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K3 6M operation

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rfenabled

K3 6M operation

Hi,

Well I just completed my first 6M contest this past weekend and found it quite good.

There was some time ago a lot of comments on the K3's sensitivity on 6M.

The result was Elecraft produced a pre-amp and not much comment has been seen since.

If anyone on the list is a 6m operator with a pre-amp it would be good if they could contact me off list and let me know what they think of running with or without the pre-amp...

I don't wish to clog the reflector with this topic.

Regards
Gary
VK4WT
Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra
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W7GJ, Lance

Re: K3 6M operation

Hi Gary,

You DEFINITELY need to use a high gain low noise external preamp if you are
interested in any weak signal work on 6m. If all you are interested in doing on
6m is woring strong Es or TE signals, then you can obviously get by without it. In
fact, you will probably be thrilled to be able to work everyone you can copy ;-)

But the noise figure of the K3 on 6m is over 13 dB, so you will benefit greatly by
adding a receive preamplifier. The one offered by Elecraft is a great unit, and is
what I use when operating portable during 6m EME DXpeditions.

GL and VY 73, Lance

> Hi,
>
> Well I just completed my first 6M contest this past weekend and found it quite good.
>
> There was some time ago a lot of comments on the K3's sensitivity on 6M.
>
> The result was Elecraft produced a pre-amp and not much comment has been seen since.
>
> If anyone on the list is a 6m operator with a pre-amp it would be good if they could contact me off list and let me know what they think of running with or without the pre-amp...
>
> I don't wish to clog the reflector with this topic.
>
> Regards
> Gary
> VK4WT
> Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

--
Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT 59834 USA
QTH: DN27UB
TEL: (406) 626-5728 URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815

Interested in 6m EME? Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME email!
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Jim Brown-10

Re: K3 6M operation

On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:23:22 +0000, Lance Collister wrote:

>You DEFINITELY need to use a high gain low noise external preamp
>if you are interested in any weak signal work on 6m.

Because this is a general interest topic, I'm responding to the
reflector. YES, unless you live in a really noisy QTH, you
definitely need an external preamp on 6M. Since I'm an OT on that
band, I already owned an ARR GaSFET preamp, and simply plugged it
into the RXOUT/RXIN patch point. It works quite well, and I'm sure
that the preamp that Elecraft sells does too.

73,

Jim K9YC

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Mike Reublin

Re: K3 6M operation

In reply to this post by rfenabled

I've got the preamp, but my antennae have been on the ground since I got
the K3. Going back up this weekend, and I'd definitely like to hear what
people have to say about it, so I'd appreciate the discussion being held
on the reflector.

73, Mike NF4L

[hidden email] wrote:

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Mike Harris

Re: K3 6M operation

G'day,

6M configuration:

5el Yagi at 50 feet, approx 150 feet of Ecoflex 10 coax 1.5-2dB
loss. K3 with PR6.

Antenna pointing north over the harbour and open country, no S-meter
reading but upon removal the antenna RX noise fell by 8-9dB as
displayed by the K3 dBV. (PRE and PR6 on, 400Hz bandwidth). It is
not always so quiet.

Monitoring beacon LU5EGY in Buenos Aires, approx 1900km distant.

In order of improving copy:

Pre PR6 Copy
N N Nil
Y N ESP Copied call with difficulty
N Y ESP+ Copied call easily
Y Y Easy copy

I tried the effect of NR with a setting of F1-2 and it was very
interesting. If the signal is very week then enabling NR
extinguished the CWT marker and nothing was heard. Only when the
CWT marker remained did NR have any noticeable effect on the signal.
In the above cascade of tests enabling NR resulted in a significant
improvement in ease of copy (quiet background) when both PRE and PR6
were on.

Further it was interesting to note that for me 400Hz BW was not the
best copy. Reducing BW to 50-150Hz (500Hz roofing) or increasing to
600-700Hz (2k7 roofing) was certainly much easier to listen to.
With the wider BW the residual noise was certainly less
harsh/granular, more smooth/rounded sounding. Sidetone frequency
600Hz.

