K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx)
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K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx)
 
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Guys,
I just had the very fortunate (for me) experience of operating my K3 in a 4F category with some good operators. My CW station was My K3, and the other was an Orion 1. The 2 SSB stations were a Flex 6500 and a 6300. Due to space limitations, this is a very high RF environment. We used Dunestar filters, and as much antenna separation as we could, but It was what it was. The K3 and Orion absolutely crushed the Flex's. The Flex's got destroyed by in band interference from the CW guys, but we never heard them. I thought that was a bit odd. Anyhow, to be fair, I didn't get to switch to their antennas to see how different they would be. But I will say this... numerous times during FD, the computers on the Flex's locked up, usually forcing a reboot. That greatly upset the old school Operators. Meanwhile, the K3 performed like a rock star, and we racked up LOTS of CW QSOs on it... well over 1000. Just wanted to say that the K3 is very dear to me, and until the Flex's can be operated without a computer, there really isn't a comparison in Real world operation. I realize mileage may vary, but I was VERY impressed and proud of my K3 in this contest. Mine is one of the last one's pre K3S and does have the new synth. I love it dearly. I think our total score for the effort was over 9000 QSO points, about 2600 QSO's combined between all. Joe AB5OR ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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I don't think you can necessarily make that conclusion without further testing. If the K3/Orion transmitters had significantly more spurious tx products than the Flex transmitters, that could also explain why the Flex receivers seemed impaired compared to the K3/Orion. I'm not suggesting that was the case, but you need more data to reach a conclusion. 73, Barry N1EU |
Re: K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx)
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The Flex design is completely exposed to strong in band signals. That is a well known problem with both their original QSD and current DDC designs. Simply put, they can't handle ADC overflow. That will always be a problem for SDRs with wide front ends in high RF environments. The K3 and Orion transmitters have much less spurious (particularly transmitted phase noise from the K3) than most other transceivers while the Flex is one of the dirtiest according to ARRL Labs. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2015-07-01 7:49 AM, N1EU wrote: > joemoffatt wrote >> The K3 and Orion absolutely crushed the Flex's. The Flex's got destroyed >> by in band interference from the CW guys, but we never heard them. > > I don't think you can necessarily make that conclusion without further > testing. If the K3/Orion transmitters had significantly more spurious tx > products than the Flex transmitters, that could also explain why the Flex > receivers seemed impaired compared to the K3/Orion. I'm not suggesting that > was the case, but you need more data to reach a conclusion. > > 73, Barry N1EU > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-FD-report-in-high-RF-K3-vs-Flex-6xxx-tp7604461p7604491.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Now you've brought in other data to support the conclusion ;-) The Flex ops should have dialed in a little front-end attenuation to alleviate the ADC overload problem. The K3 and Orion do that automatically ("hardware AGC") to avoid ADC overload. Barry N1EU |
Re: K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx)
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In reply to this post by N1EU
Kinda what I thought. We are going to set up again like this to see what happens.
