Elecraft › [K3]

K3 Bottom Front Panel Issues

Classic

List

Threaded

9 messages Options

Brett Howard

K3 Bottom Front Panel Issues

Ok I know I need to buy new screwdrivers. I'm in the process of buying
a set of Whia drivers. I feel that the driver I've been using fits
fairly well but the Whia set I have at work seem to fit a little
better.

Anyway I'm starting to have issues with my bottom front panel after
getting into this radio as many times as I have... After the DVR, the
audio low pass filter, several additions of filters, the sub RX, and
every mod on the website (except for the resistor change for the P3)
I'll be doing it when the P3 arrives...

Anyway the center most screw position was the one giving me the most
fits before. This wasn't near as big of an issue when I didn't have the
sub receiver. But now that I have that piece in place being able to put
a screwdriver on the top side has become much more work intensive.

I've also tried using lock-tite to hold the standoffs onto the screws
from the board side so that Its very easy to remove the screws from the
bottom and I figured if I ever had to replace the RF board that
replacing a few standoffs at the same time would be easy...

Anyway I've cammed out of some of the flat head screws ever so slightly
here and there and Elecraft graciously provided me with a few
replacements to get rid of the ones that were starting to look bad. But
this other issue is starting to get really quite ugly.

I've gotten to the point where I no longer want to even try opening it
because of how far I have too take it apart because of these issues. I
got an FM filter for Xmas and because the left front screw and the
center most screw wouldn't come out of the bottom I ended up having to
pull the front panel and the sub RX in order to install a filter.
(granted the Sub RX had to come out partially to get the filter in place
but had to come out all the way for the other work).

Anyway I think I'd like to replace some of these parts with new ones as
the excessive use and attempts with lock-tite have been less than
successful. I'm wondering if I should try to make up a BOM of what I
need from the Elecraft manual (using elecraft part numbers of course)
and then place an order or if I should just head to my parts catalog
house and try there.

Finally my last question quite concerns me.... I've noted that from
several applications on and off that the board has gotten scratched here
and there around the screw holes. Being that these are commonly ground
points I'm quite worried that I'm not getting the grounding that I
should... Just after installing the FM filter I noted that when I plug
my mic into the front panel that I get about a .5S unit drop in noise
level when the mic is plugged in. Granted I think this is the first
time I've even listened to the radio w/ the mic unplugged (even though I
rarely ever use it)... But this makes me wonder what may be up here....
FWIW I have put shorting wires around the L's in the back for the
"Improving the immunity of the Rear-Panel RS232 and Audio Connectors to
RF" modification.

I greatly appreciate any advice. Sorry for asking these questions in
this format with so much unfounded fear but I ask as I don't really have
the time to do a lot of trial an error and documentation/testing like
I'd like in order to make the right decision. I kinda figure that those
with many of these around would be able to much more quickly answer to
questions such as what happens if some of those ground connections are
less than optimal... If all else fails and the compromised grounds
causes issue I think with some exacto and copper tape work I can make
those areas very robust to lock washers.

Greatly appreciated gentlemen.

~Brett (KC7OTG)

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 Bottom Front Panel Issues

Brett,

I believe the answer to most of your fears is to purchase a new
screwdriver and yes, make up that BOM list and place an order. Replace
what needs replacing and be done with it.

While you are replacing, check the grounding points on the panels and
you may have some improvement in grounding afterwards. If you are
camming out screws with your current screwdriver, then it is likely they
are not adequately tightened either.

73,
Don W3FPR

Brett Howard wrote:

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

n7ws

Re: K3 Bottom Front Panel Issues

In reply to this post by Brett Howard

While some in this forum marvel at the way things go together in this radio, I was not pleased with the standoff situation. Using screws to attach standoffs in later to be inaccessible locations, and adjusting standoff lengths with stacks of washers is acceptable in a homebrew or prototype radio, but I think that in a production piece they should be of the correct length and permanently staked into place.

Flame away.

Wes N7WS

--- On Wed, 12/30/09, Brett Howard <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Brett Howard <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Bottom Front Panel Issues
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 3:29 AM

Ok I know I need to buy new screwdrivers. I'm in the process of buying
a set of Whia drivers. I feel that the driver I've been using fits
fairly well but the Whia set I have at work seem to fit a little
better.