Tuesday evening I had a QSL with a station in BA who was running 1W
to a simple wire antenna and was S9. I reduced output to 1W and was
also copied OK.

I hope this is of some use.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 6M operation

I've got the preamp, but my antennae have been on the ground since I
got
the K3. Going back up this weekend, and I'd definitely like to hear
what
people have to say about it, so I'd appreciate the discussion being
held
on the reflector.

73, Mike NF4L

[hidden email] wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Well I just completed my first 6M contest this past weekend and
> found it quite good.
>
> There was some time ago a lot of comments on the K3's sensitivity
> on 6M.
>
> The result was Elecraft produced a pre-amp and not much comment
> has been seen since.
>
> If anyone on the list is a 6m operator with a pre-amp it would be
> good if they could contact me off list and let me know what they
> think of running with or without the pre-amp...
>
> I don't wish to clog the reflector with this topic.
>
> Regards
> Gary
> VK4WT
> Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra

N5GE

Re: K3 6M operation

On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:58:39 -0300, "Mike Harris"
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>G'day,
>
>6M configuration:
>
>5el Yagi at 50 feet, approx 150 feet of Ecoflex 10 coax 1.5-2dB
>loss. K3 with PR6.

5 ele M2 Yagi at 50 ft, 70 ft of LMR600 coax 0.38 db loss. K3 with
PR6.

>
>Antenna pointing north over the harbour and open country, no S-meter
>reading but upon removal the antenna RX noise fell by 8-9dB as
>displayed by the K3 dBV. (PRE and PR6 on, 400Hz bandwidth). It is
>not always so quiet.
>
>Monitoring beacon LU5EGY in Buenos Aires, approx 1900km distant.
>
>In order of improving copy:
>
>Pre PR6 Copy
>N N Nil
>Y N ESP Copied call with difficulty
>N Y ESP+ Copied call easily
>Y Y Easy copy
>

[snip]

Mike,

I haven't done the extensive testing you did, but your findings
parallel my experiences with the PR6. I wish my 2m and 70cm preamp's
were as good as the PR6.

73,

Tom, N5GE

[hidden email]
K3 #806 with SUB RX, K3 #1055, PR6,
XV144, XV432, KRC2,
W1, 2 W2's and other small kits

1 K144XV on order

http://www.n5ge.com
http://www.swotrc.net

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Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

W0FK

Re: K3 6M operation

In reply to this post by rfenabled

I will add my voice to the unanimous "use a preamp" crowd.

I also run the PR6 on 6M, and agree it's an excellent preamp. It also integrates seamlessly with the K3, which isn't the case with a third party preamp. More often than not I also run the internal preamp as well. The internal preamp by itself typically isn't sufficient to make weaker signals copyable. When the e-skip signals are pounding in at 20 or more over 9, then I will back off the preamps as they're not needed and the extra gain overwhelms the front end.

73,

Lou, W0FK

rfenabled wrote

Hi,

Well I just completed my first 6M contest this past weekend and found it quite good.

There was some time ago a lot of comments on the K3's sensitivity on 6M.

The result was Elecraft produced a pre-amp and not much comment has been seen since.

If anyone on the list is a 6m operator with a pre-amp it would be good if they could contact me off list and let me know what they think of running with or without the pre-amp...

I don't wish to clog the reflector with this topic.

Regards
Gary
VK4WT
Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra
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St. Louis, MO

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that
genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

Mike Reublin

Re: K3 6M operation

In reply to this post by rfenabled

I installed the PR6, hooked up to the control line. I set up the CONFIG
menu. When I put the rig on 6M, and tap RX ANT to turn on the PR6, the
display shows RX and PRE.
Is the other preamp engaged at the same time? The PRE on the LCD can be
toggled by tapping the PRE button.

73, Mike NF4L

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Mike Reublin

Re: K3 6M operation

No one knows?

