Elecraft › [K3]

K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03: "CW+" mode (Ultra-fast break-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM)

Classic

List

Threaded

33 messages Options

ussv dharma

Contest cw speed and a ham since 1952

Peoples:
I operate from quite a few dx spots....I have been on the air steady since 1952,,,call me old fashioned,....call me crotchedy...BUT....I never , ever answer or qso with a high speed cw station that does not slow down to my speed.

Yes I do 35wpm, but I prever 20.....sorry, had to vent my spleen somewhere.

My, My, there are a lot of lids on the air today....but then most of them do not know what lid refers to.

Susan (Old lady of 76 years)

If you don't change direction you WILL arrive exactly where you're headed!! Susan Meckley, Skipper W7KFI-mm AFA9SM USSV DHARMA

--- On Sat, 6/19/10, Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03: "CW+" mode (Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM)
> To: "The Smiths" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 6:09 AM
> For speeds that people can send with
> a bug (usually) the regular CW
> seems to work quite fine. CW plus is primarily intended to
> support
> very fast speeds, often heard now with operators sending
> with
> keyboards and other electronic keying devices.
>
> Debouncing a bug to prevent false starts when someone has
> poor
> contacts on one side is not one of the design goals for CW
> plus I've
> heard passed about, though the buffering of keying circuits
> used in
> most transmitters now has a small amount of debouncing
> effect which
> has likely been hiding the glitch. This would include the
> regular CW
> of the K3.
>
> With CW plus, however, that small false start has to be
> taken as
> legitimate, because pausing a small amount to "make sure"
> that the
> operator really means it, would make high speed CW sound
> jerky. CW
> plus was made to faithfully reproduce the keying at very
> high speeds,
> and has to take the blip seriously.
>
> Cleaning and proper adjustment of bug contacts were always
> needed in
> the day, because the condition you are talking about would
> result in
> scratchy keying...which was never blamed on the
> transmitter, only on
> the op who was not keeping his bug "greased". The
> need is greater now
> because noone is keying the +100V or more found on the old
> open
> cathode circuits any more, and bad bug contacts will easier
> bother a
> mere 12 volts on the key, and bother 5 volts even worse.
>
> 73, Guy.
>
> On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 11:11 AM, The Smiths <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > I've noticed this as well. For me it's a "Tick"
> sound EVERY time I hit the Dah side of my bug. Nothing on
> the dit side, regardless of the speed or preasure.
> >
> > I thought at first it was the force that I was using..
> So I tried pushing the lever slowly and carefully against
> the Dah contact, and it didn't make the sound.. So then I
> tried lighting my touch on the dah side while I was sending,
> and sure enough it was still there.
> >
> > So, I switched from my Begali Intrepid to my Vibroplex
> Original, and then I found that the ticking sound was GONE
> all together! Now I'm competely confused. What does the
> one dah side have that the other bug's doesn't??? Gold
> Contacts? A bad ground connection? More surface contact
> area, a larger area? You tell me.
> >
> >
> >
> > I LOVE the new QSK (QRQ), but if I had to deal with
> that Tick sound on the dah contact, I would just not use it.
> Shame.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 05:37:18 -0700
> >> From: [hidden email]
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware Rev.
> 4.03: "CW+" mode (Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM)
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, I noticed this on my bug also. This happens
> almost entirely on
> >> characters that start with a 'dah'. I think this
> is because the index finger
> >> is off the paddle between characters and the
> initial attack is a little more
> >> forceful. Subsequent dahs in the same character
> sound fine, but that first
> >> one has a 'tick' (a spike by the sound of it). No
> problem at all with the
> >> dits.
> >>
> >> BTW, I don't think this is a matter of bug
> adjustment; you can get the same
> >> effect by tapping down on a straight key from a
> slight distance. So it is a
> >> matter of technique. I can avoid it on the bug by
> keeping my index finger
> >> resting against the paddle all the time and
> avoiding that first hard strike,
> >> but can't send as well that way; maybe with
> practice...
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Drew
> >> AF2Z
> >
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and
> e-mail from your inbox.
> > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

drewko

Re: K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03: "CW+" mode (Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM)

In reply to this post by Cookie

Hi Cookie,

I have seen that video and it is well beyond the degree of motion that
I use on the bug.

In fact, I have a Viz right-angle bug which is a lighter key and
requires a lighter touch than the typical Vibroplex. And I use it
without benefit of any epoxy, superglue, and/or anchor bolts holding
it down to the desk as a lot of bug users seem to do. If I was really
"slamming" it like in the video it would walk off the desk in short
order, haha!

Even so, that slight initial tap on the leading dahs is enough to make
my K3 go "TICK"!

73,
Drew
AF2Z

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:05:52 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Drew, you have been watching the lady operator with the long finger nails on the Night-of-Nights Utube video too much. You don't need all that hand waving and finger motion to send with a bug!
> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
>K5EWJ
>
>
>
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

ussv dharma

Did I do right

I know this is off topic, but this seems to be the only place where people know what they are talking about.

I tried IE8....hate it.....couldnt get rid of it....so I downloaded firefox.

