Elecraft

K3: Configuring N1MM to send CW

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Barry Pfeil

K3: Configuring N1MM to send CW

VE3KI's explanation is absolutely correct, but I would add a CAUTION that once you have this arrangement set up, be careful to boot your computer and N1MM BEFORE turning on your K3 or at least before enabling transmit. This is because some of the start-up "processes" seem to key the radio when you wouldn't want it to be keyed. I'm using a USB-to-Serial converter and that may makes things worse (or better?).

73, Barry, K6RM

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Bill Feidt

Re: K3: Configuring N1MM to send CW

Barry Pfeil wrote:

> VE3KI's explanation is absolutely correct, but I would add a
> CAUTION that once you have this arrangement set up, be careful to boot
> your computer and N1MM BEFORE turning on your K3 or at least before
> enabling transmit. This is because some of the start-up "processes"
> seem to key the radio when you wouldn't want it to be keyed. I'm using
> a USB-to-Serial converter and that may makes things worse (or better?).

Thanks to all who responded to my question. The good news is that with VE3KI's
assistance I was able to get N1MM CW working using the Elecraft USB to Serial
cable as the only connection between my computer and the rig. The quality of
the generated CW was fine; no stuttering or halts. The bad news is that, for me
at least, N1MM is very unstable when CW keying is activated in the software.
Periodically, and under circumstances I don't understand, the "CW IF"
application starts consuming more and more CPU cycles until it hogs almost 100%
of available cycles and the computer hangs. And sometimes when I click one of
the N1MM "send CW" buttons, nothing happens. This is always a harbinger of a
near-future computer crash.

Also, I have to activate N1MM before turning on the K3. If I do the opposite,
the K3 momentarily sends a CW signal and N1MM crashes.

Rich (VE3KI) suggested that I might try reverting to version 8.12.7 of N1MM.
I'll do this and, if the results are favorable, I'll report back.

Following suggestions made here, I've also subscribed to the N1MM reflector and
will report the current problem over there (where it probably belongs).

Again, thanks for everyone's input.

73,

Bill/NG3K
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WILLIS COOKE

Re: K3: Configuring N1MM to send CW

This is a very well known problem. It has been documented by N1MM and many contest publications. It is not a problem with N1MM, it is a problem with WINDOWS. If you change to another version of N1MM or a different logging program, you will have the same trouble. The usual solution is to purchase and use a WinKeyer. Virtually all CW contesters
have done this. The other alternative is to revert to DOS and an old unsupported DOS logger. I am not sure if buying a MAC will help.

The problem is the way that WINDOWS handles interrupts. It does not give a high enough priority to the serial bus to allow proper keying at anything but very slow speeds.

Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
K5EWJ

--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Bill Feidt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Bill Feidt <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Configuring N1MM to send CW
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 5:45 AM
> Barry Pfeil wrote:
>
> > VE3KI's explanation is absolutely correct, but I
> would add a
> > CAUTION that once you have this arrangement set up, be
> careful to boot
> > your computer and N1MM BEFORE turning on your K3 or at
> least before
> > enabling transmit. This is because some of the
> start-up "processes"
> > seem to key the radio when you wouldn't want it to
> be keyed. I'm using
> > a USB-to-Serial converter and that may makes things
> worse (or better?).
>
> Thanks to all who responded to my question. The good news
> is that with VE3KI's
> assistance I was able to get N1MM CW working using the
> Elecraft USB to Serial
> cable as the only connection between my computer and the
> rig. The quality of
> the generated CW was fine; no stuttering or halts. The bad
> news is that, for me
> at least, N1MM is very unstable when CW keying is activated
> in the software.
> Periodically, and under circumstances I don't
> understand, the "CW IF"
> application starts consuming more and more CPU cycles until
> it hogs almost 100%
> of available cycles and the computer hangs. And sometimes
> when I click one of
> the N1MM "send CW" buttons, nothing happens.
> This is always a harbinger of a
> near-future computer crash.
>
> Also, I have to activate N1MM before turning on the K3. If
> I do the opposite,
> the K3 momentarily sends a CW signal and N1MM crashes.
>
> Rich (VE3KI) suggested that I might try reverting to
> version 8.12.7 of N1MM.
> I'll do this and, if the results are favorable,
> I'll report back.
>
> Following suggestions made here, I've also subscribed
> to the N1MM reflector and
> will report the current problem over there (where it
> probably belongs).
>
> Again, thanks for everyone's input.
>
> 73,
>
> Bill/NG3K
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list:
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

wrmoore

Re: K3: Configuring N1MM to send CW

Sorry, but I've been using N1MM on Windows for several years now and
have never seen this problem!

