K3 & Beverages on 160
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I just posted this to the topband reflector thinking I might get some
help from the folks who know about beverages for low band Dxing. Perhaps something in my K3 is not configured as well as it should be and that's maybe a cause of my problems so I'm posting this here as well. The answer lies somewhere between my expectations for Rx antennae and high atmospheric noise I'm hearing. My K3 is pretty well fully loaded and has a Sub Rx and a KXV3. The Rx antenna coax goes to the end of a BNC "T" where the shaft of the T connects to the Aux RF BNC and then the coax at the other end of the "T" connects to the left Rx Ant BNC on the KXV3. Here's what I posted to Topband: ------------ Post to topband------------ Well, it was a scramble trying to make these hastily thrown together beverages for the contest. I found some interesting discoveries which means I need to learn more. Radio is a K3. The preamp is turned off in the K3 Beverage 1 runs from the house to the east and is 500' long. The wire comes in through the window sill and is held up by branches & it dips,. It has no termination resistor. The matching transformer is next to the window. The ground is connected to the station ground rod. Beverage 2 runs due north and is 350 feet long. it is connected to 100' of TV cable and it is grounded at the feed point 100' from the house where the matching transformer is. There is a 350 ohm carbon resistor (parallelled resistors) at the north tip and a 6' ground rod in swamp muck Both Beverages are about 8 feet off the ground except #1 which is settling down in the marsh reeds to where it will be closer to the ground at the distal end. K9AY is beside the house INV-L is 350 feet from the house, about 70 radials 130' each. Problem for me for an example is I can not hear JAs where others in the area are working them. My K9AY is much better in killing atmospheric noise than the vertical but it still does not pick up those JAs. So I decided to try these beverages to see how they do. My discoveries are thus: Both Beverages are full of atmospheric noise. Both of the beverages definitely had a good gain over the K9AY but the K9AY heard most everything these beverages heard but the noise was tremendously lower than the Beverages. The RF signals were attenuated a bit but the S/N ratio was by far better with the K9AY. I have the K3 configured so the main receiver listens through the Inv- L and the sub receiver uses the Rx antennae. I have all 3 Rx ants on a coax switch and this goes into the control head of the K9AY so I can use that pre is I wish. The atmospheric noise was so bad with the beverages I sometimes found it better to use just the main Rx & the Inv-L only to cut down on the atmospheric. It's my understanding the Beverage is supposed to be a quiet antenna but as mine are not, perhaps there's an obvious reason why mine behave so badly? #1 is in a salt marsh with nothing around it and #2 runs along the marsh and terminates just before railroad tracks. I surely must be doing something wrong. Thanks Gary KA1J ----------end--------------- Any suggestions on how I have my K3 setup? 73, Gary KA1J ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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This has absolutely nothing to do with your K3. Normally, well
constructed beverages will outperform a K9AY, and Gary does not claim that his design will outperform good beverages. Using a house ground for a signal ground on a beverage will IMPOSE house noise on the beverage, rendering it useless and apparently without pattern. There are extensive excellent discussions in Topband archives on suppressing feedline noise on beverages and how to ground them. Very good reading. Avail yourself. Search on beverage and grounding. It would take forever to copy that material into brand new posts on the Elecraft reflector. That your K9AY worked well clears your K3 and its settings from any suspicion. 73, Guy. On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Gary Smith <[hidden email]> wrote: > I just posted this to the topband reflector thinking I might get some > help from the folks who know about beverages for low band Dxing. > > Perhaps something in my K3 is not configured as well as it should be > and that's maybe a cause of my problems so I'm posting this here as > well. The answer lies somewhere between my expectations for Rx > antennae and high atmospheric noise I'm hearing. > > My K3 is pretty well fully loaded and has a Sub Rx and a KXV3. The Rx > antenna coax goes to the end of a BNC "T" where the shaft of the T > connects to the Aux RF BNC and then the coax at the other end of the > "T" connects to the left Rx Ant BNC on the KXV3. > > Here's what I posted to Topband: > > > ------------ Post to topband------------ > Well, it was a scramble trying to make these hastily thrown together > beverages for the contest. I found some interesting discoveries which > > means I need to learn more. > > Radio is a K3. The preamp is turned off in the K3 > > Beverage 1 runs from the house to the east and is 500' long. The wire > > comes in through the window sill and is held up by branches & it > dips,. It has no termination resistor. The matching transformer is > next to the window. The ground is connected to the station ground > rod. > > Beverage 2 runs due north and is 350 feet long. it is connected to > 100' of TV cable and it is grounded at the feed point 100' from the > house where the matching transformer is. There is a 350 ohm carbon > resistor (parallelled resistors) at the north tip and a 6' ground rod > > in swamp muck > > Both Beverages are about 8 feet off the ground except #1 which is > settling down in the marsh reeds to where it will be closer to the > ground at the distal end. > > K9AY is beside the house > > INV-L is 350 feet from the house, about 70 radials 130' each. > > Problem for me for an example is I can not hear JAs where others in > the area are working them. > > My K9AY is much better in killing atmospheric noise than the vertical > > but it still does not pick up those JAs. > > So I decided to try these beverages to see how they do. > > My discoveries are thus: Both Beverages are full of atmospheric > noise. Both of the beverages definitely had a good gain over the K9AY > > but the K9AY heard most everything these beverages heard but the > noise was tremendously lower than the Beverages. The RF signals were > attenuated a bit but the S/N ratio was by far better with the K9AY. > > I have the K3 configured so the main receiver listens through the Inv- > > L and the sub receiver uses the Rx antennae. I have all 3 Rx ants on > a coax switch and this goes into the control head of the K9AY so I > can use that pre is I wish. > > The atmospheric noise was so bad with the beverages I sometimes found > > it better to use just the main Rx & the Inv-L only to cut down on the > > atmospheric. > > It's my understanding the Beverage is supposed to be a quiet antenna > but as mine are not, perhaps there's an obvious reason why mine > behave so badly? #1 is in a salt marsh with nothing around it and #2 > runs along the marsh and terminates just before railroad tracks. > > I surely must be doing something wrong. > > Thanks > Gary > KA1J > ----------end--------------- > > Any suggestions on how I have my K3 setup? > > 73, > > Gary > KA1J > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2
For the benefit of others here, the reply by K4SAV on the Topband list is accurate in all respects.
73, Bill http://lists.contesting.com/pipermail/topband/2010-January/032608.html KA1J wrote: > .... > Beverage 1 runs from the house to the east and is 500' long. The wire > comes in through the window sill and is held up by branches & it > dips,. It has no termination resistor. The matching transformer is > next to the window. The ground is connected to the station ground > rod.... > > .....I surely must be doing something wrong. > I wouldn't expect much performance from a Beverage built like that. A bi-directional Beverage will have a lot more noise than an single direction one, and connecting the ground to the station ground will allow all the station ground noise to appear in the signal. It could also destroy the pattern because of the signal picked up on the house wiring, which also gets into the output. Build it like everyone else does, separate ground rods at both ends not connected to anything else, add termination resistor, use transformer with good primary to secondary isolation or lots of chokes on the feedline. |
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In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV
Another factor may be the ground the beverage runs over. Beverages perform
well over poor ground but poorly over good ground such as a saltmarsh. Good luck Gary 73 to all Geoff G3UCK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Olinger K2AV" <[hidden email]> Using a house ground for a signal ground on a beverage will IMPOSE house noise on the beverage, rendering it useless and apparently without pattern. On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Gary Smith <[hidden email]> wrote: > It's my understanding the Beverage is supposed to be a quiet antenna > but as mine are not, perhaps there's an obvious reason why mine > behave so badly? #1 is in a salt marsh with nothing around it and #2 > runs along the marsh and terminates just before railroad tracks. > > I surely must be doing something wrong. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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