Did I do right using firefox instead of trying to find ie7

Susan

If you don't change direction you WILL arrive exactly where you're headed!! Susan Meckley, Skipper W7KFI-mm AFA9SM USSV DHARMA

--- On Sat, 6/19/10, drewko <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: drewko <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03: "CW+" mode (Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM)
> To: "WILLIS COOKE" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Date: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 10:16 AM
> Hi Cookie,
>
> I have seen that video and it is well beyond the degree of
> motion that
> I use on the bug.
>
> In fact, I have a Viz right-angle bug which is a lighter
> key and
> requires a lighter touch than the typical Vibroplex. And I
> use it
> without benefit of any epoxy, superglue, and/or anchor
> bolts holding
> it down to the desk as a lot of bug users seem to do. If I
> was really
> "slamming" it like in the video it would walk off the desk
> in short
> order, haha!
>
> Even so, that slight initial tap on the leading dahs is
> enough to make
> my K3 go "TICK"!
>
>
> 73,
> Drew
> AF2Z
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:05:52 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:
>
> >Drew, you have been watching the lady operator with the
> long finger nails on the Night-of-Nights Utube video too
> much. You don't need all that hand waving and finger
> motion to send with a bug!
> > Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> >K5EWJ
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

K5DNL

Re: Did I do right

Hello,

I have been using Firefox for two years and Like it.

73 Ken K5DNL
---------------------------------------------------------------

--- On Sat, 6/19/10, ussv dharma <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: ussv dharma <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] Did I do right
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 3:47 PM
> I know this is off topic, but this
> seems to be the only place where people know what they are
> talking about.
>
> I tried IE8....hate it.....couldnt get rid of it....so I
> downloaded firefox.
>
> Did I do right using firefox instead of trying to find ie7
>
> Susan
>
>
> If you don't change direction you WILL arrive exactly
> where you're headed!! Susan Meckley, Skipper W7KFI-mm
> AFA9SM USSV
> DHARMA
>
>
> --- On Sat, 6/19/10, drewko <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > From: drewko <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03:
> "CW+" mode (Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM)
> > To: "WILLIS COOKE" <[hidden email]>
> > Cc: [hidden email]
> > Date: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 10:16 AM
> > Hi Cookie,
> >
> > I have seen that video and it is well beyond the
> degree of
> > motion that
> > I use on the bug.
> >
> > In fact, I have a Viz right-angle bug which is a
> lighter
> > key and
> > requires a lighter touch than the typical Vibroplex.
> And I
> > use it
> > without benefit of any epoxy, superglue, and/or
> anchor
> > bolts holding
> > it down to the desk as a lot of bug users seem to do.
> If I
> > was really
> > "slamming" it like in the video it would walk off the
> desk
> > in short
> > order, haha!
> >
> > Even so, that slight initial tap on the leading dahs
> is
> > enough to make
> > my K3 go "TICK"!
> >
> >
> > 73,
> > Drew
> > AF2Z
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:05:52 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:
> >
> > >Drew, you have been watching the lady operator
> with the
> > long finger nails on the Night-of-Nights Utube video
> too
> > much. You don't need all that hand waving and
> finger
> > motion to send with a bug!
> > > Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> > >K5EWJ
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Phil Hystad-3

Re: Did I do right

Good browsers to use include:

Firefox
Safari (Apple's browser)
Chrome (from Google)

You will find that Chrome and Safari are far faster in page rendering then Firefox. I prefer both Safari (first) and then Chrome over Firefox.

All three browsers are available on Windows and Apple Mac computers.

73 phil K7PEH

On Jun 19, 2010, at 2:13 PM, Ken Roberson wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have been using Firefox for two years and Like it.
>
> 73 Ken K5DNL
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --- On Sat, 6/19/10, ussv dharma <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: ussv dharma <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: [Elecraft] Did I do right
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 3:47 PM
>> I know this is off topic, but this
>> seems to be the only place where people know what they are
>> talking about.
>>
>> I tried IE8....hate it.....couldnt get rid of it....so I
>> downloaded firefox.
>>
>> Did I do right using firefox instead of trying to find ie7
>>
>> Susan
>>
>>
>> If you don't change direction you WILL arrive exactly
>> where you're headed!! Susan Meckley, Skipper W7KFI-mm
>> AFA9SM USSV
>> DHARMA
>>
>>
>> --- On Sat, 6/19/10, drewko <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> From: drewko <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03:
>> "CW+" mode (Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM)
>>> To: "WILLIS COOKE" <[hidden email]>
>>> Cc: [hidden email]
>>> Date: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 10:16 AM
>>> Hi Cookie,
>>>
>>> I have seen that video and it is well beyond the
>> degree of
>>> motion that
>>> I use on the bug.
>>>
>>> In fact, I have a Viz right-angle bug which is a
>> lighter
>>> key and
>>> requires a lighter touch than the typical Vibroplex.
>> And I
>>> use it
>>> without benefit of any epoxy, superglue, and/or
>> anchor
>>> bolts holding
>>> it down to the desk as a lot of bug users seem to do.
>> If I
>>> was really
>>> "slamming" it like in the video it would walk off the
>> desk
>>> in short
>>> order, haha!
>>>
>>> Even so, that slight initial tap on the leading dahs
>> is
>>> enough to make
>>> my K3 go "TICK"!
>>>
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Drew
>>> AF2Z
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:05:52 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:
>>>
>>>> Drew, you have been watching the lady operator
>> with the
>>> long finger nails on the Night-of-Nights Utube video
>> too
>>> much. You don't need all that hand waving and
>> finger
>>> motion to send with a bug!
>>>> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
>>>> K5EWJ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Guy, K2AV

