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K3/100 kit

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Rick Comins

K3/100 kit

I'm just getting back onto Ham radio after 50 years. Boy have things changed. I am seriously thinking of getting a K3/100. I just put up a Hy-Gain AV-640 Antenna and need something to drive it. If I get the K3/100 Kit, what is needed to put the kit together i.e.: is test equipment required?, etc. I have read most of your ads/descriptions/reviews/etc. and nowhere have I seen anything about what is needed to actually put the the kit together and do final adjustments/tuning. Also do you recommend a particular type of Power Supply or are the all about the same?
Thanks in advance,
Rick KF7CNJ
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Mark Bayern

Re: K3/100 kit

> I'm just getting back onto Ham radio after 50 years.

KF7CNJ? I'll assume that was not your orignal call. hi I was
originally licensed in the early '70s but dropped out in the '90s. It
took my son (W2CVZ) to get me back into the hobby.

> If I get the K3/100 Kit, what is needed to put the kit together ?

Good question. I thought that info would have been in the faqs for the
K3, but I don't see it.

Page 8 of the K3 Assembly Manual lists the necessary tools. It is a
pdf document and I don't have an easy way to get the relevant text
into an email. Basically you'll need normal hand tools, a DMM, and a
50ohm dummy load. In my experience a _very_good_ size 1 phillips
screwdriver is important.

Take a look at the assembly manual for all the details:
<http://www.elecraft.com/manual/K3_Assembly_Manual_Rev_G_WEB.pdf>

Mark AD5SS
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3/100 kit

In reply to this post by Rick Comins

Rick,

The only tools required are listed in the K3 Assembly Manual on page 6.
Download the manual from the Elecraft website. Nothing exotic is
required although anti-static work mat and an ESD wrist strap are
strongly recommended.

You likely have most of the tools already, but if your screwdrivers are
worn, I highly recommend that you purchase a new good #1 Phillips for
building the K3. There is nothing more frustrating than having a
screwdriver cam out of a Phillips screwhead and not only damaging the
screwhead, but possibly aslso skating to some other point and damaging
the paint on a panel. Screwdrivers come in all levels of quality, get a
good one, this is not a good place to be frugal.

Since your tools may also be 50 years old, if you have an old analog
multimeter or VTVM, resist the temptation to use it with solid state
gear. Usable DMMs are available for a very low price from places like
Harbor Freight Tools and will do an adequate job.

As for a power supply, I am partial to linear supplies and have a Astron
RS-35A sitting under my operating desk. It powers the K3/100 as well as
several other radios and accessories. I have an Astron switcher at the
workbench that I use regularly and have not experienced any problems
with it nor have I noticed any strange signals created by that
particular switcher. The K3 /100 requires 20 Amps at a nominal 13.8
volts, but you will likely want to power several accessories down the
road, so a power supply rated at 25 amps or more would be a good
purchase IMHO. Look at the ARRL Product Reviews for details on several
power supplies and then make your choice.

73,
Don W3FPR

Rick Comins wrote:
> I'm just getting back onto Ham radio after 50 years. Boy have things changed. I am seriously thinking of getting a K3/100. I just put up a Hy-Gain AV-640 Antenna and need something to drive it. If I get the K3/100 Kit, what is needed to put the kit together i.e.: is test equipment required?, etc. I have read most of your ads/descriptions/reviews/etc. and nowhere have I seen anything about what is needed to actually put the the kit together and do final adjustments/tuning. Also do you recommend a particular type of Power Supply or are the all about the same?
> Thanks in advance,
> Rick KF7CNJ
>
>
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Jim Brown-10

Re: K3/100 kit

On Fri, 22 May 2009 11:10:58 -0400, Don Wilhelm wrote:

>You likely have most of the tools already, but if your screwdrivers are
>worn, I highly recommend that you purchase a new good #1 Phillips for
>building the K3.

Don has given you great advice, with which I agree completely. I'll add one
point, and some encouragement. First, the point -- make sure that Phillips
has a magnetic tip. VERY useful when you're trying to get certain of the
screws started.

Now, the encouragement. I was first licensed 55 years ago, and have been on
and off the air for 10-15 years at a time several times -- going to school,
raising kids, running my own small biz -- and most recently got back on the
air in 2003. The K3/100 is VERY easy to build. All of the boards are built
and tested. You're putting together a very nicely modular chassis, mounting
boards, plugging them together, and doing a few ohmmeter and voltage tests
to make sure that nothing is shorted out. It takes about a day to do it
all.

