[K3] CW via serial cable question

[Vk2NU]

Hi All,

I've been reading about the ability of the K3 to have CW sent on the serial cable used for rig control. From memory this was possible on the K2 but most 3rd party logging/contest programs didn't support this.

Is this the same as the K3, or is the set-up different this time so standard logging and contest programs will be able to utilise this ?? Hope this makes sense!!

Cheers

David, Vk2NU




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[Ed Muns, W0YK]

> I've been reading about the ability of the K3 to have CW sent
> on the serial cable used for rig control. From memory this
> was possible on the K2 but most 3rd party logging/contest
> programs didn't support this.
>
> Is this the same as the K3, or is the set-up different this
> time so standard logging and contest programs will be able to
> utilise this ?? Hope this makes sense!!

Any software that provides CW keying via a serial port can key the K3 with a
standard serial cable connected between the PC and K3.  In the K3
configuration menu, you select which of the RS232 signal lines is used for
CW keying.

73,
Ed - W0YK

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[Vic K2VCO]

[hidden email] wrote:

> I've been reading about the ability of the K3 to have CW sent on the
> serial cable used for rig control. From memory this was possible on
> the K2 but most 3rd party logging/contest programs didn't support
> this.
>
> Is this the same as the K3, or is the set-up different this time so
> standard logging and contest programs will be able to utilise this ??
> Hope this makes sense!!

The K3 has a superset of the K2's command set. So anything the K2 can
do, the K3 can do as well.

There's no reason that contest logging programs could not have used the
direct CW feature of the K2. This was probably just because the
developers didn't see it as important -- there were only a small number
of K2's compared to radios of other types, and there was already a way
to key it, although not so elegant.

However, if I am not mistaken, many, many contesters and DXpeditions
will be using K3's, enough to make an impression on the developers.
Especially when some of the developers themselves will have K3's!
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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[Vk2NU]

Thanks Ed and Vic for quick replies..

I was always surprised the function wasn't widely supported by contesting programs for the K2, as it had developed a good rep as a contest radio, but nice to hear that the K3 will work (as is) for cw keying, without logging programmers having to modify their software !!

One less cable between the radio and PC is always good news, now if you could only assign FSK keying to the serial cable I could forget all about the 15 pin plug on the back of the K3..

Thanks again..

David, Vk2NU
>
> There's no reason that contest logging programs could not have used the
> direct CW feature of the K2. This was probably just because the
> developers didn't see it as important -- there were only a small number
> of K2's compared to radios of other types, and there was already a way
> to key it, although not so elegant.
>

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[Ed Muns, W0YK]

> One less cable between the radio and PC is always good news,
> now if you could only assign FSK keying to the serial cable I
> could forget all about the 15 pin plug on the back of the K3..

This is on the K3 firmware task list.  Just a small matter of firmware, but
there are other higher priority features Wayne is working on.

73,
Ed - W0YK

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[Ed K1EP]

At 10/15/2007 01:58 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I've been reading about the ability of the K3 to have CW sent on the
>serial cable used for rig control. From memory this was possible on
>the K2 but most 3rd party logging/contest programs didn't support this.
>
>Is this the same as the K3, or is the set-up different this time so
>standard logging and contest programs will be able to utilise this
>?? Hope this makes sense!!

I was using this feature over the weekend to send CW using the serial
cable line.  I was using N1MM logger with my K3.

>Cheers
>
>David, Vk2NU
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
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[Don Nesbitt]

Hi Dave - the only software that I found that directly supported this in the
K2 was the MixW (http://www.mixw.net/) program.  As I recall, it directly
supported the "KY" (could have that nomenclature wrong) commands for keying.

I did use it for a while and was able to put the right code into the
function buttons in the program to have it work - and - it worked quite
well! Nice to not have to deal with extra cables!

I also recall that after a lot of inquiries into other software
possibilities, most developers didn't want to support that command set as it
presented lots of issues with internal program timing and interrupting
sequences within various routines (I'm sure that I've misstated that and
someone in the programming arena will correct me!)

Maybe there will be some further development in this area. It would be nice!
73 es gud dxing -- Don N4HH

<SNIP>

I've been reading about the ability of the K3 to have CW sent on the serial
cable used for rig control. From memory this was possible on the K2 but most
3rd party logging/contest programs didn't support this.

Is this the same as the K3, or is the set-up different this time so standard
logging and contest programs will be able to utilise this ?? Hope this makes
sense!!

Cheers

David, Vk2NU
<SNIP>

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[Don Nesbitt]

Ed - my understanding is that N1MM does NOT support the "KY" command set.  I
too use N1MM to key through the serial port but use a simple single
transistor switch to do it.

The "KY" command set would allow one to key WITHOUT any additional "keying"
circuit.  See page 309 of the N1MM Logger manual released on 7-10-2007 -
under Supported Radios - Section 50.3 Elecraft for a reference.  73 -- Don
N4HH

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ed K1EP
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 5:42 AM
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] CW via serial cable question

<SNIP>
>
>I've been reading about the ability of the K3 to have CW sent on the
>serial cable used for rig control. From memory this was possible on
>the K2 but most 3rd party logging/contest programs didn't support this.

<SNIP>

I was using this feature over the weekend to send CW using the serial
cable line.  I was using N1MM logger with my K3.