Re: K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03: "CW+" mode (Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM)

In reply to this post by The Smiths

Well, the Elecraft is getting the signal from both your bug's dit and
your dah contact on the same lead. And if your closures are perfect,
by what process is the K3 able to determine that the contact is from
only one side of a bug to give just that one side a "tick"? And when
the "tick" can be cured as was posted by changing hand technique? The
closure waveform is clearly not the same for dit and dah.

If you were sending code on an old 807 rig, one of the old time locals
would be on your case for scratchy keying, and tell you which contact
on your bug it was. Your denials of bug contact complicity at the club
meeting would just get you looks.

What I find interesting out of this is that there is enough interest
in using bugs, that a debouncer option for mechanical keys is a
reasonable request. Getting bug contacts correct for using on low
voltage circuits IS and HAS BEEN a real PITA, never needing to be
broached by the old-timers that designed the bugs.

The CW+ was introduced particularly to serve high speed CW interests
that were not being addressed, with dits at some speeds pretty close
to a click. Not that someone else shouldn't use it. The current
settings are wonderful for the very high speed stuff and I do hope
that Wayne will not degrade it to debounce mechanical bugs being
operated at speeds serviced well at the regular CW. Just improve the
QSK at the regular CW setting, although I know he is fighting state
change processing budgets.

73, Guy

On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 2:27 PM, The Smiths <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I'm sorry Guy, but I'm not hearing bounce on my key. And I can assure you
> that my bug doesn't have poor contacts on either side. I get ONE single Dah
> when sending a Dah.. What I hear is a TICK sound, and not a tone when I
> first key down. If speed and bounce were the issue than I would be sure to
> hear it on the dit side regardless of the speed... This problem is
> something else.
>
> Furthermore I don't see why QRQ type QSK mode is "ONLY" for people going
> "fast".. Personally I send as slow as 18wpm and as high as 35 wpm on my
> bugs, and enjoy the fast switching of the new CW+ mode. In my opinion THIS
> is what QSK SHOULD sound like.. I would recommend that someone actually look
> into keying with more than just the paddles or keyboards.
>
> Perhaps you have misunderstood that people are not trying to complain here
> Guy, yet let the Elecraft guys know that they should look into this. That's
> why it's still BETA software at this point... Don't poo poo it so fast.
>
>
>
>> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 12:09:31 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03: "CW+" mode
>> (Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM)
>> From: [hidden email]
>> To: [hidden email]
>> CC: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>>
>> For speeds that people can send with a bug (usually) the regular CW
>> seems to work quite fine. CW plus is primarily intended to support
>> very fast speeds, often heard now with operators sending with
>> keyboards and other electronic keying devices.
>>
>> Debouncing a bug to prevent false starts when someone has poor
>> contacts on one side is not one of the design goals for CW plus I've
>> heard passed about, though the buffering of keying circuits used in
>> most transmitters now has a small amount of debouncing effect which
>> has likely been hiding the glitch. This would include the regular CW
>> of the K3.
>>
>> With CW plus, however, that small false start has to be taken as
>> legitimate, because pausing a small amount to "make sure" that the
>> operator really means it, would make high speed CW sound jerky. CW
>> plus was made to faithfully reproduce the keying at very high speeds,
>> and has to take the blip seriously.
>>
>> Cleaning and proper adjustment of bug contacts were always needed in
>> the day, because the condition you are talking about would result in
>> scratchy keying...which was never blamed on the transmitter, only on
>> the op who was not keeping his bug "greased". The need is greater now
>> because noone is keying the +100V or more found on the old open
>> cathode circuits any more, and bad bug contacts will easier bother a
>> mere 12 volts on the key, and bother 5 volts even worse.
>>
>> 73, Guy.
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 11:11 AM, The Smiths <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I've noticed this as well. For me it's a "Tick" sound EVERY time I hit
>> > the Dah side of my bug. Nothing on the dit side, regardless of the speed or
>> > preasure.
>> >
>> > I thought at first it was the force that I was using.. So I tried
>> > pushing the lever slowly and carefully against the Dah contact, and it
>> > didn't make the sound.. So then I tried lighting my touch on the dah side
>> > while I was sending, and sure enough it was still there.
>> >
>> > So, I switched from my Begali Intrepid to my Vibroplex Original, and
>> > then I found that the ticking sound was GONE all together! Now I'm
>> > competely confused. What does the one dah side have that the other bug's
>> > doesn't??? Gold Contacts? A bad ground connection? More surface contact
>> > area, a larger area? You tell me.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I LOVE the new QSK (QRQ), but if I had to deal with that Tick sound on
>> > the dah contact, I would just not use it. Shame.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 05:37:18 -0700
>> >> From: [hidden email]
>> >> To: [hidden email]
>> >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03: "CW+" mode
>> >> (Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Yes, I noticed this on my bug also. This happens almost entirely on
>> >> characters that start with a 'dah'. I think this is because the index
>> >> finger
>> >> is off the paddle between characters and the initial attack is a little
>> >> more
>> >> forceful. Subsequent dahs in the same character sound fine, but that
>> >> first
>> >> one has a 'tick' (a spike by the sound of it). No problem at all with
>> >> the
>> >> dits.
>> >>
>> >> BTW, I don't think this is a matter of bug adjustment; you can get the
>> >> same
>> >> effect by tapping down on a straight key from a slight distance. So it
>> >> is a
>> >> matter of technique. I can avoid it on the bug by keeping my index
>> >> finger
>> >> resting against the paddle all the time and avoiding that first hard
>> >> strike,
>> >> but can't send as well that way; maybe with practice...
>> >>
>> >> 73,
>> >> Drew
>> >> AF2Z
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
>> > inbox.
>> >
>> > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
>> > ______________________________________________________________
>> > Elecraft mailing list
>> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>> >
>> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> >
>
> ________________________________
> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
> inbox. See how.