Welcome back to ham radio. You'll find that many of us have followed your
route in one form or another. I'm a member of several local ham clubs, and
it seems that the majority of our members are old timers, returned from
long periods off the air, mixed in with new hams of all ages.

73,

Jim Brown K9YC

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3/100 kit

Jim,

I respectfully disagree with your suggestion for a magnetic tip. While
it is useful in some (K3 build) situations, I just don't want ANY
magnetic tools on my workbench because they pick up bits of cutoff leads
and magnetize other tools. I routinely de-magnetize all my tools - that
is why I keep the old Weller soldering gun at the workbench.
A GOOD #1 Phillips screwdriver tip will hold a 1/4 inch screw in if held
15 degrees or more off vertical - if it won't, get another screwdriver.

YMMV

73,
Don W3FPR

Jim Brown wrote:

> On Fri, 22 May 2009 11:10:58 -0400, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>
>
>> You likely have most of the tools already, but if your screwdrivers are
>> worn, I highly recommend that you purchase a new good #1 Phillips for
>> building the K3.
>>
>
> Don has given you great advice, with which I agree completely. I'll add one
> point, and some encouragement. First, the point -- make sure that Phillips
> has a magnetic tip. VERY useful when you're trying to get certain of the
> screws started.
>
> Now, the encouragement. ...
>

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Gary Smith

Re: K3/100 kit

> I respectfully disagree with your suggestion for a magnetic tip. While
> it is useful in some (K3 build) situations, I just don't want ANY
> magnetic tools on my workbench because they pick up bits of cutoff leads
> and magnetize other tools. I routinely de-magnetize all my tools - that
> is why I keep the old Weller soldering gun at the workbench.
> A GOOD #1 Phillips screwdriver tip will hold a 1/4 inch screw in if held
> 15 degrees or more off vertical - if it won't, get another screwdriver.

I find the opposite value.

I have found a magnetized screwdriver has always been an asset,
especially when dealing with smaller screws like the ones in the K3
kit. Some of the screws are going to be inserted vertically and a
small bit of magnetisim to hold the screw to the driver is a
blessing. Some folks are going to find it difficult to hold a small
screw without it falling off inside the unit and then you have to
search for the loose screw. That is much worse that picking up bits
of ferous metal.

With the K3, none of the screwdrivers (cept for the ones for the
bail) are so large that they will magnetize other tools to a clinical
degree. I never have my drivers so magnetized that it becomes a
problematic metal collection device I magnetize them just enough to
help hold the screw.

73,

Gary
KA1J
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David Christ

Re: K3/100 kit

In reply to this post by Rick Comins

My preferred solution is to use a Phillips screw starter. You can
find different models by searching the net. The ones I use are
similar to these
<http://www.generaltools.com/Products/Phillips-Screw-Starter__8083.aspx>.
I have a larger and smaller one. They are great because you can hold
a screw vertically and lower it into the hole.

Weha has a nice little magnitizer/demagnitizer which can let you have
your tools either way. <http://www.wihatools.com/400seri/40010ser.htm>

David K0LUM

>Jim,
>
>I respectfully disagree with your suggestion for a magnetic tip. While
>it is useful in some (K3 build) situations, I just don't want ANY
>magnetic tools on my workbench because they pick up bits of cutoff leads
>and magnetize other tools. I routinely de-magnetize all my tools - that
>is why I keep the old Weller soldering gun at the workbench.
>A GOOD #1 Phillips screwdriver tip will hold a 1/4 inch screw in if held
>15 degrees or more off vertical - if it won't, get another screwdriver.
>
>YMMV
>
>73,
>Don W3FPR
>
>Jim Brown wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 May 2009 11:10:58 -0400, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>>
>>
>>> You likely have most of the tools already, but if your screwdrivers are
>>> worn, I highly recommend that you purchase a new good #1 Phillips for
>>> building the K3.
>>>
>>
>> Don has given you great advice, with which I agree completely. I'll add one
>> point, and some encouragement. First, the point -- make sure that Phillips
>> has a magnetic tip. VERY useful when you're trying to get certain of the
>> screws started.
>>
>> Now, the encouragement. ...
>>
>______________________________________________________________
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>
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Bob-270

