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K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date

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dhhdeh

K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date

Hi Everyone,

In hanging around the K3 booth in Dayton this year (some would say I was
'lurking' around the booth) I overheard several K3 prospective owners
pressing Wayne on the absence of dedicated bandswitches and bandstacking
registers.

Having been a user of Icom and Ten Tec gear for many years, I too admit
that this was one of my reservations when first considering my K3
purchase over a year ago.

Now after almost four months of K3 use, I wanted to past a comment
directed at those considering a K3 who believe that this issue may be a
deal breaker.

IMO it is not.

It takes a bit of time and study to adapt to this approach of Elecraft's
UI, but the K3 has some remarkable and flexible alternatives.

Over the years I have never had much use for transceiver memories as
implemented by most JA manufacturers, but he K3' approach to memories
and their flexibility is awesome once you master them. Between general
memories, memories assignable to the number keys and the 'within band'
memories you can quickly replicate something very similar to dedicated
bandswitches. One of the best tutorials on this is found on the K3 Wiki
website. If you have not discovered it you should look it up.

Having now programed the K3's number keys as memories for a portion of
each band and the 'within band' memories (M1-M4) to another portion of
the same band, I have something approaching dedicated bandswitches. It
took a while to discover how to do this but now changing bands is second
nature. I almost never use the K3 up and down bandswitch any more, The
programmable memories are just that much quicker.

I had a talk with Wayne about this at Dayton. He asked if I would
consider sharing my personal comments on the reflector. Thus my post here.

If at some time in the future when the K3 wish list has shrunken down,
should Elecraft develop an outboard combination keypad/bandswitch along
the lines of what Icom offered for the venerable IC-751A way back, I'm
sure some of us would welcome it but until then I find the use of
programmed memories for bandswitching to be just fine.

My $.02

YMMV

73 de N1LQ-Dave

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N4LQ-2

Re: K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date

Dave: (Another fine LQ)
I'd still prefer the ICOM/TenTec method of bandswitch but maybe once we get
the LP-Pan and PowerSDR running full time, band changing will be 'point and
click'. I plan to use a dedicated PC for the K3 and a separate PC for
internet and other forms of entertainment. I know many people who have Flex
rigs do the same. If this system works as it should, the K3 would like using
a Flex5000 but with a cw transmitter that works as it should. The LP-PAN
should provide even more entertainment as a separate receiver although I'm
not sure how one will switch the tuning between the K3 and the PAN. Perhaps
this will all come clear once we get these gadgets hooked up.
Steve Ellington
[hidden email]
----- Original Message -----
From: "David and Dianne on Comcast" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 9:04 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date

> Hi Everyone,
>
> In hanging around the K3 booth in Dayton this year (some would say I was
> 'lurking' around the booth) I overheard several K3 prospective owners
> pressing Wayne on the absence of dedicated bandswitches and bandstacking
> registers.
>
> Having been a user of Icom and Ten Tec gear for many years, I too admit
> that this was one of my reservations when first considering my K3
> purchase over a year ago.
>
> Now after almost four months of K3 use, I wanted to past a comment
> directed at those considering a K3 who believe that this issue may be a
> deal breaker.
>
> IMO it is not.
>
> It takes a bit of time and study to adapt to this approach of Elecraft's
> UI, but the K3 has some remarkable and flexible alternatives.
>
> Over the years I have never had much use for transceiver memories as
> implemented by most JA manufacturers, but he K3' approach to memories
> and their flexibility is awesome once you master them. Between general
> memories, memories assignable to the number keys and the 'within band'
> memories you can quickly replicate something very similar to dedicated
> bandswitches. One of the best tutorials on this is found on the K3 Wiki
> website. If you have not discovered it you should look it up.
>
> Having now programed the K3's number keys as memories for a portion of
> each band and the 'within band' memories (M1-M4) to another portion of
> the same band, I have something approaching dedicated bandswitches. It
> took a while to discover how to do this but now changing bands is second
> nature. I almost never use the K3 up and down bandswitch any more, The
> programmable memories are just that much quicker.
>
> I had a talk with Wayne about this at Dayton. He asked if I would
> consider sharing my personal comments on the reflector. Thus my post here.
>
> If at some time in the future when the K3 wish list has shrunken down,
> should Elecraft develop an outboard combination keypad/bandswitch along
> the lines of what Icom offered for the venerable IC-751A way back, I'm
> sure some of us would welcome it but until then I find the use of
> programmed memories for bandswitching to be just fine.
>
> My $.02
>
> YMMV
>
> 73 de N1LQ-Dave
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