The Smiths

Re: Did I do right

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

Good reflectors to use:

Firefox home page

Apple Support page

Google Chrome Support page

Not the Elecraft reflector.

> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 17:58:03 -0700
> To: [hidden email]
> CC: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Did I do right
>
> Good browsers to use include:
>
> Firefox
> Safari (Apple's browser)
> Chrome (from Google)
>
> You will find that Chrome and Safari are far faster in page rendering then Firefox. I prefer both Safari (first) and then Chrome over Firefox.
>
> All three browsers are available on Windows and Apple Mac computers.
>
> 73 phil K7PEH
>
>
> On Jun 19, 2010, at 2:13 PM, Ken Roberson wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I have been using Firefox for two years and Like it.
> >
> > 73 Ken K5DNL
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > --- On Sat, 6/19/10, ussv dharma <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> From: ussv dharma <[hidden email]>
> >> Subject: [Elecraft] Did I do right
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Date: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 3:47 PM
> >> I know this is off topic, but this
> >> seems to be the only place where people know what they are
> >> talking about.
> >>
> >> I tried IE8....hate it.....couldnt get rid of it....so I
> >> downloaded firefox.
> >>
> >> Did I do right using firefox instead of trying to find ie7
> >>
> >> Susan
> >>
> >>
> >> If you don't change direction you WILL arrive exactly
> >> where you're headed!! Susan Meckley, Skipper W7KFI-mm
> >> AFA9SM USSV
> >> DHARMA
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Sat, 6/19/10, drewko <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> From: drewko <[hidden email]>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03:
> >> "CW+" mode (Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM)
> >>> To: "WILLIS COOKE" <[hidden email]>
> >>> Cc: [hidden email]
> >>> Date: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 10:16 AM
> >>> Hi Cookie,
> >>>
> >>> I have seen that video and it is well beyond the
> >> degree of
> >>> motion that
> >>> I use on the bug.
> >>>
> >>> In fact, I have a Viz right-angle bug which is a
> >> lighter
> >>> key and
> >>> requires a lighter touch than the typical Vibroplex.
> >> And I
> >>> use it
> >>> without benefit of any epoxy, superglue, and/or
> >> anchor
> >>> bolts holding
> >>> it down to the desk as a lot of bug users seem to do.
> >> If I
> >>> was really
> >>> "slamming" it like in the video it would walk off the
> >> desk
> >>> in short
> >>> order, haha!
> >>>
> >>> Even so, that slight initial tap on the leading dahs
> >> is
> >>> enough to make
> >>> my K3 go "TICK"!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 73,
> >>> Drew
> >>> AF2Z
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:05:52 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Drew, you have been watching the lady operator
> >> with the
> >>> long finger nails on the Night-of-Nights Utube video
> >> too
> >>> much. You don't need all that hand waving and
> >> finger
> >>> motion to send with a bug!
> >>>> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> >>>> K5EWJ
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >>> Elecraft mailing list
> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>>
> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>>
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

P.B. Christensen

Bug Contact Bounce in CW+ Mode

In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV

I just dusted off my Vibroplex Champion and tried testing with the K3. The
reports of intermittent audible side-tone click are correct in CW+ mode,
although the click can be heard on either dits or dahs, depending on the
degree of contact bounce. I was able to easily replicate the side-tone
clicks by moving around both bug contacts.

I am using K3 F/W 4.03. First, I tested the bug by plugging it directly
into the K3's rear panel "KEY" input to confirm the issue. Next, I plugged
the bug into my external keyer with a modified Schottky gate/2N7000
combination. Then, the output of the keyer was plugged into the K3's KEY
jack. The Schottky buffer functions as a contact de-bouncer and ensures
that each contact results in the 2N7000 FET going to ground and no state in
between ground and +Vcc provided by the K3's key input line. The input
buffer cleans the bug contacts, resulting in no audible side-tone click.