Anyway I'm starting to have issues with my bottom front panel after
getting into this radio as many times as I have... After the DVR, the
audio low pass filter, several additions of filters, the sub RX, and
every mod on the website (except for the resistor change for the P3)
I'll be doing it when the P3 arrives...

Anyway the center most screw position was the one giving me the most
fits before. This wasn't near as big of an issue when I didn't have the
sub receiver. But now that I have that piece in place being able to put
a screwdriver on the top side has become much more work intensive.

I've also tried using lock-tite to hold the standoffs onto the screws
from the board side so that Its very easy to remove the screws from the
bottom and I figured if I ever had to replace the RF board that
replacing a few standoffs at the same time would be easy...

Anyway I've cammed out of some of the flat head screws ever so slightly
here and there and Elecraft graciously provided me with a few
replacements to get rid of the ones that were starting to look bad. But
this other issue is starting to get really quite ugly.

I've gotten to the point where I no longer want to even try opening it
because of how far I have too take it apart because of these issues. I
got an FM filter for Xmas and because the left front screw and the
center most screw wouldn't come out of the bottom I ended up having to
pull the front panel and the sub RX in order to install a filter.
(granted the Sub RX had to come out partially to get the filter in place
but had to come out all the way for the other work).

Anyway I think I'd like to replace some of these parts with new ones as
the excessive use and attempts with lock-tite have been less than
successful. I'm wondering if I should try to make up a BOM of what I
need from the Elecraft manual (using elecraft part numbers of course)
and then place an order or if I should just head to my parts catalog
house and try there.

Finally my last question quite concerns me.... I've noted that from
several applications on and off that the board has gotten scratched here
and there around the screw holes. Being that these are commonly ground
points I'm quite worried that I'm not getting the grounding that I
should... Just after installing the FM filter I noted that when I plug
my mic into the front panel that I get about a .5S unit drop in noise
level when the mic is plugged in. Granted I think this is the first
time I've even listened to the radio w/ the mic unplugged (even though I
rarely ever use it)... But this makes me wonder what may be up here....
FWIW I have put shorting wires around the L's in the back for the
"Improving the immunity of the Rear-Panel RS232 and Audio Connectors to
RF" modification.

I greatly appreciate any advice. Sorry for asking these questions in
this format with so much unfounded fear but I ask as I don't really have
the time to do a lot of trial an error and documentation/testing like
I'd like in order to make the right decision. I kinda figure that those
with many of these around would be able to much more quickly answer to
questions such as what happens if some of those ground connections are
less than optimal... If all else fails and the compromised grounds
causes issue I think with some exacto and copper tape work I can make
those areas very robust to lock washers.

Greatly appreciated gentlemen.

~Brett (KC7OTG)

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Byron N6NUL

Re: K3 Bottom Front Panel Issues

In reply to this post by Brett Howard

On Dec 30, 2009, at 2:29 AM, Brett Howard wrote:

> I've also tried using lock-tite to hold the standoffs onto the screws
> from the board side <snip>

I have also considered using either a drop of blue loctite or a tiny bit of Phil's grease as a thread locker / vibration protection for the screws in my K1 and was wondering if anyone had any first hand experience to report.

Byron KI6NUL
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 Bottom Front Panel Issues

Byron,

I would hesitate to put locktite of any kind on the enclosure screws -
they would be a bear to remove.
Since these are steel screws run into aluminum, the two dissimilar
metals can create drag and can actually lock together, so you have an
effective 'threadlocker' already. One trick I learned long ago is to
put a tiny drop of oil on the screwthreads when inserting a steel screw
into aluminum to assure that the screw will be fully seated. Often the
threads can drag and give the appearance of being tight, but in fact are
still loose.

I see no problem with using locktite on the screws that mount the board
to either standoffs or the 2-D connectors, but if lockwashers are used
and the screw is adequately tightened, they seldom come loose. Some
builders seem to use "wimpy wrists", maybe they are afraid of breaking
something, but the screws holding the board to standoffs or 2D
connectors should be made more than just snug, give them that "little
extra".

