K3 DIY vs factory assembled: "If I get a bad part, will I be stuck?"

[DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL]

I have been posting a LOT of private messages since I don't think they
add much (anything) to general knowledge on the reflector.  But this
time, I think this has some merit for those who are still "thinking
about" a K3, factory-assembled versus DIY (kit).

So the recent question raised (not by me) as I see it boils to one of concern:

If I buy it assembled, it's "guaranteed to work" cuz it's been tested,
VERSUS, what I assemble it myself and it's not up to snuff?  Am I
stuck?

ABSOLUTELY NOT!  The attitude I have noted from Elecraft is that they
fully support all their radios, even when you assemble it.  In the
earlier days of the K3, there were "not uncommon" emails on the
reflector about trading / swapping boards and defective parts (the
rare times that they occur).  These ran the full range from missing
some hardware (all radios I have built or helped to build had a
surplus), the infamous "cracked knob" (none of mine), even "I got two
left panels or I can't find the fiber washers.

IMHO, you will NOT be hung out to dry if you assemble it
yourself...you will have TONS of support if you want any and
especially if you need any.

The crew at [hidden email] is amazing.  I even got a response
(well, several) on a holiday weekend when something didn't seem quite
right.  Did you read that...on a HOLIDAY WEEKEND!

Very cool, very comforting.

Go for it.

de Doug KR2Q
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[Gary Bartlett VE1RGB]

Doug:  

        Your argument is solid for citizens of the USA.  But life offshore
is different and the logistics support system from Aptos, while it cannot be
faulted, cannot do anything about the vagaries of postal and transportation
and customs and immigration systems which attract delay and cost, sometimes
of eye-watering magnitude, to those of us who live elsewhere.

        I think this thread originated from a ham in DL although I may be
wrong.  If so that may be one kind of situation when the additional cost of
Elecraft assembly provides the owner with confidence in the performance of
the K3 after it has gone through the pre-delivery burn-in and function
testing in Aptos.  That consideration for some folks may over-ride the valid
benefits from home-built for reasons that have nothing do with the technical
issues associated with K3 Kit assembly and cost savings but rather with the
ability to support the K3 is a timely fashion if/when goes wrong and
salvation resides in a different country.

        Just a thought.  The correct answer depends upon how the buyer wants
to handle risk mitigation.

        Gary, VE1RGB

       


       
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL
Sent: December 21, 2009 8:49 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 DIY vs factory assembled: "If I get a bad part, will
I be stuck?"

I have been posting a LOT of private messages since I don't think they
add much (anything) to general knowledge on the reflector.  But this
time, I think this has some merit for those who are still "thinking
about" a K3, factory-assembled versus DIY (kit).

So the recent question raised (not by me) as I see it boils to one of
concern:

If I buy it assembled, it's "guaranteed to work" cuz it's been tested,
VERSUS, what I assemble it myself and it's not up to snuff?  Am I
stuck?

ABSOLUTELY NOT!  The attitude I have noted from Elecraft is that they
fully support all their radios, even when you assemble it.  In the
earlier days of the K3, there were "not uncommon" emails on the
reflector about trading / swapping boards and defective parts (the
rare times that they occur).  These ran the full range from missing
some hardware (all radios I have built or helped to build had a
surplus), the infamous "cracked knob" (none of mine), even "I got two
left panels or I can't find the fiber washers.

IMHO, you will NOT be hung out to dry if you assemble it
yourself...you will have TONS of support if you want any and
especially if you need any.

The crew at [hidden email] is amazing.  I even got a response
(well, several) on a holiday weekend when something didn't seem quite
right.  Did you read that...on a HOLIDAY WEEKEND!

Very cool, very comforting.

Go for it.

de Doug KR2Q
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[M0XDF]

I considered that, for about 1 minute, when I bought my K3. My fellow  
club members with K2s said there wouldn't be a problem - there wasn't.  
I didn't have any missing parts so can't comment on delivery of those.  
But the K3 shipped via UPS and got here in 2 days (shipped 15-Dec and  
arrived 17th). I found the HexKey I had ordered had been missed out of  
the shipment, Elecraft very apologetic and it shipped and arrived  
within 5 days (considering that was Xmas post time, very good). A mod  
kit I ordered arrived within a few days via USPS (I have to say I'm  
more impressed with US postal service than I am the UKs).

I don't think you'd have to wait long for a missing part in mainland  
Europe. But I expect shippment to some distant rural area might be an  
issue. I would not have thought Canada would be?
73 de M0XDF, K3 #174
--
Math Anxiety: an intense lifelong fear of two trains approaching each  
other at speeds of 60 and 80 MPH. -Rick Bayan

On 22 Dec 2009, at 03:16, Gary, VE1RGB wrote:
> Your argument is solid for citizens of the USA.  But life offshore
> is different and the logistics support system from Aptos, while it  
> cannot be
> faulted, cannot do anything about the vagaries of postal and  
> transportation
> and customs and immigration systems which attract delay and cost,  
> sometimes
> of eye-watering magnitude, to those of us who live elsewhere.
> Gary, VE1RGB

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[w7aqk]

Gary, David, and All,

I did consider the location of the person who originated this thread (DL)
before posting my original response.  However, I assumed that he certainly
must have given that some thought before even considering a kit.  In any
event, as David says, it really doesn't take that long for parts to cross
the Atlantic based on most of the responses I have seen posted here by folks
in Europe.

