sub-receiver would be to
> duplicate the REV function on the SUB button.
>
>
<snip>

[Vic K2VCO]

ab2tc wrote:
> Why would you transmit if you don't hear
> the DX says he is listening?

I have to admit that I would like to know the answer to this one too!
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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[P.B. Christensen]

> I have to admit that I would like to know the answer to this one too!

Vic, the idea is to minimize any propensity for Tx error.  Far too many ops
call the DX station incessantly without listening.  These are the guys I
would really hate to see using A/B.

If you're really cognizant about your operations, it can work well.  I would
like to avoid the embarrassment of transmitting by accident at every
opportunity.  By contrast, no matter what state the REV button is in when
operating split after the initial set-up, I won't transmit on the DX
station -- unless I've spun VFO B down so low as to create interference.
That's a far less likely situation.

Paul, W9AC

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[drewko]

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:49:15 -0400,  Ed K1EP wrote:

>At 3/16/2008 03:05 PM, Bill NY9H wrote:
>>During Clipperton & Ducie  I found myself,  ( AS DID SEVERAL OTHERS  :(   )
>>     out of band calling after I managed to hit the UN-split button
>> missing the REV button. I don't need any help looking stupid.
>>
>>Using the single rcvr SUB button as REV makes great sense to me.
>
>I found that somehow the split function got turned off (by some
>software combination or band switching combination) and I was called
>UP several times.  I found the SPLIT SAVE function, which greatly
>helped me out there.
>

Maybe it would be useful to be able to "transmit-lock" one of the
VFO's; i.e., temporarilly disable it from transmitting altogether.

Another idea: provide an audible enunciator whenever A/B is pressed.
For example: a single beep for A and a double beep for B (or
alternatively, a high tone beep for A and a low tone for B). This tone
enunciator would tell you instantly which vfo you have selected and
would quickly become ingrained in your operating habits. (Better yet::
"di-dah" for A and "dah-di-di-dit" for B would be way cool! Perhaps
there are other rig functions that could benefit from Morse code
enunciators?)

As for Split, I wouldn't mind having a periodic audio warning to
remind me that it is on; perhaps some low-profile chime every
x-seconds with user-selectable volume, tone and beep rate. (But then
again, I am a cw op so not worried about it getting out over the
mic...)

Okay, so I like audible enunciators.  No need for jokes about 'roger
beep'...

73,
Drew
AF2Z

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[drewko]

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 22:05:59 -0400, I wrote:

>
>Okay, so I like audible enunciators.  No need for jokes about 'roger
>beep'...
>


Uh, I mean "annunciator" not enunciator, if that makes a little more
sense...

73,
Drew
AF2Z

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