K3 - Bug in firmware found?

[Jeff Cochrane - VK4XA]

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

[Iain MacDonnell - N6ML-2]

Just my impression... but I don't think the Band Map is really
intended as a "lock out" - just a way to have normally-unused bands
skipped when cycling through. If you only use one band, you wouldn't
be expected to use the band up/down buttons at all ;)

    ~iain / N6ML


On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 11:48 PM, Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> Recently, Gary VK4FD and I were participating in the John Moyle Field Day here in Nth QLD. (It was on at the same time as CQ WW SSB)
> As we were just 2 of 5 operators in the club station (VK4WAT) we decided to lock down our K3's so that the yaecomwood drivers would be able to use the K3's.
> Each K3 was locked down so that it was a single band radio, mine on 40M and Gary's on 20M.
>
> That's when we noticed the possible problem.
>
> You can lock out all but one band in firmware but the radio will still change bands!
>
> On my radio, I had all bands but 40M locked out, yet it could still be changed to (And it was fully operational on) 20M and 80M even though those bands were locked out.
> The behaviour on 20M is noted in brackets.
>
> Try the following:
> Config: Band Map
> Turn off all bands but 40M. (20M)
> Exit Config menu:
>
> >From 40M band. (20M)
> Press Band UP
> Rig changes to 80M. (40M)
> Press Band Up again.
> Rig changes back to 40M (20M)
>
> >From 40M band:
> Press Band Down
> Rig changes to 20M. (15M)
> Press Band Down again
> Rig changes back to 40M (20M)
>
> Note that at no time does the rig change to one of the so called WARC bands in these 2 tests.
> However, if the test is done with the rig only having 30M enabled, then shifts to 5MHz and 17M occur.
>
> As my rig has the 2M internal transverter I have also tried that band with the following results:
> 2M band enabled, all others locked out.
> BND UP selects 10M
> BND DWN selects 80M
>
> The behaviour is similar on all bands when only one band is enabled.
>
> In each rig we also tried with 2 bands unlocked and each rig performed as it should with all bands but the 2 selected for operation being locked out and unable to be used.
> So it appears that this issue occurs only when all but one band is locked out.
>
> This has been checked on both my K3 (Serial #4257) and Gary VK4FD's K3 (Serial #679) with the same results.
> Gary's firmware revision at the time was v 4.25, mine was v 4.30 and although I now have 4.31 in the rig it still does this behaviour.
>
> I'd like others to try the same procedure to see if the same results are found and then we can get Wayne to checkout the firmware.
>
> Over to you all.
>
>
> Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF
> Innisfail, QLD, Australia
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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[wayne burdick]

It was never intended to make the K3 a 1-band radio, but I'll add this  
to the list.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Apr 4, 2011, at 5:00 PM, iain macdonnell - N6ML wrote:

> Just my impression... but I don't think the Band Map is really
> intended as a "lock out" - just a way to have normally-unused bands
> skipped when cycling through. If you only use one band, you wouldn't
> be expected to use the band up/down buttons at all ;)
>
>    ~iain / N6ML
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 11:48 PM, Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>> Recently, Gary VK4FD and I were participating in the John Moyle  
>> Field Day here in Nth QLD. (It was on at the same time as CQ WW SSB)
>> As we were just 2 of 5 operators in the club station (VK4WAT) we  
>> decided to lock down our K3's so that the yaecomwood drivers would  
>> be able to use the K3's.
>> Each K3 was locked down so that it was a single band radio, mine on  
>> 40M and Gary's on 20M.
>>
>> That's when we noticed the possible problem.
>>
>> You can lock out all but one band in firmware but the radio will  
>> still change bands!
>>
>> On my radio, I had all bands but 40M locked out, yet it could still  
>> be changed to (And it was fully operational on) 20M and 80M even  
>> though those bands were locked out.
>> The behaviour on 20M is noted in brackets.
>>
>> Try the following:
>> Config: Band Map
>> Turn off all bands but 40M. (20M)
>> Exit Config menu:
>>
>>> From 40M band. (20M)
>> Press Band UP
>> Rig changes to 80M. (40M)
>> Press Band Up again.
>> Rig changes back to 40M (20M)
>>
>>> From 40M band:
>> Press Band Down
>> Rig changes to 20M. (15M)
>> Press Band Down again
>> Rig changes back to 40M (20M)
>>
>> Note that at no time does the rig change to one of the so called  
>> WARC bands in these 2 tests.
>> However, if the test is done with the rig only having 30M enabled,  
>> then shifts to 5MHz and 17M occur.
>>
>> As my rig has the 2M internal transverter I have also tried that  
>> band with the following results:
>> 2M band enabled, all others locked out.
>> BND UP selects 10M
>> BND DWN selects 80M
>>
>> The behaviour is similar on all bands when only one band is enabled.
>>
>> In each rig we also tried with 2 bands unlocked and each rig  
>> performed as it should with all bands but the 2 selected for  
>> operation being locked out and unable to be used.
>> So it appears that this issue occurs only when all but one band is  
>> locked out.
>>
>> This has been checked on both my K3 (Serial #4257) and Gary VK4FD's  
>> K3 (Serial #679) with the same results.
>> Gary's firmware revision at the time was v 4.25, mine was v 4.30  
>> and although I now have 4.31 in the rig it still does this behaviour.
>>
>> I'd like others to try the same procedure to see if the same  
>> results are found and then we can get Wayne to checkout the firmware.
>>
>> Over to you all.
>>
>>
>> Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF
>> Innisfail, QLD, Australia
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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[Gary Gregory]

*Please note the circumstances......*
*
*
*1. Each of the K3's were to be used on a single band.*
*2. 'other' operators were able to use either K3 on the band chosen.*
*3. Resonant antennas were connected to the K3's*
*4. The 'other' operating position had 2 radios.*
*5. The 'other' radios were for operating on 10/15M, and 80M*
*
*
*Jeff and I wanted to have our K3's set for a single band to prevent an
operator NOT familiar with the K3 from changing bands to one of those that
could cause either an issue for us OR for the other stations.*
*
*
*Please remember, this was a Field Day contest. The 'other' operators had
various skill levels and were not at all familiar with
modern transceivers such as the K3.*
*
*
*Well I don't wish to be unkind to 'others' but if you have been on a field
day effort before you should understand our (Jeff and I) point of view in
wanting to protect our equipment from inadvertant operation at a
most inappropriate time?...:-)*
*
*
*Thanks to Wayne for looking at the FW, it is in NO WAY a deal breaker for
us...we are 2 happy campers :-)*
*
*
*But I have to say, Jeff looks pretty scary at 5am :-)*
*
*
*73's*
*Gary*
*
*
On 5 April 2011 10:31, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It was never intended to make the K3 a 1-band radio, but I'll add this
> to the list.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> On Apr 4, 2011, at 5:00 PM, iain macdonnell - N6ML wrote:
>
> > Just my impression... but I don't think the Band Map is really
> > intended as a "lock out" - just a way to have normally-unused bands
> > skipped when cycling through. If you only use one band, you wouldn't
> > be expected to use the band up/down buttons at all ;)
> >
> >    ~iain / N6ML
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 11:48 PM, Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Hi everyone,
> >> Recently, Gary VK4FD and I were participating in the John Moyle
> >> Field Day here in Nth QLD. (It was on at the same time as CQ WW SSB)
> >> As we were just 2 of 5 operators in the club station (VK4WAT) we
> >> decided to lock down our K3's so that the yaecomwood drivers would
> >> be able to use the K3's.
> >> Each K3 was locked down so that it was a single band radio, mine on
> >> 40M and Gary's on 20M.
> >>
> >> That's when we noticed the possible problem.
> >>
> >> You can lock out all but one band in firmware but the radio will
> >> still change bands!
> >>
> >> On my radio, I had all bands but 40M locked out, yet it could still
> >> be changed to (And it was fully operational on) 20M and 80M even
> >> though those bands were locked out.
> >> The behaviour on 20M is noted in brackets.
> >>
> >> Try the following:
> >> Config: Band Map
> >> Turn off all bands but 40M. (20M)
> >> Exit Config menu:
> >>
> >>> From 40M band. (20M)
> >> Press Band UP
> >> Rig changes to 80M. (40M)
> >> Press Band Up again.
> >> Rig changes back to 40M (20M)
> >>
> >>> From 40M band:
> >> Press Band Down
> >> Rig changes to 20M. (15M)
> >> Press Band Down again
> >> Rig changes back to 40M (20M)
> >>
> >> Note that at no time does the rig change to one of the so called
> >> WARC bands in these 2 tests.
> >> However, if the test is done with the rig only having 30M enabled,
> >> then shifts to 5MHz and 17M occur.
> >>
> >> As my rig has the 2M internal transverter I have also tried that
> >> band with the following results:
> >> 2M band enabled, all others locked out.
> >> BND UP selects 10M
> >> BND DWN selects 80M
> >>
> >> The behaviour is similar on all bands when only one band is enabled.
> >>
> >> In each rig we also tried with 2 bands unlocked and each rig
> >> performed as it should with all bands but the 2 selected for
> >> operation being locked out and unable to be used.
> >> So it appears that this issue occurs only when all but one band is
> >> locked out.
> >>
> >> This has been checked on both my K3 (Serial #4257) and Gary VK4FD's
> >> K3 (Serial #679) with the same results.
> >> Gary's firmware revision at the time was v 4.25, mine was v 4.30
> >> and although I now have 4.31 in the rig it still does this behaviour.
> >>
> >> I'd like others to try the same procedure to see if the same
> >> results are found and then we can get Wayne to checkout the firmware.
> >>
> >> Over to you all.
> >>
> >>
> >> Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF
> >> Innisfail, QLD, Australia
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--

*VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile
Elecraft Equipment
K3 #679, KPA-500 #018
Living the dream!!!*
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[Gary Hinson]

... While you're at it, the VFO "Lock" function doesn't block QSYs using the
band button, or sent from the logging program, or using the XIT, and perhaps
other ways too.  It would be nice if it actually locked the VFO frequency,
please Wayne.  This *may* account for the occasional small TX frequency
jumps of some K3 DXpeditioners.  [Some might be deliberately moving escape
dQRM.]

73,
Gary  ZL2iFB

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 April 2011 12:32 PM
> To: iain macdonnell - N6ML
> Cc: [hidden email]; Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Bug in firmware found?
>
> It was never intended to make the K3 a 1-band radio, but I'll
> add this  
> to the list.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> On Apr 4, 2011, at 5:00 PM, iain macdonnell - N6ML wrote:
>
> > Just my impression... but I don't think the Band Map is really
> > intended as a "lock out" - just a way to have normally-unused bands
> > skipped when cycling through. If you only use one band, you wouldn't
> > be expected to use the band up/down buttons at all ;)
> >
> >    ~iain / N6ML
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 11:48 PM, Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Hi everyone,
> >> Recently, Gary VK4FD and I were participating in the John Moyle  
> >> Field Day here in Nth QLD. (It was on at the same time as
> CQ WW SSB)
> >> As we were just 2 of 5 operators in the club station (VK4WAT) we  
> >> decided to lock down our K3's so that the yaecomwood
> drivers would  
> >> be able to use the K3's.
> >> Each K3 was locked down so that it was a single band
> radio, mine on  
> >> 40M and Gary's on 20M.
> >>
> >> That's when we noticed the possible problem.
> >>
> >> You can lock out all but one band in firmware but the radio will  
> >> still change bands!
> >>
> >> On my radio, I had all bands but 40M locked out, yet it
> could still  
> >> be changed to (And it was fully operational on) 20M and 80M even  
> >> though those bands were locked out.
> >> The behaviour on 20M is noted in brackets.
> >>
> >> Try the following:
> >> Config: Band Map
> >> Turn off all bands but 40M. (20M)
> >> Exit Config menu:
> >>
> >>> From 40M band. (20M)
> >> Press Band UP
> >> Rig changes to 80M. (40M)
> >> Press Band Up again.
> >> Rig changes back to 40M (20M)
> >>
> >>> From 40M band:
> >> Press Band Down
> >> Rig changes to 20M. (15M)
> >> Press Band Down again
> >> Rig changes back to 40M (20M)
> >>
> >> Note that at no time does the rig change to one of the so called  
> >> WARC bands in these 2 tests.
> >> However, if the test is done with the rig only having 30M
> enabled,  
> >> then shifts to 5MHz and 17M occur.
> >>
> >> As my rig has the 2M internal transverter I have also tried that  
> >> band with the following results:
> >> 2M band enabled, all others locked out.
> >> BND UP selects 10M
> >> BND DWN selects 80M
> >>
> >> The behaviour is similar on all bands when only one band
> is enabled.
> >>
> >> In each rig we also tried with 2 bands unlocked and each rig  
> >> performed as it should with all bands but the 2 selected for  
> >> operation being locked out and unable to be used.
> >> So it appears that this issue occurs only when all but one
> band is  
> >> locked out.
> >>
> >> This has been checked on both my K3 (Serial #4257) and
> Gary VK4FD's  
> >> K3 (Serial #679) with the same results.
> >> Gary's firmware revision at the time was v 4.25, mine was v 4.30  
> >> and although I now have 4.31 in the rig it still does this
> behaviour.
> >>
> >> I'd like others to try the same procedure to see if the same  
> >> results are found and then we can get Wayne to checkout
> the firmware.
> >>
> >> Over to you all.
> >>
> >>
> >> Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF
> >> Innisfail, QLD, Australia
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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[Bill W4ZV]

