K3 BETA FIRMWARE RELEASE -- MCU rev 1.94

[Don Wilhelm-4]

Frank,

Try re-loading 1.94 also load the FPF and DSP at the same time.  There
may have been a glitch in your front panel firmware load, or you may not
have checked the FPF load checkbox.

73,
Don W3FPR

Frank Lammel wrote:

> I loaded rev 1.94 yesterday evening. My main problem is the not
> working VOX in 1.88. However it was more worse than with 1.88! Once
> set to VOX I couldn't set it back to PTT. It switched the whole time
> to TX, no matter what MIC gain settings I choosed. (Oh, I didn't tried
> the VOX gain, it is still at 35, maybe this would help?!). Well, also
> the TRX seemed to had some kind of other problems. All LEDs swichted
> to on and off again, the display get's dark and some relays clicked.
> Then it came back. This happened several times.
>
> Does anybody had similar problems? Or did I make another mistake?
>
> 73!
> Frank, DD7ZT
>

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[wayne burdick]

Frank Lammel wrote:

> I loaded rev 1.94 yesterday evening.....Does anybody had similar
> problems?

Hi Frank,

I'm very surprised that you had these problems with 1.94. The VOX issue
was addressed specifically, and many have said it works perfectly now.
So I suspect that either the MCU 1.94 or DSP 1.73 load didn't work
correctly.

I have an even newer revision (1.96) in field test right now that I'd
be happy to zip up and send to you if you'd like to re-try the load
process. I could use help evaluating this new code before I leave for
Dayton.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


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[Bob Cunnings NW8L]

I've been on the air for 25 years working 99% cw, and zero beating by
ear the whole time, thank you. Your condescending comments aren't
helpful in this case.

I appreciated the auto-spot feature since it saves time and was very
robust. *I* find that *this* cw op enjoyed using this particular zero
beating gizmo, advertised as a first tier feature of the K3.
Unfortunately performance regressed in the latest firmware version -
but it will be restored to its former glory only if the users offer
their feedback to the developers.

Bob NW8L

On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 5:47 AM, K3KO <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Guys,
>
> There is another way to solve the CW spot problem.
>
> It's called get on the air and work CW.  You will quickly develop the skill
> of zero beating by ear.
> You will find that most CW ops don't use any zero beating gizmo.  Much
> faster and easier to do it by ear.
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[John King-10]

I agree with Bob, NW8L's comments below.

I've been on the air 99% CW for 41 years and I use
Auto-spot. I can easily match tones to better than
10 cycles by ear, but why bother? Auto-spot is working
better in 1.94 Beta and I have every confidence that
it will only get better.

73,
  john WA1ABI

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Bob Cunnings
> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:25 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 BETA FIRMWARE RELEASE -- MCU rev 1.94
>
>
> I've been on the air for 25 years working 99% cw, and zero beating by
> ear the whole time, thank you. Your condescending comments aren't
> helpful in this case.
>
> I appreciated the auto-spot feature since it saves time and was very
> robust. *I* find that *this* cw op enjoyed using this particular zero
> beating gizmo, advertised as a first tier feature of the K3.
> Unfortunately performance regressed in the latest firmware version -
> but it will be restored to its former glory only if the users offer
> their feedback to the developers.
>
> Bob NW8L
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 5:47 AM, K3KO <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> > There is another way to solve the CW spot problem.
> >
> > It's called get on the air and work CW.  You will quickly
> develop the skill
> > of zero beating by ear.
> > You will find that most CW ops don't use any zero beating gizmo.  Much
> > faster and easier to do it by ear.
> _______________________________________________
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> Post to: [hidden email]
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>
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[W8YMO]

Bob,

Thanks for your work on this issue.  The early FW versions really, really
worked!  I found with the early versions I could use it, to great advantage,
for "search and pounce" in CW contests.  I generally use a PC audio
spectroscope to check my zero beat.  Most of the time the original version
would set the zero beat to within 0-3Hz.