Re: K3/100 kit (Now Magnetic Screwdrivers)

In reply to this post by Gary Smith

AC7AC

Re: K3/100 kit

In reply to this post by David Christ

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

Mark Bayern-3

Re: K3/100 kit

I find I have no problems working with screws in a horizontal axis. A
good (Wiha or equiv.) screwdriver will hold a screw with the shaft of
the screwdriver horizontal. For example to put the top cover on the K3
you could put the K3 on its side (side feet down on the counter,
handle up), put a screw in the screwdriver and screw it into a hole on
the top cover. Of course, the cover is a trivial example, but the same
operation works for installing screws inside the K3. It just requires
a good screwdriver, not necessarily magnetic.

Mark

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Another approach is to simply turn the K3 so that gravity holds the screw in
> place as you start it. That is, always be working with your screwdriver
> vertical, tip down, when starting a troublesome screw. There are only a few
> of these, so it's not as much tipping of the K3 this way or that as one
> might imagine. Just turning the rig so the parts won't fall to the bottom is
> a huge help. They'll usually fall right out onto the bench if they land on
> the side somewhere near the opening you're working through.
>
> The *worst* possible orientation, IMX, is to be standing over the rig
> working through the open top.
>
> That's something I do with *any* piece of equipment I'm fiddling with and
> find a screw needed where it (or its lock washer) might get lost or hard to
> retrieve if I dropped it.
>
> That doesn't mean I *never* drop something. I have very strong little magnet
> on a long thin screwdriver-like-shaft that I can "wave" around near the PC
> board and that almost always causes the part I dropped to jump up onto it
> even if I couldn't see it.
>
> Ron AC7AC

Dave, G4AON

Re: K3/100 kit

In reply to this post by Rick Comins

I wouldn't be in a hurry to wave a strong magnet anywhere near radio
equipment that contains ferrite or dust cores. When I worked in the
mobile radio industry we occasionally came across a mobile that had been
carried or stored with a magnetic mount antenna on it... The radio had
below specification performance with no obvious fault except the
alignment didn't seem right. The fix was to replace the cores. It's over
20 years since I worked on a bench repairing those radios, so I can't
recall the type of core.

Old Weller TCP irons with the magnetic switch near the tip are something
else to watch...

You might get away with it building an Elecraft kit, but I wouldn't risk it.

73 Dave, G4AON
K3/100 #80
-------------------------

That doesn't mean I *never* drop something. I have very strong little magnet
on a long thin screwdriver-like-shaft that I can "wave" around near the PC
board and that almost always causes the part I dropped to jump up onto it
even if I couldn't see it.

Ron AC7AC

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Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy

Re: K3/100 kit

Hello Dave,

I hope that your warning about the effect that a magnet can have on cores
will be noted by those who use magnetized screwdrivers to recover hardware.
To recover parts that have gone AWOL I would srongly recommend the use of an
inexpensive "Grabber" tool, which can also be used to install a screw and
lockwasher together in one shot before the screw is tightened by a
screwdriver (non magnetic). IMHO the use of magnetized tools is asking for
trouble.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD .

Dave G4AON wrote on Saturday, May 23, 2009 6:59 AM

>I wouldn't be in a hurry to wave a strong magnet anywhere near radio
> equipment that contains ferrite or dust cores. When I worked in the
> mobile radio industry we occasionally came across a mobile that had been
> carried or stored with a magnetic mount antenna on it... The radio had
> below specification performance with no obvious fault except the
> alignment didn't seem right. The fix was to replace the cores. It's over
> 20 years since I worked on a bench repairing those radios, so I can't
> recall the type of core.
>
> Old Weller TCP irons with the magnetic switch near the tip are something
> else to watch...
>
> You might get away with it building an Elecraft kit, but I wouldn't risk
> it.
>
> 73 Dave, G4AON
> K3/100 #80

Guy, K2AV

Re: K3/100 kit

A friend of mine put a mag mount on top of his 2m base radio. Never worked
right after that. Never able to realign it. Warnings below should be
heeded. A good new (not worn) phillips screwdriver will grip a screw enough
to get it started. I bought a brand new Stanley set for my K3 assembly, and
went through my old ones and threw worn ones out.