73,
Don W3FPR

Byron Servies wrote:

> On Dec 30, 2009, at 2:29 AM, Brett Howard wrote:
>
>
>> I've also tried using lock-tite to hold the standoffs onto the screws
>> from the board side <snip>
>>
>
> I have also considered using either a drop of blue loctite or a tiny bit of Phil's grease as a thread locker / vibration protection for the screws in my K1 and was wondering if anyone had any first hand experience to report.
>
> Byron KI6NUL
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2594 - Release Date: 12/30/09 02:27:00
>
>

Rick Prather

Re: K3 Bottom Front Panel Issues

In reply to this post by Brett Howard

Brett,

You might consider ordering the Stainless fastener kit K3SSKT instead of spending the time to inventory the ones you'll need.

You get a complete collection of all the exterior screws and nuts with plenty of extras for later.

Oh yeah, get some new, quality screw drivers..

Rick
K6LE

On 12/30/2009, at 2:29 , Brett Howard wrote:

> Ok I know I need to buy new screwdrivers. I'm in the process of buying
> a set of Whia drivers. I feel that the driver I've been using fits
> fairly well but the Whia set I have at work seem to fit a little
> better.
>
> Anyway I'm starting to have issues with my bottom front panel after
> getting into this radio as many times as I have... After the DVR, the
> audio low pass filter, several additions of filters, the sub RX, and
> every mod on the website (except for the resistor change for the P3)
> I'll be doing it when the P3 arrives...
>
> Anyway the center most screw position was the one giving me the most
> fits before. This wasn't near as big of an issue when I didn't have the
> sub receiver. But now that I have that piece in place being able to put
> a screwdriver on the top side has become much more work intensive.
>
> I've also tried using lock-tite to hold the standoffs onto the screws
> from the board side so that Its very easy to remove the screws from the
> bottom and I figured if I ever had to replace the RF board that
> replacing a few standoffs at the same time would be easy...
>
> Anyway I've cammed out of some of the flat head screws ever so slightly
> here and there and Elecraft graciously provided me with a few
> replacements to get rid of the ones that were starting to look bad. But
> this other issue is starting to get really quite ugly.
>
> I've gotten to the point where I no longer want to even try opening it
> because of how far I have too take it apart because of these issues. I
> got an FM filter for Xmas and because the left front screw and the
> center most screw wouldn't come out of the bottom I ended up having to
> pull the front panel and the sub RX in order to install a filter.
> (granted the Sub RX had to come out partially to get the filter in place
> but had to come out all the way for the other work).
>
> Anyway I think I'd like to replace some of these parts with new ones as
> the excessive use and attempts with lock-tite have been less than
> successful. I'm wondering if I should try to make up a BOM of what I
> need from the Elecraft manual (using elecraft part numbers of course)
> and then place an order or if I should just head to my parts catalog
> house and try there.
>
> Finally my last question quite concerns me.... I've noted that from
> several applications on and off that the board has gotten scratched here
> and there around the screw holes. Being that these are commonly ground
> points I'm quite worried that I'm not getting the grounding that I
> should... Just after installing the FM filter I noted that when I plug
> my mic into the front panel that I get about a .5S unit drop in noise
> level when the mic is plugged in. Granted I think this is the first
> time I've even listened to the radio w/ the mic unplugged (even though I
> rarely ever use it)... But this makes me wonder what may be up here....
> FWIW I have put shorting wires around the L's in the back for the
> "Improving the immunity of the Rear-Panel RS232 and Audio Connectors to
> RF" modification.

Merv Schweigert

Re: K3 Bottom Front Panel Issues

Here in the Pacific the SS kit is a must, my screw heads tarnished in a
couple
months on stock screws. I use a tiny dollop of penetrox or similar on
the threads
to make sure they come loose next time. Here in the salt everything
corrodes.
And the proper size driver tip is most important.
73 Merv KH7C