Harrison  W8YMO
------------------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:elecraft-
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Cunnings
> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:25 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 BETA FIRMWARE RELEASE -- MCU rev 1.94
>
> I've been on the air for 25 years working 99% cw, and zero beating by
> ear the whole time, thank you. Your condescending comments aren't
> helpful in this case.
>
> I appreciated the auto-spot feature since it saves time and was very
> robust. *I* find that *this* cw op enjoyed using this particular zero
> beating gizmo, advertised as a first tier feature of the K3.
> Unfortunately performance regressed in the latest firmware version -
> but it will be restored to its former glory only if the users offer
> their feedback to the developers.
>
> Bob NW8L
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 5:47 AM, K3KO <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> > There is another way to solve the CW spot problem.
> >
> > It's called get on the air and work CW.  You will quickly develop the
> skill
> > of zero beating by ear.
> > You will find that most CW ops don't use any zero beating gizmo.
> Much
> > faster and easier to do it by ear.
> _______________________________________________
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[N5GE]

On Wed, 14 May 2008 08:25:07 -0600, NW8L wrote:

>I've been on the air for 25 years working 99% cw, and zero beating by
>ear the whole time, thank you. Your condescending comments aren't
>helpful in this case.
>
>I appreciated the auto-spot feature since it saves time and was very
>robust. *I* find that *this* cw op enjoyed using this particular zero
>beating gizmo, advertised as a first tier feature of the K3.
>Unfortunately performance regressed in the latest firmware version -
>but it will be restored to its former glory only if the users offer
>their feedback to the developers.
>
>Bob NW8L
>

[snip]

I'm surprised to hear that most say that within 20 to 100hz is good enough.
According to the log book, I have been working 85% CW for 32 years and I can
zero beat to 1 or 2 Hz accuracy by ear.  When working weak signals in QRN or
QRM, getting an exact zero beat is crucial if you want to have the best copy.  I
didn't have my K3 until after the 1.87 firmware, so didn't get to try it with
1.87, but if the original auto tune worked any better than the 1.92 version it
must have been very good indeed.

I've always been looking for a faster way to zero beat signals.  Thanks to
Elecraft for making it available!

Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq

"Those who would give up
Essential Liberty to
purchase a little Temporary
Safety deserve neither
Liberty nor Safety"

An excerpt from a letter
written in 1755 from the
Assembly to the Governor
of Pennsylvania.

Support the entire Constitution, not
just the parts you like.

http://www.n5ge.com
http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE

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[wayne burdick]

I'll restore it to its former glory, don't worry. But not until I get
back from Dayton.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

Harrison F. Hooker wrote:

> Bob,
>
> Thanks for your work on this issue.  The early FW versions really,
> really
> worked!  I found with the early versions I could use it, to great
> advantage,
> for "search and pounce" in CW contests.  I generally use a PC audio
> spectroscope to check my zero beat.  Most of the time the original
> version
> would set the zero beat to within 0-3Hz.

---

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[Barry N1EU]

Tom Childers, N5GE wrote

 When working weak signals in QRN or QRM, getting an exact zero beat is crucial if you want to have the best copy.

Why? (seriously)

73,
Barry N1EU

[Van W1WCG]

Greetings all,

After upgrading to f/w v1.94 and reading several comments on the list about
auto-zerobeat, I've deliberately used the feature on several CW nets with
all kinds of signals.  My overall impression is that it works just fine, but
it seems as if the time it uses to zerobeat has been reduced, so that while
adjusting a CW signal the function may stop during the space between
elements, even if it hasn't quite finished tuning.  Several times when I
tapped SPOT to zerobeat a CW signal, the tuning stopped short of zerobeat,
and required one or two more taps to get right on.  OTOH, this does not
happen when centering a steady carrier.  It just feels like the function
should listen and try a little longer during a space before deciding that
the signal is gone, or zerobeat has been achieved.

Just my $.02 worth....

Van, W1WCG

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[N5GE]

On Wed, 14 May 2008 08:37:10 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>
>
>Tom Childers, N5GE wrote:
>>
>>  When working weak signals in QRN or QRM, getting an exact zero beat is
>> crucial if you want to have the best copy.
>>
>
>Why? (seriously)
>
>73,
>Barry N1EU

You won't notice much difference in a wide filter greater than 1000hz, but with
narrower filters tuning to the exact zero beat will give the strongest signal to
the RX, especially if you reduce the filter's band width with DSP to 100hz or
less.  When you get down that narrow you may lose the signal if you're not right
on it.

I'm speaking from experience.  I have no scientific proof of this.  I could be
wrong in a scientific regard, but that's what works best for me.

How do you like your Alpha 99?

