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K3 13.8 VDC power

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ve3dvy

Re: K3 13.8 VDC power

Interesting presentation and I certainly understand the principal of
supply voltage vs IMD. There are some transmitters that I would not run
at 12v some are worse than others. Im looking specifically at K3
performance as this is what I have, and as Don points out it is one of
if not the cleanest out there and as pointed out droping my power by 30%
would have little effect at the receiving end but would certainly reduce
IMD and may get me an hour more operating time to boot. What
transmitter you were using on page 43 Seems to be an ICOM 7600 for
most samples and what were the actual high, nominal, and low voltages.
just a guess would be the rigs spec High, 13.8, and spec minimum.

Also I wonder if I could get the authors permission to use this in a
presentation at a club meeting.

David Moes
[hidden email]
VE3DVY, VE3SD

On 12/23/2014 02:24, Jim Brown wrote:

> On Mon,12/22/2014 2:50 PM, david Moes wrote:
>> I'm just curios is there any real test data available showing what
>> IMD may be present at various supply voltages?
>
> The link below is for a presentation that K6XX and I did to NCCC a
> year or so ago. See slide #42 for some measurements that Bob did.
>
> http://k9yc.com/K6XXAmpTalk.pdf
>
> The measurements I posted a day or two ago were done at supply
> voltages between about 12.5V and 12.9V. It's hard to find the IMD --
> there's some, but it's WAY down.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
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mike

Re: K3 13.8 VDC power

My setup is charging a 33 AH AGM battery via a West Mountain Radio PowerGate PG40S that feeds a distribution panel for the K3, P3 and other 12v accessories. The power supply input to the PowerGate is a PowerWerx SPS-30DM. The system can handle short power outages and keeps the battery correctly charged. I only turn the P/S on when using the rigs unless the PowerGate indicates a need for 'bulk' charging. When it goes to float, I turn the P/S off. I really see this as an uninterruptible P/S protection for the station. It was also helpful when I was chasing down an interference signal I was seeing by eliminating any source in the house (cut the AC mains and ran the K3/P3 form the battery.)

73 ..mike AI6II

Jim Brown-10

Re: K3 13.8 VDC power

In reply to this post by ve3dvy

On Tue,12/23/2014 4:54 AM, david Moes wrote:
> Interesting presentation and I certainly understand the principal of
> supply voltage vs IMD. There are some transmitters that I would not
> run at 12v some are worse than others. Im looking specifically at
> K3 performance as this is what I have, and as Don points out it is one
> of if not the cleanest out there and as pointed out droping my power
> by 30% would have little effect at the receiving end but would
> certainly reduce IMD and may get me an hour more operating time to
> boot. What transmitter you were using on page 43

I don't know -- that part of the program was prepared by K6XX. You can
identify his measurement slides by their screen display, which were made
using a Rigol Spectrum Analyzer. My measurements were those done using
the P3, looking at signals on the air.

> Seems to be an ICOM 7600 for most samples and what were the actual
> high, nominal, and low voltages. just a guess would be the rigs spec
> High, 13.8, and spec minimum.
>
> Also I wonder if I could get the authors permission to use this in a
> presentation at a club meeting.

Sorry, no, because much of the content of the presentation depends on
Bob's oral talk, and it was not recorded. You are, however, welcome to
pass around the link.

73, Jim K9YC
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Roger D Johnson

Re: K3 13.8 VDC power

In reply to this post by Richard Fjeld

It IS possible to send the K3 off to never-never land by removing the 12 volt
input before
shutting the radio off with the power switch. I've had it happen whilst mucking
around
behind my desk and accidentally pulling out the Anderson power-pole connector.

If you've saved the settings using the K3 utility, you can reset everything
using the
procedure on page 63 of the K3 manual. NOTE: This did not work with my rotor
control plugged into the ACC socket! If you didn't save the parameters, you will
have to manually reset everything! SAVE!

73, Roger

On 12/23/2014 1:30 AM, Richard Fjeld wrote:

>
> Well, more good information. Maybe I stand corrected. It's been nearly 4
> years since I have read the manual, and my memory may have read more into the
> statements than it should have.
>
> I refer to page 13, right hand column, halfway down, entitled "POWER". There
> is a note that reads "To ensure correct save of operating parameters, turn the
> K3 off /before/ turning the power supply off." When I read that, I thought
> about the short duration power failures we experience.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
>
>

Richard Fjeld

Re: K3 13.8 VDC power

Thanks Roger, that information is rewarding.