As an alternate to the Schottky buffer, some bug users may want to try
placing a tantalum or electrolytic cap (e.g., 0.1uF - 0.47uF) across the bug
output terminals, observing correct polarity. Tests awhile back showed this
helped with contact bounce, but not the pseudo-diode condition created by
contacts of dissimilar metals as earlier discussed by Joe, W4TV.

I sure wouldn't want Elecraft to in any way compromise CW+ as it presently
functions. As Guy points out, it may be a byproduct of the new ultra-fast
QSK and as such, other methods of contact de-bouncing can be used when using
a bug or straight key.

If an external keyer is used with the K3, the first thing I would try is to
plug the bug into the keyer and set it for "bug mode" and use its internal
contact buffering capabilities to ensure that the K3 sees a clean On/Off
state for every contact closure. Some keyers utilize a second input just
for straight keys and bugs and don't require the operator to change the
keying mode through the keyer's menu.

Anyway, these methods may be worth a try, starting with a cap or an external
keyer. If the problem persists, it may require a more robust de-bouncer
like the Shottky gate type I'm using.

Paul, W9AC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Olinger K2AV" <[hidden email]>
To: "The Smiths" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03: "CW+"
mode(Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM)

Well, the Elecraft is getting the signal from both your bug's dit and
your dah contact on the same lead. And if your closures are perfect,
by what process is the K3 able to determine that the contact is from
only one side of a bug to give just that one side a "tick"? And when
the "tick" can be cured as was posted by changing hand technique? The
closure waveform is clearly not the same for dit and dah.

If you were sending code on an old 807 rig, one of the old time locals
would be on your case for scratchy keying, and tell you which contact
on your bug it was. Your denials of bug contact complicity at the club
meeting would just get you looks.

What I find interesting out of this is that there is enough interest
in using bugs, that a debouncer option for mechanical keys is a
reasonable request. Getting bug contacts correct for using on low
voltage circuits IS and HAS BEEN a real PITA, never needing to be
broached by the old-timers that designed the bugs.

The CW+ was introduced particularly to serve high speed CW interests
that were not being addressed, with dits at some speeds pretty close
to a click. Not that someone else shouldn't use it. The current
settings are wonderful for the very high speed stuff and I do hope
that Wayne will not degrade it to debounce mechanical bugs being
operated at speeds serviced well at the regular CW. Just improve the
QSK at the regular CW setting, although I know he is fighting state
change processing budgets.

73, Guy

On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 2:27 PM, The Smiths <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I'm sorry Guy, but I'm not hearing bounce on my key. And I can assure you
> that my bug doesn't have poor contacts on either side. I get ONE single
> Dah
> when sending a Dah.. What I hear is a TICK sound, and not a tone when I
> first key down. If speed and bounce were the issue than I would be sure to
> hear it on the dit side regardless of the speed... This problem is
> something else.
>
> Furthermore I don't see why QRQ type QSK mode is "ONLY" for people going
> "fast".. Personally I send as slow as 18wpm and as high as 35 wpm on my
> bugs, and enjoy the fast switching of the new CW+ mode. In my opinion THIS
> is what QSK SHOULD sound like.. I would recommend that someone actually
> look
> into keying with more than just the paddles or keyboards.
>
> Perhaps you have misunderstood that people are not trying to complain here
> Guy, yet let the Elecraft guys know that they should look into this.
> That's
> why it's still BETA software at this point... Don't poo poo it so fast.
>
>
>
>> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 12:09:31 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03: "CW+" mode
>> (Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM)
>> From: [hidden email]
>> To: [hidden email]
>> CC: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>>
>> For speeds that people can send with a bug (usually) the regular CW
>> seems to work quite fine. CW plus is primarily intended to support
>> very fast speeds, often heard now with operators sending with
>> keyboards and other electronic keying devices.
>>
>> Debouncing a bug to prevent false starts when someone has poor
>> contacts on one side is not one of the design goals for CW plus I've
>> heard passed about, though the buffering of keying circuits used in
>> most transmitters now has a small amount of debouncing effect which
>> has likely been hiding the glitch. This would include the regular CW
>> of the K3.
>>
>> With CW plus, however, that small false start has to be taken as
>> legitimate, because pausing a small amount to "make sure" that the
>> operator really means it, would make high speed CW sound jerky. CW
>> plus was made to faithfully reproduce the keying at very high speeds,
>> and has to take the blip seriously.
>>
>> Cleaning and proper adjustment of bug contacts were always needed in
>> the day, because the condition you are talking about would result in
>> scratchy keying...which was never blamed on the transmitter, only on
>> the op who was not keeping his bug "greased". The need is greater now
>> because noone is keying the +100V or more found on the old open
>> cathode circuits any more, and bad bug contacts will easier bother a
>> mere 12 volts on the key, and bother 5 volts even worse.
>>
>> 73, Guy.
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 11:11 AM, The Smiths <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I've noticed this as well. For me it's a "Tick" sound EVERY time I hit
>> > the Dah side of my bug. Nothing on the dit side, regardless of the
>> > speed or
>> > preasure.
>> >
>> > I thought at first it was the force that I was using.. So I tried
>> > pushing the lever slowly and carefully against the Dah contact, and it
>> > didn't make the sound.. So then I tried lighting my touch on the dah
>> > side
>> > while I was sending, and sure enough it was still there.
>> >
>> > So, I switched from my Begali Intrepid to my Vibroplex Original, and
>> > then I found that the ticking sound was GONE all together! Now I'm
>> > competely confused. What does the one dah side have that the other
>> > bug's
>> > doesn't??? Gold Contacts? A bad ground connection? More surface contact
>> > area, a larger area? You tell me.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I LOVE the new QSK (QRQ), but if I had to deal with that Tick sound on
>> > the dah contact, I would just not use it. Shame.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 05:37:18 -0700
>> >> From: [hidden email]
>> >> To: [hidden email]
>> >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03: "CW+" mode
>> >> (Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Yes, I noticed this on my bug also. This happens almost entirely on
>> >> characters that start with a 'dah'. I think this is because the index
>> >> finger
>> >> is off the paddle between characters and the initial attack is a
>> >> little
>> >> more
>> >> forceful. Subsequent dahs in the same character sound fine, but that
>> >> first
>> >> one has a 'tick' (a spike by the sound of it). No problem at all with
>> >> the
>> >> dits.
>> >>
>> >> BTW, I don't think this is a matter of bug adjustment; you can get the
>> >> same
>> >> effect by tapping down on a straight key from a slight distance. So it
>> >> is a
>> >> matter of technique. I can avoid it on the bug by keeping my index
>> >> finger
>> >> resting against the paddle all the time and avoiding that first hard
>> >> strike,
>> >> but can't send as well that way; maybe with practice...
>> >>
>> >> 73,
>> >> Drew
>> >> AF2Z
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
>> > inbox.
>> >
>> > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
>> > ______________________________________________________________
>> > Elecraft mailing list
>> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>> >
>> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> >
>
> ________________________________
> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
> inbox. See how.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Steve Ellington

