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K3 Firmware updating

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Larry - K2GN

K3 Firmware updating

Is there a safe way to update a K3 through the microHAM router?

I don't like moving the cables for every update.

Something is going to wear out or break.

Difficult to do it with my 1 good hand .

Can I put a "Y" adaptor on the RS232 and run a USB to my laptop, and leave
the microHAM powered off?

Laptop isn't connected to the radios at all.

I just need an easier way to stay up to date.

Same with using the K3 EZ and K3 Util programs.

Any ideas are greatly appreciated.

de K2GN - Larry - http://k2gn.com <http://k2gn.com/>

K3 S/N - 3278 P3 S/N - ???? (Ordered)

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Don Butler

Re: K3 Firmware updating

It is NOT recommended

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry - K2GN" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft - K3" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 5:16 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Firmware updating

> Is there a safe way to update a K3 through the microHAM router?
>
> I don't like moving the cables for every update.
>
> Something is going to wear out or break.
>
> Difficult to do it with my 1 good hand .
>
> Can I put a "Y" adaptor on the RS232 and run a USB to my laptop, and leave
> the microHAM powered off?
>
> Laptop isn't connected to the radios at all.
>
> I just need an easier way to stay up to date.
>
> Same with using the K3 EZ and K3 Util programs.
>
>
>
> Any ideas are greatly appreciated.
>
> de K2GN - Larry - http://k2gn.com <http://k2gn.com/>
>
> K3 S/N - 3278 P3 S/N - ???? (Ordered)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 Firmware updating

In reply to this post by Larry - K2GN

> Can I put a "Y" adaptor on the RS232 and run a USB to my laptop, and
> leave the microHAM powered off?

No. The unpowered adapter (whether the microHAM device or the USB
converter) will "pull down" the data lines resulting in no data
between the K3 and the "powered" device.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 6/15/2010 7:16 PM, Larry - K2GN wrote:

> Is there a safe way to update a K3 through the microHAM router?
>
> I don't like moving the cables for every update.
>
> Something is going to wear out or break.
>
> Difficult to do it with my 1 good hand .
>
> Can I put a "Y" adaptor on the RS232 and run a USB to my laptop, and
> leave the microHAM powered off?
>
> Laptop isn't connected to the radios at all.
>
> I just need an easier way to stay up to date.
>
> Same with using the K3 EZ and K3 Util programs.
>
>
>
> Any ideas are greatly appreciated.
>
> de K2GN - Larry - http://k2gn.com<http://k2gn.com/>
>
> K3 S/N - 3278 P3 S/N - ???? (Ordered)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list Home:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
> mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Alan Bloom

Re: K3 Firmware updating

In reply to this post by Larry - K2GN

You might check on Ebay and see if you can pick up a couple of RS-232
switch boxes. They were quite common years ago so you might find some
used ones. That way you could bypass the microHAM whenever you want to
update firmware.

Al N1AL

On Tue, 2010-06-15 at 19:16 -0400, Larry - K2GN wrote:

Dick Dievendorff

Re: K3 Firmware updating

That's the technique I use here.

Something along these lines:

http://www.amazon.com/DB9-Female-Way-Switch-Box/dp/B000I9B2JG/ref=sr_1_fkmr0
_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1276648977&sr=8-1-fkmr0

Dick, K6KR

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Alan Bloom
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 5:17 PM
To: Larry - K2GN
Cc: Elecraft - K3
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Firmware updating

You might check on Ebay and see if you can pick up a couple of RS-232
switch boxes. They were quite common years ago so you might find some
used ones. That way you could bypass the microHAM whenever you want to
update firmware.

Al N1AL

On Tue, 2010-06-15 at 19:16 -0400, Larry - K2GN wrote:

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 Firmware updating

Or from MPJA -- http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=4700+SW

73,
Don W3FPR

Dick Dievendorff wrote:

> That's the technique I use here.
>
> Something along these lines:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/DB9-Female-Way-Switch-Box/dp/B000I9B2JG/ref=sr_1_fkmr0
> _1?ie=UTF8&qid=1276648977&sr=8-1-fkmr0
>
>
> Dick, K6KR
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Alan Bloom
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 5:17 PM
> To: Larry - K2GN
> Cc: Elecraft - K3
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Firmware updating
>
> You might check on Ebay and see if you can pick up a couple of RS-232
> switch boxes. They were quite common years ago so you might find some
> used ones. That way you could bypass the microHAM whenever you want to
> update firmware.
>
>
>

Larry - K2GN

Re: K3 Firmware updating

In reply to this post by Larry - K2GN

Well, thanks for all the replies to my message below.

The result is very mixed and discouraging. It appears that I'm in a dilemma.

I either stay at the level I'm at in the K3, get rid of the the K3 or the
microKEYER2R+ or

Run the risk of the firmware update not working.