 
Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq

"Those who would give up
Essential Liberty to
purchase a little Temporary
Safety deserve neither
Liberty nor Safety"

An excerpt from a letter
written in 1755 from the
Assembly to the Governor
of Pennsylvania.

Support the entire Constitution, not
just the parts you like.

http://www.n5ge.com
http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE

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[John W2XS]

This type of response is why I think the K3 represents a low-risk investment. Hurry up UPS! (Mine is on the way).

73,  John W2XS

<quote author="wayne burdick">
I'll restore it to its former glory, don't worry. But not until I get
back from Dayton.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

[N5GE]

On Wed, 14 May 2008 08:21:59 -0700, you wrote:

>
>Good Morning Tom,
>
>>I can
>>zero beat to 1 or 2 Hz accuracy by ear.
>
>How do you know you are within 1 or 2 Hz?
>

In the Army they taught us to turn on the spot signal and tune the spot against
the received signal.  When you hear the warbling stop, you are zero beat on the
RX signal.

The warbling I'm speaking of will fewer beats per second as you get closer to
the RX frequency.  When the two frequencies are matched there will be no warble.
Sometimes with digital VFOs you can't get an exact match, but you should be able
to get it within one or 2 Hz.

Tuning for zero beat is the same method orchestras use to match the Concert
Masters note at the beginning of a concert, so it is very accurate.  It is also
the way piano tuners tune pianos with a tuning fork.

>>"Those who would give up
>>Essential Liberty to
>>purchase a little Temporary
>>Safety deserve neither
>>Liberty nor Safety"
>
>Love this and how right it is.

Yep, it will be more meaningful soon.

>
>
>73,
>
>Hank, W6SX
>
>Mammoth Lakes, California
>
>Elevation 8083 feet in John Muir's Range of Light

What a wonderful place to live.  I've never been there, but know it must be
beautiful.

Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq

"Those who would give up
Essential Liberty to
purchase a little Temporary
Safety deserve neither
Liberty nor Safety"

An excerpt from a letter
written in 1755 from the
Assembly to the Governor
of Pennsylvania.

Support the entire Constitution, not
just the parts you like.

http://www.n5ge.com
http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE

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[KM5Q]

Following are by-ear impressions:

The receive audio seems to have improved. Voices sound more natural  
and clear.

NR audio has improved. I used to turn it off and on and keep  
evaluating whether the noise reduction was worth the degradation in  
audio quality. Now I can forget sometimes that I have it on. Last  
night we had lightning crashes and I was amazed how well it took them  
out on 40m (although on that I can't compare from previous release).

CWT in my observation has not improved but we simply await Wayne's  
reverting to the older system soon (per his recent message).

Smiling,
Windy KM5Q
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[Bill W4ZV]

Tom Childers, N5GE wrote

On Wed, 14 May 2008 08:21:59 -0700, you wrote:
Tuning for zero beat is the same method orchestras use to match the Concert
Masters note at the beginning of a concert, so it is very accurate.  It is also
the way piano tuners tune pianos with a tuning fork.

True...very easy for anyone to do.  You can also watch the S-meter (an analog one is better) for minimum swings as the beat frequency is approached (same way pilots synchronize multiple engines BTW).

If you have good hearing, you can also match two tones separated in time.  Below is a website where you can test your ability to do that.  I think I got something like 0.4 Hz on the test which was in the upper 90s percentile.  If you have musical ability, you do this all the time as you adjust your instrument on-the-fly (e.g. positioning your fingers on a violin).

http://tonometric.com/adaptivepitch/  (there are a couple of other fun tests too!)

73,  Bill  W4ZV

[dave.wilburn]

It places your station in the middle of the other operators passband,
and has the best chance for them to hear you.  I have noticed this in
contests.  Some folks, especially with strong adjacent signals
(meaning they are probably running a filter) will hear you better and
respond quicker if you hit the middle of their passband.  It helps
with pile ups, DXepeditions, and especially if you are running QRP.


Dave Wilburn
K4DGW
K2/100 - S/N 5982
K3/100 - S/N 766

"For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will
never know."