I've said it before, I am not a Flex basher. I have owned 2 of them and regularly operate 2 more. I like their company. I do prefer my setup more, but I admire what they bring to the table. Joe -------- Original message -------- From: N1EU <[hidden email]> Date: 2015/07/01 6:50 AM (GMT-06:00) To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx) joemoffatt wrote > The K3 and Orion absolutely crushed the Flex's. The Flex's got destroyed > by in band interference from the CW guys, but we never heard them. I don't think you can necessarily make that conclusion without further testing. If the K3/Orion transmitters had significantly more spurious tx products than the Flex transmitters, that could also explain why the Flex receivers seemed impaired compared to the K3/Orion. I'm not suggesting that was the case, but you need more data to reach a conclusion. 73, Barry N1EU -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-FD-report-in-high-RF-K3-vs-Flex-6xxx-tp7604461p7604491.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> ________________________________ Total Control Panel Login<https://asp.reflexion.net/login?domain=selectconnect.net> To: [hidden email]<https://asp.reflexion.net/address-properties?aID=750607761&domain=selectconnect.net> From: [hidden email]<https://asp.reflexion.net/address-properties?aID=11662279409&domain=selectconnect.net> Message Score: 1 High (60): Pass My Spam Blocking Level: Medium Medium (75): Pass Low (90): Pass Block<https://asp.reflexion.net/FooterAction?ver=2&bl-sender-address=1&rID=750607761&aID=11662279409&domain=selectconnect.net> this sender / Block<https://asp.reflexion.net/FooterAction?ver=2&ent=1&bl-sender-address=1&rID=750607761&aID=11662279409&domain=selectconnect.net> this sender enterprise-wide Block<https://asp.reflexion.net/FooterAction?ver=2&bl-sender-domain=1&rID=750607761&aID=11662279409&domain=selectconnect.net> mailman.qth.net / Block<https://asp.reflexion.net/FooterAction?ver=2&ent=1&bl-sender-domain=1&rID=750607761&aID=11662279409&domain=selectconnect.net> mailman.qth.net enterprise-wide This message was delivered because the content filter score did not exceed your filter level. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Please report back with what happens Joe. Unfortunately, the current implementation of SmartSDR (Flex 6K software) does not provide an ADC overload indication like PowerSDR does so you would just need to elicit the interference and see if attenuation alleviates the receiver blocking. Barry N1EU |
Re: K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx)
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
On Wed,7/1/2015 5:17 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> The K3 and Orion transmitters have much less spurious (particularly > transmitted phase noise from the K3) than most other transceivers while > the Flex is one of the dirtiest according to ARRL Labs. Yes, ARRL Labs tests are damning, though you would never realize it if you only read the text. When is ARRL going to assign technically competent authors to these reviews? That said, Flex did issue firmware/software that is said to reduce keying sidebands. I've been trying to coordinate with a local 6700 owner to test it here. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx)
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In reply to this post by N1EU
I will do that soon.
-------- Original message -------- From: N1EU <[hidden email]> Date: 2015/07/01 10:54 AM (GMT-06:00) To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx) joemoffatt wrote > Kinda what I thought. We are going to set up again like this to see what > happens. Please report back with what happens Joe. Unfortunately, the current implementation of SmartSDR (Flex 6K software) does not provide an ADC overload indication like PowerSDR does so you would just need to elicit the interference and see if attenuation alleviates the receiver blocking. Barry N1EU -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-FD-report-in-high-RF-K3-vs-Flex-6xxx-tp7604461p7604496.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> ________________________________ Total Control Panel Login<https://asp.reflexion.net/login?domain=selectconnect.net> To: [hidden email]<https://asp.reflexion.net/address-properties?aID=750607761&domain=selectconnect.net> From: [hidden email]<https://asp.reflexion.net/address-properties?aID=11662279409&domain=selectconnect.net> Message Score: 1 High (60): Pass My Spam Blocking Level: Medium Medium (75): Pass Low (90): Pass Block<https://asp.reflexion.net/FooterAction?ver=2&bl-sender-address=1&rID=750607761&aID=11662279409&domain=selectconnect.net> this sender / Block<https://asp.reflexion.net/FooterAction?ver=2&ent=1&bl-sender-address=1&rID=750607761&aID=11662279409&domain=selectconnect.net> this sender enterprise-wide Block<https://asp.reflexion.net/FooterAction?ver=2&bl-sender-domain=1&rID=750607761&aID=11662279409&domain=selectconnect.net> mailman.qth.net / Block<https://asp.reflexion.net/FooterAction?ver=2&ent=1&bl-sender-domain=1&rID=750607761&aID=11662279409&domain=selectconnect.net> mailman.qth.net enterprise-wide This message was delivered because the content filter score did not exceed your filter level. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx)
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In reply to this post by N1EU