Re: Bug Contact Bounce in CW+ Mode

I had to put a .5uf capacitor across my bug to prevent contact bounce on the
K3....That was over 2 years ago. Radio Shack sells a 1uf tantalum capacitor
and I put 2 in series. They just screw under the bug's connector. Sure
cleaned things up!

Steve
N4LQ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Christensen" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 9:45 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Bug Contact Bounce in CW+ Mode

>I just dusted off my Vibroplex Champion and tried testing with the K3. The
> reports of intermittent audible side-tone click are correct in CW+ mode,
> although the click can be heard on either dits or dahs, depending on the
> degree of contact bounce. I was able to easily replicate the side-tone
> clicks by moving around both bug contacts.
>
> I am using K3 F/W 4.03. First, I tested the bug by plugging it directly
> into the K3's rear panel "KEY" input to confirm the issue. Next, I
> plugged
> the bug into my external keyer with a modified Schottky gate/2N7000
> combination. Then, the output of the keyer was plugged into the K3's KEY
> jack. The Schottky buffer functions as a contact de-bouncer and ensures
> that each contact results in the 2N7000 FET going to ground and no state
> in
> between ground and +Vcc provided by the K3's key input line. The input
> buffer cleans the bug contacts, resulting in no audible side-tone click.
>
> As an alternate to the Schottky buffer, some bug users may want to try
> placing a tantalum or electrolytic cap (e.g., 0.1uF - 0.47uF) across the
> bug
> output terminals, observing correct polarity. Tests awhile back showed
> this
> helped with contact bounce, but not the pseudo-diode condition created by
> contacts of dissimilar metals as earlier discussed by Joe, W4TV.
>
> I sure wouldn't want Elecraft to in any way compromise CW+ as it presently
> functions. As Guy points out, it may be a byproduct of the new ultra-fast
> QSK and as such, other methods of contact de-bouncing can be used when
> using
> a bug or straight key.
>
> If an external keyer is used with the K3, the first thing I would try is
> to
> plug the bug into the keyer and set it for "bug mode" and use its internal
> contact buffering capabilities to ensure that the K3 sees a clean On/Off
> state for every contact closure. Some keyers utilize a second input just
> for straight keys and bugs and don't require the operator to change the
> keying mode through the keyer's menu.
>
> Anyway, these methods may be worth a try, starting with a cap or an
> external
> keyer. If the problem persists, it may require a more robust de-bouncer
> like the Shottky gate type I'm using.
>
> Paul, W9AC
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Guy Olinger K2AV" <[hidden email]>
> To: "The Smiths" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 9:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03: "CW+"
> mode(Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM)
>
>
> Well, the Elecraft is getting the signal from both your bug's dit and
> your dah contact on the same lead. And if your closures are perfect,
> by what process is the K3 able to determine that the contact is from
> only one side of a bug to give just that one side a "tick"? And when
> the "tick" can be cured as was posted by changing hand technique? The
> closure waveform is clearly not the same for dit and dah.
>
> If you were sending code on an old 807 rig, one of the old time locals
> would be on your case for scratchy keying, and tell you which contact
> on your bug it was. Your denials of bug contact complicity at the club
> meeting would just get you looks.
>
> What I find interesting out of this is that there is enough interest
> in using bugs, that a debouncer option for mechanical keys is a
> reasonable request. Getting bug contacts correct for using on low
> voltage circuits IS and HAS BEEN a real PITA, never needing to be
> broached by the old-timers that designed the bugs.
>
> The CW+ was introduced particularly to serve high speed CW interests
> that were not being addressed, with dits at some speeds pretty close
> to a click. Not that someone else shouldn't use it. The current
> settings are wonderful for the very high speed stuff and I do hope
> that Wayne will not degrade it to debounce mechanical bugs being
> operated at speeds serviced well at the regular CW. Just improve the
> QSK at the regular CW setting, although I know he is fighting state
> change processing budgets.
>
> 73, Guy
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 2:27 PM, The Smiths <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> I'm sorry Guy, but I'm not hearing bounce on my key. And I can assure you
>> that my bug doesn't have poor contacts on either side. I get ONE single
>> Dah
>> when sending a Dah.. What I hear is a TICK sound, and not a tone when I
>> first key down. If speed and bounce were the issue than I would be sure
>> to
>> hear it on the dit side regardless of the speed... This problem is
>> something else.
>>
>> Furthermore I don't see why QRQ type QSK mode is "ONLY" for people going
>> "fast".. Personally I send as slow as 18wpm and as high as 35 wpm on my