73, Guy.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy" <[hidden email]>
To: "Dave G4AON" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Elecraft Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 5:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3/100 kit

> Hello Dave,
>
> I hope that your warning about the effect that a magnet can have on cores
> will be noted by those who use magnetized screwdrivers to recover
> hardware.
> To recover parts that have gone AWOL I would srongly recommend the use of
> an
> inexpensive "Grabber" tool, which can also be used to install a screw and
> lockwasher together in one shot before the screw is tightened by a
> screwdriver (non magnetic). IMHO the use of magnetized tools is asking for
> trouble.
>
> 73,
> Geoff
> GM4ESD .
>
>
> Dave G4AON wrote on Saturday, May 23, 2009 6:59 AM
>
>>I wouldn't be in a hurry to wave a strong magnet anywhere near radio
>> equipment that contains ferrite or dust cores. When I worked in the
>> mobile radio industry we occasionally came across a mobile that had been
>> carried or stored with a magnetic mount antenna on it... The radio had
>> below specification performance with no obvious fault except the
>> alignment didn't seem right. The fix was to replace the cores. It's over
>> 20 years since I worked on a bench repairing those radios, so I can't
>> recall the type of core.
>>
>> Old Weller TCP irons with the magnetic switch near the tip are something
>> else to watch...
>>
>> You might get away with it building an Elecraft kit, but I wouldn't risk
>> it.
>>
>> 73 Dave, G4AON
>> K3/100 #80
>
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AC7AC

Re: K3/100 kit

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Jack Smith-6

Re: K3/100 kit

It's a commonly known problem for NiZn ferrites. Whether a mag mount
antenna yields sufficient field to cause the problem is a different
question.

For specific literature cites:

Fair-Rite:
"Strong magnetic fields or excessive mechanical stresses may result in
irreversible changes in permeability and losses"
http://www.fair-rite.com/newfair/materials67.htm

EPCOS:
www.acaltechnology.com/download.php?id=111034
"NiZn-materials. The magnetic properties of NiZn-materials can change
irreversible in high magnetic fields."

Jack K8ZOA

Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> Gentlemen, I'd appreciate a link to any manufacturer's or engineering data
> you have, since I have never seen a ferrite or powdered iron core that was
> permanently affected by a magnet, nor have I ever encountered any
> manufacturer's warnings about magnets around modern electronics in the
> equipment I've worked on over the years.
>
> My hardware experience includes repairing aircraft navigation and radio
> equipment, broadcast transmitters, mobile radio equipment from HF through
> UHF and repairing and certifying all sorts of communications gear from MF/HF
> radios to satellite systems, radars, GPS and other navigational equipment on
> ships of all sizes from fishing vessels to some of the largest deep water
> vessels afloat.
>
> Much of this gear protects lives, and I've always been careful to do
> everything *by the book* per the manufacturer's instructions and the
> regulations.
>
> It is true that magnets can affect cores by detuning circuits to some extent
> *while the magnet is present*. Indeed, some systems use a permanent magnet
> brought near a toroid, or a separate winding through which a d-c current is
> passed to create a magnetic field, to 'tune' the circuit by adjusting the
> inductance slightly.
>
> Those systems for adjusting the inductance work because the toroid is not
> permanently affected by the magnetic field.
>
> Several years ago a number of Elecraft K2 owners noted the speaker magnet in
> the top cover affected some alignments. The solution was to be sure the
> cover was in place first so the field from the powerful speaker magnet was
> in position just as it would be in normal operation. There are no problems
> caused by the presence of the magnetic unless it is moved.
>
> The only thing I can suggest about the guy with the 2-meter rig that was
> permanently "detuned" by putting mag-mount antenna on the case is that it
> magnetized the case itself and the permanent magnetic field resulting from
> the case affected some nearby toriods. Demagnetizing the case should fix the
> problem.
>
> When I worked in land mobile in the 1980's, people often did exactly that to
> set up a temporary "demo" installation of 700 or 900 MHz radios without any
> deleterious effects on their performance.
>
> I used to warn against that, not because of the magnet, but because of the
> very close proximity of the operator to 35 watts of 700 or 900 MHz energy
> from that antenna when transmitting.
>
> I'd suggest Hams avoid doing that for the same reason unless they're keeping
> the transmit power very low, even on bands as low as 144 or 50 MHz.
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
>
>
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>

AC7AC

Re: K3/100 kit

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