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 8:34 AM, N1EU <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The Flex ops should have dialed in a little front-end attenuation to > alleviate the ADC overload problem. > Understand the sentiment, but more attenuation is operationally contra-indicated if the signals you're trying to work are weak due to temporary emergency antennas and QRP. Part of emergency preparedness is understanding various rigs non-prejudicially for their various strengths and weaknesses and choosing rigs for strengths and avoiding rigs for weakness as those apply to the specifics of an application. These days weak signals and close multiple transceivers call for the likes of K3's. At N4C field day we frequently had a CW station and SSB station on the same band with no interference, and actually without being aware of each other. No noise, no anything. I know what a K3's hardware AGC kick-in sounds like and that was also absent. This has been our experience for five or six field days now, and together with the small light size and portability, makes the K3 a top pick for FD. Not because of Koolaid, but because of proven suitability to the application. I'm waiting to hear about KX3's for FD, especially battery operation, long a specific niche for K2's. We did not have a K3S or K3 with KSYN3A for evaluation. We have a standing question of whether K3S/upgraded K3, with some horizontal separation, will be able to operate a few KHz away from each other on the same band/mode segment, e.g. the 40 CW station, and the GOTA station on 40 CW at the same time. Perhaps next year we will find out. N4C operated at the Grey Goose Farm near Creedmore, NC. The group was a large portion of the North Carolina East chapter of the Potomac Valley Radio Club. This group contains a significant supply of K3 owners, who regularly bring K3's to FD and multi-op contest events. For them portability and immunity to high RF environments are top-of-the-list reasons for purchasing K3's as opposed to other choices, easily serving FD style applications. At NY4A, also primarily manned by PVRC NC East members, going back pre-K3 the FT1000MP was the main rig, which had gradually replaced all the stalwart Japanese rigs of prior years. For some time the MP was the only rig seen there. When the K3's and other rigs with new generation RX came out, and the differences became known, The MP's were gradually replaced. A tally of the list of MP owning operators who had manned NY4A at some point indicated that 11 MP's had been replaced by 14 K3's and one Orion. Of that group, no one owns a Flex to this date. But neither would I consider any of them to be a "Flex-basher". I do know Flex owners, single home stations, who get outstanding performance away from high-RF multi-TX operations. Various problems with CW and spectral purity seem to be a continuing manufacturer's emphasis for solution. They're out there on a particular bleeding edge, with a particular emphasis, with its own set of problems. We'll just see what they do. Bashing not necessary. UPS currently has my 2015 K3 upgrade round: KXV3B, KSYN3A's, a second KBPF3 (A version) and finally a P3 and P3SVGA. I will get the new audio board when it's available. Regards All, Guy K2AV ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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I have a 6 Meter pre-amp for sale a PR6 for the Elecraft K3. $95.00 Shipped priority Mail Bruce N9BX 73 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx)
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
On 7/1/2015 12:06 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> Yes, ARRL Labs tests are damning, though you would never realize it if > you only read the text. When is ARRL going to assign technically > competent authors to these reviews? > Right after they stop taking advertising revenue from the reviewees (is that even a word ;) ) 73, Ross N4RP -- FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.” ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx)
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
A couple of years ago I asked W1RFI at Visalia how come they would
include a picture of a very sharp keying waveform and a spectrum display showing loud clicks or phase noise but not interpret it for the less technical types. He said that if you want that you should write to the editor of QST and tell him. So that is what we should do about these issues. 73, Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO Rehovot, Israel http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ On 1 Jul 2015 19:06, Jim Brown wrote: > On Wed,7/1/2015 5:17 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >> The K3 and Orion transmitters have much less spurious (particularly >> transmitted phase noise from the K3) than most other transceivers while >> the Flex is one of the dirtiest according to ARRL Labs. > > Yes, ARRL Labs tests are damning, though you would never realize it if > you only read the text. When is ARRL going to assign technically > competent authors to these reviews? > > That said, Flex did issue firmware/software that is said to reduce > keying sidebands. I've been trying to coordinate with a local 6700 owner > to test it here. > > 73, Jim K9YC Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx)
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
> That said, Flex did issue firmware/software that is said to reduce > keying sidebands. I've been trying to coordinate with a local 6700 > owner to test it here. While it may address the keying sidebands, it does not address the phase noise issues. Flex will never fix phase noise in the prior generation of hardware (e.g. -123 dBc in the Flex 5000, -120 dBc in the Flex 3000 per Sherwood). 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2015-07-01 12:06 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > On Wed,7/1/2015 5:17 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >> The K3 and Orion transmitters have much less spurious (particularly >> transmitted phase noise from the K3) than most other transceivers while >> the Flex is one of the dirtiest according to ARRL Labs. > > Yes, ARRL Labs tests are damning, though you would never realize it if > you only read the text. When is ARRL going to assign technically > competent authors to these reviews? > > That said, Flex did issue firmware/software that is said to reduce > keying sidebands. I've been trying to coordinate with a local 6700 owner > to test it here. > > 73, Jim K9YC > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx)