Mike wrote:

> I installed the PR6, hooked up to the control line. I set up the CONFIG
> menu. When I put the rig on 6M, and tap RX ANT to turn on the PR6, the
> display shows RX and PRE.
> Is the other preamp engaged at the same time? The PRE on the LCD can be
> toggled by tapping the PRE button.
>
> 73, Mike NF4L
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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>
>

wayne burdick

Re: K3 6M operation

Administrator

The PRE icon pertains only to the K3's internal preamp. I suggest
turning it off in most cases when you're using the PR6. Otherwise
you'll have more gain than necessary, possibly degrading dynamic
range. (With the PR6 on -- giving you an MDS of about -144 dBm --
turning on the internal preamp would provide only a small fraction of
a dB improvement.)

To turn the PR6 itself on, you need to turn on the RX ANT path (which
you have done), but you also have to power the preamp. You can leave
it powered all the time (via a jumper block, if I'm remembering
correctly), or (preferably) turn it on/off using the DIGOUT1 signal on
the 15-pin accessory jack. The PR6 manual should cover all of this.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Dec 4, 2009, at 10:32 AM, Mike wrote:

> No one knows?
>
> Mike wrote:
>> I installed the PR6, hooked up to the control line. I set up the
>> CONFIG
>> menu. When I put the rig on 6M, and tap RX ANT to turn on the PR6,
>> the
>> display shows RX and PRE.
>> Is the other preamp engaged at the same time? The PRE on the LCD
>> can be
>> toggled by tapping the PRE button.
>>
>> 73, Mike NF4L

Mike Reublin

Re: K3 6M operation

Thanks Wayne -
Is there a way to disconnect the internal preamp from the RX ANT button,
so that tapping the RX ANT button doesn't turn on the internal preamp?

Mike
Wayne Burdick wrote:

> The PRE icon pertains only to the K3's internal preamp. I suggest
> turning it off in most cases when you're using the PR6. Otherwise
> you'll have more gain than necessary, possibly degrading dynamic
> range. (With the PR6 on -- giving you an MDS of about -144 dBm --
> turning on the internal preamp would provide only a small fraction of
> a dB improvement.)
>
> To turn the PR6 itself on, you need to turn on the RX ANT path (which
> you have done), but you also have to power the preamp. You can leave
> it powered all the time (via a jumper block, if I'm remembering
> correctly), or (preferably) turn it on/off using the DIGOUT1 signal on
> the 15-pin accessory jack. The PR6 manual should cover all of this.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> On Dec 4, 2009, at 10:32 AM, Mike wrote:
>
>
>> No one knows?
>>
>> Mike wrote:
>>
>>> I installed the PR6, hooked up to the control line. I set up the
>>> CONFIG
>>> menu. When I put the rig on 6M, and tap RX ANT to turn on the PR6,
>>> the
>>> display shows RX and PRE.
>>> Is the other preamp engaged at the same time? The PRE on the LCD
>>> can be
>>> toggled by tapping the PRE button.
>>>
>>> 73, Mike NF4L
>>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

wayne burdick

Re: K3 6M operation

Administrator

Hi Mike,

The PRE setting is already stored separately in the RX ANT on and off
cases, on a per-band basis. (This is also the case for the K2.)

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Dec 4, 2009, at 10:56 AM, Mike wrote:

> Thanks Wayne -
> Is there a way to disconnect the internal preamp from the RX ANT
> button, so that tapping the RX ANT button doesn't turn on the
> internal preamp?
>
> Mike
> Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> The PRE icon pertains only to the K3's internal preamp. I suggest
>> turning it off in most cases when you're using the PR6. Otherwise
>> you'll have more gain than necessary, possibly degrading dynamic
>> range. (With the PR6 on -- giving you an MDS of about -144 dBm --
>> turning on the internal preamp would provide only a small fraction
>> of a dB improvement.)
>>
>> To turn the PR6 itself on, you need to turn on the RX ANT path
>> (which you have done), but you also have to power the preamp. You
>> can leave it powered all the time (via a jumper block, if I'm
>> remembering correctly), or (preferably) turn it on/off using the
>> DIGOUT1 signal on the 15-pin accessory jack. The PR6 manual should
>> cover all of this.
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>> On Dec 4, 2009, at 10:32 AM, Mike wrote:
>>
>>
>>> No one knows?
>>>
>>> Mike wrote:
>>>
>>>> I installed the PR6, hooked up to the control line. I set up the
>>>> CONFIG
>>>> menu. When I put the rig on 6M, and tap RX ANT to turn on the
>>>> PR6, the
>>>> display shows RX and PRE.
>>>> Is the other preamp engaged at the same time? The PRE on the LCD
>>>> can be
>>>> toggled by tapping the PRE button.
>>>>
>>>> 73, Mike NF4L
>>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: K3 6M operation

Administrator

In reply to this post by Mike Reublin

Just push the PRE button while RX ANT is enabled. That toggles it on/off
for the RX ANT path. It is remembered separately for this path.

73, Eric

Mike wrote:

> Thanks Wayne -
> Is there a way to disconnect the internal preamp from the RX ANT button,
> so that tapping the RX ANT button doesn't turn on the internal preamp?
>
> Mike
> Wayne Burdick wrote:
>
>> The PRE icon pertains only to the K3's internal preamp. I suggest
>> turning it off in most cases when you're using the PR6. Otherwise
>> you'll have more gain than necessary, possibly degrading dynamic
>> range. (With the PR6 on -- giving you an MDS of about -144 dBm --
>> turning on the internal preamp would provide only a small fraction of
>> a dB improvement.)
>>
>> To turn the PR6 itself on, you need to turn on the RX ANT path (which
>> you have done), but you also have to power the preamp. You can leave
>> it powered all the time (via a jumper block, if I'm remembering
>> correctly), or (preferably) turn it on/off using the DIGOUT1 signal on
>> the 15-pin accessory jack. The PR6 manual should cover all of this.
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>>

Mike Reublin

Re: K3 6M operation

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

OK! Thanks again Wayne.

74, Mike NF4L

Wayne Burdick wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> The PRE setting is already stored separately in the RX ANT on and off
> cases, on a per-band basis. (This is also the case for the K2.)
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> On Dec 4, 2009, at 10:56 AM, Mike wrote:
>
>> Thanks Wayne -
>> Is there a way to disconnect the internal preamp from the RX ANT
>> button, so that tapping the RX ANT button doesn't turn on the
>> internal preamp?
>>
>> Mike
>> Wayne Burdick wrote:
>>> The PRE icon pertains only to the K3's internal preamp. I suggest
>>> turning it off in most cases when you're using the PR6. Otherwise
>>> you'll have more gain than necessary, possibly degrading dynamic
>>> range. (With the PR6 on -- giving you an MDS of about -144 dBm --
>>> turning on the internal preamp would provide only a small fraction
>>> of a dB improvement.)
>>>
>>> To turn the PR6 itself on, you need to turn on the RX ANT path
>>> (which you have done), but you also have to power the preamp. You
>>> can leave it powered all the time (via a jumper block, if I'm
>>> remembering correctly), or (preferably) turn it on/off using the
>>> DIGOUT1 signal on the 15-pin accessory jack. The PR6 manual should
>>> cover all of this.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Wayne
>>> N6KR
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 4, 2009, at 10:32 AM, Mike wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> No one knows?
>>>>
>>>> Mike wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I installed the PR6, hooked up to the control line. I set up the
>>>>> CONFIG
>>>>> menu. When I put the rig on 6M, and tap RX ANT to turn on the
>>>>> PR6, the
>>>>> display shows RX and PRE.
>>>>> Is the other preamp engaged at the same time? The PRE on the LCD
>>>>> can be
>>>>> toggled by tapping the PRE button.
>>>>>
>>>>> 73, Mike NF4L
>>>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>>
>
>

Mike Reublin

Re: K3 6M operation

In reply to this post by Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Thanks Eric -

Works as programmed, and as I'd like!