Randy, KS4L

WILLIS COOKE wrote:

> This is a very well known problem. It has been documented by N1MM and many contest publications. It is not a problem with N1MM, it is a problem with WINDOWS. If you change to another version of N1MM or a different logging program, you will have the same trouble. The usual solution is to purchase and use a WinKeyer. Virtually all CW contesters
> have done this. The other alternative is to revert to DOS and an old unsupported DOS logger. I am not sure if buying a MAC will help.
>
> The problem is the way that WINDOWS handles interrupts. It does not give a high enough priority to the serial bus to allow proper keying at anything but very slow speeds.
>
> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> K5EWJ
>
>
> --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Bill Feidt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> From: Bill Feidt <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Configuring N1MM to send CW
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 5:45 AM
>> Barry Pfeil wrote:
>>
>>
>>> VE3KI's explanation is absolutely correct, but I
>>>
>> would add a
>>
>>> CAUTION that once you have this arrangement set up, be
>>>
>> careful to boot
>>
>>> your computer and N1MM BEFORE turning on your K3 or at
>>>
>> least before
>>
>>> enabling transmit. This is because some of the
>>>
>> start-up "processes"
>>
>>> seem to key the radio when you wouldn't want it to
>>>
>> be keyed. I'm using
>>
>>> a USB-to-Serial converter and that may makes things
>>>
>> worse (or better?).
>>
>> Thanks to all who responded to my question. The good news
>> is that with VE3KI's
>> assistance I was able to get N1MM CW working using the
>> Elecraft USB to Serial
>> cable as the only connection between my computer and the
>> rig. The quality of
>> the generated CW was fine; no stuttering or halts. The bad
>> news is that, for me
>> at least, N1MM is very unstable when CW keying is activated
>> in the software.
>> Periodically, and under circumstances I don't
>> understand, the "CW IF"
>> application starts consuming more and more CPU cycles until
>> it hogs almost 100%
>> of available cycles and the computer hangs. And sometimes
>> when I click one of
>> the N1MM "send CW" buttons, nothing happens.
>> This is always a harbinger of a
>> near-future computer crash.
>>
>> Also, I have to activate N1MM before turning on the K3. If
>> I do the opposite,
>> the K3 momentarily sends a CW signal and N1MM crashes.
>>
>> Rich (VE3KI) suggested that I might try reverting to
>> version 8.12.7 of N1MM.
>> I'll do this and, if the results are favorable,
>> I'll report back.
>>
>> Following suggestions made here, I've also subscribed
>> to the N1MM reflector and
>> will report the current problem over there (where it
>> probably belongs).
>>
>> Again, thanks for everyone's input.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Bill/NG3K
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list:
>> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

David Gilbert

Re: K3: Configuring N1MM to send CW

In reply to this post by WILLIS COOKE

That simply isn't accurate. It might be true on a slow computer (or one
bogged down with other junk) , since N1MM (the author) makes it very
clear on his web site that he doesn't try to optimize the code for older
machines, but I've run direct keying from N1MM in many contests over the
last few years without ever a glitch. K7ZB and I ran a continuous 48
hours as a multi/single entry in the CQWW CW contest last November,
completed over 1500 contacts, and hit the F1 key countless thousands of
times ... all without any issues. Keying speeds were typically 26 to 28
WPM, but often faster.

I know of several other active contesters who have had similar results
without resorting to Winkey, although it is indeed a very nice piece of
hardware.

Dave AB7E

WILLIS COOKE wrote:
> This is a very well known problem. It has been documented by N1MM and many contest publications. It is not a problem with N1MM, it is a problem with WINDOWS. If you change to another version of N1MM or a different logging program, you will have the same trouble. The usual solution is to purchase and use a WinKeyer. Virtually all CW contesters
> have done this. The other alternative is to revert to DOS and an old unsupported DOS logger. I am not sure if buying a MAC will help.
>
> The problem is the way that WINDOWS handles interrupts. It does not give a high enough priority to the serial bus to allow proper keying at anything but very slow speeds.
>
> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> K5EWJ
>
>
______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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David Gilbert

Re: K3: Configuring N1MM to send CW

My apologies to all ... this was supposed to be a direct reply. I
didn't mean to perpetuate the thread on the reflector. Sloppy
addressing on my part ....