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[Vk2NU]

Thanks Ed, I was actually only joking and I didn't think this would be
possible -- excellent stuff

Cheers

David

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Muns [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, 15 October 2007 5:17 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] [K3] CW via serial cable question

> One less cable between the radio and PC is always good news,
> now if you could only assign FSK keying to the serial cable I
> could forget all about the 15 pin plug on the back of the K3..

This is on the K3 firmware task list.  Just a small matter of firmware, but
there are other higher priority features Wayne is working on.

73,
Ed - W0YK


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[Julian, G4ILO]

I use MixW and I was not aware that it directly supported K2 KY
keying. The macros do have support for direct entry of CAT commands,
and you can use that facility to send raw KY commands to the K2.
Perhaps that is what you meant. It would allow the facility to be used
to send fixed text, just like keyer memories, but you cannot insert
variables from the log like the other station's call or an incremented
serial number, nor is it usable to send text typed in real time.

Because you are limited by the K2 protocol to how many characters you
can send at a time, and must poll the buffer until it is ready before
you can send more, you can't use this method to send very long texts.

On the other hand, perhaps they have added support in a recent update
and I wasn't aware of it?
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf


On 10/15/07, Don Nesbitt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Dave - the only software that I found that directly supported this in the
> K2 was the MixW (http://www.mixw.net/) program.  As I recall, it directly
> supported the "KY" (could have that nomenclature wrong) commands for keying.
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[Don Nesbitt]

Yes - thanks for jogging my memory Julian - it's been a long time since I
tried it but you are absolutely correct - I could enter the KY commands in
MixW with fixed messages and it worked fine - but - (ah, the proverbial
"but") was limited to "canned" messages.  Never could figure out if there
was a way to insert a variable within the text.  73 -- Don N4HH

<SNIP>

I use MixW and I was not aware that it directly supported K2 KY
keying. The macros do have support for direct entry of CAT commands,
and you can use that facility to send raw KY commands to the K2.
Perhaps that is what you meant. It would allow the facility to be used
to send fixed text, just like keyer memories, but you cannot insert
variables from the log like the other station's call or an incremented
serial number, nor is it usable to send text typed in real time.

Because you are limited by the K2 protocol to how many characters you
can send at a time, and must poll the buffer until it is ready before
you can send more, you can't use this method to send very long texts.

On the other hand, perhaps they have added support in a recent update
and I wasn't aware of it?
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf

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[Ed Muns, W0YK]

> Thanks Ed, I was actually only joking and I didn't think this
> would be possible -- excellent stuff

Almost anything is possible with Wayne as chief engineer and firmware at his
disposal.  Be careful what you ask for because you'll probably get it.

73,
Ed - W0YK

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[Ed Muns, W0YK]

The K3 RS232 port is just that ... RS232.  So, no level-shifting transistor
(or "keying transistor") is needed.  Any software that sends CW via the
serial port on the PC can key the K3 directly.  That's the beauty of the K3
design ... well, one of hundreds of beautiful things about the K3.  Via the
configuration menu, either RTS or DTR can be chosen for CW keying, in
addition to PTT.  On that same serial port, the RxD and TxD lines are used
for radio control.  Just use a standard generic serial cable, nothing else.

73,
Ed - W0YK

> Ed - my understanding is that N1MM does NOT support the "KY"
> command set.  I too use N1MM to key through the serial port
> but use a simple single transistor switch to do it.
>
> The "KY" command set would allow one to key WITHOUT any
> additional "keying"
> circuit.  See page 309 of the N1MM Logger manual released on
> 7-10-2007 - under Supported Radios - Section 50.3 Elecraft
> for a reference.  73 -- Don N4HH
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ed K1EP
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 5:42 AM
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] CW via serial cable question
>
> <SNIP>
> >
> >I've been reading about the ability of the K3 to have CW sent on the
> >serial cable used for rig control. From memory this was
> possible on the
> >K2 but most 3rd party logging/contest programs didn't support this.
>
> <SNIP>
>
> I was using this feature over the weekend to send CW using
> the serial cable line.  I was using N1MM logger with my K3.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

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[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> There's no reason that contest logging programs could not
> have used the direct CW feature of the K2. This was probably
> just because the developers didn't see it as important -- there
> were only a small number of K2's compared to radios of other
> types, and there was already a way to key it, although not so
> elegant.
>
> However, if I am not mistaken, many, many contesters and DXpeditions
> will be using K3's, enough to make an impression on the developers.

At least one developer of contest software has stated that he will
not waste the effort to implement CW via the KY command since it is
not generally supported.  The KY command works only with the TS-2000,
TS-870, TS-570, TS-480, SDR-1000, FLEX-5000, K2 and now K3.  

I know it's heresy here, but those radios collectively represent a
very small portion of the user base for any contest logger.  

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV
 

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[Julian, G4ILO]

Even less chance, then, that any software will support the K3's in-DSP
CW and data decoding. :(

The tragedy is that it would not be difficult to add this support.
Much easier than writing a dedicated K3 control program will
full-blown logging and contest capabilities!

Simon has said that HRD will support it. Unfortunately I have never
managed to get to grips with that program's user interface, and I'm
not sure (as a non-serious contester) whether HRD counts as a "contest
logger" anyway.

--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf


On 10/15/07, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I know it's heresy here, but those radios collectively represent a
> very small portion of the user base for any contest logger.
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