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W6NEK

Re: K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date

Hi Steve,
With LP-PAN, Ham Radio Deluxe and PowerSDR, K3 rig control is indeed "point
and click" You can change bands on the K3 buy clicking on the associated
band buttons in PowerSDR. In addition, PowerSDR provides 3 band registers
per band (aka Icom). You can change modes and frequency by pointing and
clicking in the panadapter display or you can "click and drag" and watch the
K3 change frequency. Any displayed signal in the panadapter that enters the
"green" vertical column represents the selected passband of the K3 and can
be heard on the K3 speaker. To "switch" tuning from PowerSDR to the K3
requires NO action because rig control is full duplex. Turn the freq dial
on the K3 and the PowerSDR panadapter display is updated in real time. You
can change bands, modes, etc on the K3 and PowerSDR is updated. On top of
all that, PowerSDR is a full featured SDR dual channel receiver. Connect a
set of speakers to your computer sound card and you can listen to 3 in-band
frequencies at once (one on the K3 and two via PowerSDR). PowerSDR also
provides variable bandwidth, Noise Reduction, Noise Blanking and popular
modes on it's built in SDR receiver. If you already own a shack computer
for logging, then the addition of LP-PAN and PowerSDR is very worthwhile.
As you say, it's like having a Flex5000 with a K3 control panel, truly the
best of both worlds!

LP-PAN: http://www.telepostinc.com/LP-PAN.html
PowerSDR/IF Stage: http://www.wu2x.com/sdr.html#powersdr
Ham Radio Deluxe: http://www.ham-radio-deluxe.com/

We owe a lot to the people who have created the outstanding software
programs linked above. Thank you Messer's Scott McClements and Simon Brown!
And of course Larry Phipps (N8LP) for his LP-PAN hardware. Let's see, did I
miss somebody? Of course, the entire team at Elecraft for designing the K3
which has brought back the fun in my HAM radio operating!

Best 73,
Frank - W6NEK

----- Original Message -----
From: "n4lq" <[hidden email]>
To: "David and Dianne on Comcast" <[hidden email]>;
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date

> Dave: (Another fine LQ)
> I'd still prefer the ICOM/TenTec method of bandswitch but maybe once we
> get the LP-Pan and PowerSDR running full time, band changing will be
> 'point and click'. I plan to use a dedicated PC for the K3 and a separate
> PC for internet and other forms of entertainment. I know many people who
> have Flex rigs do the same. If this system works as it should, the K3
> would like using a Flex5000 but with a cw transmitter that works as it
> should. The LP-PAN should provide even more entertainment as a separate
> receiver although I'm not sure how one will switch the tuning between the
> K3 and the PAN. Perhaps this will all come clear once we get these gadgets
> hooked up.
> Steve Ellington

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KM5Q

Re: K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date

In reply to this post by dhhdeh

I posted this idea on May 9. I got several favorable replies and
thanks for it. I still find it very efficient, so I offer this again.
There is plenty more memory space left to add data "bands".

---------------------------------

A complete BAND SWITCHING scheme using 23 memories

I tried using the quick memories 0-9 to store band data, modes,
filters, and other parameters (Douglas Zweibel's message of March 10).
Then I thought about how most bands are split into CW and phone sub-
bands that need separate mode and filter settings. So, I took it a
step further. I offer this as a universal band management scheme.

I assigned each CW and phone band to a separate memory number,
starting with memory 10. These are selected by VFO A (with the help of
text labels). I set VFO A to the bottom of the (CW or phone) sub-band,
and VFO B to the top of that sub-band. That enables band scanning
(Manual p. 37). And of course, I set modes and filters appropriately.