Barry N1EU wrote:

>
> Tom Childers, N5GE wrote:
>>  When working weak signals in QRN or QRM, getting an exact zero beat is
>> crucial if you want to have the best copy.
>>
>
> Why? (seriously)
>
> 73,
> Barry N1EU

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[oe9fwv]

hi Frank,

Frank Lammel schrieb am 14 May 2008 um 9:28:

> I loaded rev 1.94 yesterday evening. My main problem is the not working VOX
> in 1.88. However it was more worse than with 1.88! Once set to VOX I
> couldn't set it back to PTT. It switched the whole time to TX, no matter
> what MIC gain settings I choosed. (Oh, I didn't tried the VOX gain, it is
> still at 35, maybe this would help?!). Well, also the TRX seemed to had
> some kind of other problems. All LEDs swichted to on and off again, the
> display get's dark and some relays clicked. Then it came back. This
> happened several times.
>
> Does anybody had similar problems? Or did I make another mistake?

I had a similar problem, but it occurred only once and I could not reproduce
it. It was like the issue with the missing ground of a Cap in the display unit.
When I pressed the PTT, the output went to 120 Watts (seen on my
Wattmeter) and my voice could not be heard (I tried to answer a CQ call)
Switching off and on the rig cured the problem.

73! de Werner OE9FWV



--
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the same outfits. Wear them one day after your boss does. (This is
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[N5GE]

On Wed, 14 May 2008 10:22:05 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>
>
>
>Tom Childers, N5GE wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 14 May 2008 08:21:59 -0700, you wrote:
>> Tuning for zero beat is the same method orchestras use to match the
>> Concert
>> Masters note at the beginning of a concert, so it is very accurate.  It is
>> also
>> the way piano tuners tune pianos with a tuning fork.
>>
>
>True...very easy for anyone to do.  You can also watch the S-meter (an
>analog one is better) for minimum swings as the beat frequency is approached
>(same way pilots synchronize multiple engines BTW).
>
>If you have good hearing, you can also match two tones separated in time.
>Below is a website where you can test your ability to do that.  I think I
>got something like 0.4 Hz on the test which was in the upper 90s percentile.
>If you have musical ability, you do this all the time as you adjust your
>instrument on-the-fly (e.g. positioning your fingers on a violin).

[snip]

Another way to make zero beating on CW even more accurate is to turn the AGC
off, but if you do this don't forget to turn the AF gain down before you do!

73,

Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq

"Those who would give up
Essential Liberty to
purchase a little Temporary
Safety deserve neither
Liberty nor Safety"

An excerpt from a letter
written in 1755 from the
Assembly to the Governor
of Pennsylvania.

Support the entire Constitution, not
just the parts you like.

http://www.n5ge.com
http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE

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[DD7ZT]

Hi all,

problem described below is now fixed. Tnx to Wayne for the support by
email! I loaded the newest beta without any problems. Did some tests
yesterday evening. VOX works again. Everything I use seems to be fine. I
guess I had some problems during the update which wasn't successful. I
couldn't reproduce it. So let's go on playing and work some new band
points ;-)

73 to all & tnx for all answers!

Frank, DD7ZT




Frank Lammel schrieb:

> I loaded rev 1.94 yesterday evening. My main problem is the not working
> VOX in 1.88. However it was more worse than with 1.88! Once set to VOX I
> couldn't set it back to PTT. It switched the whole time to TX, no matter
> what MIC gain settings I choosed. (Oh, I didn't tried the VOX gain, it
> is still at 35, maybe this would help?!). Well, also the TRX seemed to
> had some kind of other problems. All LEDs swichted to on and off again,
> the display get's dark and some relays clicked. Then it came back. This
> happened several times.
>
> Does anybody had similar problems? Or did I make another mistake?
>
> 73!
> Frank, DD7ZT
>
>
>
> wayne burdick schrieb:
>> Thanks to your input on the last firmware release (1.88), we've made a
>> number of important improvements.
>>
>> For the first time, we're posting new firmware as "beta." Upgrading is
>> optional: if you want to minimize your risk, you might want to wait
>> until we've blessed it as a normal production firmware release. (Or
>> until all your friends have it and you're a little jealous.)
>>
>> We'd love to have as many thrill-seekers as possible take the plunge
>> and load the new firmware now. We think it's greatly improved, and it
>> will certainly clear up many of the issues noted over the past week.
>> Even though we're headed to Dayton in a couple of days, we'll be
>> monitoring closely for any additional issues.
>>
>> For release notes and instructions on how to load beta firmware,
>> please see:
>>
>>   http://www.elecraft.com/K3/k3_software.htm
>>
>> The instructions (linked from within the release notes) explain how to
>> create a separate folder for the beta revision. This will allow you to
>> easily revert to an older revision if you find it necessary. Hopefully
>> not!
>>
>> For your convenience I've also provide the release notes below.
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>> * * *
>>
>> MCU 1.94 / DSP 1.73, 5-12-08
>>
>>   * VOX: Increased sensitivity. Typical VOX GN settings now ~30-50.
>>
>>   * VOICE MONITOR: Eliminated “scratchy” artifacts with compression
>> set to high levels.
>>
>>   * FM DEVIATION ADJUSTABLE:  Use CONFIG:FM DEV menu entry (default:
>> 5.0 kHz).
>>
>>   * Flash memory driver improved to prevent occasional receive
>> dropouts, “ERR PL1”, and
>>     “FPF LOAD PENDING” messages.
>>
>>   * XMIT SWITCH IN MENU: Tapping XMIT while in menu correctly
>> starts/ends transmit.
>>
>>   * PASSBAND SHIFT BELOW “0.00” CORRECTED: The SHIFT control no longer
>> allows
>>     continued rotation below 0.00. (This was occurring only with
>> sidetone pitch < 500 Hz.)
>>
>>   * SQUELCH/RF GAIN CONTROL CHANGES: By default, the RF/SQL concentric
>> pots
>>     control main and subreceiver RF gain, and squelch is controlled by
>> two CONFIG menu
>>     entries (SQ MAIN and SQ SUB). But setting SQ MAIN to "=SUB POT"
>> assigns
>>     SUB RF/SQL pot to both main and sub squelch, and in this case, the
>> main RF/SQL
>>     pot controls both main and sub RF gain. Setting SQ MAIN back to a
>> numeric value
>>     restores the default assignments. Note: Squelch applies only to FM
>> mode at present.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> http://www.elecraft.com
>>
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[David Woolley (E.L)]

Tom Childers, N5GE wrote:
>
> In the Army they taught us to turn on the spot signal and tune the spot against
> the received signal.  When you hear the warbling stop, you are zero beat on the
> RX signal.

That's easy if you are trying to tune against a continuous carrier, but
you are normally tuning against a signal that is being 100% amplitude
modulated at about 10 to 30 baud (12 to 36 wpm).  It gets quite
difficult to separate the amplitude modulation from the keying from that
from the beating.

--
David Woolley
"The Elecraft list is a forum for the discussion of topics related to
Elecraft products and more general topics related ham radio"
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[alsopb]

Dave,

I don't agree with your conclusion at all.  It just takes practice.   If
you're having trouble crank the filter width of the DSP to a narrow
setting and tune until the signal peaks.  That will be close enough.    
The extraneous signals from other stations and noise  within wide filter
settings are much more of a problem than the on off nature of CW.

Having to accurately zero beat is much over rated, in my opinion.

The practice and "requirement" to zero beat really came from the old
days where rigs drifted like crazy.  One had to start near zero beat to
have a chance to be heard.  It wasn't at all uncommon to drift
completely out of the RX passband while calling a station.   In fact,
older more skilled ops knew which direction the rig drifted.  They would
include this knowledge and start calling off frequency so that the drift
would bring then to and through zero beat while calling.   It also was
much more relevant when there was only a single answering station.  Now
the name of the game is to stand out somehow-- be it strongest or most
in the clear.    

"Call them where they are listening"  really applies.   I frankly don't
see the practicality of using the auto zero beat function when a station
is listening on ever changing frequencies that are not zero beat.   Thus
there is also an "art" aspect to working stations.  

Of course we're talking CW here.   Interesting that nobody is
complaining about not being able to zero beat in SSB.  I frankly find
that a much more challenging exercise.  It certainly is mentally much
more complex.   The algorithm seems to be tune until it sounds "right".  
Same with CW.
One has to experiment to define "right"

73 de Brian/K3KO


David Woolley (E.L) wrote:

> Tom Childers, N5GE wrote:
>
>>
>> In the Army they taught us to turn on the spot signal and tune the
>> spot against
>> the received signal.  When you hear the warbling stop, you are zero
>> beat on the
>> RX signal.
>
>
> That's easy if you are trying to tune against a continuous carrier,
> but you are normally tuning against a signal that is being 100%
> amplitude modulated at about 10 to 30 baud (12 to 36 wpm).  It gets
> quite difficult to separate the amplitude modulation from the keying
> from that from the beating.
>

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