K3 Filter NORM
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Hi,
Is there any way that I can make "Norm" normalise the DSP settings for the roofing filter in use (1.8/2.1), rather than it selecting the default 2.7/2.8KHz roofing filter and normalising the DSP around that? I think I would use Hi and Lo cut more for SSB contesting if there was a fast way of returning them to the default positions for the roofing filter in use. |
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See Page 24 in the users manual "Filter Normalization". Lets you set two custom Normals. 73 Doug N3QW ----- Original Message ----- From: "GM0ELP" <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 4:48:33 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Filter NORM Hi, Is there any way that I can make "Norm" normalise the DSP settings for the roofing filter in use (1.8/2.1), rather than it selecting the default 2.7/2.8KHz roofing filter and normalising the DSP around that? I think I would use Hi and Lo cut more for SSB contesting if there was a fast way of returning them to the default positions for the roofing filter in use. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Filter-NORM-tp1456939p1456939.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Hi Doug, I was unaware of the norm memory feature. I have the 2.1KHz RF option so I'll probably set up as follows: 1/2 sec push : 2.7Khz RF, 2.7KHz DSP 1/2 sec push rotate left: 2.1KHz RF, 2.1KHz DSP with 150Hz downwards shift. 1/2 sec push rotate right: 2.1KHz RF, 1.8KHz DSP with 150Hz downwards shift. Congrats to whoever thought out the ergonomics behind that feature. Now the final test of remembering how it all works in the heat of battle :-). Thanks! |
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In reply to this post by GM0ELP
The memories are a great feature, but I still think it could be augmented.
1) The last thing I expect to happen when normalising the DSP (1/2 sec press basic function of the Norm button) when using a 1.8/2.1KHz roofing filter, is for the radio to switch the roofing filter on me. There is an XFIL button for that if I need it. I think this function needs revised especially after norm memories became available. In firmware: instead of, Change to default roofing filter for that mode and normalise DSP around it. replace with, Determine current roofing filter in use and normalise DSP around it. This would allow you to quickly normalise any Hi/Lo cut DSP changes in SSB without the radio switching the roofing filter from 1.8/2.1 to 2.7/2.8 (not good for the ears during CQWW phone!). 2) When using the norm memories, I've noticed that if you memorise a 1KHz roofing filter and 700Hz DSP, then recall that memory, you get the 'wings' on the filter display associated with the passband being normalised when clearly it is not. I know these are normalisation memories and we have the presets I/II option, but the display is still misleading. Thanks for a great product. 73's Doug P.S> I should have said I'm using FW version 2.58 |
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Perhaps I've got the wrong end of the stick, and it's only for curiosity's
sake I mention this, but I did not think it was possible to independently set crystal filter and dsp bandwidth. As I alter the width control, filters kick in at the appropriate points, and if I use the XFIL button I just jump between the crystal filter widths and the dsp comes along for the ride. Have I missed something? Or maybe misunderstood what is being said... 73 Stephen G4SJP On 05/11/2008 09:49, "GM0ELP" <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > The memories are a great feature, but I still think it could be augmented. > > 1) The last thing I expect to happen when normalising (1/2 sec press basic > function of the Norm button) is for the radio to switch filters, there is an > XFIL button for that if I need it. I think this has a negative effect on the > user friendliness of the transceiver. > > In firmware: > instead of, > Change to default roofing filter for that mode and normalise DSP around it. > > replace with, > Determine current roofing filter in use and normalise DSP around it. > > 2) When using the norm memories, I've noticed that if you memorise a 1KHz > roofing filter and 700Hz DSP, then recall that memory, you get the 'wings' > on the filter display associated with the passband being normalised when > clearly it is not. > > > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Stephen Prior wrote: > Perhaps I've got the wrong end of the stick, and it's only for curiosity's > sake I mention this, but I did not think it was possible to independently > set crystal filter and dsp bandwidth. As I alter the width control, filters > kick in at the appropriate points, and if I use the XFIL button I just jump > between the crystal filter widths and the dsp comes along for the ride. > > Have I missed something? Or maybe misunderstood what is being said... The DSP width can be adjusted within the range of the currently selected filter, though. The issue is that the NORM function reverts back to the default filter for the current mode, rather than reverting the DSP to the normalised width for the currently selected filter. I find this unintuitive too. ~Iain > On 05/11/2008 09:49, "GM0ELP" <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> >> >> The memories are a great feature, but I still think it could be augmented. >> >> 1) The last thing I expect to happen when normalising (1/2 sec press basic >> function of the Norm button) is for the radio to switch filters, there is an >> XFIL button for that if I need it. I think this has a negative effect on the >> user friendliness of the transceiver. >> >> In firmware: >> instead of, >> Change to default roofing filter for that mode and normalise DSP around it. >> >> replace with, >> Determine current roofing filter in use and normalise DSP around it. >> >> 2) When using the norm memories, I've noticed that if you memorise a 1KHz >> roofing filter and 700Hz DSP, then recall that memory, you get the 'wings' >> on the filter display associated with the passband being normalised when >> clearly it is not. >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Ah, that's perfectly clear now, thanks Iain.