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In reply to this post by Ross Primrose
Jim hits a resonate cord. I do appreciate the League trying to keep costs
down but sometimes you get what you pay for. Years ago I wrote the author of a QST published construction article pointing out an error. He sent me his original schematic. QST had redrawn his schematic using multiple ground busses using the pitchfork ground symbol and thereby combining busses. I wrote the editor explaining these errors were doubly wrong since the EU bands the use of the pitchfork symbol for any use other than a safety ground (green wire terminals). I got a reply ignoring the fact the circuit was changed and stating they didn't follow European standards. In fact they made their own standards. How about adopting IEEE or some other standard electronic symbols? If they are going to make their own standards then, they should not be in contravention of existing standards. For instance QST frequently draws a differential amplifier as an op amp. Granted the same ICs can be used for either an op amp or a differential amplifier but use determines the proper symbol and rarely are op amps (analog computing) used in ham radio. Other inconsistences abound like using both square and triangles to represent a linear voltage regulator. Make up your mind and stick to it. Probably the most annoying abuse is the standard of drawing circuit flow from left to right. QST draws schematics so they best fit on the paper. Not for clarity. This makes understanding even more difficult but I do appreciate the effort to economize. 73, Fred, AE6QL -----Original Message----- From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ross Primrose Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2015 12:12 PM To: [hidden email]; [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx) On 7/1/2015 12:06 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > Yes, ARRL Labs tests are damning, though you would never realize it if > you only read the text. When is ARRL going to assign technically > competent authors to these reviews? > Right after they stop taking advertising revenue from the reviewees (is that even a word ;) ) 73, Ross N4RP ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx)
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Are there moderators here? We are getting a bit far afield of Elecraft topics. :)
Tom NY4I 727-437-2771 P.S. Drowning in email? I use SaneBox to instantly clean up my Inbox: http://sanebox.com/t/gdaz7 > On Jul 1, 2015, at 5:13 PM, Fred Townsend <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Jim hits a resonate cord. I do appreciate the League trying to keep costs > down but sometimes you get what you pay for. > > Years ago I wrote the author of a QST published construction article > pointing out an error. He sent me his original schematic. QST had redrawn > his schematic using multiple ground busses using the pitchfork ground symbol > and thereby combining busses. I wrote the editor explaining these errors > were doubly wrong since the EU bands the use of the pitchfork symbol for any > use other than a safety ground (green wire terminals). I got a reply > ignoring the fact the circuit was changed and stating they didn't follow > European standards. In fact they made their own standards. How about > adopting IEEE or some other standard electronic symbols? > > If they are going to make their own standards then, they should not be in > contravention of existing standards. For instance QST frequently draws a > differential amplifier as an op amp. Granted the same ICs can be used for > either an op amp or a differential amplifier but use determines the proper > symbol and rarely are op amps (analog computing) used in ham radio. Other > inconsistences abound like using both square and triangles to represent a > linear voltage regulator. Make up your mind and stick to it. > Probably the most annoying abuse is the standard of drawing circuit flow > from left to right. QST draws schematics so they best fit on the paper. Not > for clarity. This makes understanding even more difficult but I do > appreciate the effort to economize. > > 73, Fred, AE6QL > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ross > Primrose > Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2015 12:12 PM > To: [hidden email]; [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx) > > On 7/1/2015 12:06 PM, Jim Brown wrote: >> Yes, ARRL Labs tests are damning, though you would never realize it if >> you only read the text. When is ARRL going to assign technically >> competent authors to these reviews? >> > > Right after they stop taking advertising revenue from the reviewees (is that > even a word ;) ) > > 73, Ross N4RP > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx)
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
On Wed,7/1/2015 1:11 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> Flex will never fix phase noise in the prior > generation of hardware (e.g. -123 dBc in the Flex 5000, -120 dBc > in the Flex 3000 per Sherwood). Nor will Yaesu ever fix the clicks in their FT1000-series radios. :) 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Thomas Schaefer
Ditto. I am in danger of wearing out my delete key.