73, Mike NF4L

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:

> Just push the PRE button while RX ANT is enabled. That toggles it
> on/off for the RX ANT path. It is remembered separately for this path.
>
> 73, Eric
>
>
> Mike wrote:
>> Thanks Wayne -
>> Is there a way to disconnect the internal preamp from the RX ANT
>> button, so that tapping the RX ANT button doesn't turn on the
>> internal preamp?
>>
>> Mike
>> Wayne Burdick wrote:
>>
>>> The PRE icon pertains only to the K3's internal preamp. I suggest
>>> turning it off in most cases when you're using the PR6. Otherwise
>>> you'll have more gain than necessary, possibly degrading dynamic
>>> range. (With the PR6 on -- giving you an MDS of about -144 dBm --
>>> turning on the internal preamp would provide only a small fraction
>>> of a dB improvement.)
>>>
>>> To turn the PR6 itself on, you need to turn on the RX ANT path
>>> (which you have done), but you also have to power the preamp. You
>>> can leave it powered all the time (via a jumper block, if I'm
>>> remembering correctly), or (preferably) turn it on/off using the
>>> DIGOUT1 signal on the 15-pin accessory jack. The PR6 manual should
>>> cover all of this.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Wayne
>>> N6KR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

Mike Harris

Re: K3 6M operation

In reply to this post by Mike Reublin

G'day Mike,

Control of the K3 internal pre-amp is independent of the PR6. That
is you can have neither, either or both. You should be able to hear
the difference.

RX ANT will switch the PR6 and PRE will switch the K3 internal
pre-amp.

If you are switching the PR6 using the CONFIG DIGOUT 1 setting note
that you have to enable it for each ANT if you have a KAT3
installed. You might not always use the same antenna port for 6M.
This wasn't mentioned in the PR6 paperwork and I had a deaf moment
until I figured that one out.

You can select CONFIG: DIGOUT 1 and toggle the ANT to check that
both are On.

I trust that answers your question.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 6M operation

> No one knows?
>
> Mike wrote:
>> I installed the PR6, hooked up to the control line. I set up the
>> CONFIG
>> menu. When I put the rig on 6M, and tap RX ANT to turn on the
>> PR6, the
>> display shows RX and PRE.
>> Is the other preamp engaged at the same time? The PRE on the LCD
>> can be
>> toggled by tapping the PRE button.
>>
>> 73, Mike NF4L

Mike Reublin

Re: K3 6M operation

Thanks Mike -

My questions have been amply and fully answered, except why turning on
the PR6 turned on the internal preamp as well. But since I now know how
to prevent that, all is good.

73, Mike(2) NF4L

Mike Harris wrote:

> G'day Mike,
>
> Control of the K3 internal pre-amp is independent of the PR6. That is
> you can have neither, either or both. You should be able to hear the
> difference.
>
> RX ANT will switch the PR6 and PRE will switch the K3 internal pre-amp.
>
> If you are switching the PR6 using the CONFIG DIGOUT 1 setting note
> that you have to enable it for each ANT if you have a KAT3 installed.
> You might not always use the same antenna port for 6M. This wasn't
> mentioned in the PR6 paperwork and I had a deaf moment until I figured
> that one out.
>
> You can select CONFIG: DIGOUT 1 and toggle the ANT to check that both
> are On.
>
> I trust that answers your question.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike VP8NO
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 3:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 6M operation
>
>
>> No one knows?
>>
>> Mike wrote:
>>> I installed the PR6, hooked up to the control line. I set up the CONFIG
>>> menu. When I put the rig on 6M, and tap RX ANT to turn on the PR6, the
>>> display shows RX and PRE.
>>> Is the other preamp engaged at the same time? The PRE on the LCD can be
>>> toggled by tapping the PRE button.
>>>
>>> 73, Mike NF4L
>
>