Imagine what would happen if a power outage occurs during a firmware
upload. The odds are slim, but my middle name is 'Murphy'.
I want a good battery in my laptop as well. It has to finish the upload.

Dick, n0ce

On 12/23/2014 10:09 AM, Roger D Johnson wrote:

> It IS possible to send the K3 off to never-never land by removing the
> 12 volt input before
> shutting the radio off with the power switch. I've had it happen
> whilst mucking around
> behind my desk and accidentally pulling out the Anderson power-pole
> connector.
>
> If you've saved the settings using the K3 utility, you can reset
> everything using the
> procedure on page 63 of the K3 manual. NOTE: This did not work with my
> rotor
> control plugged into the ACC socket! If you didn't save the
> parameters, you will
> have to manually reset everything! SAVE!
>
> 73, Roger
>
>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3 13.8 VDC power

In reply to this post by Roger D Johnson

I have noted that if you remove power it does not give the processor time to save the last frequency and other settings that it automatically saves (operating conditions). I had this happen with a defective power supply and a few times when the power was automatically removed. My dog likes to sleep under the operating desk. Lately he has been picking on my cable modem and router. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart
From: Roger D Johnson <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2014 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 13.8 VDC power

It IS possible to send the K3 off to never-never land by removing the 12 volt
input before
shutting the radio off with the power switch. I've had it happen whilst mucking
around
behind my desk and accidentally pulling out the Anderson power-pole connector.

If you've saved the settings using the K3 utility, you can reset everything
using the
procedure on page 63 of the K3 manual. NOTE: This did not work with my rotor
control plugged into the ACC socket! If you didn't save the parameters, you will
have to manually reset everything! SAVE!

73, Roger

On 12/23/2014 1:30 AM, Richard Fjeld wrote:

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Kenneth Christiansen-2

Re: K3 13.8 VDC power

In reply to this post by Richard Fjeld

Hi to the group

I have a K3 and a KX3 with PX3 and PA100. I always keep an up to date config file on my computer. If I get an out of sequence power off I always restore the config using the Elecraft utility. If I load new firmware I also restore the good config. If I go to field day I make sure there is a good config file for each operator. This allows each operator to have their favorite settings and when I get home I can eliminate any unwanted changes by reloading my known good config file. I use a battery for camping and field day but even there a connector can come unplugged and cause trouble to the config file. Troubles in the config file do not always show up right away as any memory spot can be damaged.

The config file can be spoiled by a fat finger when changing setting in the rig menu. It can also be spoiled when having trouble reloading firmware.

My recommendation is to keep the config file clean and ready. Battery backup may be used for other reasons such as finishing a QSO but it should not be used just to prevent config file problems.

Ken W0CZ w0cz at i29 dot net

Sent from my iPad

>
>
> Well, more good information. Maybe I stand corrected. It's been nearly 4 years since I have read the manual, and my memory may have read more into the statements than it should have.
>
> I refer to page 13, right hand column, halfway down, entitled "POWER". There is a note that reads "To ensure correct save of operating parameters, turn the K3 off /before/ turning the power supply off." When I read that, I thought about the short duration power failures we experience.
>
> I thought If I only use the battery for backup to shutdown, there should be a minimum of charging. I have been using a UPS on the AC supply, but I trust a float battery I can test on the DC. I may abandon the whole idea and stay with the UPS. Sometimes rejection is a good thing.
>
> Note: As I learn more about this radio, I appreciate the thought that went into it's design.
>
> Thanks for the posts, and the bandwidth.
>
> Dick, n0ce
>

Guy Olinger K2AV

Re: K3 13.8 VDC power

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

RV's all contain power supplies that are designed to use 120 volts from
either generator or park power, to provide fifty-sixty-ish DC amperage to
the 12 volt (13.8) rails and "house" batteries around the RV. RV's run a
LOT of stuff on 13.8: fridge controls, Air Cond. controls, fans, furnace,
lights, alarms, water pump, etc. The difference between these power
supplies and an automotive changer, is that the RV supplies are designed to
work with a deep cycle battery (often a pair of 6V T105's in series)
floating on the 12 volt rail, and have the 14.4 v bulk charge, 13.6 v
maintenance or "absorbtion" charge and 13.2 float settings logic built in.
The power supplies are also designed to provide up to charger max current
rating to the 12 volt rail once battery(s) are charged. Typical power
supply size for a pair of T105's is 55 or 65 amps, which will nicely power
a station with a pair of K3's plus a lot of 12v accessories. T105's are
more commonly known as pro golf cart batteries, with six in series a
typical battery array in a golf cart.