I labeled each memory like this, starting with #10:

10. "160C" -- the 160m CW portion
11. "160S" -- the 160m (SSB) phone portion
12. " 80 C"
13. " 80 S"
14. " *60 1" -- on 60m, the last digit is the "channel number" (1-5)
15. " *60 2" The *asterisk sets up channel-hop scanning
(Manual p.37)
(not yet enabled in firmware)
... etc.,
ending with:
33. " 6 S" -- the 6m phone band

Quick memories M1-M4 supplement these entries PER-BAND. For 20-10m, I
set the DX beacon frequencies to M4. M1-M3 are open for quick entries,
nets, etc.

This set-up took me about an hour, but it's good learning practice! I
now have instant reference to ALL my band boundaries, right on my K3
screen.

So, how does it play? Tap M>V and the big knob becomes a super band
switch (without detents). You want speed? Duplicate just your favorite
bands onto any quick memories 0-9. Memories 10-33 remain, keeping ALL
the bands stored for you. If (when) you tap V>M by mistake and
override a quick memory (!) you can find it again, with all your
settings, and transfer it back to the quick memory.

2. To hop bands with instant return to the same frequency, don't
forget the original BAND switch!

56 non-quick memories remain available. I set one for CB (11m USA
Citizen's Band) -- Why not? I can scan it to check for 10m skip. I can
use others for SWL bands or favorite broadcast stations (one on VFO A
and another on VFO B).

Now I fully enjoy the navigation capability of the K3.

Windy KM5Q
Santa Fe, NM
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S Sacco

Re: K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date

In reply to this post by dhhdeh

When I want to QSY to 6 meters, I expect to punch a button that says
"6M" or "50". If a friend comes over to operate my K3, I don't want
to have to point to a yellow sticky note hanging from a shelf, and
then spend 10 minutes briefing them on the intricacies of using the
user-programmed memories.

This issue isn't about finding other clever ways to institute a common
and expected function; it's about justifying Elecraft's choice to
package the radio in a specific footprint. For its size, the
ergonomics are excellent, but it's about 2" too narrow. With that
extra 2", they could have fit a keypad.

IMHO.

73,
Steve NN4X

On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 9:04 PM, David and Dianne on Comcast
<[hidden email]> wrote:

w7aqk

Re: K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date

Steve and All,

A point well taken Steve. But setting up the the memories this way (if
really deemed necessary!) is an owner convenience really. And if you don't
use it yourself enough to do it without a "sticky note", then it probably
wasn't that convenient in the first place. If I had set it up this way, and
a friend wanted to use the radio, I'd just tell him to use the regular
bandswitch buttons. A visitor will have enough trouble operating any
strange rig, so you don't want to add to the problem with operating tricks
the radio allows you to implement--at least not initially.

I'm a little mystified by the "passion" some folks seem to have about
accelerating the band switching process. Do you really switch bands that
much? I suppose some do. And my judgement may be tainted a bit right now
by the lack of activity on a bunch of the bands higher up. For me, I'm
usually just going between 3, or maybe 4 bands, which are all contiguous on
the band rotation. Pushing the up/down bandswitch works pretty well for
that. I'm just grateful they put both an up and down switch on the K3
instead of making you rotate all the way through like you have to do on rigs
like the Argonaut V. When I had one of those radios, I found it very
frustrating to have to go all the way around to get from 30 meters back to
40 meters. I sort of solved that by putting one VFO on one band, and the
other VFO on the other. Then I could just use the A/B button.

Nonetheless, I suspect that you are more or less correct that a couple more
inches or so on the front panel would have accomodated a bandswitching
keypad. It might have accomodated 2 or 3 more knobs as well for other
things. But it would have added considerably to the volume of the radio.
For some this would have been a good thing, and for others it would have
been a waste. I suspect all of us have at least 1 or 2 changes we would
like to see in the K3. Problem is, our wish lists probably don't always
match up very consistently. The process of deciding how to design a radio
like this seems very complex to me. Just think about how many questions
need to be considered regarding each control and feature. It really
suggests some powerful product/market research is needed, and to be honest,
I don't think Elecraft is big enough to provide/engage/conduct this type of
study. So, we end up with someone's (Wayne's mostly I suppose) best guess.
And it sure won't be perfect. Wayne did a pretty good job I think, but it
"ain't" perfect! But thank goodness he's an operator, in addition to being
the designer, so he didn't saddle us with a multitude of compromises like
Yaesu does perhaps? Then there are radios like Ten-Tec Orions, and Icom
7700/7800's, that put everything under the sun on front panel. But look at
the size of those radios! You almost have to renovate your operating desk
to accomodate them. And when you look inside of one of them one of the
first things you notice is a ton of wasted space. But, if you aren't going
to be moving the radio around much, that's very possibly quite acceptable.