73,
Dave AB7e

David Gilbert wrote:

> That simply isn't accurate. It might be true on a slow computer (or one
> bogged down with other junk) , since N1MM (the author) makes it very
> clear on his web site that he doesn't try to optimize the code for older
> machines, but I've run direct keying from N1MM in many contests over the
> last few years without ever a glitch. K7ZB and I ran a continuous 48
> hours as a multi/single entry in the CQWW CW contest last November,
> completed over 1500 contacts, and hit the F1 key countless thousands of
> times ... all without any issues. Keying speeds were typically 26 to 28
> WPM, but often faster.
>
> I know of several other active contesters who have had similar results
> without resorting to Winkey, although it is indeed a very nice piece of
> hardware.
>
> Dave AB7E
>
>
>
> WILLIS COOKE wrote:
>
>> This is a very well known problem. It has been documented by N1MM and many contest publications. It is not a problem with N1MM, it is a problem with WINDOWS. If you change to another version of N1MM or a different logging program, you will have the same trouble. The usual solution is to purchase and use a WinKeyer. Virtually all CW contesters
>> have done this. The other alternative is to revert to DOS and an old unsupported DOS logger. I am not sure if buying a MAC will help.
>>
>> The problem is the way that WINDOWS handles interrupts. It does not give a high enough priority to the serial bus to allow proper keying at anything but very slow speeds.
>>
>> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
>> K5EWJ
>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

K5WA

Re: K3: Configuring N1MM to send CW

In reply to this post by Barry Pfeil

I’ve got to agree with Randy. While I do use a microHAM MK2R (with WinKey inside) at my contest station for SO2R purposes, my home station setup is a simple Belkin USB/serial adapter between N1MM on an XP Pro box and one K3. I key the DTR/CTS lines in the serial connection of the K3 for CW/PTT and I plug my paddle into the paddle plug of the K3 for manual sending. N1MM sends great CW. I think the only issue is if you try and use the computer’s serial or parallel port (if one exists) to plug your paddle into. I forget which pins are needed for that, but it is the same for most contesting programs that allow it. The CW sounds bad with the paddle but fine with the machine sending due to issues previously mentioned. At least that is what I have observed. YMMV

>Sorry, but I've been using N1MM on Windows for several years now and

>have never seen this problem!

>Randy, KS4L

>>WILLIS COOKE wrote:

>> This is a very well known problem. It has been documented by N1MM and many contest publications. It is not a problem with N1MM, it is a problem with WINDOWS. If you change to another version of N1MM >>or a different logging program, you will have the same trouble. The usual solution is to purchase and use a WinKeyer. Virtually all CW contesters

Tim Heasman

Re: K3: Different Personalities?

In reply to this post by wrmoore

Hi All,

Whilst looking around the TenTec website I saw that they offer different
versions of the firmware for the Jupiter for different types of operator.
There are the standard radio and cw personalities available at the moment.

Since it is quite easy to load different firmware versions, the K3 firmware
could be changed for a particular types of contest etc. Perhaps there could
be several versions, say CW, Phone and Data personalities.

73

Tim

gm4lmh

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3: Different Personalities?

Tim,

I am not familiar with the Jupiter personalities, but with the K3
Utility, one can set up a menus, memories, band selections, and a host
of other things and then save that configuration.
One can have a configuration to one's own desires for CW contesting, SSB
contesting, etc. Another configuration for normal SSB operation,
another for CW ops and yet others for most any special set of modes and
conditions that a person can dream of.
As far as I can tell, there is no need for special firmware that makes
the K3 behave like the programmer thought it should be, each operator
can have his own set of conditions saved and it can be easily retrieved
by K3 Utility.

73,
Don W3FPR

Tim Heasman wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Whilst looking around the TenTec website I saw that they offer different
> versions of the firmware for the Jupiter for different types of operator.
> There are the standard radio and cw personalities available at the moment.
>
> Since it is quite easy to load different firmware versions, the K3 firmware
> could be changed for a particular types of contest etc. Perhaps there could
> be several versions, say CW, Phone and Data personalities.
>
> 73
>
> Tim
>
> gm4lmh
>
>