I don't really want to get rid of anything, nor do I want to have a screw up
on the Firmware upgrades.

I got to figure out what to do.

Again, thanks for your input.

de K2GN - Larry - <http://k2gn.com/> http://k2gn.com

K3 S/N - 3278 P3 S/N - ???? (Ordered)

From: Larry - K2GN [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 7:16 PM
To: Elecraft - K3
Subject: K3 Firmware updating

Is there a safe way to update a K3 through the microHAM router?

I don't like moving the cables for every update.

Something is going to wear out or break.

Difficult to do it with my 1 good hand .

Can I put a "Y" adaptor on the RS232 and run a USB to my laptop, and leave
the microHAM powered off?

Laptop isn't connected to the radios at all.

I just need an easier way to stay up to date.

Same with using the K3 EZ and K3 Util programs.

Any ideas are greatly appreciated.

de K2GN - Larry - http://k2gn.com <http://k2gn.com/>

K3 S/N - 3278 P3 S/N - ???? (Ordered)

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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Larry - K2GN

Re: K3 Firmware updating

Joe:
Are you saying the there is a power requirement for the microHAM even when
it is turned off????
Or do you mean the RS232 control lines? If so, and the device gets powered
down, doesn't it's hold on the control lines go away???
de K2GN - Larry - http://k2gn.com
K3 S/N - 3278 P3 S/N - ???? (Ordered)

> Can I put a "Y" adaptor on the RS232 and run a USB to my laptop, and
> leave the microHAM powered off?

>>No. The unpowered adapter (whether the microHAM device or the USB
>>converter) will "pull down" the data lines resulting in no data
>>between the K3 and the "powered" device.

>>73,
>> ... Joe, W4TV

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 Firmware updating

> Or do you mean the RS232 control lines? If so, and the device
> gets powered down, doesn't it's hold on the control lines go
> away???

No, with no power applied to RS-232 devices - whether it be a
computer serial port, MK2R+, MKII, or the K3 the "unpowered"
lines will load the other lines so they will not work properly.
Without special circuits, it is not possible to connect two
drivers to a single RS-232 port at the same time.

The best solution is the two port RS-232 switch.

Note, updating with K3 is a special case since the K3 does not
require the use of handshake signals for updating. Other rigs
require handshake between their update software and the rig.
Since application controlled handshake is not supported AT ALL
by any microHAM interface, any upload capability is out of the
question for other rigs.

73,

... Joe Subich, W4TV
microHAM America, LLC.
http://www.microHAM-USA.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microHAM

On 6/16/2010 10:57 AM, Larry - K2GN wrote:

> Joe: Are you saying the there is a power requirement for the microHAM
> even when it is turned off???? Or do you mean the RS232 control
> lines? If so, and the device gets powered down, doesn't it's hold on
> the control lines go away??? de K2GN - Larry - http://k2gn.com K3 S/N
> - 3278 P3 S/N - ???? (Ordered)
>
>
>
>> Can I put a "Y" adaptor on the RS232 and run a USB to my laptop,
>> and leave the microHAM powered off?
>
>>> No. The unpowered adapter (whether the microHAM device or the
>>> USB converter) will "pull down" the data lines resulting in no
>>> data between the K3 and the "powered" device.
>
>>> 73, ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list Home:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
> mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 Firmware updating

In reply to this post by Larry - K2GN

Larry,

RS-232 cables cannot be simply daisy-chained or Y'ed.
Like normal logic lines, there can be only one driver on any one signal
line. Some logic families do allow 'wire-or' and 'wire-and'
connections with the proper selection of drivers, but that is a special
case.
The receivers are high impedance, and one can have several receivers on
the cable (that is what the SteppIR Y cables do - they only listen to
the communications on the line)

The drivers are the problem - along with the switching levels. The
levels must be maintained either below -3 volts or above +3 volts so the
receivers will not be detecting invalid data levels. If two drivers are
on a signal line, and one is trying to provide an ON level while the
other is trying to provide an OFF level, confusion will reign. Even if
one driver is powered off, it can still draw current from the line which
will interfere with the other driver. The RS-232 drivers are not like
tri-state devices which effectively disconnect from the line when
powered off.

So as a result, RS-232 is a point to point system only, and except for
special circumstances, that restriction must be followed.

73,
Don W3FPR

Larry - K2GN wrote:

> Joe:
> Are you saying the there is a power requirement for the microHAM even when
> it is turned off????
> Or do you mean the RS232 control lines? If so, and the device gets powered
> down, doesn't it's hold on the control lines go away???
> de K2GN - Larry - http://k2gn.com
> K3 S/N - 3278 P3 S/N - ???? (Ordered)
>
>
>
>
>> Can I put a "Y" adaptor on the RS232 and run a USB to my laptop, and
>>
> > leave the microHAM powered off?
>
>
>