73 Stephen G4SJP On 06/11/2008 00:00, "Iain MacDonnell - K6IAM" <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > Stephen Prior wrote: >> Perhaps I've got the wrong end of the stick, and it's only for curiosity's >> sake I mention this, but I did not think it was possible to independently >> set crystal filter and dsp bandwidth. As I alter the width control, filters >> kick in at the appropriate points, and if I use the XFIL button I just jump >> between the crystal filter widths and the dsp comes along for the ride. >> >> Have I missed something? Or maybe misunderstood what is being said... > > The DSP width can be adjusted within the range of the currently selected > filter, though. The issue is that the NORM function reverts back to the > default filter for the current mode, rather than reverting the DSP to > the normalised width for the currently selected filter. I find this > unintuitive too. > > ~Iain > > > >> On 05/11/2008 09:49, "GM0ELP" <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> The memories are a great feature, but I still think it could be augmented. >>> >>> 1) The last thing I expect to happen when normalising (1/2 sec press basic >>> function of the Norm button) is for the radio to switch filters, there is an >>> XFIL button for that if I need it. I think this has a negative effect on the >>> user friendliness of the transceiver. >>> >>> In firmware: >>> instead of, >>> Change to default roofing filter for that mode and normalise DSP around it. >>> >>> replace with, >>> Determine current roofing filter in use and normalise DSP around it. >>> >>> 2) When using the norm memories, I've noticed that if you memorise a 1KHz >>> roofing filter and 700Hz DSP, then recall that memory, you get the 'wings' >>> on the filter display associated with the passband being normalised when >>> clearly it is not. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Post to: [hidden email] >> You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by GM0ELP
K6IAM wrote:
> The DSP width can be adjusted within the range of the currently selected > filter, though. The issue is that the NORM function reverts back to the > default filter for the current mode, rather than reverting the DSP to > the normalised width for the currently selected filter. I find this > unintuitive too. I believe the reason you find it unintuitive is that your mental model ("paradigm") for how the filters work is different from the designers'. Your model, as stated in your first sentence above, appears to be that you pick the hardware filter first, and then adjust the DSP filter to narrow down or shift bandpass from the basic crystal filter values. This is the model that best matches older non-DSP radios, where you choose the hardware filters first and PBT/VBT controls make relatively minor adjustments. In this mental model, "NORM" just means the normal DSP shift/bandwidth setting for the chosen hardware filter, as you have described. This in turn implies up to five different values of "NORM" for each mode, depending on how many hardware filters you have installed. Since there are also "NORM I/II" and "I/II" settings available, as well as the 5 basic settings obtained when the XFIL button is used, this would seem to imply a total of up to 30 different directly selectable filter settings per mode(!). However, the model underlying the description of the filter passband controls and presets in the owner's manual pp. 23-24 is that the DSP filter is primary, and once you select a DSP filter bandwidth, the hardware filter is chosen automatically to correspond. This model matches the way the controls actually work, e.g. if you increase the bandwidth setting beyond the current crystal bandwidth, the crystal filter changes without any other action on your part. This capability does not exist on pre-DSP radios, and your first sentence suggests that you are not aware of, or at least do not use, this capability. To say that "The DSP width can be adjusted within the range ..." is inaccurate - the DSP width can be adjusted beyond that range just as easily as within it. In this DSP-first model, "NORM" (or "NORM I/II" or "I/II") just means a pre-determined DSP filter setting, with the corresponding hardware filter determined directly by the DSP bandwidth. There are between 6 and 10 selectable settings per mode - five selectable by pressing the DSP filter controls, and from one to five basic (non-programmable) settings obtained using XFIL. Note that the XFIL button appears to use the opposite paradigm to the DSP filter controls, i.e. you use XFIL to choose a hardware filter and the DSP is adjusted to follow. However, there is another, perhaps less intuitive way to look at XFIL, and that is that it chooses among a predetermined group of DSP settings that exactly matches the available hardware filters. 73, Rich VE3KI K3 #1595 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Hi Rich, I don't use the XFIL button to normalise the DSP to the Roofing filter because it works on a cyclic basis, where up to 5 presses would be required (dependant on roofing filters installed) to achieve normalisation. Also, One of the presets (I or II) is active at all times and therefore holds whatever DSP adjustment you have just made and wish to normalise. This means you have the following possible keys to normalised DSP to roofing filter : 1) the second preset 2) 2 norm memories 3) norm To cut down confusion and for obvious reasons, I would like to use the control with the 'NORM' decal to normalise the DSP, so this leaves: 1) 2 norm memories 2) norm I am currently using the 2 norm memories for normalisation. I feel this solution is not optimum for such a frequently used feature, as selecting a norm memory is more complex than just selecting NORM, and you have to remember what you saved in both memories. 73 Doug |
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