>> bugs, and enjoy the fast switching of the new CW+ mode. In my opinion
>> THIS
>> is what QSK SHOULD sound like.. I would recommend that someone actually
>> look
>> into keying with more than just the paddles or keyboards.
>>
>> Perhaps you have misunderstood that people are not trying to complain
>> here
>> Guy, yet let the Elecraft guys know that they should look into this.
>> That's
>> why it's still BETA software at this point... Don't poo poo it so fast.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 12:09:31 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03: "CW+" mode
>>> (Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM)
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> CC: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>>>
>>> For speeds that people can send with a bug (usually) the regular CW
>>> seems to work quite fine. CW plus is primarily intended to support
>>> very fast speeds, often heard now with operators sending with
>>> keyboards and other electronic keying devices.
>>>
>>> Debouncing a bug to prevent false starts when someone has poor
>>> contacts on one side is not one of the design goals for CW plus I've
>>> heard passed about, though the buffering of keying circuits used in
>>> most transmitters now has a small amount of debouncing effect which
>>> has likely been hiding the glitch. This would include the regular CW
>>> of the K3.
>>>
>>> With CW plus, however, that small false start has to be taken as
>>> legitimate, because pausing a small amount to "make sure" that the
>>> operator really means it, would make high speed CW sound jerky. CW
>>> plus was made to faithfully reproduce the keying at very high speeds,
>>> and has to take the blip seriously.
>>>
>>> Cleaning and proper adjustment of bug contacts were always needed in
>>> the day, because the condition you are talking about would result in
>>> scratchy keying...which was never blamed on the transmitter, only on
>>> the op who was not keeping his bug "greased". The need is greater now
>>> because noone is keying the +100V or more found on the old open
>>> cathode circuits any more, and bad bug contacts will easier bother a
>>> mere 12 volts on the key, and bother 5 volts even worse.
>>>
>>> 73, Guy.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 11:11 AM, The Smiths <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I've noticed this as well. For me it's a "Tick" sound EVERY time I hit
>>> > the Dah side of my bug. Nothing on the dit side, regardless of the
>>> > speed or
>>> > preasure.
>>> >
>>> > I thought at first it was the force that I was using.. So I tried
>>> > pushing the lever slowly and carefully against the Dah contact, and it
>>> > didn't make the sound.. So then I tried lighting my touch on the dah
>>> > side
>>> > while I was sending, and sure enough it was still there.
>>> >
>>> > So, I switched from my Begali Intrepid to my Vibroplex Original, and
>>> > then I found that the ticking sound was GONE all together! Now I'm
>>> > competely confused. What does the one dah side have that the other
>>> > bug's
>>> > doesn't??? Gold Contacts? A bad ground connection? More surface
>>> > contact
>>> > area, a larger area? You tell me.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I LOVE the new QSK (QRQ), but if I had to deal with that Tick sound on
>>> > the dah contact, I would just not use it. Shame.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 05:37:18 -0700
>>> >> From: [hidden email]
>>> >> To: [hidden email]
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03: "CW+" mode
>>> >> (Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Yes, I noticed this on my bug also. This happens almost entirely on
>>> >> characters that start with a 'dah'. I think this is because the index
>>> >> finger
>>> >> is off the paddle between characters and the initial attack is a
>>> >> little
>>> >> more
>>> >> forceful. Subsequent dahs in the same character sound fine, but that
>>> >> first
>>> >> one has a 'tick' (a spike by the sound of it). No problem at all with
>>> >> the
>>> >> dits.
>>> >>
>>> >> BTW, I don't think this is a matter of bug adjustment; you can get
>>> >> the
>>> >> same
>>> >> effect by tapping down on a straight key from a slight distance. So
>>> >> it
>>> >> is a
>>> >> matter of technique. I can avoid it on the bug by keeping my index
>>> >> finger
>>> >> resting against the paddle all the time and avoiding that first hard
>>> >> strike,
>>> >> but can't send as well that way; maybe with practice...
>>> >>
>>> >> 73,
>>> >> Drew
>>> >> AF2Z
>>> >
>>> > _________________________________________________________________
>>> > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
>>> > inbox.
>>> >
>>> > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
>>> > ______________________________________________________________
>>> > Elecraft mailing list
>>> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>> >
>>> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> >
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from
>> your
>> inbox. See how.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