> Brett,
>
> You might consider ordering the Stainless fastener kit K3SSKT instead of spending the time to inventory the ones you'll need.
>
> You get a complete collection of all the exterior screws and nuts with plenty of extras for later.
>
> Oh yeah, get some new, quality screw drivers..
>
> Rick
> K6LE
>
> On 12/30/2009, at 2:29 , Brett Howard wrote:
>
>
>> Ok I know I need to buy new screwdrivers. I'm in the process of buying
>> a set of Whia drivers. I feel that the driver I've been using fits
>> fairly well but the Whia set I have at work seem to fit a little
>> better.
>>
>> Anyway I'm starting to have issues with my bottom front panel after
>> getting into this radio as many times as I have... After the DVR, the
>> audio low pass filter, several additions of filters, the sub RX, and
>> every mod on the website (except for the resistor change for the P3)
>> I'll be doing it when the P3 arrives...
>>
>> Anyway the center most screw position was the one giving me the most
>> fits before. This wasn't near as big of an issue when I didn't have the
>> sub receiver. But now that I have that piece in place being able to put
>> a screwdriver on the top side has become much more work intensive.
>>
>> I've also tried using lock-tite to hold the standoffs onto the screws
>> from the board side so that Its very easy to remove the screws from the
>> bottom and I figured if I ever had to replace the RF board that
>> replacing a few standoffs at the same time would be easy...
>>
>> Anyway I've cammed out of some of the flat head screws ever so slightly
>> here and there and Elecraft graciously provided me with a few
>> replacements to get rid of the ones that were starting to look bad. But
>> this other issue is starting to get really quite ugly.
>>
>> I've gotten to the point where I no longer want to even try opening it
>> because of how far I have too take it apart because of these issues. I
>> got an FM filter for Xmas and because the left front screw and the
>> center most screw wouldn't come out of the bottom I ended up having to
>> pull the front panel and the sub RX in order to install a filter.
>> (granted the Sub RX had to come out partially to get the filter in place
>> but had to come out all the way for the other work).
>>
>> Anyway I think I'd like to replace some of these parts with new ones as
>> the excessive use and attempts with lock-tite have been less than
>> successful. I'm wondering if I should try to make up a BOM of what I
>> need from the Elecraft manual (using elecraft part numbers of course)
>> and then place an order or if I should just head to my parts catalog
>> house and try there.
>>
>> Finally my last question quite concerns me.... I've noted that from
>> several applications on and off that the board has gotten scratched here
>> and there around the screw holes. Being that these are commonly ground
>> points I'm quite worried that I'm not getting the grounding that I
>> should... Just after installing the FM filter I noted that when I plug
>> my mic into the front panel that I get about a .5S unit drop in noise
>> level when the mic is plugged in. Granted I think this is the first
>> time I've even listened to the radio w/ the mic unplugged (even though I
>> rarely ever use it)... But this makes me wonder what may be up here....
>> FWIW I have put shorting wires around the L's in the back for the
>> "Improving the immunity of the Rear-Panel RS232 and Audio Connectors to
>> RF" modification.
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

P.B. Christensen

Re: K3 Bottom Front Panel Issues

> Oh yeah, get some new, quality screw drivers..

Excellent advice and probably one of the best investments made when
assembling or performing work on the K3. At first, I purchased new #0 and
#1 Phillips-head drivers from Klein Tools. The K3 assembly manual warns
against the use of power screwdrivers although I'm now using a convertible
Makita model DF010DSE with an auto-stop clutch. At the most sensitive
clutch settings, it's wholly appropriate for working on the K3.

If anyone is thinking about using a power screwdriver despite Elecraft's
advisory notice, ensure that it has a clutch (preferably auto-stop), and try
to find a model that also has a variable-speed motor to control the start of
the screw. I manually start the screw with the Makita, feeling for any
resistance, then apply low RPM power with the clutch engaged.

Paul, W9AC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Brett Howard

Re: K3 Bottom Front Panel Issues

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Well so I've ordered a set of Wiha Driver-Loc drivers. I got the
ESD-Safe handle and a set of bits for pretty much everything I use.

Ok with that taken care of I ordered replacement split washers, inside
tooth washers, black and nickel screws and new standoffs. I also
ordered the stainless steel screw kit. I take this K3 to the Oregon
coast (pretty much literally to the beach) for FD every year.. So the
stainless screws didn't seem like that bad of an idea (and it gets me
new screws for the bottom of the unit)...

I'll use a bit of heat to remove the screws with loc-tite on them and
I'll rebuild the thing w/o the loc-tite. I think I'm also going to make
some copper tape discs to put around the screw holes where the boards
traces have been scratched. I'll probably solder the discs to the board
around their outside to ensure good grounding.

Figured while I was in there I ordered the Rev. D DSP board and I'll get
that all updated. With all that and the P3 FD should be fun this
year... ;)

Thanks all

~Brett

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html