The power supply has to match the house batteries' rated max sustained
charge current. When "house" 12v draw plus battery charge current exceeds
the rated current, the power supply voltage drops to limit the current at
the rated amperage. This is what I have in my RV. Camping World prices for
these units can be beaten on the internet.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/wf-9800-series-converter-charger-55-amp/58324

My RV is a self-contained field day station that can put everything on the
12 volt rail.The generator or park power runs the microwave, the air
conditioning and the aforementioned RV 12v supply. The T105 house batteries
could easily handle a 2 x QRP entry for the 24 hours.

Using this kind of power supply at home to run a battery float system is
very easy, once the venting and safe location of batteries issue is
settled. The batteries and power supply can be quite a distance from the
shack if single aught copper is used to bus the current from battery to
shack and distribution/fuse device.

73, Guy.

>
>
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QUENTIN COLLIER

Re: K3 13.8 VDC power

In reply to this post by Richard Fjeld

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

________________________________
From: Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, 23 December 2014, 6:30
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 13.8 VDC power

Well, more good information. Maybe I stand corrected. It's been nearly 4 years since I have read the manual, and my memory may have read more into the statements than it should have.

I refer to page 13, right hand column, halfway down, entitled "POWER". There is a note that reads "To ensure correct save of operating parameters, turn the K3 off /before/ turning the power supply off." When I read that, I thought about the short duration power failures we experience.

Page 44 touches on updating the nonvolatile memory correctly before shut-down either by the power switch, or in this case a 'PS0;' command via the RS232 interface.

As you saw, there was a reply from a contester who had several power outages with multiple K3's without any troubles. That was good to learn of.

I thought If I only use the battery for backup to shutdown, there should be a minimum of charging. I have been using a UPS on the AC supply, but I trust a float battery I can test on the DC. I may abandon the whole idea and stay with the UPS. Sometimes rejection is a good thing.

Note: As I learn more about this radio, I appreciate the thought that went into it's design.

Thanks for the posts, and the bandwidth.

Dick, n0ce

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QUENTIN COLLIER

Re: K3 13.8 VDC power

Oops - sorry about the previous posting below....my cat Henry was "helping" me with my e-mails.

Anyway, a belated Happy Christmas and best wishes for 2015 to all readers of this most interesting list.

73, Quin G3WRR

________________________________
From: QUENTIN COLLIER <[hidden email]>
To: Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]>; "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, 26 December 2014, 9:07
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 13.8 VDC power

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

________________________________
From: Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, 23 December 2014, 6:30
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 13.8 VDC power

Well, more good information. Maybe I stand corrected. It's been nearly 4 years since I have read the manual, and my memory may have read more into the statements than it should have.

I refer to page 13, right hand column, halfway down, entitled "POWER". There is a note that reads "To ensure correct save of operating parameters, turn the K3 off /before/ turning the power supply off." When I read that, I thought about the short duration power failures we experience.

Page 44 touches on updating the nonvolatile memory correctly before shut-down either by the power switch, or in this case a 'PS0;' command via the RS232 interface.

As you saw, there was a reply from a contester who had several power outages with multiple K3's without any troubles. That was good to learn of.

I thought If I only use the battery for backup to shutdown, there should be a minimum of charging. I have been using a UPS on the AC supply, but I trust a float battery I can test on the DC. I may abandon the whole idea and stay with the UPS. Sometimes rejection is a good thing.

Note: As I learn more about this radio, I appreciate the thought that went into it's design.

Thanks for the posts, and the bandwidth.

Dick, n0ce

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David Cutter

Re: K3 13.8 VDC power, battery supplies

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Batteries are sensitive to their electrolyte temperature, some more than
others. If it is tempting to put batteries outside the shack for any
reason, take care of the temperature extremes they may experience in terms
of charge voltage etc. Inside a shack that is nice for us is also good for
the battery. See:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_at_high_and_low_temperatures

73

David
G3UNA

> Concerns about outgassing notwithstanding, I've never used anything more
> than the voltage regulator on the power supply to limit the charge, and
> I've always used ordinary deep cycle batteries. The key is to limit that
> voltage to what the battery expects, and to limit the charging current to
> what the battery will take as a "trickle" once it's reached full charge.
> Those are not difficult to do if you simply monitor battery voltage and
> charge current.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

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