Thomas Schaefer wrote: > Are there moderators here? We are getting a bit far afield of Elecraft topics. :) > > Tom NY4I > > 727-437-2771 > > P.S. Drowning in email? I use SaneBox to instantly clean up my Inbox: http://sanebox.com/t/gdaz7 > > > > > >> On Jul 1, 2015, at 5:13 PM, Fred Townsend <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Jim hits a resonate cord. I do appreciate the League trying to keep costs >> down but sometimes you get what you pay for. >> >> Years ago I wrote the author of a QST published construction article >> pointing out an error. He sent me his original schematic. QST had redrawn >> his schematic using multiple ground busses using the pitchfork ground symbol >> and thereby combining busses. I wrote the editor explaining these errors >> were doubly wrong since the EU bands the use of the pitchfork symbol for any >> use other than a safety ground (green wire terminals). I got a reply >> ignoring the fact the circuit was changed and stating they didn't follow >> European standards. In fact they made their own standards. How about >> adopting IEEE or some other standard electronic symbols? >> >> If they are going to make their own standards then, they should not be in >> contravention of existing standards. For instance QST frequently draws a >> differential amplifier as an op amp. Granted the same ICs can be used for >> either an op amp or a differential amplifier but use determines the proper >> symbol and rarely are op amps (analog computing) used in ham radio. Other >> inconsistences abound like using both square and triangles to represent a >> linear voltage regulator. Make up your mind and stick to it. >> Probably the most annoying abuse is the standard of drawing circuit flow >> from left to right. QST draws schematics so they best fit on the paper. Not >> for clarity. This makes understanding even more difficult but I do >> appreciate the effort to economize. >> >> 73, Fred, AE6QL >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ross >> Primrose >> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2015 12:12 PM >> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx) >> >> On 7/1/2015 12:06 PM, Jim Brown wrote: >>> Yes, ARRL Labs tests are damning, though you would never realize it if >>> you only read the text. When is ARRL going to assign technically >>> competent authors to these reviews? >>> >> Right after they stop taking advertising revenue from the reviewees (is that >> even a word ;) ) >> >> 73, Ross N4RP >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: K3 FD report in high RF (K3 vs Flex 6xxx)
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In reply to this post by Fred Townsend-2
On Wed,7/1/2015 2:13 PM, Fred Townsend wrote:
> Years ago I wrote the author of a QST published construction article > pointing out an error. He sent me his original schematic. QST had redrawn > his schematic using multiple ground busses using the pitchfork ground symbol > and thereby combining busses. Their redrawing a perfect example of the muddy thinking about signal common (what we call "ground" in a circuit). In his EMC classes, guru Henry Ott, WA2IRQ, emphasizes the importance of knowing where the return current is flowing -- he talks about the hidden schematic concealed by the ground symbol. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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