The K3 is a compact (but not too compact?), but reasonably "full featured",
radio. A lot of things were left out though, and many of them will perhaps
be incorporated in the "K4"! The K3 was a substantial improvement on the
K2, and the K4 will be a substantial improvement on the K3. If the next set
of changes aren't all that substantial, they might just call it the "K3A" I
don't even know if a "K4" is on the drawing board, but I bet pieces of it at
least are already in Wayne's head. A keypad band entry may very will be
high on the list. I'd almost bet a bandscope is high on the list. QRO
folks will be glad to learn that, out of the box, it will have provision for
negative ALC! I'm being a bit facetious, but I would probably like having
these features myself--some "just in case", but appreciated nonetheless. We
are all still looking for the "perfect" radio. If and when you think you
have found it, you can bet that a bunch of others will be loudly lamenting
that it doesn't have this or that. My advice to folks who are excessively
frustrated by omissions on the K3 is to start dropping your loose change in
a cookie jar to save up for the K4. A friend of mine recently told me he
saved up nearly $1200 by just dropping the quarters in a jar he got in
change, mostly from stopping after work for a beer! This made me realize a
couple of things:

1. You can really save a bunch of money by doing this with loose change;
2. My friend probably drinks too much!

Nevertheless, I think you have plenty of time.

Dave W7AQK

----- Original Message -----
From: "S Sacco" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 4:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date

> When I want to QSY to 6 meters, I expect to punch a button that says
> "6M" or "50". If a friend comes over to operate my K3, I don't want
> to have to point to a yellow sticky note hanging from a shelf, and
> then spend 10 minutes briefing them on the intricacies of using the
> user-programmed memories.
>
> This issue isn't about finding other clever ways to institute a common
> and expected function; it's about justifying Elecraft's choice to
> package the radio in a specific footprint. For its size, the
> ergonomics are excellent, but it's about 2" too narrow. With that
> extra 2", they could have fit a keypad.
>
> IMHO.
>
> 73,
> Steve NN4X
>
>
> On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 9:04 PM, David and Dianne on Comcast
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> In hanging around the K3 booth in Dayton this year (some would say I was
>> 'lurking' around the booth) I overheard several K3 prospective owners
>> pressing Wayne on the absence of dedicated bandswitches and bandstacking
>> registers.
>>
>> Having been a user of Icom and Ten Tec gear for many years, I too admit
>> that
>> this was one of my reservations when first considering my K3 purchase
>> over a
>> year ago.
>>
>> Now after almost four months of K3 use, I wanted to past a comment
>> directed
>> at those considering a K3 who believe that this issue may be a deal
>> breaker.
>>
>> IMO it is not.
>>
>> It takes a bit of time and study to adapt to this approach of Elecraft's
>> UI,
>> but the K3 has some remarkable and flexible alternatives.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

Craig Smith

RE: K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date

<> I'm a little mystified by the "passion" some folks seem to have about
<> accelerating the band switching process. Do you really switch bands that
<> much? I suppose some do.

The issue (at least for me) isn't speed. The issue is reliability and user
friendliness.

The reason why so many of us are concocting band-switching mechanisms using
the various memory options is that the supplied band switch buttons, at
least with the present firmware, can become corrupted with other frequencies
when listening outside the ham bands. I find this unsettling. In my
opinion there are at least two controls on a ham rig that should be totally
intuitive, robust and definitive in their operation - the on/off switch and
the band switch. The band switch, in its present form, does not meet these
criteria.

For the K4 I would recommend a dedicated switch with detents, tactile/audio
feedback, a DEDICATED keypad or some other method of accomplishing this.
For the K3, I am hopeful that a future firmware release will make the
current band switch operate as expected as well as provide for a convenient
method for shortwave listening and general "browsing".

... Craig AC0DS

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