P.B. Christensen

Bug Contact Bounce in CW+ Mode

> "I think that is not being communicated here is, I'm NOT hearing
> "intermittent audible side-tone clicks" I'm here TICKS..."

I am hearing the same "tick" on the leading edge of the side-tone only when
using a bug in CW+ mode. It disappears when CW+ is deactivated. So,
whatever we want to call it, an artifact is there, but I think it's
manageable external to the bug and K3.

Paul, W9AC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Vic K2VCO

Re: Bug Contact Bounce in CW+ Mode

In reply to this post by P.B. Christensen

I've often had trouble keying modern solid-state rigs cleanly with mechanical bugs. I've
tried various electronic debouncing schemes, with more or less success.

The simplest solution is to use a reed relay -- radio shack has a 12-volt one that works
perfectly with a 9-volt battery. The battery lasts for months.

Put an electrolytic capacitor across the coil to soak up the bounce pulses. I used 10 uf,
I think. Without the capacitor the reed relay is fast enough to reproduce the bounces.

You'll have to readjust your bug, since the circuit will lengthen the dits.

Problem solved.

On 6/19/2010 6:45 PM, Paul Christensen wrote:

--
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Bug Contact Bounce in CW+ Mode

In reply to this post by P.B. Christensen

Paul and all,

We are discussing mechanical contacts that are "dry".

Contact bounce is a "fact of life" and is a problem to be contended with
in any "dry" mechanical switch (bug, straight key, mechanical switch,
relay, etc.) It can be minimized with sealed mercury-wetted contacts,
but without considering the mercuy wetted solution, is a very real
problem. When designing a console for a large computer system, I added
de-bouncing latches for every switch on the console panel because I knew
that even high quality switches had contact bounce. Fortunately, I was
able to specify the switches to be SPDT so I could use set/reset latches
for the de-bouncing mechanism. Dirty contacts, dissimilar metals and
other things of that nature only amplify the problem. *All* switch
contact closures will bounce - the question becomes "how long will the
bounce condition be present".

There are effective de-bouncing circuits that can be used (set/reset
latches if the switch is a SPDT), but the most common de-bouncing
mechanism for SPST contacts is to sample the switch closure over a
period of time (milliseconds), and if the closure exists during and
after that time period, it is declared as a valid contact closure.

In the case of CW+, the timing must be smaller than the duration of the
fastest allowable element (a dit time at 100 WPM - which may be just a
"tick")., so yes, some contact bounce timings may be interpreted as
valid dits (even though they may be shortened to "just a click" or a
"tick").

IMHO, the CW+ option should not be used with bugs and straight keys
because they suffer from potential contact bounce. With logic
controlled (and already de-bounced) circuits such as keyboard CW and
other forms of computer generated CW, there should be no problem.

73,
Don W3FPR

Paul Christensen wrote:

>> "I think that is not being communicated here is, I'm NOT hearing
>> "intermittent audible side-tone clicks" I'm here TICKS..."
>>
>
> I am hearing the same "tick" on the leading edge of the side-tone only when
> using a bug in CW+ mode. It disappears when CW+ is deactivated. So,
> whatever we want to call it, an artifact is there, but I think it's
> manageable external to the bug and K3.
>
> Paul, W9AC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

Larry Godek

Re: Did I do right

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

I have IE something or other and don't use it. I also have Firefox on here which i used to use all the time. Then it got to the point where it continually asked me about pop-up blocker and do you want Firefox to remember this password. I got tired of trying to fix both problems so now i use Seamonkey which is a similar to Firefox. None of the above problems and it works just fine.

Larry
W0OGH

--- On Sat, 6/19/10, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Phil Hystad <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Did I do right
To: "Ken Roberson" <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Date: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 5:58 PM

Good browsers to use include:

Firefox
Safari (Apple's browser)
Chrome (from Google)

You will find that Chrome and Safari are far faster in page rendering then Firefox. I prefer both Safari (first) and then Chrome over Firefox.

All three browsers are available on Windows and Apple Mac computers.

73 phil K7PEH

On Jun 19, 2010, at 2:13 PM, Ken Roberson wrote:

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html