Gary Hinson wrote

... While you're at it, the VFO "Lock" function doesn't block QSYs using the
band button, or sent from the logging program, or using the XIT, and perhaps
other ways too.  It would be nice if it actually locked the VFO frequency,
please Wayne.  This *may* account for the occasional small TX frequency
jumps of some K3 DXpeditioners.  [Some might be deliberately moving escape

When using one receiver and REV to scan a split pileup while VFOA is LOCKed on the DX frequency, it's possible for VFOA to change slightly if the Main knob is still spinning when you release REV.  Since I added the KRX3 and use dual RXs in split pileups I haven't noticed this as much.

73,  Bill

[Vernon Mauery]

On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Bill W4ZV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Gary Hinson wrote:
>>
>> ... While you're at it, the VFO "Lock" function doesn't block QSYs using
>> the
>> band button, or sent from the logging program, or using the XIT, and
>> perhaps
>> other ways too.  It would be nice if it actually locked the VFO frequency,
>> please Wayne.  This *may* account for the occasional small TX frequency
>> jumps of some K3 DXpeditioners.  [Some might be deliberately moving escape
>>
>
> When using one receiver and REV to scan a split pileup while VFOA is LOCKed
> on the DX frequency, it's possible for VFOA to change slightly if the Main
> knob is still spinning when you release REV.

Just tested this race condition and found it to be real.  Using either
REV or A/B you can change the 'locked' VFO if the right knob is
spinning when you are switching VFO places.

Another way to get around the lock is to use a memory recall.  Not
sure if that would be classified as a bug or not, since memories are
for both VFOs and it would be weird to change only one VFO.  I suppose
that could be a setting.  That would classify it as a feature.

Honestly neither of these is terribly important to me.  But being a
software engineer for my day job, whenever the firmware is discussed,
it piques my interest.

I was about to report that the LOCK button didn't LOCK all the
controls on my radio (like the lock button on most any other device).
But then I read in the manual, that it was just a VFO lock.  It really
surprised me when I had the LOCK engaged and I bumped the PWR knob and
my power setting changed.  But that was by design.  I did find the
concept counter-intuitive.  (and by intuition, I really mean
experience.)

--Vernon N7OH

>  Since I added the KRX3 and use
> dual RXs in split pileups I haven't noticed this as much.
>
> 73,  Bill
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Bug-in-firmware-found-tp6240623p6241882.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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