As I understand it, Elecraft has procedures whereby they do check individual
boards before they ship them.  Am I wrong about that?  I thought I had seen
that fact stated by Elecraft personnel many times.  Assuming that's the
case, I would think that the odds of having a "fault" issue are pretty low.
Over time a few issues have arisen which required slight modifications.
Those, however, would not necessarily have been corrected on a factory built
unit before shipment until the fault had actually been identified.  So, my
further assumption is that a lot of factory built units are out there that
could "benefit" from a mod or two.  And these mods were usually improvements
rather than ones that made the difference between a working unit and a
non-working unit.  The DSP board is a good example of that.

I could only assume that the original inquirer was really asking whether it
was reasonable for him to expect to be able to self assemble a K3 with a
high expectation of success.  Most responses, including mine, indicated that
with reasonable "assembly" skills the answer should be yes.  I don't know
how to quantify a "reasonable expectation", but I'd guess somewhere in the
high 90's.

Another thing to consider is that, if a problem should arise, it's extremely
likely that Elecraft tech support can identify the issue without you having
to send the whole unit in.  You may only need to replace or change a single
part, and at worst you could just send the offending board back to them,
rather than the entire unit.  That's something Ten-Tec really "invented",
and Elecraft has adopted.  The modular construction of the K3 makes it very
much easier to swap out problem boards.  That's also another very good
reason for assembly of your own unit in the first place, since then you
presumably won't be so hesitant to make such a swap.

I think it is important to emphasize the quality of Elecraft tech support.
It doesn't come any better!  I've built all the Elecraft transceivers, and
there have been a few issues (often self inflicted) along the way.  With
rare exception, folks like Gary Surrency have been able to immediately
identify the issue, and resolution was nearly immediate.  Another fabulous
resource is Don Wilhelm, who responds typically to posted issues so fast it
makes your head swim!  With just about every other piece of equipment I own
(except, perhaps, for my one Ten-Tec transceiver), if a problem arises I am
almost certainly faced with the need to send the unit in for repair.  With
my K3, I am almost certainly NOT going to have to send it in, unless I
choose to do so.  I challenge everyone to identify a piece of gear they own
that has better technical support than their Elecraft rig.

One last point, and one that was made earlier.  I glazed  over the
differential in cost between a factory unit and a kit.  $200 was suggested,
and I didn't correct it, but it is much more than that, depending on how
many adds you make to the basic unit.  It will probably be closer to $400 or
more.  You can do a lot of corresponding and board swapping for that amount,
even from Europe!  Come to think of it, I bet the whole unit could be sent
back and forth from Europe for less than that, so why not build it yourself!
It sure sounds like a gamble worth taking, especially when the odds are so
much in your favor.

Dave W7AQK


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ferrington, M0XDF" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 DIY vs factory assembled: "If I get a bad
part,will I be stuck?"

>I considered that, for about 1 minute, when I bought my K3. My fellow
> club members with K2s said there wouldn't be a problem - there wasn't.
> I didn't have any missing parts so can't comment on delivery of those.
> But the K3 shipped via UPS and got here in 2 days (shipped 15-Dec and
> arrived 17th). I found the HexKey I had ordered had been missed out of
> the shipment, Elecraft very apologetic and it shipped and arrived
> within 5 days (considering that was Xmas post time, very good). A mod
> kit I ordered arrived within a few days via USPS (I have to say I'm
> more impressed with US postal service than I am the UKs).
>
> I don't think you'd have to wait long for a missing part in mainland
> Europe. But I expect shippment to some distant rural area might be an
> issue. I would not have thought Canada would be?
> 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174
> --
> Math Anxiety: an intense lifelong fear of two trains approaching each
> other at speeds of 60 and 80 MPH. -Rick Bayan
>
> On 22 Dec 2009, at 03:16, Gary, VE1RGB wrote:
>> Your argument is solid for citizens of the USA.  But life offshore
>> is different and the logistics support system from Aptos, while it
>> cannot be
>> faulted, cannot do anything about the vagaries of postal and
>> transportation
>> and customs and immigration systems which attract delay and cost,
>> sometimes
>> of eye-watering magnitude, to those of us who live elsewhere.
>> Gary, VE1RGB
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 

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[M0XDF]

73 de M0XDF, K3 #174
--  
Anyone can do any amount of work, provided it isn't the work he is  
supposed
to be doing at that moment. -Robert Benchley

On 22 Dec 2009, at 16:15, David Y. wrote:
> As I understand it, Elecraft has procedures whereby they do check  
> individual boards before they ship them.  Am I wrong about that?  I  
> thought I had seen that fact stated by Elecraft personnel many times.
you are not wrong, they do

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